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My Mahogany / Invisible Speaker build - Page 4

post #91 of 385
Looking good.

Why the hand planes and not a jointer for the edges? Just curious.
post #92 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Thanks! Yes, it does, but I take no credit for the design -- the plans are from Norm Abrams (of This Old House and New Yankee Workshop).

I still miss New Yankee Workshop. Thank you for the explanation. That was what I was looking for.

My friend actually has the full set digital loaded into his mediabrowser and XBMC- all organized with album art and meta data. I'm jealous.
post #93 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Looking good.

Why the hand planes and not a jointer for the edges? Just curious.

Good question. A light pass on the jointer would work, but I like the silky smooth surface that a plane leaves.
post #94 of 385
I am looking forward to your next update and pics!
post #95 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am looking forward to your next update and pics!

Thanks, here you go... smile.gif

I started work on the next tall cabinet, the one which will house the equipment rack, to the left of TV. It's about 27" wide and 24" deep. First was to cut dadoes near the bottom of each side, which will support the shelf:


Then more pocket screw joinery -- this is a cleat along the top back of the cabinet:



Here's the cabinet initially assembled with the top cleat and the lower shelf:



If you recall the design, this cabinet has an arched detail on a wide lower rail on the face frame:



I thought the easiest way to mark this detail is to cut a half circle with the 10" radius, which I did on my bandsaw:



Then I just traced the curve onto the rail piece, cut it on the bandsaw, leaving the line, then sanded it smooth to the line:



Ease the corners with a portion of a 1/4" roundover bit in the router table:



Finally, here's the cabinet as it sits, the face frame dry fitted onto the carcase; I'll try to get this attached tomorrow:



And another view from the top of the cabinet. The pieces behind the face frame will contain the front of the rack:
post #96 of 385
Looking good! Thanks for update. I want to do a theater with some of the design elements you are doing so I'm very interested in your progress and results.

I want you to know you made me go and buy this on eBay:
http://payments.mobileweb.ebay.com/pay?cmd=ORDER_DETAILS_MY_EBAY&itemId=370802207423&nFB=true&trxId=490839907024

I was going to buy cabinet doors for my basement but after watching you I think I'll give it a shot.
post #97 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Looking good! Thanks for update. I want to do a theater with some of the design elements you are doing so I'm very interested in your progress and results.

I want you to know you made me go and buy this on eBay:
http://payments.mobileweb.ebay.com/pay?cmd=ORDER_DETAILS_MY_EBAY&itemId=370802207423&nFB=true&trxId=490839907024

I was going to buy cabinet doors for my basement but after watching you I think I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for sharing the link but I couldn't get it to work (might need to be logged into your ebay.) What'd you get??
post #98 of 385
I think it was this

Looking good. You have some great looking tools. Very jealous. Do you do woodworking professionally, or just a hobby?
post #99 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I think it was this

Looking good. You have some great looking tools. Very jealous. Do you do woodworking professionally, or just a hobby?

Yes. That was it ^

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370802207423?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D370802207423%26_rdc%3D1

Woodworking professionally ? ME ? LOL! I am a PC nerd and I work in the energy sector.

I'm definitely not a wood worker or handy builder type person. I am regarded as the nerd in my circle and family. But watching Norm on Yankee workshop, a couple YouTube videos, and the results from Cowger's posts above doing the raised panel it seems pretty doable.

My brother and dad are much heavier into this stuff so I have been exposed to it all my life. I've just never bothered with it or needed until now myself. Growing up it seemed my home was always under construction, I helped my dad do a lot of stuff. Probably more than average. I have access to his tools and my brothers and I own a decent amount myself. A quality router, Band saw, Belt Sander, Jig saw, Miter saw, table saw, etc... We have a drywall lift, Brad nailers, and just about every tool you can imagine. That's should be the easy part. I just bought the $50 kit on ebay because it looked cheap enough to play with. I am going to give it shot.

I'd like to get decent at this and really get rolling on my theater after. I love Cowgers and Mario's wood working and I'd like to blend them into my own creation.

Right now I am torn about using cheaper wood or materials like MFG or other wood and just painting it like Mario (probably black) or going with a nice stained wood like Mr Pointdexter, Cowger, and Sandman (even though his was laminated on) I think the nice stained wood is classier and more elegant- but it take way more work. I'm ok with finishing it 50 times with different coats and sanding to make it perfect, or blending stains.

I like brown but I also like the red. I think I would end up somewhere in between but who knows ??

Right now I am leaning towards a purple blue or a Navy blue color as my scheme but I am not sure how that works with stained wood versus black paint. So I will need to play around some more.

I love the look of Cowgers wood and his theater. That's why I'm following along and interested in his progress. I think his wood looks awesome! I just wonder how it would go with a blue-purple ???



The only one I have seen like I am thinking and it's not exactly close is Mr. Pointdexters:






I can't tell if the Navy of his and the wood working is effected by the light or the flash though. I like Sandman's Red wood finish but it's too red for me. I do like a cherry but not an extreme RED. I love Cowgers wood too. So I'll need to figure out first if I want to take the extra effort to finish the wood versus just painting it- which is easier to paint and I can use cheaper wood like MDF and plywood and Pine in many areas. Or- If I want the hassle of finishing the wood and making something really awesome- and then in that case do I do dark brown, medium, light, Brown/Red ??? The color of the stain would need to look awesome and also work with the colors I choose. I am certain I want a black/charcoal type carpet and I will have black leather chairs. The color scheme otherwise is undecided.

I also want a nice bar in the back like many here and that is also why I am envious and interested in Cowgers build. It looks like it's going to be really nice- and I'd love to do something like that for my bar area too. His wood working skills are admirable too.
post #100 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I think it was this

Looking good. You have some great looking tools. Very jealous. Do you do woodworking professionally, or just a hobby?

Thanks. Not sure if your question was posed to me or Mfusick, but woodworking for me is just a hobby. I've probably spent more money on tools than I've saved through the DIY process, but it's one of my joys in life...
post #101 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Right now I am leaning towards a purple blue or a Navy blue color as my scheme but I am not sure how that works with stained wood versus black paint. So I will need to play around some more.

I love the look of Cowgers wood and his theater. That's why I'm following along and interested in his progress. I think his wood looks awesome! I just wonder how it would go with a blue-purple ???

Thanks. My personal opinion is that the wood tone I ended up with would go with virtually any color you choose to accent your theater with. Seems pretty accommodating to me...
post #102 of 385
Just looking at your plans again....do you plan to make the three upper cabinets as a single unit? Seems logical to me. Same question for some of the joined / abutted base cabinets.

Very jealous for your wood shop. Unfortunately for me I don't have the room for a dedicated shop and probably would have little use for it beyond my theater at this point. But I'll still be coveting your setup! biggrin.gif
post #103 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Just looking at your plans again....do you plan to make the three upper cabinets as a single unit? Seems logical to me. Same question for some of the joined / abutted base cabinets.

Good question on that upper cabinet, and one that I hadn't fully answered to myself just yet. I think it could possibly work by building them as two independent cabinets and then spanning the distance between them with shelving (that middle section is just open shelves), but I also want to have the crown span across them on top of a nice even face frame. So in the end, I'll probably build them as one unit.

Stay tuned on the rest of the cabinets as I figure out the details. At this point I'm thinking:

- 2 cabinets beneath the rear work counter (that forms an "L")
- 1 cabinet that houses the twin kegerators and then turns the 45 degree corner
- 1 cabinet from there out to the end of the bar

- 3 tall cabinets
- 1 upper cabinet

So just 8 cabinets total. How long can that take, right? wink.gif
post #104 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

- 1 cabinet that houses the twin kegerators and then turns the 45 degree corner
Sounds like a big cabinet. It'll fit through the door, right?
post #105 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Sounds like a big cabinet. It'll fit through the door, right?

Certainly an important point! I have a 30" door from the outside to downstairs; at this point, that cabinet is only about 28" wide and I believe I'll be able to work it in around the small 45 degree bend. I'll be more certain once I finalize the specifics of that cabinet. (I also have other paths to downstairs, like through the front door and then down the stairs, but hopefully that won't be needed...)
post #106 of 385
You could assemble it in the room too if needed.
post #107 of 385
Thread Starter 
Got that face frame attached this evening. But first I needed to do a bit of fine tuning of one of the joints. Here's the pencil line I needed to scribe to:


Using a chisel, I trimmed that down, as needed, and also slightly back-beveled it, as only the near corner makes contact with the other piece.

It always amazes me how easy it is to pare even crossgrain wood with a truly sharp tool. Very satisfying!


Then I was able to get the face frame glued and screwed (and sometimes nailed) on. Here's from the bottom of the cabinet:



And from the top, you can see the special Kreg tool that pulls the face frame tight to the cabinet before a pocket screw goes in.

I basically just move one pocket ahead with the tool and then follow with a screw, repeating that one hole at a time. You can also see the spacer I used to ensure that the overhang of that beveled face frame remained even from bottom to top.

Where you want the edge of a face frame to meet up perfectly with a side, I think it's easier if you create a slight overhang of the face frame, then come along with a trim bit and bring them both perfectly flush. Kind of cheating, but the results justify it.... smile.gif


Finally, the nearly completed cabinet standing next to its eventual (and also nearly completed) neighbor:


And the roughly equivalent view from the model, just for fun:
post #108 of 385
Fantastic work as usual!!!
post #109 of 385
Thread Starter 
Not a lot of progress, since I've been away from home too much here, but did manage to play around with the door & frame/panel design some more. You might recall that I started with a simple prototype of a door, just based on the router bit set I purchased -- that's on the left below:



That design is pretty simple and straight forward, and is very close to matching what we have in the kitchen upstairs. But as I mentioned previously, I wanted to see if I could kick that up a notch for this downstairs bar, specifically by adding some applied molding to increase the level of detail on the doors / panels and add depth and dimension.

So I ordered a set of molding knives that I hoped would look good:


To accommodate the applied profile, I made another sample door out of pine, but with the stiles/rails an extra inch wider. Then I tacked on the molding to see how it looked, which is the door on the right, above. And below is another shot that better shows that molding's shape and effect:



Yeah, I wasn't very happy with that look, either. So I got to thinking about what I was trying to do, which is to continue the effect of the ogee profile of the frame and add onto that. So it finally occurred to me to just use that same router bit to create the applied molding. I milled out some 1/4" stock and ran that under the lower cutter of that router bit:



That resulted in a less dramatic profile but one that I think better fits:



And the prototype door.

We're happy with it so this is what I'll be doing for the frames / panels on the next cabinet I'll be building...
post #110 of 385
Dude that looks awesome !!!

I am about to go start making some myself. Wish me luck! Thanks for the share and showing me it's possible.
post #111 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Dude that looks awesome !!!

I am about to go start making some myself. Wish me luck! Thanks for the share and showing me it's possible.

Thanks!! Hopefully the design will look even better in Mahogany... smile.gif

Good luck! Let me know if you have a build thread going, would love to follow!
post #112 of 385
Waiting on the mortgage and should close by the 15th. Once the money is in our account I will do a start of project thread. I'm superstitious I will jinx it if I act too soon.

We are doing a remodel as part of build, I work full time in sales without construction background so I will have a lot on my plate. I promised wife her closet and bathroom will take priority. We are tearing the whole roof off and making our cape style house have full second floor with 12 extension off the back + garage. In order to save the money to afford my theater ill be doing a lot of the work myself with my dad.

It will be a slow 12 month project but I'm going to try to do it right.

I need cabinet doors in basement so I'm attempting to copy you and practice. If it works well I might steal the idea for the bottom of my walls in theater and columns.

Why did you choose mahogany ? Is it tougher on the router bits than pine ? How's it compare to MDF ? ( not asking about looks, asking how tough wood is on the bits and ease of routing )

How many passes does it take for the center pieces ? How do you know when it's enough ? Just test it after each pass?
post #113 of 385
Big Jim keeps her down under.
post #114 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Why did you choose mahogany ? Is it tougher on the router bits than pine ? How's it compare to MDF ? ( not asking about looks, asking how tough wood is on the bits and ease of routing )

How many passes does it take for the center pieces ? How do you know when it's enough ? Just test it after each pass?

Awesome, will be looking forward to following.

Why Mahogany? That decision was made years ago when I started trimming out the downstairs and eventually built the HT. I like the wood and view it as a fairly traditional species to be used for interior fine millwork. Other options would perhaps have been Walnut or Cherry. All are great woods to work with, and none seem to be particularly hard on tools.

MDF is not real wood, as you probably know, but rather pressed-together sawdust. It machines and mills nicely, due to its homogenous nature, but if you cut into the interior (like for a raised panel), I doubt you will be happy with the result. The two flat surfaces of MDF are great and paint up perfectly, but the interior is much softer and would be very difficult to achieve a good look, even painted. I think all you're asking is how things mill, though, so I would say it's similar. Machining MDF generates a lot of very fine dust, however, so I would recommend a respirator when doing so.

Raising the panels probably takes 4-6 passes. Lighter passes (i.e. less material) are always better and reduce the stress on your bits and router. Spinning that big panel raising bit takes a big router. You might also want to look at what they call vertical panel raising bits -- much smaller and easier for a smaller router (or router table) to accommodate.

To determine the final thickness, you're just trying to match the width of the groove that the other bit in the set creates. One way would be to just sneak up on it, using small adjustments at a time until you get the fit you're seeking. Another way is to use calipers to measure the thickness of the panel, measure the thickness of the groove, subtract the two, and raise the bit that final distance once you're close. I have a digital readout on my router table for the height, which makes that easy, but you could also use the calipers to do the same. A cheap set of digital calipers at Harbor Freight should make your life easier! smile.gif
post #115 of 385
How much do you think you spent on wood for your theater? How expensive was your mahogany ?
post #116 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

How much do you think you spent on wood for your theater? How expensive was your mahogany ?

Ugh, that's always a good but ugly question... smile.gif

I honestly don't know. Many trips to the local hardwood supplier for yet more wood... Locally, 4x8 sheets of Mahogany plywood run $70-80, and I probably used 12-15 of those. Maybe another $1200-1500 in hardwood. All the crown molding was ridiculously expensive that I unfortunately bought that before I purchased my own molding machine...

If you're contemplating finished wood versus painted, it's certainly going to be a significant difference. Painted might be half that of hardwood, but that's a complete guess.

HTH,
Bryan
post #117 of 385
That is the issue I am having. My budget is limited.

I like the look of wood. It has class, and craftsmanship and elegance. It looks expensive, sometimes because it is.

If it was just as easy, and just as affordable I'd choose the wood in two seconds without a second thought. But it's not the case. So then I need to weight the extra cost I probably can't afford, and also the amount of extra work it takes. It's much harder to get wood stained and finished and looking perfect. You need to use good stock, spend extra attention to details. Paint just covers lots of stuff that might otherwise get exposed- allowing you to buy cheaper wood, and do crappier work.

I'm debating the challenge, but I think I want to do it. Your theater looks amazing. I would probably do fabric panels on the top half of the walls for sound treatment reasons, but I would love to get that nice wood look in the bottom, the trim, and the columns. Your build is a motivating factor to make me consider hard going the nice wood route. Some of even the nicer theater builds I've seen lack a little something with simple painted trim in matters of class or elegance. The trouble is if you do it poor- the wood looks bad and your screwed. Again, paint can be repainted another color. You can go back and re-stain another color or go darker or lighter mad.gif In the end I'll need to save the decision until I have a room with HVAC, Sheetrock, riser, stage, all completed and I move into the next stage of the build. I'll need to evaluate the effort and skill required and the budget and make the decision then. For now- I'm practicing on other areas of the house trying to get ready.

I'm going to copy your raised panel cabinet door this weekend if I get my subwoofer boxes built. Anxious to try my new router bits. Problem is I can't find the router table mad.gif Last time I used it was to do the panels in my drop ceiling for the basement with a rabbiting bit so the trimmed pieces dropped down into the non standard sized areas. Then my dad took it (with router still attached), then my brother borrowed the router and claims he does not have the router table. WTF! How do you lose a router table ? I might just go buy another one eek.gif Anything important to look for if I did ? Mine now is pretty basic one and 15 years old. I am not up to snuff with modern advances. You seem like a guy who might have good advice. biggrin.gif Your gear looks nice tongue.gif
post #118 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Then my dad took it (with router still attached), then my brother borrowed the router and claims he does not have the router table. WTF! How do you lose a router table ? I might just go buy another one eek.gif Anything important to look for if I did ? Mine now is pretty basic one and 15 years old. I am not up to snuff with modern advances. You seem like a guy who might have good advice. biggrin.gif Your gear looks nice tongue.gif

Funny story, though it's a bummer to have lost your table... Not much to add in terms of what to replace it with. There are a number of options from various manufacturers. For a more economical alternative, you might consider just buying a good router table plate that you then mount into your own top -- make that out of a couple of sheets of MDF and you'll have a nice, solid top that you can mount somewhere in your work area or build a simple stand for. Lots of plans out on the web, I imagine. Same options for a fence -- you can make your own pretty easily as long as it's nice and straight and sits at 90 degrees to the table.

If you're spinning a big 3"+ panel raising bit, you'd want to a) have a router you can slow down to ~15k' rpm and 2) ensure you have a large enough opening in your router plate to fit it. However, there is a way to get around this latter issue if your plate isn't large enough -- attach a piece of plywood on top of your table with a cutout that allows the bit to still be buried even though it sits above your plate. I just saw this trick and thought it was a good one...
Edited by cowger - 7/20/13 at 5:34pm
post #119 of 385
Thanks for great advice. I'm leaning towards making a fold up bigger router table that I can use on saw horses and break down for storage.

I'm just having issue paying more for just a top than a whole bench with router. I was thinking that if I was going to take the extra time and effort to build my own base then a simple top should be cheaper. Looks like I was wrong.

I'll have to keep researching.

I'd like to make a table myself that's bigger and more PRO style, but have a countertop piece that supports a high fence, the extras, and also struggling with router mounting. I'd like a mount plate system that's fairly easy to adjust the height of the bit.
post #120 of 385
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'd like to make a table myself that's bigger and more PRO style, but have a countertop piece that supports a high fence, the extras, and also struggling with router mounting. I'd like a mount plate system that's fairly easy to adjust the height of the bit.

If you can swing it, Jessem makes some great stuff. Their top of the line router plate, which they call the Mast-R-Lift II, runs about $350. Not cheap, but if you can spend the money on that and a good router motor and build the rest yourself, I think you'd end up with a lifetime's worth of great routing experience.

Kreg is another to maybe check out, though I don't know their stuff as well.
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