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BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater - Page 50

post #1471 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Oh yea...I know that feeling. During a demo at my place my htpc stopped bitstreaming and switched to downmixing to stereo. Only ONE person except me noticed differences. Phew!

Wow, very lucky! That could have been disastrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

I should also add that while a Remux can also be classified as a Rip, I wouldn't classify a Rip as a Remux at all. A standard MKV rip can be anywhere from 8-12GBs in size; while a Remux can be anywhere from 25-40GBs. To save on disc space, the majority of my collection are standard rips. Gemstones like Avatar and Dark Knight Rises are solely kept as a remux. Not sure anyone really needs a 40GB remux of Horrible Bosses or Bridesmaids tongue.gif

What is important to note that when A/B testing a Remux to a disc, they should be identical in SQ and PQ. Interestingly, most of the Rips I have compared to their bluray counterpart, I would venture to say that the differences are negligible.

Sarge, you have given me much to think about, as far as remuxing goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Brolic,

I have seen this quite frequently in the past in the early days of MKV rips (over 4 years ago). This is typically attributed to a bad rip. I am not sure what causes this (ripper settings, loss of caching while importing the rip, lost data packets, etc). It is best to delete the file and retry. Trust me, you do not want to be stuck with a file you can only pause and not scan through. After making it through half the film only to accidentally hit the rewind button (which crashed the file), I vowed never again to keep corrupted files like that.

I did a bit of research and found that hard drive read speeds might not be able to keep up with the skip request. Im currently using WD Caviar Green (wouldn't be my first choise today, but it was the only choice for me back in 09), which isn't the fastest kid on the block. I'd like to avoid re-ripping, as i'm about 15 rips in after re-ripping the first five after realizing the hd audio tracks dont rip by default.Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Ha, ha... When ever you're gonna show off your system, always, always, always demo the system to yourself and make sure there aren't any issues first. Back in the days when I use to mess with Media portal as media front end, I wanted to show off to my friends how awesome my setup was and make them jealous. The demo was going pretty good and they were impressed (my ego was off the charts) then I tried to play a HD Mkv file that I downloaded with the latest build of FFDShow.. Bam... Windows blue-screened.. Had to do a reboot. The dummy in me wanted to still finish strong so I tried the play the file again.. another Blue-screen.

I actually did a number of dry runs, but they were all from the start with no skipping. Next time, I need to do a dry run of the actual demo scene, to discover potential issues like this. Wow....two BSOD's? That's just rough!
post #1472 of 1871
I use 10 WD Green 3TBs and have never had an issue with them. 4 of em are connected to a usb2.0 enclosure! Wouldn't recommend greens though if you are doing raid ( I just use jbod)
post #1473 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Sarge, you have given me much to think about, as far as remuxing goes.
I did a bit of research and found that hard drive read speeds might not be able to keep up with the skip request. Im currently using WD Caviar Green (wouldn't be my first choise today, but it was the only choice for me back in 09), which isn't the fastest kid on the block. I'd like to avoid re-ripping, as i'm about 15 rips in after re-ripping the first five after realizing the hd audio tracks dont rip by default.Thoughts?

Brolic,

Before continuing to rip your media, I would highly recommend that you experiment with one file only until you figure out which method and software works best for the procedure you want to follow for ripping. This can include full chapters, special features, language tracks, subtitles, etc. The reason my remux files are typically smaller at 20-30GB per file is because I only care about the bare bones material and audio track (sometimes the commentary track). I usually discard the foreign language subtitles/audiotracks, features, etc. My friend and I were discussing this same strategy of trial and error this past weekend after demo'ing some new remux files. It may sound like a lot of work, but it's best to perfect this method now on this one file than import 300 bad files only to find out they all have a glitch somewhere.

When there is a reference movie that has a lot of material that I know I will love, say Prometheus, I will keep that on bluray and have a bare bones rip at 12GBs for backup. The other caveat is that I am still experimenting with 3D rips. While I have not spent too much time with this, I find the media playback of a 3D rip (or remux) appears upconverted and less natural than the actual bluray. These are primarily the blurays that I buy these days to keep in my collection.
post #1474 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Kevin, Sarge, I think I got it figured out. It's so complicated, but it involves Power DVD running in the background as I'm ripping. I've been ripping and re-ripping as often as possible, which means each time I tested a movie, Power DVD (automatically starts when I insert the blu ray) was running in the background. Here's why this matters....up until today, I was running in Directsound instead of WASAPI. I believe that when I tried to skip a chapter, since the audio stream was interrupted, Power DVD began vying for sound card exclusivity. I tested this with audio (played audio while inserting a blu ray disk) and audio would stop in MC18 immediately there. I switched to WASAPI and I have no issues with playback now. I'll continue to test, just in case today was just a fluke.

In other news, I am making great headway toward getting my Legacy Focus SE/Marquis HD/Phantom set. I can still hear the sweet tunes in my head from when I demoed them up in PA. The rosewood is a near-perfect match for my submersives, and thankfully, they manage to disappear into the room with the lights off, regardless of their gorgeous reddish hue. It's also time to upgrade my rack...this 6-foot tall piece of plastic has got to go!!
post #1475 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

. I would love for someone to do a side by side comparison with a BD disc.

Hey Frank, I can do this for you. Do you have a particular movie/scene in mind?
post #1476 of 1871
Good stuff on your server and really good stuff on your speakers. Looking forward to seeing them and hearing you thoughts on them. I assume we will get a video from you when you have them all setup biggrin.gif. Your rack is your equipment room right? Did you have anything in mind?
post #1477 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Good stuff on your server and really good stuff on your speakers. Looking forward to seeing them and hearing you thoughts on them. I assume we will get a video from you when you have them all setup biggrin.gif. Your rack is your equipment room right? Did you have anything in mind?

Thanks Mike...I don't have them yet, but I'm getting there! I'll definitely have a video about them! Yeah my rack is currently in a separate equipment room directly behind the theater, but I just want it to show the gear off better. I have one commercial rack (i forget the name)and one custom rack in mind.
post #1478 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Thanks Mike...I don't have them yet, but I'm getting there! I'll definitely have a video about them! Yeah my rack is currently in a separate equipment room directly behind the theater, but I just want it to show the gear off better. I have one commercial rack (i forget the name)and one custom rack in mind.
I know. These kind of moves take time. It's good to get a nice equipment rack to show off the gear. I would be interested in which one you choose.
post #1479 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I know. These kind of moves take time. It's good to get a nice equipment rack to show off the gear. I would be interested in which one you choose.

Yeah, they definitely take time, but ultimately will be very worth the wait! I’ll definitely look up one of the racks I’ve been looking at. If I don’t go that route, I’ll definitely share my custom rack plans.
post #1480 of 1871
Thread Starter 
I’ve got a question for the technically capable audiophiles out there. Are there any benefits to upsampling music files in the audio realm? For instance, does it make sense to upsample a 44Khz flac file to play back at 96Khz? 192Khz? I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I don’t understand how any program or device, no matter how sophisticated, can create music information where it does not exist. Video upscaling can work tricks with pixels, but audio…does it work tricks with vocal texture? decay? I just don’t know. If anybody has a view on this, it would be most appreciated.
post #1481 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Yeah, they definitely take time, but ultimately will be very worth the wait! I’ll definitely look up one of the racks I’ve been looking at. If I don’t go that route, I’ll definitely share my custom rack plans.
So by custom you mean one that you will build yourself?
post #1482 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

So by custom you mean one that you will build yourself?

But alas, Sir Michael of the Sylvanian Vale—unfortunately, I am not a capable carpenter. However, I spoke with Sir Dennis of the Ronkskin Isles about the possibility of building a rack upon which I may lay my equipment. I would use timber from the Kingswood itself.

Winter is Coming…

Ok, Game of Thrones moment: over smile.gif
post #1483 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post


In other news, I am making great headway toward getting my Legacy Focus SE/Marquis HD/Phantom set. I can still hear the sweet tunes in my head from when I demoed them up in PA. The rosewood is a near-perfect match for my submersives, and thankfully, they manage to disappear into the room with the lights off, regardless of their gorgeous reddish hue. It's also time to upgrade my rack...this 6-foot tall piece of plastic has got to go!!

Hey man take your time on those legacy's its going to be an amazing speaker purchase and combined with the seatons for looks and sound have me anticipating the unboxing vid smile.gif!! I truly understand the rack upgrade as you know I just did one but more for being able to handle all these heavy items and I have extra shelves for future but my plans in the future are to bring it out of the closet into the open so looks will become a factor then for sure.
post #1484 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkingincharge View Post

Hey man take your time on those legacy's its going to be an amazing speaker purchase and combined with the seatons for looks and sound have me anticipating the unboxing vid smile.gif!! I truly understand the rack upgrade as you know I just did one but more for being able to handle all these heavy items and I have extra shelves for future but my plans in the future are to bring it out of the closet into the open so looks will become a factor then for sure.

Oh I'm definitely not rushing. Good things come to those who wait!!! I just really hate the "waiting" part of it all. IT's great that you got extra shelves with that rack--once you show that baby off, the "ooh"s and "ahhh"s will bring much joy to thy heart cool.gif
post #1485 of 1871
Thread Starter 
I call it: THE RIPPER



4X BD-Readers (3 BD-ROM and 1 BD-RE)
7.5 TB STORAGE

I've already ripped 8 discs since I got home from work. biggrin.gif
post #1486 of 1871
Kudos there Brolic. Does the case allow you to expand your storage in the future? I've been looking at doing something similar to get my BD/DVD collection in order, but I want everything in full format (menus, subs, commentary etc.) I like the idea of the Backblaze server that was mentioned earlier in your thread; seems simple enough to create.
post #1487 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Hey Frank, I can do this for you. Do you have a particular movie/scene in mind?

I was just very curious to see if the Pq and Aq suffered once ripped. Any movie would suffice but that has been holding me back. I was told that it did and was told that it didn't.
post #1488 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I was just very curious to see if the Pq and Aq suffered once ripped. Any movie would suffice but that has been holding me back. I was told that it did and was told that it didn't.

PQ wouldn't suffer persay from the rip. Playing it back is where the change in PQ happens, ie yuv -->rgb--> yuv and such. AQ is exactly the same if you set your computer to bit stream.
post #1489 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I was just very curious to see if the Pq and Aq suffered once ripped. Any movie would suffice but that has been holding me back. I was told that it did and was told that it didn't.

Cool.....I'll take a couple screen shots tonight. I notice no visible no visible difference other than sliiiightly different colors, which our video processors csn correct (the difference is so slight, I probably wont even bother with the calibration for computer output)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

PQ wouldn't suffer persay from the rip. Playing it back is where the change in PQ happens, ie yuv -->rgb--> yuv and such. AQ is exactly the same if you set your computer to bit stream.

An outboard video processor can also solve this conversion, right? I have a Lumagen Radiance processor and Frank has a DVDO processor. I haven't explored this yet, but I believe there's a way to force a color space output. I guess the question is, does forcing the output damage PQ. I would think not, but don't yet have the experience to back it up. How do you deal with the conversion?
Edited by BrolicBeast - 2/6/13 at 4:29am
post #1490 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Cool.....I'll take a couple screen shots tonight. I notice no visible no visible difference other than sliiiightly different colors, which our video processors csn correct (the difference is so slight, I probably wont even bother with the calibration for computer output)
An outboard video processor can also solve this conversion, right? I have a Lumagen Radiance processor and Frank has a DVDO processor. I haven't explored this yet, but I believe there's a way to force a color space output. I guess the question is, does forcing the output damage PQ. I would think not, but don't yet have the experience to back it up. How do you deal with the conversion?

No, it does not. YCbCr is converted to RGB before it hits the external VP, inside the graphics card. But YCbCr gets converted to RGB inside your TV/PJ anyway for processing, so it doesn`t matter who decodes them (the decoding algorithms and math are defined in a standard called BT.701, and the implementation is the same across all devices following the standard) . YCbCr (the colors-space used in HD material, namely Blu Ray) is nothing more than a was of encoding RGB information to a format that takes up less bandwidth , that`s the reason why it is used in the first place.

You can force the output to YCbCr on most graphics cards if you want, but as far as i know it will only result in a double conversion, YCbCr -> RGB (in the internal VPU of the GPU) -> YCbCr (output of the GPU), so it doesn`t make much sense.
Edited by GreenEyez - 2/6/13 at 4:47am
post #1491 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

But alas, Sir Michael of the Sylvanian Vale—unfortunately, I am not a capable carpenter. However, I spoke with Sir Dennis of the Ronkskin Isles about the possibility of building a rack upon which I may lay my equipment. I would use timber from the Kingswood itself.

Winter is Coming…

Ok, Game of Thrones moment: over smile.gif
That will be cool. I have the Grand Prix Monaco audio rack. Looks funky but is a fine rack and does the job well.

Let's just leave it at that wink.gif. I am sure the new equipment rack you are getting will be a nice one.
post #1492 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

No, it does not. YCbCr is converted to RGB before it hits the external VP, inside the graphics card. But YCbCr gets converted to RGB inside your TV/PJ anyway for processing, so it doesn`t matter who decodes them (the decoding algorithms and math are defined in a standard called BT.701, and the implementation is the same across all devices following the standard) . YCbCr (the colors-space used in HD material, namely Blu Ray) is nothing more than a was of encoding RGB information to a format that takes up less bandwidth , that`s the reason why it is used in the first place.

You can force the output to YCbCr on most graphics cards if you want, but as far as i know it will only result in a double conversion, YCbCr -> RGB (in the internal VPU of the GPU) -> YCbCr (output of the GPU), so it doesn`t make much sense.

Thanks for this info—so this would mean that color space decoding should not impact PQ at all, since if the PC didn’t decode it in the video card, the projector would have done it anyway? That’s certainly reassuring. Gotta love standardization measures!
post #1493 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

That will be cool. I have the Grand Prix Monaco audio rack. Looks funky but is a fine rack and does the job well.

Let's just leave it at that wink.gif. I am sure the new equipment rack you are getting will be a nice one.

That's a darn sexy rack. And there's some darn sexy gear that goes on it too. Is this the one you moved directly to when you realized your old console was impacting your sound negatively? or was there one before this one, but after the detrimental stand?
post #1494 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Thanks for this info—so this would mean that color space decoding should not impact PQ at all, since if the PC didn’t decode it in the video card, the projector would have done it anyway? That’s certainly reassuring. Gotta love standardization measures!

Yup, and it`s BT.709 not 701, i was actually thinking about the old BT.601 standard for SD content.. And it also depends on the software used, some software reads the correct tags for the color-space in the video stream (like MadVR (what J.River uses for rendering)) or XBMC or Windows Media Player, others like Flash for both Windows and Mac act weird, using BT.601 for HD video and 709 for HD content, which means you aren`t getting the correct colors smile.gif
post #1495 of 1871
Wait, why go the HTPC (pain in the backside)route? I thought the OPPO played Ripped ISO's
post #1496 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Wait, why go the HTPC (pain in the backside)route? I thought the OPPO played Ripped ISO's

A couple of reasons—Unfortunately, Oppo killed ISO support (pressure from industry) with a firmware update last year. The second reason is interface. Even with a raw file that the Oppo is able to play, Software like JRiver and XBMC use an amazing interface that makes it easier to navigate large amounts of files. No way could I scroll down hundreds of files via the Oppo—I would fall asleep with the remote in my hand. I still run my PC through my Oppo input to take advantage of its audio processing (for a number of reasons—primarily being to feed my transducers an un-equalized signal).
post #1497 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

That's a darn sexy rack. And there's some darn sexy gear that goes on it too. Is this the one you moved directly to when you realized your old console was impacting your sound negatively? or was there one before this one, but after the detrimental stand?
This is the one I moved right to for the important gear and I bought another "regular" rack for the other gear once I realized my wall unit was a big problem.
post #1498 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hades84 View Post

Kudos there Brolic. Does the case allow you to expand your storage in the future? I've been looking at doing something similar to get my BD/DVD collection in order, but I want everything in full format (menus, subs, commentary etc.) I like the idea of the Backblaze server that was mentioned earlier in your thread; seems simple enough to create.

Nah I'm maxed out on bays, but I can always expand via usb and eSata to a dedicated NAS if and when I'm ready. OH YES INDEED! That blackblaze looked pretty serious, and I'm sure it could be built for a third of the cost though. I skip everything but the video snd lossless audio when I rip. I never really use the extras (but I can access via blu ray disc if necessary.)
post #1499 of 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

No, it does not. YCbCr is converted to RGB before it hits the external VP, inside the graphics card. But YCbCr gets converted to RGB inside your TV/PJ anyway for processing, so it doesn`t matter who decodes them (the decoding algorithms and math are defined in a standard called BT.701, and the implementation is the same across all devices following the standard) . YCbCr (the colors-space used in HD material, namely Blu Ray) is nothing more than a was of encoding RGB information to a format that takes up less bandwidth , that`s the reason why it is used in the first place.

You can force the output to YCbCr on most graphics cards if you want, but as far as i know it will only result in a double conversion, YCbCr -> RGB (in the internal VPU of the GPU) -> YCbCr (output of the GPU), so it doesn`t make much sense.

I always knew the PC converts it (rounding errors occur as I was informed) but never knew the TV also converts it. Looks like I learn something new here everyday biggrin.gif
post #1500 of 1871
Thread Starter 
Potential Tragedy: My primary media drive is threatening to crash....attempting to transfer to recently acquired external drive but have already received one error message. If successful, great...if not, I refuse to invest any more time into this. I'm 45 blu rays in and if that data is lost, there's no-way I'm re-doing those. Its just way too early for crashed hard droves...oh well, Time (and the drive) shall dictate the next steps. JRiver is still great for music and worth the price of admission for that alone, as it very well may need to be.
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