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Looking for LEGAL digital to analog cable boxes.

post #1 of 26
2/16/11 at 7:58am
Thread Starter 
I'm hoping that I posted this question in the correct area. I did post it within another area and a long time AVS member suggested that I post it in another area.

I have Comcast cable, and although I have several digital and HD TVs, I also have several analog TVs and other recording devices that I still would like to use for a while longer.

Since the beginning of 2011, Comcast has been quickly taking more and more of their analog signals and now transmitting them in digital and HD now. This is a problem with my various analog devices now. I now only have access to roughly about a 6th or less of my cable analog channels that I originally had. I fear the remaining analog channels will be converted to digital and I will not be able to view or record at all on them. I had plans to slowly replace them all over time and I didn't really expect to lose channels like this.

EXCEPT for the premium channels, none of the cable digital channels are scrambled or filtered on my digital or HD TVs, so I am able to pick them up perfectly fine without any problem on any of digital devices. I also use a LEGAL Comcast cable box for one of my ReplayTV units so that I can record premium channels like HBO and Showtime.

My question is: are there any LEGAL digital cable boxes that I can purchase for my analog TVs and recording devices, so that I can LEGALLY pick up the digital channels that are not premium and send it to my analog Replay units?

I've heard they need to be digital to analog boxes, and I do have a couple of those digital to analog government boxes that I purchased at Wal-Mart, but I found out they only work for antenna signals and not for cable signals.

I also heard that comcast would give me two free digital boxes they would activate to use, but I would still need several more. I know that I could rent more activated boxes, but before I am forced into doing that, I want to find out where I might be able to purchase LEGAL cable boxes that I don't have to activate that can to pick up LEGAL digital signals that my digital TVs can already pick up.

I've looked on eBay, but I'm concerned those Scientific Atlantic boxes could be hot or illegal, and if I did get any, they could be turned off electronically by the cable company, and then made useless.

Again, the digital tuners on my existing HD and digital TVs do not have filters or have to descramble any of the non-premium digital channels. I hope that I was able to provide enough information towards what I'm looking for.
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post #2 of 26
2/17/11 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarrington View Post


EXCEPT for the premium channels, none of the cable digital channels are scrambled or filtered on my digital or HD TVs, so I am able to pick them up perfectly fine without any problem on any of digital devices. I also use a LEGAL Comcast cable box for one of my ReplayTV units so that I can record premium channels like HBO and Showtime.

My question is: are there any LEGAL digital cable boxes that I can purchase for my analog TVs and recording devices, so that I can LEGALLY pick up the digital channels that are not premium and send it to my analog Replay units?

You're looking for a QAM tuner device. Either a standalone or in something else, like a DVD recorder. It's the same digital cable tuner in your HDTVs. They're also perfectly legal.

There aren't many standalones, though, maybe a few models here and there. DVD recorders with them are more readily available, but you'd be limited to standard definition (might not be a problem with analog equipment, though.)

Also, keep in mind that while you might have unencrypted channels now, that may change in the future with no notice. The only things Comcast (and all other cable companies) are obligated to send without encryption are the local network affiliates (NBC, Fox, etc.) So cross your fingers that your digital lineup stays in the clear.
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post #3 of 26
2/17/11 at 4:27am
Quote:


I also heard that comcast would give me two free digital boxes they would activate to use, but I would still need several more. I know that I could rent more activated boxes, but before I am forced into doing that, I want to find out where I might be able to purchase LEGAL cable boxes that I don't have to activate that can to pick up LEGAL digital signals that my digital TVs can already pick up.

How many more boxes are you talking about?
How much does Comcast want to rent additional boxes per?
Anything that you may find with a QAM tuner will cost a little bit.
You will only get the channels that are in the clear and that can vary from day to day.
If you want the ESPN's etc there is nothing that you can purchase that will work.
Again price out devices with QAM tuners vrs renting do the math then decide!!

Good luck with it.
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post #4 of 26
2/17/11 at 6:23am
Another point of potential interest. The Comcast boxes will map channel numbers to the Cable guide. A QAM tuner will use physical channel frequencies and need to be re-scanned on a regular basis as the cable company moves things around.

Echo: I would not count on the channels remaining in the clear very long, so any purchase may be a very short term solution.
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post #5 of 26
2/17/11 at 7:43am
That's a good point, too. You're looking at around $100 or more for each QAM tuner (I've never seen one for less than that at least.) If you're upgrading the TVs later, it's a pretty hefty investment that you're not going to recoup. Even worse if Comcast decides to encrypt channels, forcing you to get cable boxes anyway.
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post #6 of 26
2/17/11 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post
That's a good point, too. You're looking at around $100 or more for each QAM tuner (I've never seen one for less than that at least.)
You can get the RTC1100HD, which does clear-QAM, and is the same box as the Centronics, on ebay for a "buy it now" price of $54.90, with $20. shipping.
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post #7 of 26
2/22/11 at 4:11pm
If not now in your area, very soon Comcast will encrypt all channels except for locals, public service/gov/edu, shopping, and maybe WGN America or TBS. Everything else will be encrypted.
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post #8 of 26
2/22/11 at 5:35pm
I have a kworld SA290-QLE atsc/qam tuner that I got from amazon. The current price is $68 which includes shipping. The build quality is not the best, but it works. You could read the reveiws on amazon to get more info. The box does not output analog, but instead outputs high def through component cables or standard def through composite cables so an older tv would need composite inputs.
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post #9 of 26
2/22/11 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

If not now in your area, very soon Comcast will encrypt all channels except for locals, public service/gov/edu, shopping, and maybe WGN America or TBS. Everything else will be encrypted.

Just wanted to echo what Ken H. said. The Comcast encryption roll out has been gradual but will eventually affect everyone.
Just don't want you to waste your money.
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post #10 of 26
2/26/11 at 10:04am
Am I missing something here? The DTAs are what you need for your analog TVs and Replays, you get two free and additional ones are only $1.99 each per month. Can get all the expanded basic channels + some extra ones with these.
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post #11 of 26
2/26/11 at 10:12am
I think he was trying to avoid monthly fees. He said he needed several.

Granted, the DTAs are probably cheaper in the long run, but he might not have considered exactly how much standalone QAM tuners are.
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post #12 of 26
2/27/11 at 7:49am
Agreed, and I don't see why there aren't any DTAs available for sale. They don't cost a lot, obviously.
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post #13 of 26
2/27/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Agreed, and I don't see why there aren't any DTAs available for sale. They don't cost a lot, obviously.

It's not the cost, it's the cable provider wanting to maintain control. Keep in mind that cable converter boxes, DVRs and DTAs all have unique electronic ideentification numbers for activation and product tracking and such devices must be activated on one's account. A "purchased" DTA (or other device) would be a product that has been activated on someone else's account that there might be an outstanding balance due that has to be paid off before the DTA (or other device) could be activated on another account. The cable company would also charge an "activation fee" and a montly fee even for a "purchased" DTA. There's no way to get around that.

I've read that a DTA costs the cable company around $35 but they could claim that the "replacement fee" for a lost or stolen DTA is $300.
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post #14 of 26
2/28/11 at 4:23am
No, a "purchased" DTA in my book would be a brand new one that you buy anywhere (maybe even from Comcast), and has never been on anyone's account.

But as usual with STBs, the few players out there never see a retail market for these things, for whatever reason. I think $1.99/mo. rental is a big reason in this case.
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post #15 of 26
2/28/11 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

No, a "purchased" DTA in my book would be a brand new one that you buy anywhere (maybe even from Comcast), and has never been on anyone's account.

But as usual with STBs, the few players out there never see a retail market for these things, for whatever reason. I think $1.99/mo. rental is a big reason in this case.

So many reasons. To retail a product (DTA or STB) they would need to package it, market it, negotiate shelf space for it, ship it and support it across multiple platforms with novice users, and warranty it.

Further, the DTAs are only legal for cable companies to use because of waivers from the "separable security" rule which might not extend to a retail product. Once you are into retail, you are into the CableCard devices with separable security.
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post #16 of 26
2/28/11 at 5:42am
Any type of stand alone recorder you buy is going away, you can't even find them in stores anymore. The only stand alone digital compatible recorders I've seen w/o a monthly fees are a TIVO with lifetime subscription or buy a tuner card for a PC. A tuner card that does digital can be bought for $50 or so and will allow you to record the clear QAM feeds your TV's get. Windows7 and Some versions of Vista already have Windows media center built in, you just need the tuner. Many of us HTPC users get are content online and skip cable altogether, see HTPC forum for more details.
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post #17 of 26
2/28/11 at 6:38am


A 7th generation, standalone, no fee SD HDD-DVD recorder here (Magnavox MDR515H/F7).

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post #18 of 26
2/28/11 at 6:46am
Is the original poster still with us?
If so to sum this up anything that you might find will only work for channels in the clear.
That number may shrink at any time.

How many boxes do you need?

If they will give you 2 boxes for free you have to weigh the difference of renting additional boxes vrs buying them and remember your in the clear channels will probably shrink down to the locals!!
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post #19 of 26
2/28/11 at 9:31am
But the problem is that you can't buy them so there is no comparison, and while the OP says all his channels are still in the clear on QAM today, that is likely not going to be the case when his area is converted to World of More (or whatever they're calling it now). All of those clear SD expanded basic channels will be encrypted, leaving him at best with the HD and SD locals.

This is nothing new for Comcast and there is no one right answer to his question, because encryption means either Cablecards or Comcast's STBs, or both.
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post #20 of 26
2/28/11 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

So many reasons. To retail a product (DTA or STB) they would need to package it, market it, negotiate shelf space for it, ship it and support it across multiple platforms with novice users, and warranty it.

Yeah, I see the argument that Motorola and Cisco are ignoring the market of consumers wanting to buy cable boxes, but I always ask "is there a sustainable market?" Those are huge companies that have certainly done market studies.

It's probably more profitable to just negotiate a bulk order with a cable company, have some return agreement for defective or obsolete boxes, ship them to a few cableco distribution points, and let them worry about all the other hassles.
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post #21 of 26
2/28/11 at 11:21am
All Cisco/Moto and cableco's need to do is provide a standalone "decryption" box, which would pass the "legal" decrypted signal to the TV's internal QAM tuner (much like an external cablecard unit). But... that would make sense and decrease monthly profit(s).
Sorry, I had a momentary lapse of reason.
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post #22 of 26
2/28/11 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post



A 7th generation, standalone, no fee SD HDD-DVD recorder here (Magnavox MDR515H/F7).


One of these may be perfect for my in-laws who have regular cable. How does it get guide data or does it program like a VCR Time/Channel?
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post #23 of 26
2/28/11 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

One of these may be perfect for my in-laws who have regular cable. How does it get guide data or does it program like a VCR Time/Channel?

No guide, but its timers are pretty flexible.
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post #24 of 26
2/28/11 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

One of these may be perfect for my in-laws who have regular cable. How does it get guide data or does it program like a VCR Time/Channel?

Here's the help file on timer recording... pretty simple, like a VCR.
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post #25 of 26
2/28/11 at 7:50pm
Seems complicated for somebody 60yrs old to operate, not sure they would ever use it. Perhaps I'm just spoiled with the HTPC, find the program in the guide an hit the red button once to record, twice to record the series. They probably wouldn't be able to use a HTPC either, maybe they are better off just getting the DVR box from the cable co.

For the OP it looks like the Maganavox might be an ideal solution. DTA converter and HDD recorder built into one device.
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post #26 of 26
2/28/11 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

They probably wouldn't be able to use a HTPC either, maybe they are better off just getting the DVR box from the cable co.

That's by far the easiest solution. They're designed from the ground up to use a guide. DVRs rule for timeshifting, as that's all they really do (that, and view encrypted channels.) If they for some reason also want a DVD copy a recorder can be added as sort of an outboard burner.

DVD recorders haven't had any sort of guide since the demise of the TVGOS models a few years back, and it's unlikely they'll ever gain the function again since they're almost at the end of their product life. So any that are left are going to be timer based. But I would think a 60 year old who has done timeshifting here and there would at least be familiar with a VCR, which has timers similar to the Magnavox.
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