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JVC RS40 Lumens - Page 3

post #61 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post


Hi,

Thanks.

That is the highest reading I have seen using a useful picture mode.

Can you please list the rest of your settings?

Thanks.

Larry

I'll check tonight when I get back from home. Also, I noticed that red color is the strongest when I look at my picture so maybe I was lucky and got a really good bulb.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I have RS40 and it's great, but had I choice to buy RS25 for comparable price (w/warranty) I'd surely get it instead. Seems like less of a chance for issues.

Same price, and warranty.
However, he would give me a discount on the RS40, but not on the RS25.
post #63 of 292
I'd get RS25 if price was the same as RS40. I don't care for 3D though.

Not that I regret getting my RS40. Love it. Have ~120 hours on it and it hasn't dimmed much if any.
post #64 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I'd get RS25 if price was the same as RS40. (..)

Reason?
post #65 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I'd get RS25 if price was the same as RS40. I don't care for 3D though.

Not that I regret getting my RS40. Love it. Have ~120 hours on it and it hasn't dimmed much if any.

did you ever get a chance to measure your lumen output of the RS40? Please post when you get a chance, number of hours, throw distance, etc.. so we can get more references from RS40 owners vs. RS50/60 results.

thanks!
post #66 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verners View Post

Reason?

Number of problems reported with RS40, seems there were fewer with the previous generation. My first was DOA, current locked up twice and has a dead pixel (invisible though from the seating distance), also convergence seems to drift.

RS25 has CMS, although I am not sure I'd take advantage of it, as I am happy with RS40 colors already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

did you ever get a chance to measure your lumen output of the RS40? Please post when you get a chance, number of hours, throw distance, etc.. so we can get more references from RS40 owners vs. RS50/60 results.

thanks!

Meant to do it. Actually did it, before the forumula to convert to lumens was given. Will re-measure tonight.
post #67 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

(..)
Meant to do it. Actually did it, before the forumula to convert to lumens was given. Will re-measure tonight.

Thanks for your reply.

If you do get to measure, can you do it on High and Low lamp mode please.
post #68 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post


Meant to do it. Actually did it, before the forumula to convert to lumens was given. Will re-measure tonight.

Any luck with the measurements? curious to hear as I am considering picking up an RS40 to directly compare with a new lamp I have for the RS50.

Whichever is the winner in lumens @ D65 stays.
post #69 of 292
Has anyone got some lumen results comparing the lamp new and after a few hundred hours? On low and hi lamp mode, and D65 calibration would be preferred.

I'm still not sure if i should chose the RS40 or RS25.
I would go for the RS25 for all the calibration options, but my Girlfriend would love a brighter picture over some small color inaccuracies.
post #70 of 292
After reading through people's measurements in this thread and reading Art's review on projector reviews, I think I made the right decision to cancel my pre-order of the RS40 and go with another Infocus DLP as I want and need a decent amount of lumens to light up a 12ft wide 1.1 gain screen. After full calibration at D6500 I measured 1100 lumens in high lamp mode on my new Infocus SP8602 and nearly 900 lumens in low lamp....No, I don't have those great black levels but everything is a trade off.

I think JVC rushed this to market before it was really ready, maybe the next gen will be much better and I will try that one if they increase real usable lumens on the screen.
post #71 of 292
I just picked up my first light meter, an EXTECH 403125 one of 2 recommended by UMR and took these "peak" center position of screen only readings. Custom 100" inch wide 16x9 Hi Power. Aimed at projector to be clear. Thanks to zombie10K for explaining to me on PM how to arrive at lumens figure from lux readings. I am in front 1/3 probably of shortest throw range and dead centered on screen. Roughly 13-14 feet back. Lamps on High and iris completely open. I added in .3" inches height and width for very slight overshoot I am running.

Though there are no exact readings at the same hours from the 4 lamps, they seem to be similar to one another in % of lumens decline over hours used.

RS25 at 203 hours with lamp calibrated by UMR at 185 hours = 484 lumens
RS25 original lamp, same calibration used, at 1,100 hours = 411 "

RS50 at 116 hours, not yet calibrated but Natural / Standard / 6500, not THX setting = 554 lumens THX was in similar range if I recall.
RS50 brand new lamp same settings as above = 590 lumens
RS50 " " " picture profile "OFF" / 9500K = 928

***Just redid numbers lower.... used wrong multiplyer

One thing puzzling to me was that there seemed to only be one time, maybe twice that the option for "OFF" was available in the Picture Profile menu. Is that contingent on one of the other option choices?
post #72 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post
After reading through people's measurements in this thread and reading Art's review on projector reviews, I think I made the right decision to cancel my pre-order of the RS40 and go with another Infocus DLP as I want and need a decent amount of lumens to light up a 12ft wide 1.1 gain screen. After full calibration at D6500 I measured 1100 lumens in high lamp mode on my new Infocus SP8602 and nearly 900 lumens in low lamp....No, I don't have those great black levels but everything is a trade off.

I think JVC rushed this to market before it was really ready, maybe the next gen will be much better and I will try that one if they increase real usable lumens on the screen.
Art has not tested a RS40, which does not appear to have the low lumens problem (at least with new lamp) that is an issue with the RS50 and RS60 (which Art did test). Myself and others have meausred approx. 1300 lumens in brightest mode and approx. 800 lumens (or a little more) in D65 calibrated mode with the RS40.
post #73 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

After reading through people's measurements in this thread and reading Art's review on projector reviews, I think I made the right decision to cancel my pre-order of the RS40 and go with another Infocus DLP as I want and need a decent amount of lumens to light up a 12ft wide 1.1 gain screen. After full calibration at D6500 I measured 1100 lumens in high lamp mode on my new Infocus SP8602 and nearly 900 lumens in low lamp....No, I don't have those great black levels but everything is a trade off.

I think JVC rushed this to market before it was really ready, maybe the next gen will be much better and I will try that one if they increase real usable lumens on the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Art has not tested a RS40, which does not appear to have the low lumens problem (at least with new lamp) that is an issue with the RS50 and RS60 (which Art did test). Myself and others have meausred approx. 1300 lumens in brightest mode and approx. 800 lumens (or a little more) in D65 calibrated mode with the RS40.

Hi dangc,

Thanks for reporting your measurements. Both of these projectors are on my short list. To follow-up on Ron's remarks, after 20 hours on his RS40 another forum member measured a very respectable 790 lumens in Normal lamp power mode and a truly enviable 1106 lumens in High lamp power mode. These measurement appear to be taken in a usable mode, not one of those unusable "torch" modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

So I just did a quick measurement at 20 hours and get 790 lumens at a 13'2" throw. Not sure though about what settings to use to have the best measure, my RS 40 was on Natural and aperture fully opened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

That was in low mode, just tried in high and I get 1106 lumens there.

So if ohotos' setting are comparable to yours (in being realistic usable settings) and if both projectors were in the same price range, then the RS40 with its better blacks and 3D features would be hard to beat. However, for your large screen, and assuming 3D features are not a consideration, then the InFocus seems to be an excellent choice.

I suspect that both projectors are going to see at least 40% lumen reductions after 500 hours so it certainly doesn't hurt to have decent lumens out of the box.

Larry
post #74 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

Thanks.

That is the highest reading I have seen using a useful picture mode.

Can you please list the rest of your settings?

Thanks.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

I'll check tonight when I get back from home. Also, I noticed that red color is the strongest when I look at my picture so maybe I was lucky and got a really good bulb.

Hi ohotos,

I was hoping you might be able to follow-up and post the rest of your settings.

Thanks.

Larry
post #75 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post


RS25 at 203 hours with lamp calibrated by UMR at 185 hours = 484 lumens
RS25 original lamp, same calibration used, at 1,100 hours = 411 "

RS50 at 116 hours, not yet calibrated but Normal / Standard / 6500, not THX setting = 554 lumens THX was in similar range if I recall.
RS50 brand new lamp same settings as above = 590 lumens
RS50 " " " picture profile "OFF" / 9500K = 928

Ron, your RS25 @ 1100 hours is brighter than my calibrated D65 RS50 @ 220 hours.

it looks like your lamp has only dropped ~8% so far @ 116 hours. I'd watch it closely over the next 40-50 hours. Mine dropped like a rock @ 160 hours which accounts for the majority of my 35% loss @ 220 hours.

I am approaching 250 and will re-measure soon. All I have to say is in the best case scenario.. that is no 800 lumens from the RS40.
post #76 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

another forum member measured a very respectable 790 lumens in Normal lamp power mode and a truly enviable 1106 lumens in High lamp power mode. These measurement appear to be taken in a usable mode, not one of those unusable "torch" modes.

Larry, I would like to hear further clarification on how those measurements were achieved. It's way outside the measurements from Cinem4home who averaged several X3's during his intial calibrations, Ron's measurements, etc.

The 1106 sounds like Torch mode, and 790 @ one of the usuable modes. This would mean this unique projector was 30% brighter than any of the other RS40/X3's we've heard about.

@ Ohotos - Please the LUX reading, size of the screen in width / height and throw distance so we can make sure the math is right. thx
post #77 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Larry, I would like to hear further clarification on how those measurements were achieved. It's way outside the measurements from Cinem4home who averaged several X3's during his intial calibrations, Ron's measurements, etc.

The 1106 sounds like Torch mode, and 790 @ one of the usuable modes. This would mean this unique projector was 30% brighter than any of the other RS40/X3's we've heard about.

@ Ohotos - Please the LUX reading, size of the screen in width / height and throw distance so we can make sure the math is right. thx

Hi Jason,

Yes, that's why I followed-up with ohotos in my previous posting. He did mention that he used the Natural Picture mode, with full iris and the 790 lumen reading was in the low lamp power mode and the 1106 lumen reading was in high lamp power mode.

As I understand it you can set the Color Temperature independently of the Picture mode, so this would be one particular setting I would like to know to see if it was set to 6500K.

Larry
post #78 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post
Hi dangc,

Thanks for reporting your measurements. Both of these projectors are on my short list. To follow-up on Ron's remarks, after 20 hours on his RS40 another forum member measured a very respectable 790 lumens in Normal lamp power mode and a truly enviable 1106 lumens in High lamp power mode. These measurement appear to be taken in a usable mode, not one of those unusable "torch" modes.





So if ohotos' setting are comparable to yours (in being realistic usable settings) and if both projectors were in the same price range, then the RS40 with its better blacks and 3D features would be hard to beat. However, for your large screen, and assuming 3D features are not a consideration, then the InFocus seems to be an excellent choice.

I suspect that both projectors are going to see at least 40% lumen reductions after 500 hours so it certainly doesn't hurt to have decent lumens out of the box.

Larry
I have yet to see these kind of numbers from a fully calibrated RS40. My numbers are quoted after full calibration on my Radiance, it is known that the RS40 red is very low, meaning when calibrated you have to bring green and blue down to red and that is where quite a bit of light is lost. I know I have read measurements from reputable folks stating 650 lumens after calibration on the RS40 in high. See Calibration thread for instance this post (He states lumens at the very bottom of the post) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19858780

With that said, if you are not that picky and can live with the out of the box 6500K setting then you should be fine depending on how the bulb ages.

I have also dropped off the threads on the RS40 as I got tired of waiting and went for the Infocus so if they have made some improvements or corrections that has remedied this then fantastic! I will be looking again at the next generation as I would still like to have a JVC one day.
post #79 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Jason,

Yes, that's why I followed-up with ohotos in my previous posting. He did mention that he used the Natural Picture mode, with full iris and the 790 lumen reading was in the low lamp power mode and the 1106 lumen reading was in high lamp power mode.

As I understand it you can set the Color Temperature independently of the Picture mode, so this would be one particular setting I would like to know to see if it was set to 6500K.

Larry

IIRC the Natural Picture Mode is torch mode. Rec709 is close to correct in the RS40's and it would be more informative to see how many lumens there are in that mode.
post #80 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

IIRC the Natural Picture Mode is torch mode. Rec709 is close to correct in the RS40's and it would be more informative to see how many lumens there are in that mode.

Hi Geof,

I believe that the Natural Picture mode is the default setting and it was my impression that Natural was a usable Picture mode, along with others such as Film Picture mode. The Color Temperature setting of High Brightness is the "torch" mode needed to get the RS40 to output maximum lumens, albeit unwatchable for normal viewing.

There is no Rec709 mode listed in the manual under the Picture mode options, in fact I couldn't find a reference that mode under any settings.

Larry
post #81 of 292
I will confirm my settings and measurements a bit later when I am back home as I was going to take a new measurement at 50 hours anyways.
post #82 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

IIRC the Natural Picture Mode is torch mode. Rec709 is close to correct in the RS40's and it would be more informative to see how many lumens there are in that mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Geof,

I believe that the Natural Picture mode is the default setting and it was my impression that Natural was a usable Picture mode, along with others such as Film Picture mode. The Color Temperature setting of High Brightness is the "torch" mode needed to get the RS40 to output maximum lumens, albeit unwatchable for normal viewing.

Larry

I stand corrected, you are correct. Thanks.
post #83 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

IIRC the Natural Picture Mode is torch mode. Rec709 is close to correct in the RS40's and it would be more informative to see how many lumens there are in that mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Geof,

I believe that the Natural Picture mode is the default setting and it was my impression that Natural was a usable Picture mode, along with others such as Film Picture mode. The Color Temperature setting of High Brightness is the "torch" mode needed to get the RS40 to output maximum lumens, albeit unwatchable for normal viewing.

There is no Rec709 mode listed in the manual under the Picture mode options, in fact I couldn't find a reference that mode under any settings.

Larry

As I recall it was Gary from JVC UK that first told us that the "Standard" color space setting on the X3/RS40 was intended to be close to Rec. 709. The manual describes this setting as "equivalent to the HDTV color space" which is in fact defined to be Rec. 709. The actual color points you get with a RS40 vary by the combination of the setting for "color space" and the setting for "Picture Mode." While genearally no combination of these two settings will produce perfect Rec. 709 color points, it appears that a setting of "Natural" picture mode plus "standard" color space can produce fairly accurate color points, and with some units this will produce the closest to accurate Rec. 709 color points. However with other units units "film" picture mode plus "standard" color space might be a little better result (or preferred by given viewer).
post #84 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

So I just did a quick measurement at 20 hours and get 790 lumens at a 13'2" throw. Not sure though about what settings to use to have the best measure, my RS 40 was on Natural and aperture fully opened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

As I recall it was Gary from JVC UK that first told us that the "Standard" color space setting on the X3/RS40 was intended to be close to Rec. 709. The manual describes this setting as "equivalent to the HDTV color space" which is in fact defined to be Rec. 709. The actual color points you get with a RS40 vary by the combination of the setting for "color space" and the setting for "Picture Mode." While genearally no combination of these two settings will produce perfect Rec. 709 color points, it appears that a setting of "Natural" picture mode plus "standard" color space can produce fairly accurate color points, and with some units this will produce the closest to accurate Rec. 709 color points. However with other units units "film" picture mode plus "standard" color space might be a little better result (or preferred by given viewer).

Hi Ron,

Thanks.

For folks like ohotos who have not had a professional calibration, but who are interested in measuring lumens using meaningful settings, are the following reasonable?

Picture mode: Natural
Color space: Standard
Color temperature: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Iris: 0 Fully open
Lamp power mode: High

State hours on lamp
State % of maximum throw based on screen size

Are there any other settings that should be considered?
I assume that Brightness and Contrast should not be cranked up, but rather reasonably set using a basic calibration disc?

Any suggestions to those planning to take lumen measurements?

Thanks again.

Larry
post #85 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

...it is known that the RS40 red is very low, meaning when calibrated you have to bring green and blue down to red and that is where quite a bit of light is lost...

I don't know if I'd say that "it is known". I think we have some examples of the new RS series lamps that were deficient in red (most notably, Zombie's RS50 stocker), but there seems to be considerable variety. Zombie's original RS40, as an example, was not nearly so deficient. At this point, I don't think there is enough data to even state what is "expected" of a new RS series lamp versus what is an anomaly.

When Jason at AVS calibrated my RS40, he had to pull back more red than any other colour (at -12 I believe). I'm only 50 hours into it, but so far red is still stronger in my lamp than green or blue.

I don't think my bulb is necessarily the "norm" either - it may well be as anomalous as Zombie's nasty 50 lamp.

I just don't think there is enough info out there yet. If a calibrator (like Jason at AVS) who has done a whole bunch of RS-series calibrations (like Jason at AVS) could offer their experiences, I think that could help outline the expectations of these lamps.
post #86 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Ron,

Thanks.

For folks like ohotos who have not had a professional calibration, but who are interested in measuring lumens using meaningful settings, are the following reasonable?

Picture mode: Natural
Color space: Standard
Color temperature: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Iris: 0 Fully open
Lamp power mode: High

State hours on lamp
State % of maximum throw based on screen size

Are there any other settings that should be considered?
I assume that Brightness and Contrast should not be cranked up, but rather reasonably set using a basic calibration disc?

Any suggestions to those planning to take lumen measurements?

Thanks again.

Larry

So I just did another measurement with the following settings:

Picture mode: Natural
Color space: Standard
Color temperature: 6500K
Gamma: A (somehow I couldn't change this option to Normal this morning, option was greyed out. Had to get ready for work so not enough time to look into it.
Iris: 0 Fully open
Lamp power mode: High

48 hours on lamp
throw 13'2"

Since my last measurements the only things that changed are that I did a rough calibration using the WOW disc. Also this time I used a full white screen for the measurement, last time I had used the white one with the nine black circles.

I got a reading of 292 lux at the center this time.
My screen is 58.6"h x 104.7"w

So after my calculation I got 1153 lumen.
post #87 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Ron,

Thanks.

For folks like ohotos who have not had a professional calibration, but who are interested in measuring lumens using meaningful settings, are the following reasonable?

Picture mode: Natural
Color space: Standard
Color temperature: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Iris: 0 Fully open
Lamp power mode: High

State hours on lamp
State % of maximum throw based on screen size

Are there any other settings that should be considered?
I assume that Brightness and Contrast should not be cranked up, but rather reasonably set using a basic calibration disc?

Any suggestions to those planning to take lumen measurements?

Thanks again.

Larry

You also need to know how the projector has been set for reference white level. This is which HDMI Input mode (i.e., Standard, Enhanced or Super White) is being used and also the setting for the contrast control. For a standard reference these could be set to "Standard" HDMI input mode and the constrast set to zero (0). This will get you close to the having the projector using a digitial input value of 235 as the reference white level. When the HDMI input mode is set to Super White or Enhanced then the contrast control will need to be set to something around +10 to get the reference white level to near 235. If you calibrate your projector to allow the whiter-than-white levels (i.e., level 236 thru 255) to be displayed without clipping then when you measure the projector's lumens output using a 100% reference white screen you will get a lower reading than if calibrated for reference white level for a input of 235.

You also need to know how the Lux or Lumens were measured. I have found that measurements using the wrong tool (e.g., Eye-one) can produce meaningless results for lumens. The best tool seems to be a lux meter placed directly in front of the screen with the light sensor aimed toward the projector. Also remember that many of these lux meters are specified to have accuracy only within a few percent, so two meters even of the same make and model may produce readings that differ by more then 5%, so small differences in results (e.g., 850 vs. 900 lumens) may not have any real meaning.

UPDATE: Finally we need to know if they did a single point masurement at the screen center or did the 9-point measurements and are reporting the average (ANSI Lumens technique).
post #88 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post


You also need to know how the projector has been set for reference white level. This is which HDMI Input mode (i.e., Standard, Enhanced or Super White) is being used and also the setting for the contrast control. For a standard reference these could be set to "Standard" HDMI input mode and the constrast set to zero (0). This will get you close to the having the projector using a digitial input value of 235 as the reference white level. When the HDMI input mode is set to Super White or Enhanced then the contrast control will need to be set to something around +10 to get the reference white level to near 235. If you calibrate your projector to allow the whiter-than-white levels (i.e., level 236 thru 255) to be displayed without clipping then when you measure the projector's lumens output using a 100% reference white screen you will get a lower reading than if calibrated for reference white level for a input of 235.

You also need to know how the Lux or Lumens were measured. I have found that measurements using the wrong tool (e.g., Eye-one) can produce meaningless results for lumens. The best tool seems to be a lux meter placed directly in front of the screen with the light sensor aimed toward the projector. Also remember that many of these lux meters are specified to have accuracy only within a few percent, so two meters even of the same make and model may produce readings that differ by more then 5%, so small differences in results (e.g., 850 vs. 900 lumens) may not have any real meaning.

My HDMI is set to standard and I measured using a lux meter at the screen pointing to the projector. Don't remember what my contrast is set to but I can look that up tonight. My lux meter is not a high end model but it's said to be within 5% accuracy.
post #89 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

So I just did another measurement with the following settings:

Picture mode: Natural
Color space: Standard
Color temperature: 6500K
Gamma: A (somehow I couldn't change this option to Normal this morning, option was greyed out. Had to get ready for work so not enough time to look into it.
Iris: 0 Fully open
Lamp power mode: High

48 hours on lamp
throw 13'2"

Since my last measurements the only things that changed are that I did a rough calibration using the WOW disc. Also this time I used a full white screen for the measurement, last time I had used the white one with the nine black circles.

I got a reading of 292 lux at the center this time.
My screen is 58.6"h x 104.7"w

So after my calculation I got 1153 lumen.

Hi ohotos,

Thanks very much for going to the effort.

Assuming your contrast settings are reasonable, at the risk of stating the obvious, your lumen measurements appear to be to die for.

Larry
post #90 of 292
What is the color profile on the RS40 that is equivalent to the color profile = off mode on the RS50?

This 1100+ reading still sounds like a torch mode setting. How could 1 projector be over 30% higher than anyone else has measured?
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