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Official: Denon BDP-2012UD - Page 3

post #61 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

thanks for your input. I will check out more on James River Media Center 15, I've seen it mentioned a few times on this forum

JRiver MC 15 can also be used as a DLNA server!
post #62 of 126
Well said Winston9332.
post #63 of 126
For those interested, B&H Photo has indicated the DBP-2012UDCI is now in stock and ready to ship.

I called Crutchfield, who also indicated they have some available in their warehouse, but currently not posted on their website.

Crutchfield is offering at MSRP, free shipping. B&H for less, plus shipping.
post #64 of 126
I purchased the Denon a few days ago and spent about 8 hours testing and evaluating the player. The player is well built and reasonably heavy at 11.5 lbs. The loader tray is thin, yet sturdy and operates smoothly. Denon says the front panel is aluminum and it appears to be a thin metal fascia bonded to a plastic substrate. It is hard to tell, but regardless, it looks good. Overall, I’d say the built quality is on par with my Oppo 83; the loader is much better.

I tested deinterlacing and scaling performance with the Spears& Munsil disc and recent versions of the HQV Blu-ray and SD DVD test discs. Excellent results were achieved except for the 2:2 SD tests, which the player failed. The Oppo 83 passes this test. The Digital Noise Reduction was noteworthy and performed well. The Oppo 83 is border line at best on the noise reduction tests.

I was not satisfied with the picture adjustments. I was able to get it close to my liking, but the adjustments were too coarse to really fine tune the picture. And, the brightness range is 0 to 12, no minus setting and I needed to decrease brightness. My Oppo 83 and Sony players do not require any adjustments as a comparison.

I stated the loader was smooth and sturdy and it is, but with 2 DVDs and one Blu-ray, 3 out of 7 discs the drive would vibrate and make a grinding noise. I used the same discs in my other players with no problems. It appears the dive is very sensitive to disc tolerances.

The menu and setup leave something to be desired in my opinion. Some settings are not as intuitive as they could be. Also the player is slower than I expected. From power on to “no disc” on the player’s display was twice as long as the Oppo as a comparison. Overall, time is not a big issue for me.

I expected the Denon to better the Oppo 83 considering this player was so long in coming and uses the newer 2015 ABT chip over the Oppo 83's 2010 chip. I guess implementation is everything. I think any problems could be corrected or improved via firmware. I was looking for a player to replace my Oppo 83; and I do want the 93. As is, this is not the player for me.
post #65 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Tango View Post

As background, my display (front projector) is calibrated and passes all the Spears & Munsil setup and calibration tests. The settings are dead on using the Oppo 83, Sony BDP-S1000ES and S5000ES, as well several other DVD and Blu-ray players. I do use the Oppo 83 as my reference standard. I can change out any of these players and no other adjustments are needed. However, with the Denon, I immediately noticed a decrease in picture quality. Using several Blu-rays and DVDs, I looked at real world performance. However, the picture looked washed out, colors faded, with a push towards green in the gray scale. This is the first player I’ve owned where I was required to make in player adjustments to brightness, contrast, color, etc. I was able to get it close to my liking, but the adjustments were too coarse to really fine tune the picture. And, the brightness range is 0 to plus, no minus setting.

Is this even a fair way to evaluate the player's PQ perf? I'm "just" asking. I'm hardly a videophile but, even after setting aside my perhaps empty curiosity over the two (older) Sonys and OPPO's vid perf being identical, my understanding is that your PJ's abilities and the players' PQ perfs are two different things. In other words, the PJ passing the S&M tests is one thing and the players' purported "reference" performance upon calibrating each for brightness, tint, color, sharpness and contrast is another.

My understanding is that each new input source requires its own calibration. Comparing the Denon to those other players' PQ perfs will tell you how different the decks may be under the same PJ cal/settings, but that doesn't tell us how well the Denon may perform if the PJ is properly calibrated for *that* player. You didn't mention a proper cal of the Denon; rather, it sounds like you tweaked its in-player adjustments to get it as close to the purported reference PQ of the other players. I haven't continued to follow the 83 owners' thread but when I did I recall there being a school of owners who advocated leaving all of that deck's in-player PQ settings to zero and making any needed adjustments to one's respective PJ. I'd be inclined to think that if that's good for the 83 it's good/at least worth a proper attempt with the new Denon.

Maybe there's just a large element of personal taste at play here? I'm surprised that you're dissatisfied with the Marvel (sic) solution (I assume you're referring to Qdeo not comics). I've heard little other than raves. But I'm also confused: you say you have the 83 which I think uses VRS from Anchor Bay. It's the 93 that uses Marvell.
post #66 of 126
Paul,
The point I was trying to make is that the Denon required me to make in player adjustments and that the adjustments still did not allow me to achieve a satisfactory (to my liking) PQ. It may have if the adjustments had a finer scale. For example, changing a control 1 increment was not enough correction, but the next was too much. The Oppo 83, to me, has better picture quality at its zero settings. I was looking for a player to better the Oppo 83--this one did not in my opinion. I considered some type of color space issue in the video path--player through Integra DHC 80.2 to projector. I can not confirm or deny it. Yes, both the Denon (2015) and Oppo (2010) use ABT, but the implementation can make a big difference. I have to conclude Oppo has done a better job at fine tuning performance. I will say I am critical on certain aspects of picture quality such as brightness, contrast, and gray scale. Others may be less so. I expected more and did not get it. So I returned the player. However, the grinding noise and vibration were the real show stoppers.
Yes, the Oppo 93 gets rave reviews. But I think ABT vs Marvel does better deinterlacing for SD DVD.
post #67 of 126
But did your cal your PJ again after putting the Denon in your rig? Or did you just start tweaking the in-player Denon settings in an attempt to get it to conform to the performance of the other decks? I think I understand your points, but mine is WRT to absence of true reference. Def seems to me that 'preference versus reference' is at play here.
post #68 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Tango View Post

Paul,
The point I was trying to make is that the Denon required me to make in player adjustments and that the adjustments still did not allow me to achieve a satisfactory (to my liking) PQ. It may have if the adjustments had a finer scale. For example, changing a control 1 increment was not enough correction, but the next was too much. The Oppo 83, to me, has better picture quality at its zero settings. I was looking for a player to better the Oppo 83--this one did not in my opinion. I considered some type of color space issue in the video path--player through Integra DHC 80.2 to projector. I can not confirm or deny it. Yes, both the Denon (2015) and Oppo (2010) use ABT, but the implementation can make a big difference. I have to conclude Oppo has done a better job at fine tuning performance. I will say I am critical on certain aspects of picture quality such as brightness, contrast, and gray scale. Others may be less so. I expected more and did not get it. So I returned the player. However, the grinding noise and vibration were the real show stoppers.
Yes, the Oppo 93 gets rave reviews. But I think ABT vs Marvel does better deinterlacing for SD DVD.

This is interesting. So did you return the denon dbp-2012 in favor of the oppo 93 or 83?
post #69 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

But did your cal your PJ again after putting the Denon in your rig? Or did you just start tweaking the in-player Denon settings in an attempt to get it to conform to the performance of the other decks? I think I understand your points, but mine is WRT to absence of true reference. Def seems to me that 'preference versus reference' is at play here.

No. Here's why. I have 3 players in my system. The Oppo 83, primary blu-ray player; Denon 2930CI, primary for DVDs that benefit from HQV noise reduction, SACD & DVD audio; and a Toshiba HD DVD player. Each has excellent picture quality at default settings with my current PJ calibration. If I calibrated the PJ for the Denon 2012 (which I would do if it was my only player) it would affect all 3 other players negatively.
post #70 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

This is interesting. So did you return the denon dbp-2012 in favor of the oppo 93 or 83?

I already own the Oppo 83. I was hoping the Denon would better the Oppo 83 and it does in some ways like DNR. But the Oppo 83, in my system, still does a better job.
post #71 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Tango View Post

No. Here's why. I have 3 players in my system. The Oppo 83, primary blu-ray player; Denon 2930CI, primary for DVDs that benefit from HQV noise reduction, SACD & DVD audio; and a Toshiba HD DVD player. Each has excellent picture quality at default settings with my current PJ calibration. If I calibrated the PJ for the Denon 2012 (which I would do if it was my only player) it would affect all 3 other players negatively.

That's of course fine--I understand the practical matter of the tedium of re-calibrating the PJ for the Denon. It would different if the PJ had enough individually calibratable inputs for each deck but I guess it doesn't.

But that practical concern and personal preference aside, the science of the matter as I understand it is that this is not a fair evaluation of the Denon on its own (de)merits. It's a comparative analysis using other players with different chipsets as "reference."
post #72 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
That's of course fine--I understand the practical matter of the tedium of re-calibrating the PJ for the Denon. It would different if the PJ had enough individually calibratable inputs for each deck but I guess it doesn't.

But that practical concern and personal preference aside, the science of the matter as I understand it is that this is not a fair evaluation of the Denon on its own (de)merits. It's a comparative analysis using other players with different chipsets as "reference."
OK, I understand your point. I agree it is a comparative analysis as are many pro reviews (my comments were meant to report my experience only and not a definitive review). At least one of the players I mentioned is considered by many to be reference. I'm sure if I calibrated only for the Denon it would be fine.
post #73 of 126
i am looking into replacing my 2010ci with this model simply for the networking ip control capability. any owners have an opinion to this? i have a 2312ci rec on order and want to run one app for the two devices for my theater. of course if picture and performance are not on par with the 2010 then its a no-go. any pq or harware issues to note?
post #74 of 126
I have had this player for a couple weeks now and enjoying it. However, I was curious if anyone had a code or mod to make this a region free player? I remember using this forum to find a remote control code to accomplish this on my old Denon 3930CI DVD player.

Any help would be appreciated!
post #75 of 126
Can any owners comment on the vibration noise experienced by Charlie tango? I'm thinking quite seriously about this player, but vibration noise would be very bad.

Also, how's the speed? Can it handle the notoriously difficult T2 Skynet edition reasonably quickly? (for example my now defunct pioneer player was very, very, very slow with this title...)
post #76 of 126
I've had mine for a few days and haven't noticed any disc vibration. Actually, it's one of the quietest transports I've heard.

The player detected a firmware update over the network as soon as I started it up, so I'm running the latest firmware. Overall image quality is fantastic, though I am disappointed in a few things:

1. No option to select between YCbCr 4:2:2 or YCbCr 4:4:4, just a choice of YCbCr, RGB video and RGB PC. I'm assuming it's passing 4:4:4 because my display has problems with that and the chroma test patterns on the Spears & Munsil disc look terrible on YCbCr, so I'm using RGB video. Based on my tests with the Oppo BDP-93, the best results come from 4:2:2 on my display, so not having this option is unfortunate.

2. It crops one pixel off the bottom of the image when outputting 1080p, both in forced 1080p and Source Direct. Not a deal breaker because you'd never notice during actual programming, just a bit silly not to get something this basic correct.

Subjectively speaking, the image quality is as good as the Oppo BDP-93 it has (temporarily?) replaced, and I think I prefer the SD deinterlacing/scaling of the ABT-2015 to the 93's Qdeo. Disc loading is as quick and menus are as responsive as the 93. Avatar Extended Collector's Edition, which can be slow to load on some players, loads quickly and has very responsive menus. It's a very fast player.

Interestingly, this player trips up on a few problem discs in the same spots as the 93 does. These discs include Deathly Hallows and Tora! Tora! Tora!, which both have momentary hiccups on the Denon and the Oppo. My PS3 slim has no such problems with these discs.
post #77 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

I've had mine for a few days and haven't noticed any disc vibration. Actually, it's one of the quietest transports I've heard.

The player detected a firmware update over the network as soon as I started it up, so I'm running the latest firmware. Overall image quality is fantastic, though I am disappointed in a few things:

1. No option to select between YCbCr 4:2:2 or YCbCr 4:4:4, just a choice of YCbCr, RGB video and RGB PC. I'm assuming it's passing 4:4:4 because my display has problems with that and the chroma test patterns on the Spears & Munsil disc look terrible on YCbCr, so I'm using RGB video. Based on my tests with the Oppo BDP-93, the best results come from 4:2:2 on my display, so not having this option is unfortunate.

2. It crops one pixel off the bottom of the image when outputting 1080p, both in forced 1080p and Source Direct. Not a deal breaker because you'd never notice during actual programming, just a bit silly not to get something this basic correct.

Subjectively speaking, the image quality is as good as the Oppo BDP-93 it has (temporarily?) replaced, and I think I prefer the SD deinterlacing/scaling of the ABT-2015 to the 93's Qdeo. Disc loading is as quick and menus are as responsive as the 93. Avatar Extended Collector's Edition, which can be slow to load on some players, loads quickly and has very responsive menus. It's a very fast player.

Interestingly, this player trips up on a few problem discs in the same spots as the 93 does. These discs include Deathly Hallows and Tora! Tora! Tora!, which both have momentary hiccups on the Denon and the Oppo. My PS3 slim has no such problems with these discs.

Okay, good to know! Thanks!
post #78 of 126
I discovered another annoying issue last night. While watching Star Trek TOS on BD, the angle marker kept popping up on every scene that offers an alternate effects shot even though I have the marker turned off in the player's settings.

I can't find it now, but I could've sworn someone reported the same problem on another Denon player at one point. I've reported the problem to Denon through their online help section.
post #79 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

I discovered another annoying issue last night. While watching Star Trek TOS on BD, the angle marker kept popping up on every scene that offers an alternate effects shot even though I have the marker turned off in the player's settings.

I can't find it now, but I could've sworn someone reported the same problem on another Denon player at one point. I've reported the problem to Denon through their online help section.

I believe the JVC XV BP1 has this issue too.
post #80 of 126
Has anyone tried streaming video files to the 2012 via DLNA? I was curious to know if this works well, and what sort of formats work?
post #81 of 126
Looking at the price of the 2012 I'm surprised more are not spending the additional money for the Oppo 95. From what I have read the 95 appears to be much better built, has a better feature set and possibly better analog performance (if desired). With that you get excellent service from Oppo that you would never see from Denon. All this and a very nice looking metal faceplate.

Bill
post #82 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Looking at the price of the 2012 I'm surprised more are not spending the additional money for the Oppo 95. From what I have read the 95 appears to be much better built, has a better feature set and possibly better analog performance (if desired). With that you get excellent service from Oppo that you would never see from Denon. All this and a very nice looking metal faceplate.

Bill

Bill,

I was considering a DBP-2012UDCI, but the scarcity and Denon dragging their feet to release the unit kind of took it out of the running and upon further comparison the BDP-95 just offered much more for the price difference in my opinion. Hence, I purchased the BDP-95. However, the DBP-2012UDCI would have fit nicely with my AVR-A100 and those that take the plunge on the DBP-2012UDCI should be very happy with it. I am glad I don't suffer from brand loyalty.


Willie
post #83 of 126
Does anyone know how the DVD/DVD-A/SACD performance of this player will compare to Onkyo's flagship DV-SP1000 from 2004?
post #84 of 126
hi AVS scene , i am interested in buying the Denon DBP-2012 for both Blu-Ray and DVD playback.

I have one question about DVD playback , i have region 1,2,4 DVD's and wonder if the DBP-2012 is region free ?


any info helps
post #85 of 126
Been playing around with my new DBP-2012. I have noticed that the video noise reduction with Blu-Ray is nothing to write home about.

Actually the noise reduction built into my Samsung plasma display (PS50C7000) beats it slightly. If I switch off all noise reduction in the DVD player and only enable noise reduction within the plasma display, I get slightly better results than doing it the other way around.

To demonstrate my point, I use Tron Legacy BD (2D version). At 00:35:40 and 00:36:05 there is a particularly noisy scene where Renzler defeats Sam Flynn in disc wars. My plasma N.R. can render the scene almost completely smooth yet sharp with no artifacts. The Denon on the other hand, even with the 3DNR set to +6, still leaves more visible noise in the scene.

When doing NR tests, keep in mind that NR is only applied during playback, not while paused, so to see just how much noise is actually being removed, you have to quickly jump from play/pause/play/pause.... you get the drift

Keen to hear from other owners.
post #86 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by s8n View Post

I have one question about DVD playback , i have region 1,2,4 DVD's and wonder if the DBP-2012 is region free ?

I can't speak for other countries, but the Australian DBP-2012UD version is designated as DVD Region 4, BluRay Region B as per what's on the box. Can't confirm or deny if it will play any region as I don't have any DVDs from overseas.

PS
This site lists the DPB-2012UDCI model as being region free, so go figure
w . w . w . world-import.com/denondvd.htm

(I can't post proper hyperlinks on this forum until I made at least 3 posts )
post #87 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by s8n View Post

hi AVS scene , i am interested in buying the Denon DBP-2012 for both Blu-Ray and DVD playback.

I have one question about DVD playback , i have region 1,2,4 DVD's and wonder if the DBP-2012 is region free ?

any info helps

I also have the Australian version. I'll see if I can remember to stick a region 1 or 2 disc in it when I get home tonight.
post #88 of 126
Are there any ways to play BDs saved on HDD (bdmv folder), without a loss of chapters, menus, extras? For example, Oppo has no problem with it by saving files into AVCHD folder. With my denon 2012 I managed to play mt2s files, however it misses menus, chapters etc...
post #89 of 126
I have just demo'd the UK spec of this player. The audio quality of the multichannel analogues is very good.

However most blu rays I put in , the transport makes a horrible vibrating/ buzzing sound. I note soneone else has commented on this too.

Very disappointing. I suspect it will plague some units.
post #90 of 126
Glad to see some feedback on this unit going up. I've had mine for a few months now and I hate to say it but I am not thrilled with it.

The noise levels on some Blu-rays is distracting - I've tried changing the settings and the results are only slightly better. I expected pristine quality, but the video is harsh-looking for the most part. Older films on Blu-ray have been very disappopinting. My old Panasonic player does better.

The tray vibration noise has only happened to me once, and I just reloaded the disc -twice- and it went away. A little scary for "down the road".

As far as sound goes...I'm disappointed here too. I'm a Denon lover - mostly for the sound. I've had no fewer than 6 Denon AVR's over the years, and currently run the AVR-4306 in my living room 2 channel system, and the AVR-3808 in my basement home theater setup. Have Paradigm Reference speakers, and have done the Audyssey calibration too.

But...I find the sound harsh, cold...almost brash. Denon always has a "warm" sound to me, so this is perplexing. Regular CDs sound so-so, Sacds good and DVD-A good, but I wanted great. I have a DVD-3930 from several years back, and I think it sounds great - it was in the same system with the same calibration. I just thought I'd get an all-in-one with the Blu-ray capabilities, so that's why I replaced it.

I don't hate the 2012, just don't love it. I'm pretty disappointed at this point.
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