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Cable recommendations for my new setup

post #1 of 33
2/14/11 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
I just purchased new setup for my home system.

2 x B&W CM5
1 x B&W ASW10CM
1 x Denon AVR-3311ci
1 x Panamax M5100-PM (conditioner)

Now, magnolia is telling about cabling stuff.

1) He was first telling me about HDMI cables how I should really invest money in nice cables. I thought this was false. Isn't HDMI data just bits of 0s and 1s?? What are pros and cons of higher end HDMI cables (given both 1.4a compatible) other than better built quality?

2) He suggested me another high end audio cable that costs about $75 for subwoofer and $275 for LR speakers. How much of difference would these make compared to generic cables? Any recommendations for online cables would be VERY VERY greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 33
2/14/11 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

I just purchased new setup for my home system.

2 x B&W CM5
1 x B&W ASW10CM
1 x Denon AVR-3311ci
1 x Panamax M5100-PM (conditioner)

Now, magnolia is telling about cabling stuff.

1) He was first telling me about HDMI cables how I should really invest money in nice cables. I thought this was false. Isn't HDMI data just bits of 0s and 1s?? What are pros and cons of higher end HDMI cables (given both 1.4a compatible) other than better built quality?

2) He suggested me another high end audio cable that costs about $75 for subwoofer and $275 for LR speakers. How much of difference would these make compared to generic cables? Any recommendations for online cables would be VERY VERY greatly appreciated.

Welcome to AVS and congrats on the new gear, but DO NOT buy overpriced cables from Magnolia. Go to www.monoprice.com and get your HDMI cables and speakwire from them. You'll save a fortune and you won't notice the difference.
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post #3 of 33
2/14/11 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your response. Any recommendations on speakwire in particular? I think I can find HDMIs myself, but I'm sort of newbie when it comes to audio cables.

edit: I took a quick glance at speaker wires. Why do they run so long??!!!! The shortest one they have is 50ft long.
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post #4 of 33
2/14/11 at 5:49pm
Nice setup. Check out this thread about making some nice looking custom cables for very little $. Even if you don't want to make the custom cables, the speaker wire and connectors recommended are great. Links for everything in the thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1301573
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post #5 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

Thanks for your response. Any recommendations on speakwire in particular? I think I can find HDMIs myself, but I'm sort of newbie when it comes to audio cables.

edit: I took a quick glance at speaker wires. Why do they run so long??!!!! The shortest one they have is 50ft long.

It's not individual speaker cables-it's bulk rolls that you cut to whatever length you need. It looks like you have 3 front speakers, so a 50' box should be fine. Unfortunately it looks like they're currently out of stock on the specific stuff I was going to recommend, but you can always use the in-wall speakerwire, which is a little more money and in stock. I actually use their in-wall speakerwire for all of my setups (none of which are in-wall).

The only thing you really need to know about speakerwire (and cables as well) is that you should use longer/thicker cable for long cable runs, and that the larger the number of the wire the thinner it is. If all your speakers and components are close to one another then you'll be fine going with the thinner/cheaper stuff, like this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

or this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #6 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info, dadstv.

I understand why they run so long for those cables. You cut them into length of your choice. Duh!!!


Now.. how about wires that goes into subwoofers? Do they run the same wires?
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post #7 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

It's not individual speaker cables-it's bulk rolls that you cut to whatever length you need. It looks like you have 3 front speakers, so a 50' box should be fine. Unfortunately it looks like they're currently out of stock on the specific stuff I was going to recommend, but you can always use the in-wall speakerwire, which is a little more money and in stock. I actually use their in-wall speakerwire for all of my setups (none of which are in-wall).

The only thing you really need to know about speakerwire (and cables as well) is that you should use longer/thicker cable for long cable runs, and that the larger the number of the wire the thinner it is. If all your speakers and components are close to one another then you'll be fine going with the thinner/cheaper stuff, like this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

or this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Thanks. Can you still send me the link of item that you were going to recommend me as a reference?
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post #8 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadstv View Post

Nice setup. Check out this thread about making some nice looking custom cables for very little $. Even if you don't want to make the custom cables, the speaker wire and connectors recommended are great. Links for everything in the thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1301573

Yes, there's some nice cables in that thread, but my personal favorite is the one on post #203
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post #9 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

Thanks. Can you still send me the link of item that you were going to recommend me as a reference?

I was going to specifically recommend products 2748 or 2749, and it looks like both are back in stock in a few days. Banana plug connectors are a nice touch, but not a necessity. However, they're one of the few products Monoprice sells that I don't recommend.
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post #10 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
So, this is how it looks like on the rear of CM5s.


What kind of cables do I run? Why are there 4 holes? Is it for HF and LF?


I'm just trying to learn everything before I receive my speakers.
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post #11 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

I was going to specifically recommend products 2748 or 2749, and it looks like both are back in stock in a few days. Banana plug connectors are a nice touch, but not a necessity. However, they're one of the few products Monoprice sells that I don't recommend.

I see. I will look into the cables and that customizing cable thread. Some of the cables in that thread looks incredible!
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post #12 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

I see. I will look into the cables and that customizing cable thread. Some of the cables in that thread looks incredible!

Your speakers are bi-amp/bi-wire capable, which is a little tricky for me to explain (search those terms on this forum). Personally I wouldn't worry about it and just connect standard speakerwire to the HF ports (check your speaker literature about that).
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post #13 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:33pm
Thread Starter 
I see. I just did a quick search and studied a bit (probably need more) but since I'm only going to run 2.1 setup for now, maybe I will go into bi-amplifying and bi-wiring them.
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post #14 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Your speakers are bi-amp/bi-wire capable, which is a little tricky for me to explain (search those terms on this forum). Personally I wouldn't worry about it and just connect standard speakerwire to the HF ports (check your speaker literature about that).

Those aren't 'bi-amp' capable, at least not in terms of anything that would actually provide an improvement without buying a crossover, external amp, modifying the internals of the speaker and really knowing what you are doing.

For the OP, just run regular 2 wire speaker wire to them, doesn't matter which set of connector you use, top or bottom pair, don't connect both wires to the right or left side.
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post #15 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

I see. I just did a quick search and studied a bit (probably need more) but since I'm only going to run 2.1 setup for now, maybe I will go into bi-amplifying and bi-wiring them.

Not worth the effort and you could only do one or the other. Neither will provide any benefit.
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post #16 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:42pm
Ditto on the set up. All good advice here. No need for big box wire and cabling. I've use monoprice, bluejeans, and Home Depot to meet all of my needs for a very small fraction of the cost.
One thing to note is that the polarity on the speakers is important, i.e, red to red, black to black, or minus to minus, plus to plus. Hope that wasn't too obvious or insulting.

Good luck!
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post #17 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Those aren't 'bi-amp' capable, at least not in terms of anything that would actually provide an improvement without buying a crossover, external amp, modifying the internals of the speaker and really knowing what you are doing.

For the OP, just run regular 2 wire speaker wire to them, doesn't matter which set of connector you use, top or bottom pair, don't connect both wires to the right or left side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Not worth the effort and you could only do one or the other. Neither will provide any benefit.

Oh. Good to know.

So, I'm studying the customizing the cable thread. The banana plug goes into speaker side AND amp/receiver side?

How about subwoofer? Do they use same wire connection as speakers?
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post #18 of 33
2/14/11 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

Oh. Good to know.

So, I'm studying the customizing the cable thread. The banana plug goes into speaker side AND amp/receiver side?

How about subwoofer? Do they use same wire connection as speakers?

Fair warning, this may or may not turn into an argument thread over cables...

The customized cable thread is a bit of a joke, its to poke fun at the companies that are out there selling extremely expensive cables which there is no scientific basis that supports any audible improvement. Its a way to get the $1000 cable look, without spending a ton of cash (i joke you not some companies sell $1000 speaker cables)

Back to your question: Yes your receiver and speakers will accept either bannana plugs or bare wire connections.

The subwoofer you have has an internal amplifier, meaning the connection to it is a 'line level' connection. This is normally done with RCA style coax cable. Something like this will work.

That subwoofer also allows 'speaker level' connections (meaning speaker wire). This isn't a good idea in your situation, use something like the above cable and connect it to the subwoofer output of your receiver. This allow the receiver to manage the subwoofer's volume and performance.
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post #19 of 33
2/14/11 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Fair warning, this may or may not turn into an argument thread over cables...

The customized cable thread is a bit of a joke, its to poke fun at the companies that are out there selling extremely expensive cables which there is no scientific basis that supports any audible improvement. Its a way to get the $1000 cable look, without spending a ton of cash (i joke you not some companies sell $1000 speaker cables)

Back to your question: Yes your receiver and speakers will accept either bannana plugs or bare wire connections.

The subwoofer you have has an internal amplifier, meaning the connection to it is a 'line level' connection. This is normally done with RCA style coax cable. Something like this will work.

That subwoofer also allows 'speaker level' connections (meaning speaker wire). This isn't a good idea in your situation, use something like the above cable and connect it to the subwoofer output of your receiver. This allow the receiver to manage the subwoofer's volume and performance.

Johan-I think the first thing you may want to do is start going through the manuals for your new gear. Getting an entire new setup all at once can be overwhelming. If down the road you want to customize your cabling then go for it. Good luck.
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post #20 of 33
2/14/11 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Fair warning, this may or may not turn into an argument thread over cables...

The customized cable thread is a bit of a joke, its to poke fun at the companies that are out there selling extremely expensive cables which there is no scientific basis that supports any audible improvement. Its a way to get the $1000 cable look, without spending a ton of cash (i joke you not some companies sell $1000 speaker cables)

Back to your question: Yes your receiver and speakers will accept either bannana plugs or bare wire connections.

The subwoofer you have has an internal amplifier, meaning the connection to it is a 'line level' connection. This is normally done with RCA style coax cable. Something like this will work.

That subwoofer also allows 'speaker level' connections (meaning speaker wire). This isn't a good idea in your situation, use something like the above cable and connect it to the subwoofer output of your receiver. This allow the receiver to manage the subwoofer's volume and performance.

Thanks for the advce, and much more for the questions answered!
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post #21 of 33
2/15/11 at 12:21am
Thread Starter 
By the way, I don't think anybody answered this one yet. How about HDMI? Is my original assumption correct that hdmi just passes through bits of 0s and 1s and not needing to spend money on it?
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post #22 of 33
2/15/11 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

By the way, I don't think anybody answered this one yet. How about HDMI? Is my original assumption correct that hdmi just passes through bits of 0s and 1s and not needing to spend money on it?

I have a 10 meter Parts Express HDMI cable feeding my PJ. No issues what so ever. It was about $32 shipped and CL2 (in-wall) rated.

Now if you want there is an Audio Quest HDMI of similar length for $3000 at Best Buy. It won't display a better or worse picture.
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post #23 of 33
2/15/11 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

How about HDMI? Is my original assumption correct that hdmi just passes through bits of 0s and 1s and not needing to spend money on it?

That assumption is (almost) complete correct. If you run longer lengths (25'? 50?'), it will probably pay to use a cable with a thicker gauge. If the cable will experience mechanical stress, it will probably pay to use a cable with sturdier construction.

A marginal cable -- i.e., defective but partially functional -- will work some of the time but not all the time. Other than that, either the data gets through or it doesn't.
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post #24 of 33
2/15/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

That subwoofer also allows 'speaker level' connections (meaning speaker wire).

Doesn't 'speaker level' usually mean 'accepts (or requires) an amplified signal'? I don't think I've ever seen the phrase refer to the type of physical connection.
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post #25 of 33
2/15/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilcar Barca View Post

Doesn't 'speaker level' usually mean 'accepts (or requires) an amplified signal'? I don't think I've ever seen the phrase refer to the type of physical connection.

Yep, but an amplified signal will be carried on speaker wire. Never seen a speaker level signal sent through RCA cables.
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post #26 of 33
2/15/11 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
I placed an order of those parts from custom speaker wires thread and RCA style coax xianthax suggested. I will make the cables and connect them once I get my speakers. Wish me luck, guys!
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post #27 of 33
2/15/11 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan81718 View Post

I placed an order of those parts from custom speaker wires thread and RCA style coax xianthax suggested. I will make the cables and connect them once I get my speakers. Wish me luck, guys!

Good luck--feel free to post any questions about the DIY cables in that thread.
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post #28 of 33
2/16/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Yep, but an amplified signal will be carried on speaker wire. Never seen a speaker level signal sent through RCA cables.

I always believed the only real difference between a speaker wire and an RCA cable was the terminators. It isn't so?

I guess I still have more to learn, nearly 35 years after I bought my first stereo at a high-end shop. (N.B. They used and sold lamp cord for speaker wire.)
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post #29 of 33
2/16/11 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilcar Barca View Post

I always believed the only real difference between a speaker wire and an RCA cable was the terminators. It isn't so?

There is really no such thing as an "RCA cable", just various types of cables terminated with RCA (phono) plugs. You can have RCA plugs on the ends of 12 AWG zip cord for use as speaker cable. This is not very common nowadays except on low end gear. And you can have RCA plugs on the ends of coaxial cable for use as line level cables to connect various devices to your AVR. This is what some people refer to as "RCA cables".
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post #30 of 33
2/16/11 at 4:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

Fair warning, this may or may not turn into an argument thread over cables...

The customized cable thread is a bit of a joke, its to poke fun at the companies that are out there selling extremely expensive cables which there is no scientific basis that supports any audible improvement. Its a way to get the $1000 cable look, without spending a ton of cash (i joke you not some companies sell $1000 speaker cables)

Back to your question: Yes your receiver and speakers will accept either bannana plugs or bare wire connections.

The subwoofer you have has an internal amplifier, meaning the connection to it is a 'line level' connection. This is normally done with RCA style coax cable. Something like this will work.

That subwoofer also allows 'speaker level' connections (meaning speaker wire). This isn't a good idea in your situation, use something like the above cable and connect it to the subwoofer output of your receiver. This allow the receiver to manage the subwoofer's volume and performance.

i was wondering about the subwoofer cable.. i just need one cable, right?
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