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The official "Theta" thread - Page 32

post #931 of 5067
4/27/11 at 6:44am
I'm seriously considering a Casablanca III HD for my theater, but am a little concerned about the companies history of seemingly poor support of it's products to existing customers and very slow implementation of upgrades. From what I have read, many promises were made for timely hardware/firmware upgrades, but for instance the HDMI input took 3 years to implement from the time it was announced.
I'm not trying to start a war here as I know folks can get real passionate real fast, I'm just trying to get a feel for what I can expect in the way of support if I go down the Theta path. I'm sure it will sound fantastic but if it breaks will I own a $20K paperweight?
What's more, there have been a few posts speculating on Theta's long term stability as a company - can anyone comment on what might be in store for them? I realize that is an unfair question, but with my luck I'll plug the new unit in the day the company goes belly up...
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post #932 of 5067
4/27/11 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

I'm seriously considering a Casablanca III HD for my theater, but am a little concerned about the companies history of seemingly poor support of it's products to existing customers and very slow implementation of upgrades. From what I have read, many promises were made for timely hardware/firmware upgrades, but for instance the HDMI input took 3 years to implement from the time it was announced.
I'm not trying to start a war here as I know folks can get real passionate real fast, I'm just trying to get a feel for what I can expect in the way of support if I go down the Theta path. I'm sure it will sound fantastic but if it breaks will I own a $20K paperweight?
What's more, there have been a few posts speculating on Theta's long term stability as a company - can anyone comment on what might be in store for them? I realize that is an unfair question, but with my luck I'll plug the new unit in the day the company goes belly up...

Considering the chief R&D guy is doing the upgrades himself, and they are cranking out a grand total of 2 upgraded units a week, clearly after three years of development this is not quite the big moneymaker that will guarantee Theta a new lease of life. Consequently, there is still distinct possibility ATI will pull the plug on the Theta brand at some point. In the interim, expect to be without your unit for months should you have a problem with it.

Irrespectively, buying a brand new unit @ 20K makes no sense. If Theta sticks around its resale value if 10K tops, if they go under may be 6K. If you buy a used CBIII with the right cards for 5K, get it upgraded for less than 4K street price your exposure is a few $1,000, not the >$10,000 on a new unit.
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post #933 of 5067
4/27/11 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

I'm seriously considering a Casablanca III HD for my theater, but am a little concerned about the companies history of seemingly poor support of it's products to existing customers and very slow implementation of upgrades. From what I have read, many promises were made for timely hardware/firmware upgrades, but for instance the HDMI input took 3 years to implement from the time it was announced.
I'm not trying to start a war here as I know folks can get real passionate real fast, I'm just trying to get a feel for what I can expect in the way of support if I go down the Theta path. I'm sure it will sound fantastic but if it breaks will I own a $20K paperweight?
What's more, there have been a few posts speculating on Theta's long term stability as a company - can anyone comment on what might be in store for them? I realize that is an unfair question, but with my luck I'll plug the new unit in the day the company goes belly up...

I think it's a safe buy used. ATI appears to be a stable company. For 20k, with the current market, I am not sure there is any prepro that I buy. I would buy a Gen VIII new because the preamp section is great as is the dac section.
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post #934 of 5067
4/27/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I think it's a safe buy used. ATI appears to be a stable company. For 20k, with the current market, I am not sure there is any prepro that I buy. I would buy a Gen VIII new because the preamp section is great as is the dac section.

Why would you buy new ANY piece of electronics that has been on the market for a few years and sells used for 40% of new price - no matter how good it is?
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post #935 of 5067
4/27/11 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Why would you buy new ANY piece of electronics that has been on the market for a few years and sells used for 40% of new price - no matter how good it is?

There can be many reasons to buy new products; guarantee, get the latest and best technology, trade-in of older products as part of deal, lack of availability of used products in your area to mention some.
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post #936 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post


Why would you buy new ANY piece of electronics that has been on the market for a few years and sells used for 40% of new price - no matter how good it is?

Well I buy Mcintosh amps new because they are so damn pretty! I don't want one fracking scratch on my pretty arse amps. Not one! I purchased my Marantz new because I got a warranty and I have had a few problems with transports from various players breaking. I buy new and used. Depends on the situation.
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post #937 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:06am
Ok so all that said, how is post purchase support? Is Theta competent at providing end-user installable firmware on a regular basis?

And btw, the 20k I listed is retail, the specific unit I am considering is nowhere near that
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post #938 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

There can be many reasons to buy new products; guarantee, get the latest and best technology, trade-in of older products as part of deal, lack of availability of used products in your area to mention some.

Buy used if you can as none of this stuff has any real value as new except to use it while its the latest technology. As an example, I purchased at full retail from a dealer an Arcam AV9 only to see it replaced by a new unit within months of my purchase. I saw my unit drop 5k just like that. If I were in the market for a state of the art processor and owned the Theta, I'd rather opt for the Classe CT-SSP. That would be the smart money purchase, but it too, will be worthless soon.
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post #939 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Ok so all that said, how is post purchase support? Is Theta competent at providing end-user installable firmware on a regular basis?

And btw, the 20k I listed is retail, the specific unit I am considering is nowhere near that

Well there was a lack of support for DD Prologic IIx with DTS-MA and DD True HD which was addressed in a couple of days. I believe there have been a couple of revisions since launch. It's really too early to tell. Still an issue with post processing for LPCM. Expect a "process" of bug fixes with a unit this new. Yes the updates are end users installable.
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post #940 of 5067
4/27/11 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

There can be many reasons to buy new products; guarantee, get the latest and best technology, trade-in of older products as part of deal, lack of availability of used products in your area to mention some.

I bought new the following items:

Marantz ud9004
PS Audio bridge
PS Audio P5' power conditioners
Stillpoint Ultra's
Oppo 93

In all cases the reason was the same; (1) no other equavalent used component was available used at a substantial discount, (2) for the component itself no second hand market exists yet because the component is too new, and (3) I was too impatient to wait for a used market to develop.
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post #941 of 5067
4/27/11 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Well there was a lack of support for DD Prologic IIx with DTS-MA and DD True HD which was addressed in a couple of days. I believe there have been a couple of revisions since launch. It's really too early to tell. Still an issue with post processing for LPCM. Expect a "process" of bug fixes with a unit this new. Yes the updates are end users installable.

Has anyone with a 7.1 system verified the PLIIx operation per my proposal here? Should be done with bitstream and LPCM, too.
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post #942 of 5067
4/27/11 at 11:51am
Roger, unfortunately at this point the CB3HD does not process LPCM using PLIIX http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20096248
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post #943 of 5067
4/27/11 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Roger, unfortunately at this point the CB3HD does not process LPCM using PLIIX http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20096248

Ok. So how about with the HDMA bitstream?
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post #944 of 5067
4/27/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

This is the post that got me wondering. It also looks like PLIIx is not enabled for PCM (yet), but that's an easy fix.

Still think it is an easy fix for PCM?
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post #945 of 5067
4/27/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Ok. So how about with the HDMA bitstream?

No problems there. That was not the case originally. It was fixed in a couple of days after release.
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post #946 of 5067
4/27/11 at 2:38pm
Roger, how do you think that are downsampling the digital output? ASRC? I was looking at a picture of the digital out card. Does not look there is any room on that card to modify it. Also the ASRC is 10 channels on the Momemtum Data Systems board. Theta is doing doing 12 but 4 are subs.
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post #947 of 5067
4/27/11 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Ok so all that said, how is post purchase support? Is Theta competent at providing end-user installable firmware on a regular basis?

And btw, the 20k I listed is retail, the specific unit I am considering is nowhere near that

I bought my Casablanca in 1998. I've had it upgraded now the third time. I now have on outstanding pre-pro with an 8.4 channel configuration that processes the new HD audio codecs. In fact, if you read through this post you will notice that for the older units, Theta is just about replacing the whole CB except for the DAC cards (I know that I now have a completely new chassis). I can't think of anything more I could have reasonably asked for from a company.

I have never had a problem with any of my versions of the Casablanca. I once had a real difficult problem with a DaViD II transport that I owned. I had to have the unit back to Theta three times before they were able to find the problem. But they finally found and fixed the problem. To top it off I had bought the transport used; still they gave me no hassels.

I have only had my CBIII-HD set up for two days and I'm still getting it dialed back into my system so I'm not going to say a lot about how the unit sounds. I can say that so far everything is behaving as it should. The HDMI interface is able to interface with my FIOS cable box and my Oppo BDP-83 without any problems so far. I used the AIX calibration disc last night and was able to receive and process both bitstream (both Dolby TruHD and DTS-MA) and LPCM inputs. So far I'm impressed with the unit. I just hope that Theta gets the user manual and the replacement/upgrade for Crystal out soon; it will make the setup that much easier.

I feel very comfortable recommending both Theta as a company and ther CasablancaIII-HD as a product.
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post #948 of 5067
4/27/11 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I bought new the following items:

Marantz ud9004
PS Audio bridge
PS Audio P5' power conditioners
Stillpoint Ultra's
Oppo 93

In all cases the reason was the same; (1) no other equavalent used component was available used at a substantial discount, (2) for the component itself no second hand market exists yet because the component is too new, and (3) I was too impatient to wait for a used market to develop.

Did you get your P5s yet!!! Someday the PS Audio ads featuring what "Steve Bruzonsky says" about the P300 and Power Plant Premier will be worth five cents.
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post #949 of 5067
4/27/11 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post

I bought my Casablanca in 1998. I've had it upgraded now the third time. This last upgrade to the III-HD cost me $3500 plus the cost of a new Premium DAC. I now have on outstanding pre-pro with an 8.4 channel configuration that processes the new HD audio codecs. In fact, if you read through this post you will notice that for the older units, Theta is just about replacing the whole CB except for the DAC cards (I know that I now have a completely new chassis). I can't think of anything more I could have reasonably asked for from a company.

I have never had a problem with any of my versions of the Casablanca. I once had a real difficult problem with a DaViD II transport that I owned. I had to have the unit back to Theta three times before they were able to find the problem. But they finally found and fixed the problem. To top it off I had bought the transport used; still they gave me no hassels.

I have only had my CBIII-HD set up for two days and I'm still getting it dialed back into my system so I'm not going to say a lot about how the unit sounds. I can say that so far everything is behaving as it should. The HDMI interface is able to interface with my FIOS cable box and my Oppo BDP-83 without any problems so far. I used the AIX calibration disc last night and was able to receive and process both bitstream (both Dolby TruHD and DTS-MA) and LPCM inputs. So far I'm impressed with the unit. I just hope that Theta gets the user manual and the replacement/upgrade for Crystal out soon; it will make the setup that much easier.

I feel very comfortable recommending both Theta as a company and ther CasablancaIII-HD as a product.

We are fortunate that ATI bought Theta. A smaller company buying Theta would have gone belly under. ATI also recently bought B&K. ATI manufactures lotsa amplifiers and other audio and home theater gear
for other companies. I think Morris Kessler, owner of ATI, has simply been conservative, given the state of the economy. Just look at Audiogon and even used stuff hardly sells. But ATI came through with the CB3 HD, and even has a Dreadnaught 3 out. I think ATI is gonna be around. And if you buy a new product from Theta, you are buying a new product from ATI, too, as they are simply using Theta Digital as a trade name wholly owned and operated by ATI.

Once I got my menu right on the CB3 HD, everything works like a charm!
I have a 5.1 system, chaining three subs. No more losing lock on DirecTV - those days are of the old CB3,not the new CB3 HD! That along is quite impressive.
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post #950 of 5067
4/27/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I bought new the following items:

Marantz ud9004
PS Audio bridge
PS Audio P5' power conditioners
Stillpoint Ultra's
Oppo 93

In all cases the reason was the same; (1) no other equavalent used component was available used at a substantial discount, (2) for the component itself no second hand market exists yet because the component is too new, and (3) I was too impatient to wait for a used market to develop.


You should know by now if you would be patient and wait 5-6 months you can always by the item used from me, at my cost (since I am such a good bargainer and have good friends)!!!@@@
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post #951 of 5067
4/27/11 at 5:29pm
schlitzie,
I can second that the upgrade cycle has been good to me. I started off with a DSPro and upgraded a couple times and traded off for a CB I at Gen III or V. Don't remember now. The CB has been also upgraded a couple times, the last to IIIHD. I also was one of the lucky guys that essentially got a new machine this round. New Extreme and Premium DACs along with a new chassis. Theta did a beautiful job each time. About the only regret is that I didn't keep the DSPro upgrade cycle going along with it.

While I can't comment in detail on the sound overall my first impression was absolutely stunning. I expected it to be a bit better as the old Superior I DAC wasn't a world beater by today's standards nor was the Denon 3800 DACs via the Six Shooter exactly state of the art. But I still wasn't prepared for just how much better overall the sound was. The clarity, effortless volume levels and so on on either DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD was night and day. Ditto for red book CD. Now that I've got a Compli Blu in the system I'll be doing SACD also though I don't have a good baseline there.

The advice to buy used is sound. It hedges your bet and doesn't leave you hanging out very much if you buy the right machine that's upgrade ready. The conundrum is that if every one buys used there won't be enough cash coming in to keep it going as I can't imagine Theta makes that much on the upgrades. In the foreseeable future I'd expect upgrades to continue slow as it sounds like pretty much a one man band. Same for repairs.

I agree with BD on the appearance part. When you're spending this kind of money you don't want to see one scratch. Doesn't make it sound any better but there's more than a bit of pride of ownership in this also.

If you do decide to go the used Casablanca route do make sure that you get a machine that's upgrade ready as the upgrade and DAC sale is long gone. I wouldn't have been able to swing this one due to needing DAC's also without that sale and a great deal from VGI on top of it. No one can foresee the future for Theta but I have no problem at all recommending the CB as a SSP. If the sound is any indication the future should be a good one.

I'm with jjwinterberg. It will be nice to have a functional version of Crystal again. Setting up standing in front of the rack is a pain. And all I did so far was duplicate my old set up. There's still some level balancing and cross over tweaking to do.
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post #952 of 5067
4/27/11 at 5:34pm
I have to second Steve that ATI buying Theta was a good thing for Theta's future. Wait, is that sound h*ll freezing over? A lawyer and engineer agreeing...
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post #953 of 5067
4/27/11 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Did you get your P5s yet!!! Someday the PS Audio ads featuring what "Steve Bruzonsky says" about the P300 and Power Plant Premier will be worth five cents.

They arrived today and are both boxed up in the basement. I probably won't get around to installing them with all my gear before the week-end, but I can probably hook them up to my monoblocks for burn in later this evening.
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post #954 of 5067
4/27/11 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

You should know by now if you would be patient and wait 5-6 months you can always by the item used from me, at my cost (since I am such a good bargainer and have good friends)!!!@@@

I actually got a killer deal on the P5's through a mutual friend of ours.....
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post #955 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:05pm
The Stevie Wonder blu ray shootout tonight:

Don't forget, I have Theta CB3 HD, Six Shooter, and Gen VIII Series 2 DAC all hooked and workin'. With pair of Citadel 1.5s, 3 Enterprise monoblocks, four Aerial Acoustics 9s, one Aerial CC5 center, and three Aeria SW12 subs.

1. Marantz UD9004 multi-channel analog

2. Oppo BDP-93 HDMI processed by CB3 HD

3. Marantz UD9004 HDMI processed by CB3 HD


From an operational standpoint, it would be nice to just keep the Oppo and sell the Marantz. If the Oppo equals the Marantz on top dog blu ray music, then I can.

Last weekend, blu ray disc Black Swan, after watching using the Marantz HDMI, we watched the end using the Oppo HDMI. Sounded about same to me, except there were a few bass trickles I felt on music with the Marantz that I didn't feel with the Oppo. Very impressive for the Oppo.

Last night, listened a bit to a Norwegian 2L orchestra multi-channel blu ray. Only compared Marantz analog vs Oppo HDMI. Oppo more up front, Marantz analog more like a larger concert hall. Both sounded excellent.

Tonight, the Wonder shootout.

First, the Marantz analog multi-channel sounded really good. But I sort of thought it was missing something from when I last played Steverino's blu ray with Marantz HDMI about a week ago. But it sounded great!

Second, the Oppo HDMI sounded really good. More up front. Otherwise as good as the Marantz analog, just more up front. Mebbe that Marantz is gonna be sold.

Third, the Marantz HDMI. Can one transport sound better over HDMI to the CB3 HD than another? Darn! I heard it immediately. Music was fuller and more focused, bass more real life pronounced, voice more you are there. The real deal! Dynamic range clearly seems more pronounced, better microdynamics, too!

I will do some more comparing other stuff of course as time marches on.
But if tonight's test findings continue this bodes well for trying out an Oppo as HDMI transport on steroids power supply - once Theta sells out of their existing Compli Blu and come out with the Compli Blu 3D based on the Oppo BDP-95. We don't have any idea when this will happen of course. So don't ask!

So what if the CB3 digi out downsamples to 48khz to my external Gen VIII Series 3 DAC.Still sounds sensational. The music is what really counts!
I am glad I got the Gen VIII even though the downsampling is a disappointment.

Before I forget, whats really nifty is that the Marantz HDMI is clearly more microphonic than the other options. Right now I can feel Stevie Wonders good lookin daughter as the vibrations from her voice vibrate the microphone, and me in the crowd!
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post #956 of 5067
4/27/11 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

The Stevie Wonder blu ray shootout tonight:

Don't forget, I have Theta CB3 HD, Six Shooter, and Gen VIII Series 2 DAC all hooked and workin'. With pair of Citadel 1.5s, 3 Enterprise monoblocks, four Aerial Acoustics 9s, one Aerial CC5 center, and three Aeria SW12 subs.

1. Marantz UD9004 multi-channel analog

2. Oppo BDP-93 HDMI processed by CB3 HD

3. Marantz UD9004 HDMI processed by CB3 HD


From an operational standpoint, it would be nice to just keep the Oppo and sell the Marantz. If the Oppo equals the Marantz on top dog blu ray music, then I can.

Last weekend, blu ray disc Black Swan, after watching using the Marantz HDMI, we watched the end using the Oppo HDMI. Sounded about same to me, except there were a few bass trickles I felt on music with the Marantz that I didn't feel with the Oppo. Very impressive for the Oppo.

Last night, listened a bit to a Norwegian 2L orchestra multi-channel blu ray. Only compared Marantz analog vs Oppo HDMI. Oppo more up front, Marantz analog more like a larger concert hall. Both sounded excellent.

Tonight, the Wonder shootout.

First, the Marantz analog multi-channel sounded really good. But I sort of thought it was missing something from when I last played Steverino's blu ray with Marantz HDMI about a week ago. But it sounded great!

Second, the Oppo HDMI sounded really good. More up front. Otherwise as good as the Marantz analog, just more up front. Mebbe that Marantz is gonna be sold.

Third, the Marantz HDMI. Can one transport sound better over HDMI to the CB3 HD than another? Darn! I heard it immediately. Music was fuller and more focused, bass more real life pronounced, voice more you are there. The real deal! Dynamic range clearly seems more pronounced, better microdynamics, too!

I will do some more comparing other stuff of course as time marches on.
But if tonight's test findings continue this bodes well for trying out an Oppo as HDMI transport on steroids power supply - once Theta sells out of their existing Compli Blu and come out with the Compli Blu 3D based on the Oppo BDP-95. We don't have any idea when this will happen of course. So don't ask!

So what if the CB3 digi out downsamples to 48khz to my external Gen VIII Series 3 DAC.Still sounds sensational. The music is what really counts!
I am glad I got the Gen VIII even though the downsampling is a disappointment.

Before I forget, whats really nifty is that the Marantz HDMI is clearly more microphonic than the other options. Right now I can feel Stevie Wonders good lookin daughter as the vibrations from her voice vibrate the microphone, and me in the crowd!


Steve, I am so happy that you are happy and enjoying your new Upgraded CB3HD.. It's so nice to see people happy with their investment and yes I can't agree more about Morris(ATI) buying Theta and saving the Company. I almost bought it from Neil and I have to tell you that i am glad i didn't as Morris has done an awesome job making this happen. There were times it almost went away believe me but its here and it works great and it isn't over.

With the amount of people jumping on CB3HD's both new and Upgrades , it Validates that the CB3HD will live for many more years and there are lots of cool things to come in the next few years. This machine may end up outliving some of us and how cool would it be to hand these down to our kids and for them to upgrade it for another 20 years..

Keep enjoying and keep us updated to your joyous listening.

Craig
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post #957 of 5067
4/28/11 at 2:13am
I am waiting for the CB3 HD upgrade. current system is Pana Bluray, Compli as transport, CB3 with 2 extreme cards, GenVIII Series2, Krell EVO 600e, Wilson Maxx2

You guys seem to try many set up with CB3HD & Gen VIII Series2 so you may have ideas on my upgrade.

I have the problem with the only one input AES/BEU of Gen VIII as I notice that listening CD directly from Compli -> XLR of Gen VIII is better than Compli -> XLR to CB3 -> digital out XLR to Gen VIII. I want the best for both movie and music so I have to pull out and plug in XLR between Gen VIII and CB3. Now I am tired of doing so and plan to buy another coaxial to link between CB3 & Gen VIII for 7.2 set up and save XLR for Compli & Gen VIII.

- Once CB3HD arrive I plan to buy Oppo-93. I wonder if listening CD through its HDMI to CB3HD then digital out to Gen VIII will be improved enough to compare with only Compli & Gen VIII Series2.

- I am considering upgrade 2-channel system between
1. Adding a stand alone Preamp like Audio research or Krell EVO-202 and use Gen VIII only DAC function.
2. Upgrade Interconnect cable between Gen VIII & my Krell EVO-600e to the top notch level.
Has any of you ever added external preamp and compared with Gen VIII internal Preamp?

- Since Gen VIII Series2 cannot output 24/192, wonder if CB3HD & Gen VIII is still the right choice for 7.2 set up or I should use CB3HD (2 extreme cards) and connect 2 subs in the chain.
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post #958 of 5067
4/28/11 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrellMania View Post

I am waiting for the CB3 HD upgrade. current system is Pana Bluray, Compli as transport, CB3 with 2 extreme cards, GenVIII Series2, Krell EVO 600e, Wilson Maxx2

You guys seem to try many set up with CB3HD & Gen VIII Series2 so you may have ideas on my upgrade.

I have the problem with the only one input AES/BEU of Gen VIII as I notice that listening CD directly from Compli -> XLR of Gen VIII is better than Compli -> XLR to CB3 -> digital out XLR to Gen VIII. I want the best for both movie and music so I have to pull out and plug in XLR between Gen VIII and CB3. Now I am tired of doing so and plan to buy another coaxial to link between CB3 & Gen VIII for 7.2 set up and save XLR for Compli & Gen VIII.

- Once CB3HD arrive I plan to buy Oppo-93. I wonder if listening CD through its HDMI to CB3HD then digital out to Gen VIII will be improved enough to compare with only Compli & Gen VIII Series2.

- I am considering upgrade 2-channel system between
1. Adding a stand alone Preamp like Audio research or Krell EVO-202 and use Gen VIII only DAC function.
2. Upgrade Interconnect cable between Gen VIII & my Krell EVO-600e to the top notch level.
Has any of you ever added external preamp and compared with Gen VIII internal Preamp?

- Since Gen VIII Series2 cannot output 24/192, wonder if CB3HD & Gen VIII is still the right choice for 7.2 set up or I should use CB3HD (2 extreme cards) and connect 2 subs in the chain.

I decided to forego the upgrade and found myself listening to 2 channel 80% of the time after had ripped my CD collection for usage with the Perfectwave DAC + Bridge. Consequently all my upgrades over the last 6 months have been stictly two channel. Here is what I found.

I added all Transparent Audio Reference cabling (the old model - new is prohibitively expensive) into the 2 channel chain. Big improvement. MY advice - buy a used pair cheap, try them out ans resell if you don't like them.

I put a 2 channel tube preamp into the chain (Modwright 36.5 LS/PS), for mains, replacing the six shooter (which I use in bypass mode for multi channel still). Spectacular improvement. The GenVIII uses the exact same circuitry as the six shooter, so although it is reportedly better then the six shooter, I cannot imagine there to be the level of improvement as what I achieved going with expensive tubes.

Next step up will be upgrading power with the new PS audio P5s. I will be able to tell more this week-end.

Final consideration. In a 7.2 system getting the SVS 2 channel sub equalizer may pay huge dividends. I would definitely try one. They may have a 30 day return policy.
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post #959 of 5067
4/28/11 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post


The GenVIII uses the exact same circuitry as the six shooter, so although it is reportedly better then the six shooter, I cannot imagine there to be the level of improvement as what I achieved going with expensive tubes.

policy.

There Is quite a bit of difference, power supply for example between the Six Shooter and Gen VIII. The specs are significantly different and substantially in the Gen ViiI's favor. I believed you made, logically perhaps, the same assumptions about how well the Six Shooter would fare against sub-10k preamps. In the end, though your assumptions were logical , they did not bear out. One really needs to compare the Gen VIII directly against the preamplifiers in question. The results are not always predictable. Then there is the "threshold test," : If another piece of gear is better is the difference great enough to justify the expense?

I applaud you for actually comparing the gear first hand. That is/was the only way to do it.
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post #960 of 5067
4/28/11 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
There Is quite a bit of difference, power supply for example between the Six Shooter and Gen VIII. The specs are significantly different and substantially in the Gen ViiI's favor. I believed you made, logically perhaps, the same assumptions about how well the Six Shooter would fare against sub-10k preamps. In the end, though your assumptions were logical , they did not bear out. One really needs to compare the Gen VIII directly against the preamplifiers in question. The results are not always predictable. Then there is the "threshold test," : If another piece of gear is better is the difference great enough to justify the expense?

I applaud you for actually comparing the gear first hand. That is/was the only way to do it.
Deductive reasoning in audio is indeed tricky business and there is no substitute for in system auditioning. However, based on my experience of taking a quantum leap with the SS to Modwright upgrade, I have no reservation saying this is an upgrade path at least worthwhile exploring for GenVIII owners with very high demands for 2 channel (Vinyl afficionados come to mind). It may be one just turns out to have a preference for tubes.
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