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8x 18" LMS Ultra 5400s in 4 sealed enclosures - Page 17

post #481 of 517
3/20/12 at 3:12am
Ok, how about now? The upgradeitus bug starting to nibble?

Hey, so how how are the LG Clones holding up? I've studied this build and your LG thread and I'm pretty confident I would like to do something similar when I have my home built here in the near future. When I first read that you were looking at four of the LG FP140000 I though $6K+ for a single amp was a bit steep, but the clones that you are currently running would be right up my alley! Just want to check to see if they have given you any other issues since purchase.

Looking through all of your posts it appears as though your currently limited by your home electrical system if you got some crazy itch to upgrade again... Is that a fair assessment? If it's cool I'd like to PM you for your thoughts on what I would need to future proof my HT electrical system. I don't want to muddy up your thread anymore than I have too...

Thanks.
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post #482 of 517
3/20/12 at 4:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Ok, how about now? The upgradeitus bug starting to nibble?

Hey, so how how are the LG Clones holding up? I've studied this build and your LG thread and I'm pretty confident I would like to do something similar when I have my home built here in the near future. When I first read that you were looking at four of the LG FP140000 I though $6K+ for a single amp was a bit steep, but the clones that you are currently running would be right up my alley! Just want to check to see if they have given you any other issues since purchase.

Looking through all of your posts it appears as though your currently limited by your home electrical system if you got some crazy itch to upgrade again... Is that a fair assessment? If it's cool I'd like to PM you for your thoughts on what I would need to future proof my HT electrical system. I don't want to muddy up your thread anymore than I have too...

Thanks.

I have 120amps of power run to my screen wall. I don't think I'd really call that limited. The only real limit now is how much you can physically handle. The amps are holding up still. Denon released a hardware/firmware upgrade for my receiver to support XT32 and some other stuff, which I just had completed. After a long night, my system is finally EQ'd again.

This is the final result. You can ignore the falloff from 8k as the mic I was using to measure isn't the greatest in that range, but super quick for me to setup. There's also a room mode around 80hz where I measured apparently.


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post #483 of 517
3/20/12 at 7:29am
dang Not, that is great, what are your thoughts on xt32 so far? are you using anything else to eq above your LF signal?
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post #484 of 517
3/20/12 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I have 120amps of power run to my screen wall. I don't think I'd really call that limited. The only real limit now is how much you can physically handle. The amps are holding up still. Denon released a hardware/firmware upgrade for my receiver to support XT32 and some other stuff, which I just had completed. After a long night, my system is finally EQ'd again.

This is the final result. You can ignore the falloff from 8k as the mic I was using to measure isn't the greatest in that range, but super quick for me to setup. There's also a room mode around 80hz where I measured apparently.



What is the smoothing used?
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post #485 of 517
3/20/12 at 10:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What is the smoothing used?

That's 1/3rd.

This is my unsmoothed LF response. Blue is just MiniDSP, Red is MiniDSP + XT32. The dip is only there at that one position


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post #486 of 517
3/20/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post


That's 1/3rd.

This is my unsmoothed LF response. Blue is just MiniDSP, Red is MiniDSP + XT32. The dip is only there at that one position

I understand. I smooth for the highs as well just to EQ them flat as possible.
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post #487 of 517
3/20/12 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

dang Not, that is great, what are your thoughts on xt32 so far? are you using anything else to eq above your LF signal?

Thought you might have missed my post ^^^
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post #488 of 517
3/20/12 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I have 120amps of power run to my screen wall. I don't think I'd really call that limited. The only real limit now is how much you can physically handle. The amps are holding up still. Denon released a hardware/firmware upgrade for my receiver to support XT32 and some other stuff, which I just had completed. After a long night, my system is finally EQ'd again.

Thanks for the new signature block.

I'm looking forward to one day having a system limited by what I or my guest can physically handle... Glad to hear your amps are working without problems. Did I read in a previous post that each amp had a dedicated 20a or 30a breaker? Just trying to get a feel what I need built in to my next HT room from the inital construction phase...
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post #489 of 517
3/20/12 at 12:22pm
Your system is just sick! I've always wondered one thing. Since you obviously appreciate the inherent beauty of a huge woofer cabinet, have you ever considered horn loading two or even four of your 18"s for ULF and using the other four for the 20Hz to 80Hz range? Looks like you've got plenty of room. Is that a stupid question?
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post #490 of 517
3/20/12 at 12:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Thanks for the new signature block.

I'm looking forward to one day having a system limited by what I or my guest can physically handle... Glad to hear your amps are working without problems. Did I read in a previous post that each amp had a dedicated 20a or 30a breaker? Just trying to get a feel what I need built in to my next HT room from the inital construction phase...

30a circuits for each amp. 20 would be fine as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

Your system is just sick! I've always wondered one thing. Since you obviously appreciate the inherent beauty of a huge woofer cabinet, have you ever considered horn loading two or even four of your 18"s for ULF and using the other four for the 20Hz to 80Hz range? Looks like you've got plenty of room. Is that a stupid question?

horn loading is not useful for below 20hz. The only way to reach down that low is to use sealed cabinets. Horns would work better for 20-80hz, but then you're mixing sub types and run into phase issues. I have the headroom with my sealed setup, so no need to compromise on sound quality for extra spl here.
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post #491 of 517
3/20/12 at 12:31pm
Gotcha, I thought horns were for lower frequencies.
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post #492 of 517
3/20/12 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

Gotcha, I thought horns were for lower frequencies.

in order to get much lower than 20hz they would have to be huge, where multiple sealed actually does better. The upper bass range you could use a horn but Not still has that covered in spades as well

Guess no love on what you think about xt32 vs. regular audsyssey?
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post #493 of 517
3/20/12 at 12:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

in order to get much lower than 20hz they would have to be huge, where multiple sealed actually does better. The upper bass range you could use a horn but Not still has that covered in spades as well

Guess no love on what you think about xt32 vs. regular audsyssey?

I thought I linked my post about that.

XT32 does much better for everything else, but not happy with how it handled my subs.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21801515
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post #494 of 517
3/20/12 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I thought I linked my post about that.

XT32 does much better for everything else, but not happy with how it handled my subs.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21801515

oh yea, missed it, I kept looking back at this thread to find them, definitely not there that looks great. how did you manage to acheive such a good MF/HF area, any other eqing done there or just xt32? properly placed acoustic panels and such?
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post #495 of 517
3/20/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I thought I linked my post about that.

XT32 does much better for everything else, but not happy with how it handled my subs.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21801515

You have a Denon if I remember correctly. A buddy of mine has the Denon 4311 which I had also when it first came out. He still needs to make corrections to his subs after XT32 and I did too when I had the 4311. Once I picked up a Onkyo 5508 I don't have to touch my subs after XT32 has it's way and the same thing for my 3008 which I use downstairs.

For some reason Denon's implementation of XT32 does not do a good job on subs like Onkyo's. I thought maybe it was that I got a bum 4311 but after seeing my buddy's graph and yours I believe it is a Denon problem.
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post #496 of 517
3/20/12 at 2:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

oh yea, missed it, I kept looking back at this thread to find them, definitely not there that looks great. how did you manage to acheive such a good MF/HF area, any other eqing done there or just xt32? properly placed acoustic panels and such?

XT32 and acoustic panels
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post #497 of 517
3/21/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

XT32 and acoustic panels

What was your process for applying the acoustic panels? I think a dip in my response in my room is due to potentially too many acoustic panels. I love a dead room, unless it causes problems with a good flat response. I systematically measured all first reflection points when I placed the acoustic panels near the front and to the side. from that point further back, I just spaced them similarly so everything looked pretty uniform. Then again, too much absorbtion may NOT be what im experiencing. Im going to pull all panels and do head to head comparo's and put them back in one by one or two by two to see if there is any difference.
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post #498 of 517
3/21/12 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
paneling will only treat reflections, it shouldn't cause any dips.
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post #499 of 517
3/21/12 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


What was your process for applying the acoustic panels? I think a dip in my response in my room is due to potentially too many acoustic panels. I love a dead room, unless it causes problems with a good flat response. I systematically measured all first reflection points when I placed the acoustic panels near the front and to the side. from that point further back, I just spaced them similarly so everything looked pretty uniform. Then again, too much absorbtion may NOT be what im experiencing. Im going to pull all panels and do head to head comparo's and put them back in one by one or two by two to see if there is any difference.

The guys in the audio theory room are onto some pretty crazy acoustical theory these day thats where I would suggest going to look for advice.

Matt
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post #500 of 517
3/21/12 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

The guys in the audio theory room are onto some pretty crazy acoustical theory these day thats where I would suggest going to look for advice.

Matt

Thanks Matt, ill check it!!!
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post #501 of 517
3/22/12 at 1:17am
Thread Starter 
So, super happy with the final EQ. Tested with some flicks today to see how far above reference I could push the subs without bottoming.

WOTW: 4db
Terminator Salvation: 11db

MiniDSP and XT32 are doing a fantastic job and everything sounds great.
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post #502 of 517
3/22/12 at 1:50am
Glad to see the best reference system is still not needing to be upgraded at all. I love MK's also but this system is the all out money no object type where as I think MK's is better for my bank account.

Either way thanks again for all your info you have posted through out your threads. Most helpful.
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post #503 of 517
3/22/12 at 3:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

So, super happy with the final EQ. Tested with some flicks today to see how far above reference I could push the subs without bottoming.

WOTW: 4db
Terminator Salvation: 11db

MiniDSP and XT32 are doing a fantastic job and everything sounds great.

Would love to see Omnimic or any spl readings at those levels. I just started taking readings on my new DIY sub system and was surprised by TS at the 38-44 minute mark. WOTW@+4db must be truly exceptional and devastating.
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post #504 of 517
3/22/12 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I have 120amps of power run to my screen wall. I don't think I'd really call that limited. The only real limit now is how much you can physically handle. The amps are holding up still. Denon released a hardware/firmware upgrade for my receiver to support XT32 and some other stuff, which I just had completed. After a long night, my system is finally EQ'd again.

This is the final result. You can ignore the falloff from 8k as the mic I was using to measure isn't the greatest in that range, but super quick for me to setup. There's also a room mode around 80hz where I measured apparently.



BTW, very nice graph! Is this a stereo with subs graph? I ran MCACC with my setup and it sounds great, however I thought about EQing each speaker at 1 meter on its own. I think it sounds better when I EQ each speaker flat first then maybe a little tweak at the LP, but I have many LP's so it will vary a bit seat to seat. My bass is pretty much the same at every seat with it EQ'd to the LP. High frequencies are different though.
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post #505 of 517
3/22/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

So, super happy with the final EQ. Tested with some flicks today to see how far above reference I could push the subs without bottoming.

WOTW: 4db
Terminator Salvation: 11db

MiniDSP and XT32 are doing a fantastic job and everything sounds great.

This just shows how difficult your room is and how impressive the subs are. I never boosted my low end before and always ran 12 dBs hot for any movie and now with me boosting the low end I run 4 dbs hot for every movie as it seems so much stronger now. I assume you just turned up the LFE channel and not the MV because it would be hard to listen to a movie over reference with speakers.

One more thing, When I ran Ada equipment reference levels was loud and clear but very smooth. The pioneer can't get to reference without being too loud for me and many movies, even the Dark Night at reference is too loud now, why do you think this is? My SC-37 is rated at 140 watts per channel and my Ada amp was 150 watts per channel. I like the overall tone and detail of my SC-37 but reference seems too loud now. I turn it down -5 dBs and it is good for most movies except maybe super 8. With my Ada I could watch super 8 at reference! I am talking speakers and not loud bass.
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post #506 of 517
3/22/12 at 7:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

BTW, very nice graph! Is this a stereo with subs graph? I ran MCACC with my setup and it sounds great, however I thought about EQing each speaker at 1 meter on its own. I think it sounds better when I EQ each speaker flat first then maybe a little tweak at the LP, but I have many LP's so it will vary a bit seat to seat. My bass is pretty much the same at every seat with it EQ'd to the LP. High frequencies are different though.

That's with subs in mono. SP Mix setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

This just shows how difficult your room is and how impressive the subs are. I never boosted my low end before and always ran 12 dBs hot for any movie and now with me boosting the low end I run 4 dbs hot for every movie as it seems so much stronger now. I assume you just turned up the LFE channel and not the MV because it would be hard to listen to a movie over reference with speakers.

One more thing, When I ran Ada equipment reference levels was loud and clear but very smooth. The pioneer can't get to reference without being too loud for me and many movies, even the Dark Night at reference is too loud now, why do you think this is? My SC-37 is rated at 140 watts per channel and my Ada amp was 150 watts per channel. I like the overall tone and detail of my SC-37 but reference seems too loud now. I turn it down -5 dBs and it is good for most movies except maybe super 8. With my Ada I could watch super 8 at reference! I am talking speakers and not loud bass.

Salvation I ran at -1 with bass +12
WOTW I ran at -8 with bass +12

Your Ada amp and SC37 may have been calibrated to different reference points or have been running different EQ. Running XT32 here, it sets the levels automatically for me, so 0db is definitely reference. With the flat response, there isn't much room for divergence either.
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post #507 of 517
3/22/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

That's with subs in mono. SP Mix setting.



Salvation I ran at -1 with bass +12
WOTW I ran at -8 with bass +12

Your Ada amp and SC37 may have been calibrated to different reference points or have been running different EQ. Running XT32 here, it sets the levels automatically for me, so 0db is definitely reference. With the flat response, there isn't much room for divergence either.

My SC-37 sets the MV to 0 when it runs it's test tones and the Ada also uses 0 dbs as reference. They SC-37 sounds louder than the Ada did at the same levels. During the Dark Night with the SC-37 set to reference(MV 0) I recorded 105 dBs peak with spl meter set to A weighted and that was with all speakers going. The only difference I can think of it I manuall EQ'd every speaker at 1 meter with the Ada and I let MCACC do it's thing at the LP. They both sound good but like I said, reference is too loud now where before it was perfect. AVR's being to loud at reference was one of the reasons I used separates. I always thought it was due to amp power but this should not be the case with my speakers.
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post #508 of 517
3/22/12 at 8:34am
Thread Starter 
Your calibration methods are different, and reference should be determined at the lp. Reference is LOUD, too loud for most.
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post #509 of 517
3/22/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Your calibration methods are different, and reference should be determined at the lp. Reference is LOUD, too loud for most.

The only difference was EQ methods. I used test tones at 75 dBs at the LP for both setups.
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post #510 of 517
3/22/12 at 11:59am
what is the SP Mix setting?
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