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The official "Theta" thread - Page 188

post #5611 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post

I'm becoming less excited about these announcements. The music industry is all over the place regarding fidelity and haven't got their act together. At one time I'd be jumping for joy about this announcement, now I'm skeptical....

Sad but true. I don't know if we ever see another golden age of high quality music recording again, what with Ipod and Pandora dominating the scene.

I take solace in the fact that while a majority of mainstream CD's have such sh**ty quality, , movie sound seem to be hitting a pinnacle and is the best that we have ever experienced. Listen to these Blu-ray discs, I can't help but think of the stunning quality and that there must be an audiophile behind that mixing console. The famous Super 8 BD has all the qualities that I could ever hope for: warm, full bodied, drop dead soundstage. None of the stridency and harshness so prevalent in music releases.

Just look at the opposite directions that music and movies are going: music is going down the Pandora/Ipod drain, while movies are moving towards ever more resolution and innovation.
Edited by cannga - 10/9/13 at 11:22am
post #5612 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

Sad but true. I don't know if we ever see another golden age of high quality music recording again, what with Ipod and Pandora dominating the scene.

I take solace in the fact that while a majority of mainstream CD's have such sh**ty quality, , movie sound seem to be hitting a pinnacle and is the best that we have ever experienced. Listen to these DTS Blu-ray discs, I can't help but think of the stunning quality and that there must be an audiophile behind that mixing console. The famous Super 8 BD has all the qualities that I could ever hope for: warm, full bodied, drop dead soundstage. None of the stridency and harshness so prevalent in music releases.

Just look at the opposite directions that music and movies are going: music is going down the Pandora/Ipod drain, while movies are moving towards ever more resolution and innovation.

May be true for mainstream music, but labels like ECM keep cranking out phenomenally recorded stuff in 44/16.
post #5613 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Most of the time, using Neo:X as surround processing will sound fine. In fact, going from a ring of sound around you to more of a 3D bubble of sound (using height speakers) will likely be preferable to most listeners. But once in a while, you might get something up there that could distract you. No surround processing is perfect.

By comparison, using Neo:X as a decoder means that the only sounds being sent to the height speakers are ones intended by the mixer. The downside is that you need Neo:X encoded material for that. As of now, there are only 3 Blu-ray titles with Neo:X encoded heights and wides.

If you currently use PLIIx to scale 5.1-channel soundtracks to your 7.1-speaker layout, then you're already using surround processing to "convert" 2 surround channels to 4 outputs. Does it sound objectionable? Does it feel like the surround information is coming from the wrong direction? If not, then you won't hear problems when using PLIIz or Neo:X to extract height outputs.

Sanjay, thanks for pointing out the (underlined) distinctions between processing and decoding encoded materials; very interesting.

As for encoded 3D material, are the different technologies compatible; in other words, could an Atmos encoded movies be converted to a DTS encoded disc?

Yes, I believe base on your rec, I converted from 5.1 to 7.1 and have not looked back. Even as this conversion forces me to use a different brand of speaker, B&W in-ceiling as opposed to my Thiel, I like the improvement (much more enveloping obviously, and in some scenes, front soundstage are "pulled" off the front towards middle of room, expanding in depth).

For anyone interested in converting to 7.1: I've listened to the rear and side channels by themselves with main channels off to hear what "type" of sound come out of these speakers, and found that there is really not much distinct sound, just a lot of echoey jibberish stuff :-). While timbre matched is better, I do think you could cheat a little on the surrounds and even if you have to use a different in-ceiling speaker like B&W, I think it's worth it.
post #5614 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post


What series Gen 8 are you using? I don't think the series 3 has a "fixed" setting, at least if it does I haven't found out how to select it. As best as I can figure, the series 3 is configured to output a fixed volume by selecting unity gain for the selected input. The selected input can be any of the Gen 8 inputs either digital or analog.
I use a series 3 which only has one firmware version. The manual of the Gen 8 series 2 mentions Unity gain as does the series 3. The current feature is called "fixed" in my series 3. There is only one firmware version so I don't think it is a matter of the age of the Gen VIII. It is mostly likely a error in the owner's manual to say Unity Gain when it's been changed to Fixed. There are quite a few errors in the owner's manuals as the products are upgraded. Is your Gen VIII series 3 a newer model? I don't know. It could be because my model is upgraded though if there is only one firmware version, I don't understand how the selections would be different if both units use the same firmware. Typically when this is the case, Theta will show different firmware versions. I will ask John.
Edited by Bulldogger - 10/9/13 at 6:12pm
post #5615 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

In my experience, it all boils down to the quality of the preamp. There is no question that inserting a pair of cables and an active circuit in the signal path takes away some transparency. However, you do get something back (dynamics, timbre etc.). In my experience It takes a very good preamp for the benefits to outweigh the cost (I mean sonically, not financially). Anything solid state under $10K did not do the trick for me. At best it was equivalent. The Ref5 SE was quite a revelation, but not cheap, especially if you throw in a good PC and IC.
There is no substitute for first hand experience. You did not try that many preamps. You tried very well reviewed ones but only a few. You did not have a large enough sample to really make any good generalizations. It also a matter of personal preferences. As much as I like Audio Research, a friend hates them. To your credit, you did not stop until you investigated both methods completely. There is a correlation between cost, but it is not an absolute correlation. Having used the PS Audio dac without a preamp and the Gen VIII first hand, I knew that the Gen VIII is much superior as a volume control and that gives it a significant advantage when used stand alone. If you ever try one, you will get what I was saying all along. It is on the other side of the line where the benefits of a preamp out-weight the advantages of connecting the source directly to the amps. It clearly is. That's the huge flaw when others looks at the shoot outs of the various dacs. You have to consider that a preamp was used. I would love to do a shoot out with Berkeley Alpha and Gen VIII with no external preamp. I'd be almost certain the Gen VIII would win. Use a good preamp almost certainly one that cost above 10k, and the advantage of the Gen VIII likely will disappears but you have to factor the cost of the preamp into the equation. Without acknowledging that, you attacked the Gen VIII as being overpriced basically. I believe you will discover that as well, as a false assumption if you ever get first hand experience with one. I think you realize that I like yourself am a "bargain hunter." The Gen VIII is the only product I own that I kind of regret not buying new. I like it that much. For a bargain hunter like myself, that's a significant statement. It's like getting a 10k preamp and dac for the asking price. In the end, you did well. I don't think there is a need for you to want to switch, with the equipment that you ultimately selected. There are many great products and the Gen VIII is just one.
Edited by Bulldogger - 10/9/13 at 9:38pm
post #5616 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

96kHz. Some 192kHz. I'm all for more content being available in high-res. Hopefully this is thawing.

You also get a FLAC version though not clear what resolution.

I'm looking forward to listening to 96kHz material on my CB XX.

http://store.universal-music.co.uk/restofworld/pure-audio/pure-audio/icat/pureaudio-pureaudio
Interesting! Steve I have a question for you and you are likely the only one that can answer. Theta owners with Compli Blu players have always had linear power supplies so don't have a frame of reference as to how much changing the power supply matters. Over HDMI, how much of an improvement did you realize with your Casablanca after you added the linear supply to your Oppo? I am asking because I wonder how much of effect this will have on a music server as well. You may have mention the improvements before but I would appreciate any further elaborations.
post #5617 of 6796
Hi all! I have been on the search for a pre/pro for a theater I will be building soon. My search has led me to (and past) Anthem, Krell, and Datasat...and then I stumbled onto Theta Digital. The modular nature of the Theta Casablanca make it different from other pre/pros that reach obselesence winth each new trade show. I'm coming from a theater powered by a series of Integra (80.2 & 80.3) and Marantz (8801) processors, all of which have been sold. I'm currently ready to dive into true high end, but the Theta pricing structure is a bit confusing. Does anyone know what (functionally) I get with the base Casablanca IV model? I want to hold off on the HDMI card as I'm sure a HDMI 2.0 card will be released shortly. Also, does anyone know when the IV will be available?
post #5618 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I ask those who do know. However, as edorr say, even then there is not agreement. A lot of stuff is proprietary so you may not get all of the technical details. I try not to speculate. I always ask someone who does know but again there is often not consensus. I've contacted many every well regarded engineer who will answer my questions. Some don't post on forum because of all of the fighting. I'm smart enough to know what I do not know.

Been an audiophile since about the age 10 when I got my first set-up from my father, now 47. Set up and measured oh about 20 to 25 rooms between myself, co-workers and audio buddies. Equalized rooms, built room traps and all sorts of room treatments. I have also discussed the construction of many of these products with the engineers who design them. I have read many books, most of the popular ones on acoustics. None of this matters. Even the guys who actually designed this stuff are discredited. It's the nature of these types of forums. There is nothing anyone can or no degree that one can hold that would put them beyond reproach on the internet.

Thanks to you and edorr for the reply to my question. Wasn't meant as an insult to anyone in any way, but I read a lot of head scratching comments here that could be answered easily with more experience and, possibly, a few classes in electronics and acoustics thrown in for good measure.

One example that leaps to mind is Steve B's experience with subs in his dedicated listening/theater room. I believe he said that the bass is far superior in two channel mode and he gives the credit to the GenVIII doing the processing/volume control and not the CB3. That may be part of it, but I doubt it's the whole story.

I know many here are die-hard Theta fans (such as myself), but also there appears to be a huge disparity of experience to knowledge.

A great blog to read is "Paul's Posts" over at PStracks. The discussion there is particularly mesmerizing at times. For example, read the following thread and see if it doesn't inspire you to want to learn more about this fascinating field: http://www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/listening-ears-shut/11874/
post #5619 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

Thanks to you and edorr for the reply to my question. Wasn't meant as an insult to anyone in any way, but I read a lot of head scratching comments here that could be answered easily with more experience and, possibly, a few classes in electronics and acoustics thrown in for good measure.

One example that leaps to mind is Steve B's experience with subs in his dedicated listening/theater room. I believe he said that the bass is far superior in two channel mode and he gives the credit to the GenVIII doing the processing/volume control and not the CB3. That may be part of it, but I doubt it's the whole story.

I know many here are die-hard Theta fans (such as myself), but also there appears to be a huge disparity of experience to knowledge.

/
While what you think may seem logical, it is not accurate. The Gen VIII does in fact produce much superior bass to the Casablanca.That is one of it's strong points. Any user would quickly realize it. I think the ones having trouble fathoming what he is saying are those without first hand experience with the Gen VIII. How do you define superiority of bass? Sheer output? Perhaps, that's not what he means. I realize that many do not allow that such things as pitch definition are actual bass qualities. There does not currently seem to be a way to quantify, "one note bass" or faster bass. We hear it but, because it can not be quantified, it must not exist. That seems to be the current, "text book," position. Personally, what I believe many need is more time listening to live music than electronics classes. When that happens, the way live music that has not been amplified sounds quickly reveals what electronics actually come closer to recreating the actual event.

I notice also that you only have 29 post and of that number, several are directed at Steve. Who are you really?
Edited by Bulldogger - 10/9/13 at 9:59pm
post #5620 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

While what you think may seem logical, it is not accurate. The Gen VIII does in fact produce much superior bass to the Casablanca.That is one of it's strong points. Any user would quickly realize it. I think the ones having trouble fathoming what he is saying are those without first hand experience with the Gen VIII. How do you define superiority of bass? Sheer output? Perhaps, that's not what he means. I realize that many do not allow that such things as pitch definition are actual bass qualities. There does not currently seem to be a way to quantify, "one note bass" or faster bass. We hear it but, because it can not be quantified, it must not exist. That seems to be the current, "text book," position. Personally, what I believe many need is more time listening to live music than electronics classes. When that happens, the way live music that has not been amplified sounds quickly reveals what electronics actually come closer to recreating the actual event.

I notice also that you only have 29 post and of that number, several are directed at Steve. Who are you really?

It's not what I just "think", it's fact. Sound behaves in a certain fashion in air. Sound is more closely related to fluid dynamics than any other discipline. It's the same in my room, yours, and Steve's. Superior bass is different in different applications. For example, "sheer output" has nothing to do with it unless you are at a hip-hop club or rock concert. In those 2 cases I suppose "sheer output" would equal "superior bass".

I never said the Gen VIII does or does not produce "superior bass to the Casablanca." I simply said it's probably not the whole story.

There most definitely is a way to quantify "one-note bass" and/or "faster bass". Without being verbose I think the best way to explain about bass is this: under 200Hz the room is the dominant factor in the sound of bass you hear. By sound I'm referring to pitch, definition, slam, depth, ad infinitum. Choose any adjective you wish to choose.

I believe it was Steve who mentioned the superiority of the bass going from Vandersteens in the corners to Aerials, but it could have been someone else. My point is that it's less to do with the electronics or sub's brand than it is to with the rooms acoustics. Pressurization of room modes and standing waves come into play here. All rooms have them and there are no perfect rooms. Don't forget this either:



I didn't realize several of my posts are directed at Steve. I hope they are directed at everyone. Even if they are I'm not sure what relevance that has to this subject. Steve has his opinions just like everyone else here and he's very vocal so he gets me thinking often.
post #5621 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

It's not what I just "think", it's fact. Sound behaves in a certain fashion in air. Sound is more closely related to fluid dynamics than any other discipline. It's the same in my room, yours, and Steve's. Superior bass is different in different applications. For example, "sheer output" has nothing to do with it unless you are at a hip-hop club or rock concert. In those 2 cases I suppose "sheer output" would equal "superior bass".

I never said the Gen VIII does or does not produce "superior bass to the Casablanca." I simply said it's probably not the whole story.

There most definitely is a way to quantify "one-note bass" and/or "faster bass". Without being verbose I think the best way to explain about bass is this: under 200Hz the room is the dominant factor in the sound of bass you hear. By sound I'm referring to pitch, definition, slam, depth, ad infinitum. Choose any adjective you wish to choose.

I believe it was Steve who mentioned the superiority of the bass going from Vandersteens in the corners to Aerials, but it could have been someone else. My point is that it's less to do with the electronics or sub's brand than it is to with the rooms acoustics. Pressurization of room modes and standing waves come into play here. All rooms have them and there are no perfect rooms. Don't forget this either:



I didn't realize several of my posts are directed at Steve. I hope they are directed at everyone. Even if they are I'm not sure what relevance that has to this subject. Steve has his opinions just like everyone else here and he's very vocal so he gets me thinking often.
I.

I got rid of Vandy subs 13 years ago! haven't discussed Vandy subs in years and years! your memory is faulty. Whoever you really are, probably Don or Doug, I doubt you own Theta, and now I am going back to listening to Patsy Cline DSD download from Acoustic Sounds new Hi Res website and some redbook Gillian Welch downloaded from her website!
Edited by Steve Bruzonsky - 10/10/13 at 12:46am
post #5622 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

It's not what I just "think", it's fact. Sound behaves in a certain fashion in air. Sound is more closely related to fluid dynamics than any other discipline. It's the same in my room, yours, and Steve's. Superior bass is different in different applications. For example, "sheer output" has nothing to do with it unless you are at a hip-hop club or rock concert. In those 2 cases I suppose "sheer output" would equal "superior bass".

I never said the Gen VIII does or does not produce "superior bass to the Casablanca." I simply said it's probably not the whole story.

There most definitely is a way to quantify "one-note bass" and/or "faster bass". Without being verbose I think the best way to explain about bass is this: under 200Hz the room is the dominant factor in the sound of bass you hear. By sound I'm referring to pitch, definition, slam, depth, ad infinitum. Choose any adjective you wish to choose.

I believe it was Steve who mentioned the superiority of the bass going from Vandersteens in the corners to Aerials, but it could have been someone else. My point is that it's less to do with the electronics or sub's brand than it is to with the rooms acoustics. Pressurization of room modes and standing waves come into play here. All rooms have them and there are no perfect rooms. Don't forget this either:



I didn't realize several of my posts are directed at Steve. I hope they are directed at everyone. Even if they are I'm not sure what relevance that has to this subject. Steve has his opinions just like everyone else here and he's very vocal so he gets me thinking often.
This is redundant and condescending because Steve and I are well aware of the things your are saying. I am certain Edorr is well familiar with the science as well. There is a section of the forum for this. Reading this post, I am like ,"REALLY???" rolleyes.gif You only have 30 or so post. We have no idea of your experience or knowledge base. If you are indeed new,you perhaps should "lurk" some more before you start lecturing.
Edited by Bulldogger - 10/10/13 at 5:35am
post #5623 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post


This setup should really shine when the PR3 card is released shortly. If the demo is half of what I am expecting then there will be 2 Extreme Cards, and a Premium card for sale very shortly.
I see some Xtreme dacs and a Premium card for sale on Audiogon.
post #5624 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

This is redundant and condescending because Steve and I are well aware of the things your are saying. I am certain Edorr is well familiar with the science as well. There is a section of the forum for this. Reading this post, I am like ,"REALLY???" rolleyes.gif You only have 30 or so post. We have no idea of your experience or knowledge base. If you are indeed new,you perhaps should "lurk" some more before you start lecturing.

I too have only a handful of posts. But I have twenty years of experience in the high end, much of it as a "lurker" here and at other sites. I am knowledgeable enough to teach a thing or two to my Theta dealer.

One reason that I don't post more often is because the AVS "regulars" sometimes have a condescending attitude towards new posters. On occasion, this attitude may be merited; perhaps this exchange with BigAnt is one such case. But I find that the regulars often don't discriminate between thoughtful and less thoughtful posts by newbies...all tend to be ignored, dismissed, or worse. For the health of this board, may I ask that you tread carefully when dealing with relative newcomers? I would think you would want to expand the size of the "club," not make it exclusive.
post #5625 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I see some Xtreme dacs and a Premium card for sale on Audiogon.

I probably put them up pre-maturely. I have a lot more to figure out. I have discovered that when I installed the new digital output card in the CB3HD all sources 44.1, 48, etc. are sample rate converted to 96, and output 96 out of the digital outputs. I do not consider this a benefit, especially since sample rate conversion occurs 1 or 2 times down stream before conversion to 96. The new PR3 with Dirac will still be 96K digital out only in the first release.

I am therefore setting up multiple configurations to determine the best sonics.

These include removal of digital output card and running analog out of the CB3HD into Analog input of Trinnov.

Removing the CB3HD completely from the chain and running Oppe 103 with Vanity 103 lite digital into Trinnov. All of my sources will continue to be switched by my Radiance XE and multiple HDMI siwtches into the two HDMI inputs of the Oppo.

So I may either sell all my Dacs, None of my Dacs, Or my entire CB3HD.
post #5626 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor D View Post

I too have only a handful of posts. But I have twenty years of experience in the high end, much of it as a "lurker" here and at other sites. I am knowledgeable enough to teach a thing or two to my Theta dealer.

One reason that I don't post more often is because the AVS "regulars" sometimes have a condescending attitude towards new posters. On occasion, this attitude may be merited; perhaps this exchange with BigAnt is one such case. But I find that the regulars often don't discriminate between thoughtful and less thoughtful posts by newbies...all tend to be ignored, dismissed, or worse. For the health of this board, may I ask that you tread carefully when dealing with relative newcomers? I would think you would want to expand the size of the "club," not make it exclusive.
I welcome new members. But when you start ,"Blind leading the blind." That's never going to get a warm welcome.
post #5627 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

I probably put them up pre-maturely. I have a lot more to figure out. I have discovered that when I installed the new digital output card in the CB3HD all sources 44.1, 48, etc. are sample rate converted to 96, and output 96 out of the digital outputs. I do not consider this a benefit, especially since sample rate conversion occurs 1 or 2 times down stream before conversion to 96. The new PR3 with Dirac will still be 96K digital out only in the first release.

I am therefore setting up multiple configurations to determine the best sonics.

These include removal of digital output card and running analog out of the CB3HD into Analog input of Trinnov.

Removing the CB3HD completely from the chain and running Oppe 103 with Vanity 103 lite digital into Trinnov. All of my sources will continue to be switched by my Radiance XE and multiple HDMI siwtches into the two HDMI inputs of the Oppo.

So I may either sell all my Dacs, None of my Dacs, Or my entire CB3HD.
I think your experiment my be a bit early. The Casablanca is not running at 24/96 until after the upgrade. Even though the output is 24/96, I am sure that's upsampled. If you compare a native 24/96 output from say the Oppo with the output of the digital output, it will not be an apples to apples comparison. It is likely you are tired of waiting and want room correction now. If you want an accurate assessment of sound quality now, the best you can do is limit source material to 24/48 for an "apples to apples" comparison.

I asked Roger Dressler about processor running at a set sample rate. They all seem to do this. Trinnov piece, not being a prepro may be a better option if you don't want everything converted to the sample rate at which the pre/pro uses. This issue first came to my attention when a Datasat RS20i owner became aware of the issue.
post #5628 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post


What series Gen 8 are you using? I don't think the series 3 has a "fixed" setting, at least if it does I haven't found out how to select it. As best as I can figure, the series 3 is configured to output a fixed volume by selecting unity gain for the selected input. The selected input can be any of the Gen 8 inputs either digital or analog.
The owners manual needs to be updated as per John. All Gen VIII series 3 have Fixed Output. The Unity Gain is gone.
post #5629 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor D View Post

I too have only a handful of posts. But I have twenty years of experience in the high end, much of it as a "lurker" here and at other sites. I am knowledgeable enough to teach a thing or two to my Theta dealer.

One reason that I don't post more often is because the AVS "regulars" sometimes have a condescending attitude towards new posters. On occasion, this attitude may be merited; perhaps this exchange with BigAnt is one such case. But I find that the regulars often don't discriminate between thoughtful and less thoughtful posts by newbies...all tend to be ignored, dismissed, or worse. For the health of this board, may I ask that you tread carefully when dealing with relative newcomers? I would think you would want to expand the size of the "club," not make it exclusive.

I don't think I've done anything to merit or warrant this attitude, but who knows? Steve B. doubts I own Theta and claims my memory is faulty, Bulldogger thinks I'm redundant and condescending, but is certain edorr is "well familiar with the science as well."

I don't have time to post a lot, so sure call me a "lurker" for lack of an imagination and friendlier term. Personally, I prefer observer.

I, too, would like to expand the size of this club. Theta, and many other higher-end A/V products are wonderful to own and enrich our lives.

I don't see how slamming a newcomer (only to this site) achieves anything positive for anyone.
post #5630 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Interesting! Steve I have a question for you and you are likely the only one that can answer. Theta owners with Compli Blu players have always had linear power supplies so don't have a frame of reference as to how much changing the power supply matters. Over HDMI, how much of an improvement did you realize with your Casablanca after you added the linear supply to your Oppo? I am asking because I wonder how much of effect this will have on a music server as well. You may have mention the improvements before but I would appreciate any further elaborations.

To be honest, I didn't notice anything startling!! But I never A-B 'd them alongside each other. Plus, relative to you guys I'm probably hearing impaired. I do notice, however, that my Oppo sounds better than my current switch-brick powered audio server. But I think a lot of the upside in the audio server power can be had by cleaning the 12V into the Pico PSU. That can be done cheaply and is a good first step ahead of spending a large sum on a linear PSU.
post #5631 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

I don't think I've done anything to merit or warrant this attitude, but who knows? Steve B. doubts I own Theta and claims my memory is faulty, Bulldogger thinks I'm redundant and condescending, but is certain edorr is "well familiar with the science as well."

I don't have time to post a lot, so sure call me a "lurker" for lack of an imagination and friendlier term. Personally, I prefer observer.

I, too, would like to expand the size of this club. Theta, and many other higher-end A/V products are wonderful to own and enrich our lives.

I don't see how slamming a newcomer (only to this site) achieves anything positive for anyone.
Can we keep this discussion on Theta products. I will be glad to discuss room acoustics with you but in the appropriate forum. My favorite source of information,http://www.avsforum.com/u/78062/terry-montlick has retired. You aren't adding anything by making assumptions as to what ,"dentist and lawyers," know of which I am neither. Steve, a lawyer, has paid so much attention to acoustics as to have his room custom built to reduce room modes. Yourself?

Can we keep this discussion on Theta products? What Theta products do you own? Plan to buy the Casablanca or get one upgraded? Have an opinions of the attempts to reduce jitter transmitted over HDMI as it relates to prepros?
post #5632 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

People that know exactly what they are talking about (at the level of digital signal processing technology), never agree on anything either. You can have one well respected professional designer argue why it is categorically impossible for something (for example using Jplay) to make any difference on sound quality and an equally respected designer arguing the exact opposite.

They will both dazzle you with convincing techno talk and leave you utterly confused. So what you do is install Jplay, listen to it in your system and decide for yourself if it improves sound.

You don't need a class in acoustic to hear for yourself what improves sound and what does not.

So my skepticism about any technology (Jitterrjail II) being able to completely level the playing field between digital sources (i.e. high jitter / noise source sounds as good as low jitter / noise source) is ultimately based on my personal observations, comparing different sources on very high grade DACs with buffering and reclocking which cannot do this. If Theta Jitterjail II does it, hats off to them; they would have a game changing technology in their hands.

What makes this hobby interesting to me is its unique blend of science, technology, voodoo, passion for gear and passion for music.

People that do know exactly what they are talking about (Steve Nugent, Floyd Toole, Ed Meitner, Dick Burwen, etc.) DO agree on a lot of things, such as ideal frequency response characteristics and power response. What they may disagree about is how to achieve a certain goal/standard. To say they "never agree on anything either" is a gross overstatement and factually incorrect.

If you are being dazzled with "convincing techno talk" and "utterly confused" then, yes, you should take a few classes to learn at least the basics of your hobby.
post #5633 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

To be honest, I didn't notice anything startling!! But I never A-B 'd them alongside each other. Plus, relative to you guys I'm probably hearing impaired. I do notice, however, that my Oppo sounds better than my current switch-brick powered audio server. But I think a lot of the upside in the audio server power can be had by cleaning the 12V into the Pico PSU. That can be done cheaply and is a good first step ahead of spending a large sum on a linear PSU.
Video unchanged? When the improvements are significant, you tend to notice even without A-B comparison. I have noticed quite a bit of difference with different players used as digital sources. You can solve the issue with audiophile designed USB to SPDIF converters but HDMI seem to really be a challenge.
post #5634 of 6796
did not notice but by it's nature I would not expect an improvement in pixel video
post #5635 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

I don't think I've done anything to merit or warrant this attitude, but who knows? Steve B. doubts I own Theta and claims my memory is faulty, Bulldogger thinks I'm redundant and condescending, but is certain edorr is "well familiar with the science as well."

I don't have time to post a lot, so sure call me a "lurker" for lack of an imagination and friendlier term. Personally, I prefer observer.

I, too, would like to expand the size of this club. Theta, and many other higher-end A/V products are wonderful to own and enrich our lives.

I don't see how slamming a newcomer (only to this site) achieves anything positive for anyone.

My impression is that you enjoy the "drama" that you are causing here. Yes, from your conduct and posts so far, I have Extreme Doubt that you own any Theta products, that you are just trying to stir up drama. You have gone out of your way to belittle me if one reads between the lines of your posts.
post #5636 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777BigAnt777 View Post

I didn't realize several of my posts are directed at Steve. I hope they are directed at everyone. Even if they are I'm not sure what relevance that has to this subject. Steve has his opinions just like everyone else here and he's very vocal so he gets me thinking often.

????????????????????????????????????????????

You talk just like a once upon a time friend of mine who is an audio manufacturer, but who I haven't talked to in years. Interesting.
post #5637 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Interesting! Steve I have a question for you and you are likely the only one that can answer. Theta owners with Compli Blu players have always had linear power supplies so don't have a frame of reference as to how much changing the power supply matters. Over HDMI, how much of an improvement did you realize with your Casablanca after you added the linear supply to your Oppo? I am asking because I wonder how much of effect this will have on a music server as well. You may have mention the improvements before but I would appreciate any further elaborations.

I have had the Oppo 83, Oppo 93, Marantz UD9004, theta Compli blu, and now Theta Complu Blu 3d. No doubt that the Marantz and two Theta players sound about the same over HDMI, clearly better than the Oppos, for blu rays in particular blu ray music discs.
And as a digital transport via digital coaxial, the Oppos suck totally compared to the Marantz and Theta players.
post #5638 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Hi all! I have been on the search for a pre/pro for a theater I will be building soon. My search has led me to (and past) Anthem, Krell, and Datasat...and then I stumbled onto Theta Digital. The modular nature of the Theta Casablanca make it different from other pre/pros that reach obselesence winth each new trade show. I'm coming from a theater powered by a series of Integra (80.2 & 80.3) and Marantz (8801) processors, all of which have been sold. I'm currently ready to dive into true high end, but the Theta pricing structure is a bit confusing. Does anyone know what (functionally) I get with the base Casablanca IV model? I want to hold off on the HDMI card as I'm sure a HDMI 2.0 card will be released shortly. Also, does anyone know when the IV will be available?

I think my above post may have been lost in the shuffle, but does anyone know what the base functionality of the Casablanca IV will have, as well as when it will be available? I'm considering going in the direction of the Theta Casablanca due its apparent longevity.
post #5639 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post


And as a digital transport via digital coaxial, the Oppos suck totally compared to the Marantz and Theta players.

Given they are the same except the power supply and enclosure then that points to a lot to be gained from the PSU!
post #5640 of 6796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

????????????????????????????????????????????

You talk just like a once upon a time friend of mine who is an audio manufacturer, but who I haven't talked to in years. Interesting.

? Whatever that means.
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