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Have any canon hf m30 users used a telephoto lens with their camcorder?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'm looking into camcorders for my wife's bday, and was debating b/w the upcoming Samsung HMX-H300 with 30x zoom and the Canon HF M30 that only has 15x. I was wondering if anyone her has used telephoto lens with the camera, because I want to see how well the image stabilization works when zoomed in far in conjunction with an external lens.


I was able to A/B the HMX-H200 (20x) with the HF M30 (15x) at best buy recently, and the Samsung seemed to have slightly better IS even with a bigger zoom. I was starting to lean towards the HMX-H300 because of the upgraded zoom and face detection software, but from the product photo I don't think there are any threads to screw on a lens or filter.

Currently I'm back to the Vixia HF M30 as my front runner since I can screw on a 2x lens and get the same zoom, but I'm concerned about taking usable video when fully zoomed in and using a lens.

Any help or information you have would be greatly appreciated.
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdogg81 View Post

I'm looking into camcorders for my wife's bday, and was debating b/w the upcoming Samsung HMX-H300 with 30x zoom and the Canon HF M30 that only has 15x. I was wondering if anyone her has used telephoto lens with the camera, because I want to see how well the image stabilization works when zoomed in far in conjunction with an external lens.


I was able to A/B the HMX-H200 (20x) with the HF M30 (15x) at best buy recently, and the Samsung seemed to have slightly better IS even with a bigger zoom. I was starting to lean towards the HMX-H300 because of the upgraded zoom and face detection software, but from the product photo I don't think there are any threads to screw on a lens or filter.

Currently I'm back to the Vixia HF M30 as my front runner since I can screw on a 2x lens and get the same zoom, but I'm concerned about taking usable video when fully zoomed in and using a lens.

Any help or information you have would be greatly appreciated.

Is there some specific reason you are planning to use that much extra zoom? Also, if you plan to use it very frequently, you should consider a tripod.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

Is there some specific reason you are planning to use that much extra zoom? Also, if you plan to use it very frequently, you should consider a tripod.

For continuous video at that level of zoom I'd want to use a tripod, but if I'm taking video of at a kids baseball game or at the park, it would be helpful to zoom in for a short time and try to hold the camera fairly steady.

I was able to get the Samsung camcorder to be remarkably stable at 20x zoom in my hand. The canon at 15x was also good, but I'm not sure how well the image stabilization will work a zoom lens screwed on.

My assumption is that 15x will be more than enough for most of my needs, but before I buy this camcorder and possibly spend another $100+ on a lens, I'd like to have an idea whether the OIS will do it's job at the higher end of the zoom range. I searched this and other forums for a while to see if I could find an answer, but haven't found any information yet.
post #4 of 13
15X what???
You really need to look at what the 35mm equivalent is. One camera manufacturer may claim 10X zoom, while another may claim 20X zoom. But, what is the widest and what is the longest??
If your 20X zoom camera stops at 380mm 35mm equivalent, while the other 15X camera goes to 480mm 35mm equivalent, then it's pretty obvious which one you would want to go with, if that's your priority.
But, don't just let the "zoom rating" dictate which camera you buy. There are many other factors in the buying decision.

No where on the internet, on a quick search, could I find the 35mm equivalents of either camera.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

15X what???
You really need to look at what the 35mm equivalent is. One camera manufacturer may claim 10X zoom, while another may claim 20X zoom. But, what is the widest and what is the longest??
If your 20X zoom camera stops at 380mm 35mm equivalent, while the other 15X camera goes to 480mm 35mm equivalent, then it's pretty obvious which one you would want to go with, if that's your priority.
But, don't just let the "zoom rating" dictate which camera you buy. There are many other factors in the buying decision.

No where on the internet, on a quick search, could I find the 35mm equivalents of either camera.


The zoom on these cameras is not the most important thing to me, but before I spend a lot of money on a camcorder I thought the question about lenses worth asking. Trying to standardize the zoom comparison is helpful, so as far as I can find:

The Canon HF M30 has a 35mm equivalent of 39.5 - 592.5mm.

The older model Samsung, HMX-H200 is 37 - 748 mm

The specs on the new Samsung aren't available, as Samsung refuses to comment on any product that isn't on the shelves yet, and B&H can't give me any info until they have the actual camcorder in. However, there are a number of things that make a difference to me in purchasing a camcorder, and the apparent lack of filter threads on the H300 will likely disqualify that camera.

What I'm really trying to find out here, whether for any camcorders with OIS or if possible specifically for the HF M30, is how well the image stablization works in conjunction with a telephoto lens. Is it a lot more jittery because the system is only compensating for the camera movement and not necessarily the extra zoom, or is the difference negligible? If anyone has experience with this please let me know. I'm admittedly new to camcorders, but have researched enough to have an idea what I'm talking about.
post #6 of 13
How much does a telephoto lens cost for the m30?
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdogg81 View Post

The older model Samsung, HMX-H200 is 37 - 748 mm

I doubt that. While the original press release from CES 2010 claimed the 37mm number, Samsung doesn't specify 35mm-equivalent focal lengths for this model on its website. And according to camcorderinfo.com the field of view at the wide end measured the same as Panasonic's HDC-TM700, which means it is very close to 35mm, not 37mm. The site also measured Sony's HDR-CX150, which claims 37mm at the wide end, and its field of view was several degrees narrower than the H200. Some of the site's tests are questionable but this one is straightforward.

Quote:


...and the apparent lack of filter threads on the H300 will likely disqualify that camera.

One of many poor decisions by Samsung that underline the company's apparent lack of understanding of the camcorder market. Another bad design decision on this product is that to get the extra (and IMO unnecessary) zoom range, they are using a smaller portion of a sensor with more pixels than the one in the H200 - exactly the wrong way to go.
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenK View Post

I doubt that. While the original press release from CES 2010 claimed the 37mm number, Samsung doesn't specify 35mm-equivalent focal lengths for this model on its website.

I pulled the numbers from a CNET review, but can't attest to their accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenK View Post

One of many poor decisions by Samsung that underline the company's apparent lack of understanding of the camcorder market. Another bad design decision on this product is that to get the extra (and IMO unnecessary) zoom range, they are using a smaller portion of a sensor with more pixels than the one in the H200 - exactly the wrong way to go.

I was very frustrated trying to find any info about the H300 over the past few weeks. It's understandable that there isn't a lot of published information on an unreleasred camcorder, but Samsung flat out refuses to answer any questions about the specs and wouldn't tell me if there were mounting threads on it. I gave up trying to figure it out and went with the sure thing this morning (Canon Vixia HF M30).
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdogg81 View Post

I was very frustrated trying to find any info about the H300 over the past few weeks.

Although you don't need any info on it any more, I found some specs here and here. The last press release in the latter link says "The HMX-H300 series is also built with a 5 Megapixel 1/4" (1/6.3", 1.75M Effective) BSI (Back Side Illuminated) CMOS sensor..." Assuming these numers are correct, the H300 uses considerably less area of its sensor for video than the H200 does of its sensor, and also has less effective pixels for video (not even HD?). Based on these numbers and on the numbers Samsung provides for the H200, a little math tells me that the wide end of the lens should be the same as the H200: 35mm. That's my prediction, at any rate.

As for a filter thread, you can see in hi-res photos of the H300 that there is no way the design can accomodate one.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

15X what???
You really need to look at what the 35mm equivalent is. One camera manufacturer may claim 10X zoom, while another may claim 20X zoom. But, what is the widest and what is the longest??
If your 20X zoom camera stops at 380mm 35mm equivalent, while the other 15X camera goes to 480mm 35mm equivalent, then it's pretty obvious which one you would want to go with, if that's your priority.
But, don't just let the "zoom rating" dictate which camera you buy. There are many other factors in the buying decision.

No where on the internet, on a quick search, could I find the 35mm equivalents of either camera.

I would take the 20x that zooms from 19-380mm than a 15x zoom that goes from 32 to 480mm. My Canon SX30 IS 35x zoom goes from 24-840mm but I would rather have a 20x 19-380mm since there is no ultra wide 20x zoom in that range. The new Nikon P500 with 36x zoom goes from 22.5mm to 810mm but 19mm is much wider than 22.5mm and much harder to make in a long 20x zoom.
post #11 of 13
I'm seriously considering the M30 to replace my HG21 but have three reservations...

1. I loved my HG21. It had a larger image sensor and from the tests I've seen it has better low light performance and truer color than the M30.

2. My HG21 suffered a "catastrophic failure" according to Canon repair and is unfixable. All I was doing was turning it off during timeouts of my son's basketball game to conserve battery. My guess is the image stabilizer locked up because it would make horrible noises when trying to power up then go back to sleep.



My customer service experience with Canon has been less than satisfactory. After 3 days of having my camera they sent a new repair estimate for slightly less than a new M30, but since I liked the camera I approved. Today, after 2 weeks the call to tell me that they cannot fix it and I will be refunded.

My "Customer Loyalty" price on a new M30 from Canon is more than I can buy it on Amazon.



3. I haven't read anything good about the new touch screen system.



Anyway, since I really liked I'm willing to consider an M30
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by penst8grad View Post

I'm seriously considering the M30 to replace my HG21 but have three reservations...

1. I loved my HG21. It had a larger image sensor and from the tests I've seen it has better low light performance and truer color than the M30.

2. My HG21 suffered a "catastrophic failure" according to Canon repair and is unfixable. All I was doing was turning it off during timeouts of my son's basketball game to conserve battery. My guess is the image stabilizer locked up because it would make horrible noises when trying to power up then go back to sleep.



My customer service experience with Canon has been less than satisfactory. After 3 days of having my camera they sent a new repair estimate for slightly less than a new M30, but since I liked the camera I approved. Today, after 2 weeks the call to tell me that they cannot fix it and I will be refunded.

My "Customer Loyalty" price on a new M30 from Canon is more than I can buy it on Amazon.



3. I haven't read anything good about the new touch screen system.



Anyway, since I really liked I'm willing to consider an M30

Dropping sensor size is a big deal, I think. I dont know about your old cam, bit if you know it is a visible downgrade you should seriously hesitate..especially with the M40 bound to be so significantly better. Usually a single years model upgrade is kind of silly to wait for, but read the threads and decide for yourself. In my prediction, we are going to see a huge difference.
post #13 of 13
Thanks for the insight workinghard. I found a site that compares cameras side-by-side with an honest test (http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/compare.html) and compared the M31, HG21, and M41. IMHO, the HG21 still comes out far ahead.

Now, the only question is how much I should pay for a used camera vs a new one and will I have the same problem again.
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