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Dirac LIve and High End Stereo

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
As was discussed in the AP20 thread, Dirac Live is also an excellent tool for stereo setups. The question I have regards Dirac Live and the use of a different Preamp (for a personal reasons I would like to use the AP20 only for the HT, and would like to use a different preamp for the stereo system).

I will be using a preamp that can input and output digital signals (MH ULN-8), ideally I would like to explore Dirac Live with it, but with the least amount of degradation to the original signal. As I understand it, there are two units that could be used for this, the DL2 or DL3. The DL3, which comes out in the summer, differs from the DL2 in that it has XLR in/outs (to be honest, not critical), and digital in (will it have digital out?).

The preamp will be used also as a digital x-over, so it will have 6 outs plus sub despite being only stereo. From our discussion in the AP20 thread, it is my understanding that Dirac Live generally operates with the individual channel as opposed to each output with the AP20. So there are two general lines of inquiry I would like to pursue:

1. Using the DL processors, will Dirac Live work better if it just receives a stereo input (i.e. only 3 [main speakers and sub] of the five inputs are used), or can it also be configured by using 6 inputs for the main speakers and 1 for the sub even though there are only 2.1 channels?

2. If I want to remain in the digital domain with the Dirac Live, will the DL3 output in a digital format as well? Does the x-over work from a channel perspective or would I be able to create multiple outputs to a stereo system (i.e. the DL3 operating also as an active x-over)?
post #2 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Huff
The problem using Dirac Live to create the crossovers is that there is no way to measure using Dirac Live the 3 channels running concurrently. The Dirac Live software would treat the woofer, midrange and tweeter as 3 distinct and standalone channels. They could not be measured as a single channel.
This would seem to suggest that even using the stand alone DL processors, Dirac Live will treat multiple inputs as distinct channels. If that is the case, then the only way the DL units could be used in stereo is if only 2 (or 3 if using a sub) inputs are used. Is a valid assumption Carl?

I'm guessing there is no interest (corporate or consumer for that matter) in putting out a stereo digital input-output version of the DL units.
post #3 of 65
Hello Raul,

The DL2 is a quality built 8 channel line level analog IN/OUT Dirac Live runtime in a standalone box. The connectors are standard unbalanced RCA phono jacks. The ADC and DAC circuits are identical to those in the AP20.

The DL3 adds digital TOSLINK & SPDIF inputs. We added these to the DL3 for those people looking to feed decoded digital from a CD, DVD or BluRay players. The inputs and outputs of the DL3 are balanced XLR. Neither the DL2 or DL3 has digital outputs. The DL3 also includes bass management and active crossovers. The crossovers are laid out in same fashion to those in the AP20. That is you can route a single input to 'n' number of outputs and assign HI/LO pass filters to those outputs. Output routing takes place immediately after the Dirac Live filter that is associated with a DL3 input. That means a single channel of Dirac Live services the 'n' way active crossover that has been created downstream. The software to configure the bass management and crossovers is not part of the Dirac Live software. It is a separate 'password protected' utility originally intended for the OEMs that will be relabeling the DL3 as their product.

I fully expect to see the DL3 become very popular in two channel 3 way and 4 way active systems as well as in post production studio settings.

_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #4 of 65
Thread Starter 
Thanks, that is exactly what I was trying to find out. It looks like I may have to put the DL3 as a unit for future consideration.
post #5 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The DL3 adds digital TOSLINK & SPDIF inputs. We added these to the DL3 for those people looking to feed decoded digital from a CD, DVD or BluRay players.

Those digital inputs would only work for 2ch PCM and lossy 5.1 codecs not multi-channel lossless dts or Dolby decoded to LPCM,correct? Since consumer devices are restricted to HDMI for digital multi-channel LPCM transfer and the DL3 doesn't use HDMI for a digital input.
post #6 of 65
"Those digital inputs would only work for 2ch PCM and lossy 5.1 codecs not multi-channel lossless dts or Dolby decoded to LPCM,correct? Since consumer devices are restricted to HDMI for digital multi-channel LPCM transfer and the DL3 doesn't use HDMI for a digital input."

That is correct. If you want HDMI as input I suggest that you take a look at the AP20.

_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #7 of 65
Is there more information online about the DL3? like a website? i searched but can't find anything! I am interested as I am currently building a speaker project but the DEQX unit was by far the front runner of active crossover solutions. Also who is making it dirac is just an R+D company from the looks of it correct??

Thanks

Matt
post #8 of 65
Matt,

There is very little online about the DL2 and DL3 products. However that will change soon when we go live with www.dl2.biz and www.audiotoys.biz. We expect to have both websites live in the next 30 to 45 days.

In the mean time I can answer any questions you might have about DDE's AP20, the DL2 or DL3. I am the fella behind all three products. To answer your question, yes Dirac Research is a research firm. They produce intellectual property that is licensed by others.

The DL3 will include active crossovers and is about 6 months from release. The DL2 is line level Dirac Live processor that gets released in the next 45 to 60 days. We are busy perfecting the product as I write this.

______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #9 of 65
thanks

you've got pm
post #10 of 65
How would the DL3 compare with the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC?
post #11 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
How would the DL3 compare with the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC?
One's an apple, the other's an orange. DL3 has DiracLive, PW does not.
post #12 of 65
"How would the DL3 compare with the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC?"

Oh boy ...

I really struggle with these kinds of questions because the answer is always very subject in nature. I invite those that have heard the AP20 to speak up and answer this question. What I can say is that the ADCs and DACs in the DL2 and DL3 are identical to those that are so well accepted in the AP20. The products sound identical. We put a lot of effort into the design of the AP20, extracting the best fidelity possible without resorting to exotica. I think we were successful but I'll let others say that.

The AP20 is a full blown commercial Cinema processor where the DL2 is a straight line Dirac Live runtime. The DL3 adds back in active crossovers and bass management. However the ADCs and DACs are identical.

_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #13 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

"How would the DL3 compare with the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC?"Oh boy ... I really struggle with these kinds of questions because the answer is always very subject in nature. I invite those that have heard the AP20 to speak up and answer this question. What I can say is that the ADCs and DACs in the DL2 and DL3 are identical to those that are so well accepted in the AP20. The products sound identical. We put a lot of effort into the design of the AP20, extracting the best fidelity possible without resorting to exotica. I think we were successful but I'll let others say that. The AP20 is a full blown commercial Cinema processor where the DL2 is a straight line Dirac Live runtime. The DL3 adds back in active crossovers and bass management. However the ADCs and DACs are identical. Best Regards,Carl Huff

Dirac Live Room Correction Suite vs XZT pro II which one is better?
post #14 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Dirac Live Room Correction Suite vs XZT pro II which one is better?

Sorry but ...

I have no clue. I am not familiar with the XTZ Pro II product.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #15 of 65
Can not really compare the xtz to Dirac. Xtz is more comparible to REW where as Dirac is more comparible to trinnov / audyssey. Xtz is only a measurement tool.
post #16 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

How would the DL3 compare with the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC?
DL3 is an outboard room correction device, Perfect Wave DAC is (as the name imples) a digital-to-analogue converter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Dirac Live Room Correction Suite vs XZT pro II which one is better?
Dirac is automated room correction; XTZ is a measurement program.

As Roger said, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Like asking whether a pre-amp is better than an amplifier.
post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Hello Raul,


The DL2 is a quality built 8 channel line level analog IN/OUT Dirac Live runtime in a standalone box. The connectors are standard unbalanced RCA phono jacks. The ADC and DAC circuits are identical to those in the AP20.


The DL3 adds digital TOSLINK & SPDIF inputs. We added these to the DL3 for those people looking to feed decoded digital from a CD, DVD or BluRay players. The inputs and outputs of the DL3 are balanced XLR. Neither the DL2 or DL3 has digital outputs. The DL3 also includes bass management and active crossovers. The crossovers are laid out in same fashion to those in the AP20. That is you can route a single input to 'n' number of outputs and assign HI/LO pass filters to those outputs. Output routing takes place immediately after the Dirac Live filter that is associated with a DL3 input. That means a single channel of Dirac Live services the 'n' way active crossover that has been created downstream. The software to configure the bass management and crossovers is not part of the Dirac Live software. It is a separate 'password protected' utility originally intended for the OEMs that will be relabeling the DL3 as their product.


I fully expect to see the DL3 become very popular in two channel 3 way and 4 way active systems as well as in post production studio settings.


_____________

Best Regards,

Carl Huff


Any update on the expected release timing of the DL2 or DL3? Thanks!
post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by twells View Post

Any update on the expected release timing of the DL2 or DL3? Thanks!

We are very, very close! More to come soon.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #19 of 65
Any updates?
post #20 of 65
Hi Carl,

Any update?

BTW if I l purchase the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite 7.1 will that be similar to DL 2.

Anybody use the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite can commend?

Thanks
Marcus
post #21 of 65
Hello Marcus,

Sorry that I mssed your previous post. We've recently ordered another first article of the DL2 from our manufacturing house. Hopefully this one will pass muster. If everything is go we will be shipping real product late 1st quarter.

The Dirac Live 7.1 software that you speak of is what all KAD Products will use to generate Dirac Live filters. Once you have your DL2 the DL2 will simply show up in the Dirac Live software as an additional target for the filters. It's as simple as that. The DL2 will become the runtime rather than your PC. For that matter you could be running PC filters in your office and a completely different set in your DL2 for your Home Theater. One copy of Dirac Live 7.1 software will generate filters for both.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #22 of 65
Does anyone have Dirac working reliably in a J River based Windows 8 environment?

I need to measure using one laptop (Windows 7) and my player is on a different dedicated computer (Windows 8) -- do I need one license or two?

Thanks
post #23 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Does anyone have Dirac working reliably in a J River based Windows 8 environment?

I need to measure using one laptop (Windows 7) and my player is on a different dedicated computer (Windows 8) -- do I need one license or two?

Thanks

I think you can get away with one license (Just install in both places and use same activation credentials), but you cannot transfer filters between machines. You can only transfer "projects" and then regenerate the filters. So you can do calibration on machine A, save as project, copy to appropriate directory on machine (B) and regenerate filters. You need the full product suite installed on machine (B) to do this.
post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Hello Marcus,

Sorry that I mssed your previous post. We've recently ordered another first article of the DL2 from our manufacturing house. Hopefully this one will pass muster. If everything is go we will be shipping real product late 1st quarter.

The Dirac Live 7.1 software that you speak of is what all KAD Products will use to generate Dirac Live filters. Once you have your DL2 the DL2 will simply show up in the Dirac Live software as an additional target for the filters. It's as simple as that. The DL2 will become the runtime rather than your PC. For that matter you could be running PC filters in your office and a completely different set in your DL2 for your Home Theater. One copy of Dirac Live 7.1 software will generate filters for both.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Thanks for taking the time to get this right. After all this time, rolling out a buggy product that doesn't perform to your expectations technically wouldn't serve much purpose - especially considering that its core audience is, ahem, picky.

Having said that, a couple of questions for you:
a) Are you still planning to roll out a DL3 with bass management capability, ability add low and high shelf filters, etc? And will it have matrixing (i.e. being able to feed in one sub input and matrix out multiple outputs for the physical subs)? I'm thinking of some of the functionality of a fully featured MiniDSP (such as a 10x10 HD), but without the need for a separate device and additional D/A conversion.
b) Will the DL2/3 include a Dirac Live license and the standard software bundle, or would that have to be purchased separately?
post #25 of 65
Hello Stuart,

The DL3 will be rolled out shortly after the DL2 and will include Bass Management for up to 4 subs. It will also include 4 way active crossovers for the front LCR channels (ie: 1 way, 2 way or 3 way plus subwoofer) . The DL3 will feature both unbalanced IO (RCA phono connectors) and balanced XLR connectors.

Both the DL2 and DL3 can be used as Dirac Live runtime hardware. The Dirac Live Software is described here http://www.dirac.se/en/consumer-products/dirac-rcs.aspx

A discounted version of that software will be available that only targets the DL2 & DL3. The DL2 and DL3 will include PC software that will allow you to configure the internal filters without using Dirac Live. Software from others can be used to configure the filters within the DL2 & DL3 as well. You will have options!

I will be sure to post all of the details once we have a firm ship date for the products.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Hello Stuart,

The DL3 will be rolled out shortly after the DL2 and will include Bass Management for up to 4 subs. It will also include 4 way active crossovers for the front LCR channels (ie: 1 way, 2 way or 3 way plus subwoofer) . The DL3 will feature both unbalanced IO (RCA phono connectors) and balanced XLR connectors.

A discounted version of that software will be available that only targets the DL2 & DL3. The DL2 and DL3 will include PC software that will allow you to configure the internal filters without using Dirac Live. Software from others can be used to configure the filters within the DL2 & DL3 as well. You will have options!

I will be sure to post all of the details once we have a firm ship date for the products.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Pretty cool - and I hope "software from others" includes REW.
post #27 of 65
Wonder what Dirac has up their sleve. From their CES blurb:
Quote:
Listen Like You Have Never Listened Before at Dirac-The Venetian Suite 31-230.

Dirac will demo an entirely new approach to sound optimization. Beyond the boundaries of traditional room correction and passive room treatment solutions, this new technology uses existing speakers in a way where all the speakers unite to help each individual speaker perform at its best. Intended for multi-channel playback as well as for 2-channel recordings, it will astonish.

Please come experience dramatic Innovation at CES 2014,The Venetian Suite 31-230.
post #28 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Wonder what Dirac has up their sleve. From their CES blurb:

I had meant to ping you about that...interesting to see where they're going with this, given the description. My first thought was a form of remapping, but I have Trinnov on the brain. smile.gif
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

My first thought was a form of remapping, but I have Trinnov on the brain. smile.gif
That was my first thought as well, especially when they said: "uses existing speakers in a way where all the speakers unite to help each individual speaker".
post #30 of 65
Sounds like remapping to me! Guess we have to wait till tomorrow to find out. Who's going?
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