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intermittent signal loss - no idea why!

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I have been experiencing some intermittent HDMI signal loss with my XBox 360 when running it through my Integra receiver. First, here is my setup:

Samsung LN52B750 52-Inch 1080p 240Hz LCD HDTV
Integra DTR-4.9 A/V Receiver (3 HDMI inputs, 1 output)
XBox 360 (HDMI enabled)
AT&T U-Verse cable box
Toshiba DVD player/recorder
All controlled using a Logitech Harmony 880 remote
no splitters, extenders, or anything else out of the ordinary

The XBox, cable, and DVD player are using all 3 HDMI inputs on the Integra receiver, which acts as the HDMI switch and outputs to the TV.

For a long time (couple years?), I had no problems with my system, everything worked great. In the past couple months, my XBox 360 started acting weird, in two ways:

1. when it first started, the problem was that I couldn't get an HDMI signal if I attempted to start everything up "cold" - meaning, everything was off at first, and I tried turning on the TV, receiver, and XBox together. When I tried to do this, I got a "no signal" message on the TV screen. This was weird, because starting the system up "cold" to watch cable worked fine. After some trial and error, I found that the only way I could consistently get around this problem was to "warm up" the system by watching cable TV. I would have to first turn on the system to watch cable TV (using my AT&T box), watch for around 10-15 minutes, THEN turn on the XBox 360 and switch the receiver to the appropriate HDMI input. Note that I only experienced such a problem with the XBox 360, both the AT&T Uverse cable and the Toshiba DVD recorder worked fine. Anyway, this workaround seemed to do the trick, for a little while...then I started experiencing problem #2.

2. After a while, the problem got worse - on top of having to "warm up" the system, now even after I "warm it up" and get the Xbox 360 working, the signal intermittently drops in and out. Meaning, both video and audio work fine for a while, but randomly it will go blank/silent, usually for 1-2 seconds. This may happen every 15-20 seconds, or it may go a few minutes without doing it - there is no distinct pattern that I can tell. But without fail, the signal does go in and out.

This originally made me think there was a problem with the receiver - it was almost as if I had to "warm it up" before it would recognize the HDMI signal from the Xbox. Because it was only happening with the XBox, I wanted to see if it was a problem with that specific HDMI input port. So I played around and tried switching the HDMI cable to use different inputs on the receiver, but I got the same results with all of them.

Next I thought it may be the HDMI cable. I tried switching it out, and still no luck. At this point, I assumed I had eliminated the receiver and the HDMI cables as culprits, so I figured it must be the XBox 360 itself...but I seem to be wrong. As a final test, I decided to bypass the receiver altogether and connect the XBox 360 directly to the TV via the HDMI cable...and much to my surprise, the problem disappeared!

SO - I'm wondering if any home theater experts out there may be able to give me some kind of hint as to what the heck the problem could be?!?!? Or, are there any other tests I can try to find out what the problem is? As I said before, everything worked fine for a few years - so I'm assuming one of the components isn't working properly anymore. But which is it? the XBox or the receiver?

Thanks in advance to anybody who can offer me any helpful advice...I'm completely baffled.

Larry
post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrydoong View Post

I have been experiencing some intermittent HDMI signal loss with my XBox 360 when running it through my Integra receiver. First, here is my setup:

Samsung LN52B750 52-Inch 1080p 240Hz LCD HDTV
Integra DTR-4.9 A/V Receiver (3 HDMI inputs, 1 output)
XBox 360 (HDMI enabled)
AT&T U-Verse cable box
Toshiba DVD player/recorder
All controlled using a Logitech Harmony 880 remote
no splitters, extenders, or anything else out of the ordinary

The XBox, cable, and DVD player are using all 3 HDMI inputs on the Integra receiver, which acts as the HDMI switch and outputs to the TV.

For a long time (couple years?), I had no problems with my system, everything worked great. In the past couple months, my XBox 360 started acting weird, in two ways:

1. when it first started, the problem was that I couldn't get an HDMI signal if I attempted to start everything up "cold" - meaning, everything was off at first, and I tried turning on the TV, receiver, and XBox together. When I tried to do this, I got a "no signal" message on the TV screen. This was weird, because starting the system up "cold" to watch cable worked fine. After some trial and error, I found that the only way I could consistently get around this problem was to "warm up" the system by watching cable TV. I would have to first turn on the system to watch cable TV (using my AT&T box), watch for around 10-15 minutes, THEN turn on the XBox 360 and switch the receiver to the appropriate HDMI input. Note that I only experienced such a problem with the XBox 360, both the AT&T Uverse cable and the Toshiba DVD recorder worked fine. Anyway, this workaround seemed to do the trick, for a little while...then I started experiencing problem #2.

2. After a while, the problem got worse - on top of having to "warm up" the system, now even after I "warm it up" and get the Xbox 360 working, the signal intermittently drops in and out. Meaning, both video and audio work fine for a while, but randomly it will go blank/silent, usually for 1-2 seconds. This may happen every 15-20 seconds, or it may go a few minutes without doing it - there is no distinct pattern that I can tell. But without fail, the signal does go in and out.

This originally made me think there was a problem with the receiver - it was almost as if I had to "warm it up" before it would recognize the HDMI signal from the Xbox. Because it was only happening with the XBox, I wanted to see if it was a problem with that specific HDMI input port. So I played around and tried switching the HDMI cable to use different inputs on the receiver, but I got the same results with all of them.

Next I thought it may be the HDMI cable. I tried switching it out, and still no luck. At this point, I assumed I had eliminated the receiver and the HDMI cables as culprits, so I figured it must be the XBox 360 itself...but I seem to be wrong. As a final test, I decided to bypass the receiver altogether and connect the XBox 360 directly to the TV via the HDMI cable...and much to my surprise, the problem disappeared!

SO - I'm wondering if any home theater experts out there may be able to give me some kind of hint as to what the heck the problem could be?!?!? Or, are there any other tests I can try to find out what the problem is? As I said before, everything worked fine for a few years - so I'm assuming one of the components isn't working properly anymore. But which is it? the XBox or the receiver?

Thanks in advance to anybody who can offer me any helpful advice...I'm completely baffled.

Larry

Deleted by author
post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

How far apart are the components? What type of HDMI cables? Anything in the setup outputting 1080p?

Hi Andy, thanks for the followup questions. I'll do my best to answer them, sorry if I am not using the proper terms, I'm not exactly a A/V expert or technophile, but here goes:

1. the components are all in a cluster in an A/V cabinet. they are connected using HDMI cables that are 6' long.
2. I have HDMI cables of a couple different brands. One is a Mediabridge brand cable, and it has "Style 20276 80o C 30V VW1 1.3b Cat 2 HDMI" printed on the side. The other one is a Molex cable, that has "Style 20276 80o C 30V VW1" printed on it, but not anything about the HDMI version or category.
3. as for which components output 1080p - I previously assumed my XBox 360 Premium was outputting 1080p since it's using HDMI, but apparently that may not be true? I tried looking it up but couldn't find a definitive answer. Everything seems to say supports "UP TO 1080p" but that doesn't tell me WHAT the output actually IS. Is there any way to determine if my Xbox or AT&T Cable is outputting 1080p or not?

Thanks again for the help, this is much-needed education for me.

Larry
post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrydoong View Post

Hi Andy, thanks for the followup questions. I'll do my best to answer them, sorry if I am not using the proper terms, I'm not exactly a A/V expert or technophile, but here goes:

1. the components are all in a cluster in an A/V cabinet. they are connected using HDMI cables that are 6' long.
2. I have HDMI cables of a couple different brands. One is a Mediabridge brand cable, and it has "Style 20276 80o C 30V VW1 1.3b Cat 2 HDMI" printed on the side. The other one is a Molex cable, that has "Style 20276 80o C 30V VW1" printed on it, but not anything about the HDMI version or category.
3. as for which components output 1080p - I previously assumed my XBox 360 Premium was outputting 1080p since it's using HDMI, but apparently that may not be true? I tried looking it up but couldn't find a definitive answer. Everything seems to say supports "UP TO 1080p" but that doesn't tell me WHAT the output actually IS. Is there any way to determine if my Xbox or AT&T Cable is outputting 1080p or not?

Thanks again for the help, this is much-needed education for me.

Larry

Deleted by author
post #5 of 10
You can go the the Xbox 360 System Settings, then Console Settings, then Display and see what it is set to, and change it to 1080p if needed.

On my setup which is a Mitsubishi WD-82838 DLP HDTV connected to an Onkyo TX-NR5008 which is then connected to an HDMI auto-switch and then finally to the Xbox 360. You can turn on everything but leave the Xbox 360 OFF until the receiver and tv have synced up, then power on the Xbox 360.

I have gone through 5 Mitsubishi DLP HDTVs, both Denon and Onkyo receivers, and it has always been the same, the Xbox has to stay off until everything else HDMI has synched up, or you will get a low resolution/distorted Xbox display, or no Xbox display at all. I have two of the exact same TV/Receiver/Xbox setups both upstairs and downstairs, and both are exactly the same with having to leave the Xbox off until everything else has synched up. This has been tested with the old/original white Xbox 360s, the old black Elites and now the new slim Xbox 360s, all have to stay off until everything else is synched up.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Apologies for the late reply - I hope that's not why Andy (alk3997) removed the content of his previous questions/posts? Anyway, I finally had a chance to poke around my system components a bit more, and found the following:

- the XBox 360 was already set to output 1080p
- the AT&T Cable box is outputting 1080i (no option for 1080p).
- the Toshiba DVD player can output 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

And while I was poking around I found that I started having problems with the Toshiba once I modified the output to 1080p. So, overtkill, it sounds like you have had similar issues, and you say they are related to the HDMI components needing to be synced up. Based on your feedback, I will play around with my system a little bit and see if I can configure things so that all 1080p devices start on a slight delay, to give time for the receiver and TV to complete the HDMI "handshake." I'll update this post with any findings. In the meanwhile, if anybody else has other suggestions or input, I'd love to hear them...

One other thing that baffles me - why did my XBox 360 work fine for so long? As I mentioned before, it worked perfectly fine for a year or two, then recently it started acting up (with no configuration changes). That's what led me to initially believe that something was broken.

And as always, thanks to everybody for the help.
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrydoong View Post

Apologies for the late reply - I hope that's not why Andy (alk3997) removed the content of his previous questions/posts? Anyway, I finally had a chance to poke around my system components a bit more, and found the following:

- the XBox 360 was already set to output 1080p
- the AT&T Cable box is outputting 1080i (no option for 1080p).
- the Toshiba DVD player can output 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

And while I was poking around I found that I started having problems with the Toshiba once I modified the output to 1080p. So, overtkill, it sounds like you have had similar issues, and you say they are related to the HDMI components needing to be synced up. Based on your feedback, I will play around with my system a little bit and see if I can configure things so that all 1080p devices start on a slight delay, to give time for the receiver and TV to complete the HDMI "handshake." I'll update this post with any findings. In the meanwhile, if anybody else has other suggestions or input, I'd love to hear them...

One other thing that baffles me - why did my XBox 360 work fine for so long? As I mentioned before, it worked perfectly fine for a year or two, then recently it started acting up (with no configuration changes). That's what led me to initially believe that something was broken.

And as always, thanks to everybody for the help.

BTW, I just did a google search for "HDMI handshake solution" and this AVS thread came up as the first result - may be relevant info for anybody else experiencing similar problems.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1096050
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrydoong View Post
Apologies for the late reply - I hope that's not why Andy (alk3997) removed the content of his previous questions/posts?
No - disagreement with the AVS overlords over changing the rules and not telling anyone and for treating customers like dirt (my personal opinion only). So, I've deleted almost all of my appends from the past two years.

You might think that if you spent over $7K with them in one month, that before deleting your appends for unknown rule "violations" that they would actually send you an explanation. However, that repeatedly did not happen, so I choose to no longer help them by adding information to the AVS Forum.

I'll have to find another place to explain HDMI and help.

And, yes, I'll probably delete this too after a few days (or it will be deleted for me without any explanation).
post #9 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

No - disagreement with the AVS overlords over changing the rules and not telling anyone and for treating customers like dirt (my personal opinion only). So, I've deleted almost all of my appends from the past two years.

You might think that if you spent over $7K with them in one month, that before deleting your appends for unknown rule "violations" that they would actually send you an explanation. However, that repeatedly did not happen, so I choose to no longer help them by adding information to the AVS Forum.

I'll have to find another place to explain HDMI and help.

And, yes, I'll probably delete this too after a few days (or it will be deleted for me without any explanation).

whatever happens, thanks for replying to my threads and trying to help.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
After poking around on the internet more, I found the following advice (haven't had the chance to try it yet, but it seems to have fixed a similar problem for somebody else, so I figured I'd post it)

"I bought a Harmony remote control. I programmed a very particular startup sequence. I keep all of my components off. I start the satellite receiver up first. I add a 2 second delay. I then start the 805 up. Another 2 second delay. I turn the TV on last." You can read the entire thread at: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=150559
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