SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 5

Thanks for he time and effort guys. Loved the writes-ups, pics and videos!!




Probably cuz the price difference. It would either be a lower costing NSD model or a $3-500 more plus model comparing to the average cost of these subs in the shootout. Just my guess I own SVS and HSU and am happy with both.

Ah, ok I see now. Either way it's still a great read.

SVS would get "massacred" for any of their sub $1000 offerings and anything thats better than the lineup in here from SVS costs a few hundred more.

Price is key for a lot of people.

I applaud you for the effort put forth into these tests, however the graphs posted are dominated by room modes and may give people the wrong impressions on some of these subs.

I'm also still surprised to see eD having issues with their amps. You'd figure they would have had that sorted out by now.

3/4 of the eD amps I have owned have failed, but at least they were quick to replace them.

Here's one of the more blatant QC misses:

http://i.imgur.com/bSDO5.jpg

I think we were able to divide them though by type. The DD18 and F113 sounded similar and the EP600 and PB13 had a distinct "vented" sound. The DD18 and f113 sounded very similar until the DD18 limiter kicked in on Pulse and then it was very odd and unique whereas the f113 just started to get "clanky".

My only hesitation with this shootout is that nobody knows what the THD and IMD were. If you play something with a 20hz fundamental and then the sub adds in 50% THD at 40/60hz, it will measure louder but have a pile of harmonics that shouldn't be there.

The FR question is debatable. There is a 10db swing in the 40hz section among those subs. That alone can give a huge difference in listening impressions. It could also be easily corrected with EQ. Should they have tried to match the FR? Maybe.

Hey guys, like the distinguished gentleman with whom I share a genetic addiction to bass has observed, we are just floored with the positive response. We totally were not expecting to see 4 pages of your kind regards, and we are humbled by it. We are very, very happy to hear that our labors were not in vain. We've read every single reply and we appreciate each response - and the sense of humor you guys have! We may not always respond to each post, but we do call each other and say stuff like, "did you see that post by oddiodog? "love/hate relationship with us". hilarious!" So its appreciated.

Now for a few specific comments/questions, I'll take a crack at them:


Yeah we were hoping someone would point that out, we thought it would be good to post that so folks who are just starting out can see a non-flat Frequency Response (FR) is normal.



Really? Dang I have that song but I've only ever listened to it on my Sennheiser HD202's. Guess I gotta play it on some speakers!


I'm thinking the opposed drivers might have a big hand in the bottom end extension.


Yeah sorry bout that, we didn't really notice until we watched the vids how much of our bums you could see. I promised Adam I'd edit them out even though I knew I couldn't, but he wouldn't have let me post them otherwise!


we had it at its lowest setting, which is 0.25 If I Recall Correctly (IIRC)


Even if we did wanna keep one, Adam has a different setup then me, so his choice would not be mine. Which perfectly illustrates why saying which sub we'd personally keep is just not relevant. I know, we suck.

• Onkyo TX-SR706 receiver (AVR) and Axiom M22 and M2 in-walls.
• Yeah in "Test Setup" section we mention we level matched each sub, and we did it by adjusting the gain knob on the subs and adjusting the channel levels on the AVR
• Yes, also mentioned we ran subs 10db hot for music, 5db hot for movies.

Actually, Adam's wife was upset when she found out he wasn't keeping them!


The two songs we chose put the subs through a very tough workout. Many guys have blown drivers and amps on "I Love You Bass". "Low Roads" covers higher frequencies and accuracy. If those subs can play those songs as loud as they did and sound good doing it, they can handle anything.


That is freakin hilarious!

• Yes.
• AVR pink noise. (again, we tried to utilize the subs like the average user will)
• Well, to be honest I suffered some head trauma about 6 years ago that I still suffer from, so yeah I was in a bit of pain sometimes. But honestly, I never noticed until I got home cuz we were having so much fun. My bro is the funniest dude you'd ever meet man.

So after all was said and done, did you hook up all of the subs and blow the windows out ????

God Knows I would have - even for just a brief period of stupidity

First of all, thanks for posting your efforts here, very informative.

Second of all, watching you two knot-heads uncrate those subs was well worth the price of admission alone, complete with boxer covered plumbers crack and Ethans bill-board T-shirts

I have an Empire that will ship Monday, watching your posting gives a guy a first hand view of what to expect, I already knew my sub was going to be delivered on it's own pallet via Karen @ Epik, but seeing your video made me feel like I was receiving my new sub right along with you.

I can appreciate all the positive input you gave (esp. WAF), my wife still thinks we're all crazy, in fact, I think there should be an AVS Wives Forum so our wives can have an outlet to vent to other wives and tell each other how crazy their husbands are I read to my wife the guitar string top floor bit and she just shook her head and said "you guys are all crazy"

Thanks again, your efforts were phenomenal.

Nice job, I love the video pieces as well. Thank you for all the effort!

btw I just noticed that the FV15 review is missing the "movie scene" video that the other reviews have. I assume it was just forgotten?

Ignoring the expense, this kind of thing takes a huge amount of time and effort. Thanks!

First off, I want to add my thanks to the many posters who appreciated reading this comparison review. I've been on the fence regarding which sub to purchase and reviews of all kinds are helpful. Thank you for that.

On another note: I see you posted which songs you tested on these subs, but I can't seem to determine which song is used in the intro video for the ED sub...? I just love the song and am hoping to find it...

Anyone know?

Argh. You weren't supposed to notice! What happened was my camera was recording but I thought it was stopped, so when i hit "record" to start recording the scene, I actually stopped it. Didn't notice until yesterday I had no FV15 Cloverfield footage. Doh!

Wow, you guys really hit a home run with the quality of media and "just plain folks" content. Great photography and fun videos in a herculean effort. Of these subs, the only 1 I've heard is the Empire and you pretty much nailed it. All of the subs, if played within their limits are going to sound awesome and some of those limits are pretty impressive.

Looking at your wording, I'm a little confused about your subjective conclusions. I think you were saying that you felt the Empire and 18.1 were different, but subjectively equal in SQ. Then you go on to say it's also a tossup between the Rythmik and Hsu. So, are they a subjective stepup from the sealed subs...or...are you comparing sealed subs as a group, then ported subs as a group?

I loved the Michael Jackson tribute.

Also the attempted fist bump during the intro, classic!

Hmm, I never thought of it that way, but you may be right? I would like to know that as well.

Yeah I found it interesting that the two ported subs ended up having the best SQ, usually the sealed subs tend win those battles hehe. Doesn't surprise me from the Rythmik though, just watching that cone go, you can tell there is no boominess there.

Nice work, guys. Thanks for taking the time and effort. Very commendable.

Wow, awesome friggen review! Thanks for making the entire piece readable too. No high tech babble and hooplah, just how loud it is, what it feels like, SPLs, etc. You guys really hit the ball outta the park with this one. I have the 18.1 and I agree with the fact that it totally kicks ass! I have one of the first ones ever sold and the finish on mine is actually quite good. They seem to vary from sub to sub. Awesome work!

P.S. I can't wait for your 1700 dollar and up 5-way sub shootout. Maybe SVS PB13-Ultra, DTS-10, ULS-Dual Drive, A7s-650, etc.

Hey guys.... >5K views in arround 24 hrs? I think thats better than what others claim.

Wondering this also.

I don't see the point to this shootout at all unless the point was that for about $1000 you can get a crap load of SPL these days from ID sub manufactures. I realize you're not professionals and these things take a lot of time, but basically you did what exactly? Take max SPL ratings in room of 5 different subwoofers on a variety of source material with a tiny bit of subjective listening and comment on the percieved build quality?

Subwoofers don't sound the same. They sound similar, but different. I applaud your effort but more time spend describing your subjective feelings would have gone a long way for me. For example - I like how you mention the mid bass slam of the CS18.1. What else set these subwoofers apart other than a few SPL here and there? Maybe I need to read more carefully (I've only read it twice.)

when is YOUR subwoofer shootout going to be posted, MUCHO?

Great job, great info. Alot of work but I bet it was fun.

good effort and enjoyed the read, but I really didn't get much out of the review other then spl readings from a technical aspect...tho, the description of the actual sub was very good...and also liked how we could see them packaged...one looked like it wasn't packaged well...however, your personal tastes of how it sounds is very SUBJECTIVE. Still, very fun to read and watch.

I heard someone say they wish they saw this review before they bought the Epic...nut sure why?

Can you find what they put together for you somewhere else? If you want to know the subjective sound quality, spend a little time going through each manufacture's thread...

Shh MUCHO is still trying to understand what he read 3 times!

Or ---- Tell him to buy all these subs his-self and do the comparison in his own room, don't forget to suggest to him that he should take the time to make videos, take pics and post all the graphs as well as his listening impressions when he's finished...


Some people just want others to tell them which direction to go, so they don't have to lift a finger or open their wallet or use their own brains whatsoever !!!!!

Good effort guys.

One thing I wanted to note. When using the rat shack meters with the generic correction values your response graphs are ok because they are all comparable. How was the Spl recorded for the music and movie scenes? I presume you recorded it directly off of the meter? In that case you cannot add the correction values due to the complex waveform being reproduced. Some of the tracks that you used contain very powerful sub 25hz bass. The subs that have greater extension and low bass output will get shortchanged on the total spl because the meter will be registering the output above 35hz predominantly for the reading. Just something to think about next time.

Btw its "Bass I love you" not "I love you bass"!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........you've got to be kidding?????


Thank you Mr. Wizard


Hey, are you talking about me again?/? jk