The official "Theta" thread - Page 162

I think what's happening here is that since the higher than 96-24 feature of the HDMI board has been unlocked by the firmware upgrade, that the HDMI board is working at up to 192-24. As for the rest, and whether the new updated DSP processing chip/board will be necessary for the internal CB3 HD DACs
(if Extreme DACs or others that work with the higher resolutions) to process at 96-24 or even up to 192-24, we will need clarification from Theta.

I really haven't done critical listening.

Impression - heck, using the wireless network sounds real nice - but I don't think quite as dynamic
and outstanding as using the Bryston Media Player. That sort of makes sense, since the Bryston has NO moving parts compared to the Compli Blu 3D disc spinner! But solely using the Compli Blu 3D still sounds quite nice. But this quick impression is based on memory, quick listening, and frankly preconceived notions perhaps.
Edited by Steve Bruzonsky - 2/20/13 at 9:44pm

I now have some hi rez files including 192-24 stereo FLAC on a Western Digital self-powered 500 GB external USB drive. This drive into the USB input on the back of the Compli Blu 3D works fine, and I've played some 192-24 Aretha Franklin and plays and sounds fine with "192.0" showing on the CB3 HD LCD display!

Oh Lord, how do you do this with a proper computer aka a Mac? Don't unzip the zip file? Mac's do that as a matter of course. Do I have to borrow a computer to upgrade my CB III HD firmware?

Presumably SACD output over HDMI from the Compli is still capped by the Oppo main board at 88.2kHz?

And coax S/PDIF and AES/EBU input to the CB still capped at 96kHz? EDIT: just re-read post 4825

Left speaker "click" gone?
Edited by stevekale - 2/21/13 at 3:58am

Sorry, I've used a Windows laptop to do the upgrade.

You've gort a MAC.Get the windows software for the Mac, and boot it up in Windows. If you can't figure out how to stop the Mac from automatically unzipping those files, then this fix should work.

Correctt re the above- I haven't listened enough to tell you re the speaker click at this time.

So now let's hope that the next good news from Theta is that they have an app that fully control the Compli Blu 3D as a media render. Soon they/Jeff should explain this Creston module + iPad app. I see that Oppo has the option to download SW for Creston, but I still do not know if I need to purchase some hardware. Roomie also support Oppo 95.
The Oppo remote controll app works fine for the Theta Compli Blu

The best would be if Theta / Oppo implemented Direc IP control. That's the way the world are going.
The option is to do this via RS232 to IP converter, but I do not if the RS232 still gives give enough feedback equal to what is shown of a screen.
Edited by ANRE - 2/21/13 at 3:06pm

The Crestron module is simply a crestron software set designed for crestron programmers so the IR and RS232 codes for instance for a device are available and easy for the programmer.

For some reason Jeff's Crestron Module post has people thinking its some hardware solution.

Its just a driver set for programmers that contains Strings of Codes and things pertaining to setting up a Crestron screen to control a Cb3HD.

This can be easily done with Any remote like Procontrol.com which we love and we have Casablanca 's being controlled by that an RTi and many others as well with some simple RS232 strings or simple IR as well.

Thanks
Craig

I thought Oppo had some open control over their player ? I am not sure but dont they have some software control for Oppo and maybe control for the media center side of it ?

Craig

Craig,
I hace a Crestron system with a Oppo 95 Blu Ray player in my system.
If I swap out the Oppo with the Theta, do I have to reprogram my Crestron?
This is a big deal for me as I do not want to bring in a programmer to reprogram my Crestron programming (lot of things happening in the room with the Crestron program)... especially because the 95 is working just fine and the Compli will not do much more for me as I am using a Transporter with ripped Flac on my NAS to listen to music.
BTW - How is the compli based on the oppo 95 better than the 95??
Thanks in advance.
Ash

Well, if so, can you then explain how the integration with the iPad app is expected.

On Thetas official web it says for the CB3HD:
"The Casablanca IIIHD can be easily controlled by its front panel buttons, or via standard IR remote control, or, for the ultimate in system control, by its powerful RS-232 protocol which interfaces with complete home automation systems from companies such as Crestron.

But for the Compli Blu 3D it says:
Control is available from the front panel, the supplied IR remote control or via RS-232.
To me this is to be understood that RS232 control is available to anyone that have the capability to befit of this interface on all Thetas products, but that there will be an iPad app available specific related to the Compli Blu 3D together with the Crestron module. (Module = SW)

But how can I use this iPad app if I do not have Crestron HW ? And what kind of HW ? Or is the intention to install the Creston SW direct to the Compli ? (Not likely).

And as requested several times now, what will actually be controlled by this app, that not is already possible by the Oppo app?
Please investigate.
Maybe the Thetas website is wrong and for once it tells more than will possible

Will you be able to fully control the DNLA / UPNP via your suggested procontrol ? What HW is needed ?

Hi Ash

Would you be kind enough to take the time and explain how the Crestron system works with the Oppo. ?
What kind of HW from Crestron do you need ? Do you set it up your self ?
Are you using an iDevice ?

Steve

Have you tested if the new firmware implement HDAVI Control to the Compli ?
You must activate CEC on the Compli Blu 3D.

What should happen is that when you select the Compli on the CB3HD, the Compli should power on.

If not, have you any knowledge if this is on the to do list at Theta ?

Update:
I've just updated SW on my CB3HD, and was able to test myself.
The CEC does not work.
Edited by ANRE - 2/21/13 at 6:38pm

I did the update tonight to 430. Interestingly, I was at version 413, which was not a version mentioned on Theta's website (only mentions 414 and 416). Regardless, the update went through with no problem. I have not had an opportunity to critically listen to see if there is any improvement. All I can say is that the update was quick, easy, and my machine works fine after the update. I confirmed with one Blu Ray that it was receiving a 192Khz Dolby TrueHD signal using the status button on the remote. I do wonder what SPDIF issues they were having that were fixed.

I copied a bunch of 192-24 and 176-24 uncompressed FLAC files from my 3 TB Seagate GoFlex USB drive (used for my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player) to a 500 GB Western Digital Passport USB drive, and I connected the Passport USB Drive to the USB input on back of the Theta Compli Blu 3D. I can't say that it really sounds any better playing music this way whether over the network vs the hard-connected Passport USB Drive.

I luv the Compli Blu 3D as a blu ray player/transport! Wonderful picture and sound!! No question. If one uses it as a music disc transport, it also excels,and on redbook is close to but not quite the sonics of my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player. Of course, the Bryston will also handle 88-24, 96-24, 176-24 and 192-24 audio files, and I have a lot of them. And when the Bryston is matched with the proper audio gear that will play without downsampling the higher audio resolution files, WOW!!!

But how does the Compli Blu 3D sound via USB on music compared to the Compli Blu 3D as a disc spinner? Or compared to my trusty loving Bryston BDP-1?

After just playing fifteen minutes of various 192-24 and 176-24 FLAC uncompressed files over USB into the Compli Blu 3D, into the CB3 HD, I am - not impressed. Not with my system!

First, the Compli Blu 3D as a disc spinner on redbook CD alone sounds appreciably better to me than 192-24 and 176-24 uncompressed FLAC via USB of the Compli Blu 3D. The Compli Blu 3D is an outstanding redbook (and HDCD) disc transport. Even if its a tad below my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player.

Of course, the Compli Blu 3D sounds even better playing DVD-Audio discs. But on SACD, the player's downrezzing to 88-24 and conversion from DSD to PCM just doesn't sound all that great, clearly missing on highs and just sounding somewhat flat. Now if you don't have a really terrific audio front end you may never even hear what I hear. That's life!

My understanding is that the current CB3 HD DSP operates at 48K, so even though HDMI or other input may intake a higher audio sample rate, its processed at 48K, even if perhaps it may be upsampled to a higher rate when output from the digital out card. When I play higher res audio files, I can typically hear the difference between routing the audio through the CB3 HD, vs a direct connection to my Gen VIII series 3 DAC. Don't get me wrong. Routing hi rez audio from the Bryston BDP-1 sounds great and I can listen on and on via the CB3 HD and then out to the Gen VIII DAC. But it even sounds better direct from the Bryston to the Gen VIII DACs.
Edited by Steve Bruzonsky - 2/21/13 at 10:02pm

What I am getting to is that routing hi rez audio through the CB3 HD, then to the Gen VIII DAC, still sounds much better than a USB drive connected to the Compli Blu 3D with HDMI out to the CB3 HD. And then you can multiply that with good higher rez audio from the Bryston BDP-1 connected direct to my Gen VIII DAC.

In all fairness, the Compli Blu 3D's USB input and HDMI sonic output of up to 192-24 is simply a feature which Oppo included in the base Oppo 95 blu ray player which Theta modded. The Oppo 95 wasn't designed primarily as a top end hard drive connected music player, and from my sonic observations Theta
didn't put any extra effort into the USB part of the player that wasn't already there.

Keep in mind that a lot of typical good home theater systems don't necessarily have the audiophile sonics coupled with a great room sonically to necessarily hear what I am hearing. My room was built to #3 dimensions on Louden scale for best sonics. Michael Green pressure zone controllers for acoustics.
Theta Citadel 1.5s front left and right monoblocks (Theta Enterprise monoblocks front center and surrounds.) Four Aerial 9s and a CC5 center, and three Aerial SW12 subs. And a Gen VIII Series 3 DAC for front left and right channels. My system is quite resolving.

I am looking forward to the upcoming Theta CB3 HD PR3 DSP upgrade coming hopefully in the next six months or so. Where the CB3 HD will run at 192-24,not 48K! When I get this, I will then probably not use a direct connect from the Bryston to the Gen VIII,and I expect to use only the Bryston to CB3 HD connection, with the CB3 HD then digital out to the Gen VIII, because with this DSP upgrade to the CB3 HD, I will get full up to 192-24 from music sources
(non blu ray) from my Bryston. And using the CB3 HD's DTS Neo 6 mode, my center - rear - and sub may be added to the mix at the full res up to 192-24 of the front left and right channels!!

I was discussing this with Craig/VGI today, and Craig verified that with the upcoming PRC DSP upgrade for the CB3 HD, the DSP will process incoming audio up to 192-24 at its native rate, whether the input is HDMI or coaxial/bnc/balanced digital. I will be in heaven - actually, I already am, but I will get to then move to an even higher plane of heaven sonically! Thank you Morris Kessler and ATI/Theta, and Craig/VGI for keeping me at the top of the Theta loop!

Oppo did a good job with the unit and of course Theta have added a nice LPSU (and a much prettier case). BTW Paul Hynes is also now looking into linear power supplies for the 93/103 - should be very interesting.

And Bryston could have made the BDP-1 even better. The Juli@ XTe PCI express soundcard is already better than the PCI version used by Bryston and either card can be upgraded relatively easily with better regulators and to take power directly from a linear rail rather than off the mobo. Adding a SOtM noise filter in front of an SSD in the BDP-2 would also help a lot.

So, if I install one of those Juli@ xte pcie sound cards into my pc for under £250 I can get somewhere close to the sq of the bdp1?

It is no big secret that one can piece together a PC or Mac based music server using standard components that sounds better than a BPD-1 (and other turn-key servers), and typically save some money (although you can easily run up a >2,000 BOM with a DIY project as well).

However, dedicated servers are very affordable and will save you a lot of integration ans stability headaches. My completely stipped down bare bones, PC based server still crashes.

No. But building something like a BDP-1 is not a challenging exercise. I'm building one at the moment for a bit of fun. The hardest stuff is power supply if you want to run multiple rails (I am going to use modules from Paul Hynes), nice enclosure (so far the most expensive part) and, for me at least, having to learn a bit more about Windows (or even Linux) which I detest. (Upgrading the Juli@ card is not something you would not do yourself unless you were suitably skilled but it's easy to have it done. Fitting it without the upgrade couldn't be easier.)

Bryston have done a great job building their own version (although they're a johnnie-come-lately in this regard) given Steve's high praise. I'm merely commenting that they could easily have taken it a couple of further steps forward. (There are others out there, including the Auraliti and Aurender, that do.)

I'd really like to see Theta produce one that really pushes the limits of what's possible.

Same here

Oh don't get me wrong ill be getting another media player / streamer. I loved the linn ds. Just want to improve my pc sound for now whilst I buy some more important additions to my av room.

Ash i am almost positive that the RS232 codes will be the same..

The Compli blu actually shares the same codes as the compli 3d so hopefully Oppo didnt play to many games.

The Compli 3D is a work of art. Its truly designed and engineered in Southern Calif. and has many many changes to the overall construction and mechanics of a Oppo unit. The multiple analog power supplies coupled with an amazing chassis design makes this sound and operate alot nicer than an Oppo. The fact that they get rid of the switching power supply and add a series of large torroids is for starters but the analog circuit removal and everything else just makes it work great.

People that are using them are very happy and the results we are seeing are amazing.

I think you would really enjoy this.

Thanks
Craig

Your welcome Steve

Your support and loyalty to this brand is what makes Theta and Theatermax who they are today.

We will continue to deliver amazing best in class products as long as you keep buying them

We love ya

Thanks
Craig

Except for the year and a half that I was using an Integra SSP to decode blu ray to my then CB3!!@@
HA!

Loyalty and support only goes as far as worthwhile products. Theta delivered for years, sat for a few, and in the past two years has really started delivering again!!@@ Onward to a Theta Digital Excaliber
Media Player (Excaliber is I believe one of the Star Trek Ships from the comic books, as Theta luvs using Star Trek names.)

Theta has so far delivered on all the products i suggested in past years - CB3 with HDMI for blu ray, etc,
blu ray transport HDMI, DAC handling 192-24 Gen VIII).

Next how about a media player?

Also, how about an upgrade to the Gen VIII so it handles native DSD files? For that matter, not a bad idea for the CB3 HD upcoming new DACs if at all possible! HAAA! (I don't know if there are enough of us audiophiles interested in native DSD for music to make it worthwhile for Theta economically. But if they could do it without costing too much it would be nifty!

Well Oppo is supposed to be working on IP control for the new BDP-10x series players.

I think they need a well-isolated USB solution first. And I would change "media" to audio as the Compli fills the gap for video (including ripped video).

The question is what sort of specs would we expect on the audio server. Here's a start:

- high quality S/PDIF and AES/EBU out. The Juli@ card is nice in that one can separate the analogue portion from the card and toss it, leaving a pure digital sound card that isn't polluted by any unnecessary analogue components but is only 2-channel
- the sound card should be powered separately from the motherboard
- high quality USB out. Not from the mobo USB. The card of the day for the CAPs builders is made by SOtM but I'm sure Theta could build something better. (Again, powered independently of the mobo.) I understand that achieving galvanic isolation is a challenge with USB - this part of things would need to be at the CB end of things in order not to tie users to a Theta source device
- proprietary iS2 link from audio server to USB card on CB III
- high quality mobo with appropriate connectivity (USB ports, HDMI, ethernet etc)
- fast but low THD processor
- OXCO clock upgrades on the mobo and other upgrades to take it to "audiophile" quality. May be overkill given the separate S/PIDF/AES-EBU and USB cards but this is being done by the competition and would presumably aid multi-channel audio via the mobo HDMI port
- of course, a high quality LPSU with independent rails for mobo, audio cards and SATA drives
- easily replaceable SSD (or better yet, leave this to the purchaser to scale to their own needs)
- noise filter for SSD
- high grade enclosure with passive cooling for the processor

What else?