2D only: VW85 vs RS40 (or "Best 2D movie & gaming projector for $3k-$5k")

I've not seen the RS40 in action, but I just upgraded my Pearl to a new VW85 and wow, what a difference. I don't care that it's previous gen...it has all the features I need, great blacks (on a HP screen no less), anamorphic mode for when I get a lens (currently zooming for scope), etc, etc. it's definitely a drastic upgrade for me. I'm seeing detail I never saw with the Pearl...and I loved that projector.

Personally, go with the 85.

When I did the lag test, the RS40 had approx 80ms avg lag time, versus the RS1 which had about 50ms. I don't know if there were settings that could have improved the RS40, but I did not have CMD on, and I was using "natural" mode for the test. Not sure if another would've been better... When I dual output to my panasonic 37S1 LCD and my RS40 at the same time, I can see a slight lag on the RS40...

If you take 3D out of the equation, and if response time is important, then I'd probably stick the the VW85 if that truly has a better response time... I personally have never seen the VW85, so I couldn't tell you how the two compare in other areas.

So you finally decided not to upgrade your VW100. Considering that the VW85 has the same resolution, 2D only and similar lumen with a non-Xenon lamp, I hope you won't be disappointed.
For myself, I keep waiting for the VW150 (should not be too long, after VW90 Sony won't have much choice in going above 100... ).

Hopefully this isn't considered hijacking, but I think there will be very similar performance between the two so...

While I can't speak to the 40, my RS-50's lag time is at least 200 ms in THX mode, and 'feels' around 80-100 ms in other modes. This is with no CMD, extra processing, etc.

You've read right, there's almost a quarter second of input lag in THX mode. It's so bad in fact that lip sync is noticeably off on DVD's and Blurays from my Sony BD player, as well as movies and TV shows from my HTPC.

As far as why? Good question. I just know that I've never seen lag this bad before.

Before anyone thinks I'm bashing my dear 50 let me say that said I've already grown somewhat accustomed to it, but make no mistake, in all modes I dare say you may notice a slight delay, regardless of player and AVR settings, and even with using direct from Player-->Projector connections.

In THX mode however, my somewhat extensive testing has shown audio will simply not sync 100% with the screen action unless using HDMI 1.3 lip sync correction (if available).

For the sake of completeness, my Dell 2410 monitor I often mirror with the projector seems to be rated around 40ms, a speed I've always felt is the upper-limit of what I can start to detect:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm

The 50 however, is simply noticeably slower than this.

Current owners will also confirm that syncing an HDMI source is also painfully slow. Often times a TV show's audio will start with no picture for a good 2 or 3 seconds as we switch display modes from the DVD menu screen to the actual episode.

All of that said, I still love my PJ--last night I watched a few minutes of some Pixar films in the Anime setting and it was literally awe-inspiring. I just hope they can address these other issues via firmware. If they don't this will be my first and last JVC projector. Quality isn't just a pretty image, for these prices it needs to be the whole package!

All that said, according to this site:


Which to be honest, I find a bit disconcerting. Hopefully JVC has not decided that this and similar findings should be the norm.

Haven't posted these findings elsewhere, though mainly because without equipment to back my findings I'm leaving myself exposed to criticism I simply can't defend without hard numbers.

That said, the truly relevant point in this discussion is that input lag, just like the issue of not supporting some non-standard 3D formats and the CMS doing this mind-numbingly ridiculous flash every time you change a setting--if you had to pick it's obvious that JVC's weak spot is software.

At some point in the not-to-distant future LED based light sources (or similar) will even out the playing field for truly high-contrast projection units, and TV's will only get bigger and cheaper to the point where we're heading to Best Buy to pick up that new 100" Samsung for under 3k....In short software will become the leading factor in many peoples buying choices, and in an increasingly competitive market this would not bode well for JVC.

Again, love my projector--just not some aspects of the software. Simple to fix though Japan, simple to fix.... : )

I just purchased and put up a VW85 last week and it is simply amazing. I could not be happier.

I raised this question before too... no idea what the lag on my laptop monitor is...


Here is the link to the post I made... it wasn't a big thread which is why it's probably easy to overlook:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19838264

Looks like someone else put up numbers in a post below mine... .06 - .07... so not far off from my findings....

Well, here is an other interesting option for you : a B-stock refurbished VW200 for about 1/5th the original price !.
It keeps the VW100 Xenon lamp, and adds a better (automatic) pixel alignment as well as the 24p capability; and the correction of the VW100 hard start problem.
On the other hand, that dirt cheap offer may be the advance notification for a coming VW150 or VW300 (long overdue... ).

Oh, and for $500 less, you get a B-stock VW85, but wo/ Xenon lamp.

"Well, here is an other interesting option for you : a B-stock refurbished VW200 for about 1/5th the original price !.
It keeps the VW100 Xenon lamp, and adds a better (automatic) pixel alignment as well as the 24p capability; and the correction of the VW100 hard start problem.
On the other hand, that dirt cheap offer may be the advance notification for a coming VW150 or VW300 (long overdue... )."


So which would you go with? the 200 or the 85?

200 if you go with a Sony. I would research a bit on panel degradation issues though as there is some concern from respected members that Sony's panels decline in on/off contrast ratio over time (cine4home & UMR).

Have you thought about using a two projector configuration? I use a cheaper low lag DLP for gaming and a nicer projector for movie watching. I do this not so much for the lag issues but in order to save my bulb/calibration for the good stuff.

Cine4Home has adressed this concern

Note VW100 is a 2005 model, VW50 is a 2006 model!!

Unike Cine4Home, UMR has never provided any objective measurements on front projectors.

I loved the 200 I had. I kept it for 2 years before changing to something else. I went through one lamp change. I loved the color and sheen of the image never any panel degrade on mine. I am probably going to grab another one if I can confirm we can still get a special on the lamp. There really has not been any image break through the last few years that leave anyone projector on top of all others. We are taking baby steps.

Interesting, as I haven't heard that update. That is good to know. I almost bought a Sony last year, but the transaction became complicated. I guess I would not have had anything to worry about as far as the panel.

Hi,

Thanks for your observations.

I was wondering if your receiver or prepro has HDMI 1.3 lip sync correction would it be possible to use it to confirm your observations?

Here's an excerpt from my Onkyo PR-SC886 manual that discusses this feature.


So assuming the projector supports this feature it seems that if your receiver/prepro has a similar functionality it should be possible to automatically measure, set and display the delay. This would permit you to confirm your observations if you have concerns about backing up your findings.

Larry