BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater - Page 53

Hey Brolic,

I would like to clarify that my comment about the film presentation was geared towards the IMAX theater I go to, rather than the movie itself. To be perfectly honest, most of Die Hard 5 had dark and drab scenes that just didn't look that great overall. While the theater had an excellent display, Die Hard had some grain and contrast issues, and just had too much unbelievable CGI; more CGI than I am used to for a Die Hard movie. I was more blown away at how clean and pristine the previews were beforehand.

Now the theater is "where the beef" is in my opinion. It was the same theater I saw Prometheus, which is an IMAX 4k DLP projection. To date, Prometheus playing in this IMAX theater was the most enjoyable A/V presentation I have ever experienced (next to Avatar) in any home/movie theater. The soundtrack of Prometheus is definitely more enjoyable than Avatar however; the bass scenes at the end are truly gut wrenching.

As for the sound, Die Hard 5 was pretty good in a few scenes. But some of the more intense action sequences gave me more listening fatigue than anything. The soundtrack at times felt "cheap" and too bassy compared to Die Hard 4. There is even a soundbyte quote they recycled from part 4; I am pretty sure I am one of the few fans to notice this. The fighter jet scene is still something I demo all the time, and sounds damn good. I guarantee you that when my upgrade to 9.2 is complete this scene is first in line.

Yes, my Oppo 105 has the latest firmware. Both Total Recall and Brave bluray discs have audio dropout problems when played via bitstream. Total Recall is a Sony release in 7.1 Dolby TrueHD. Brave is also a 7.1 Dolby TrueHD movie by Disney/Pixar.

Apparently this is encoded on the disc. Sony claims it is as a result of "upgraded copy protection", and that the players are at fault. However, I don't think Sony has provided firmware updates for Playstations yet - very curious, don't you think?

This will really test everyone's memory...does anyone remember the Matrix DVD issue that happened back in the day?

Why go with the Beatis when you can just build your own server? that is the fun part ;D

I see you are getting into the whole media server stuff I remember when I only had a 3tb drive...now I have 36tb

Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but you have your crossover set to 100Hz?

You think that is bad! I have a 110hz crossover! It actually sounds better than the 80hz crossover in my room:)

I use a 90 hz crossover, as that measures best in my room. Using a 100 hz crossover is not bad when you have 2 Seaton subwoofers in the room. Having dual subs helps to reduce localization. The Seaton subs play great all the way up to 200 hz, sometimes better than some main speakers.

Good equipment is a good choice, from either auditory or visual.:D

So back in 2000 when the Matrix DVD first came out, there was a huge debacle in the DVD industry releasing a new "gold disc". I don't quite remember why this was really implemented other than it being the introduction of dual layer. I do remember that my second gen Samsung flagship DVD player did not even recognize the disc.

Back then, DVD players didn't have today's dual lasers and superior reading technology. They were very fragile. Even the slightest scratch and spec of dust would cause playback issues. Not sure if anyone else had to exchange discs, but I did so on several occasions.

So that's what I did, exchanged the disc. But the problem persisted. Before the days of tech and AV forums, I was bewildered at what caused this. I somehow stumbled onto Samsung support who provided a very enlightening announcement that this "gold disc" was being implemented by Warner Bros and other studios and caused a major compatibility issue with all DVD players except for Sony and Toshiba (coincidentally the co-founders of DVD).

While you would think I would be upset, they offered to upgrade my player for free even being out of support. I had taken the unit to a service facility locally where they popped the lid off and installed some kind of Sony branded chip. It took less than 5 minutes. Once that was done the tech tested Basic Instinct and the unit was still functional.

Once home, the Matrix finally worked. I don't remember the other Warner Bros gold DVD that was problematic, but that now worked too. Thinking about this makes me curious to dig that old player out of storage and disassembling it to see what this Sony part was.

Later on, I discovered my friend's 1st gen Sony DVD launch player That cost him $1K had issues playing the white rabbit special features, while mine had no issue at all. Ironic that he had the Sony and I had the Sony parts running in my player. I guess this was very early firmware upgrades. Ultimately, this would be known as the "white rabbit Easter egg glitch."

Disc problems, like the one you guys are currently discussing, have been around for longer than i care to remember. I am definitely embracing the media server and streaming takeover.
Edited by SergeantYnot - 2/19/13 at 11:04pm

For everyone that is manually setting your crossovers, are you using Audyssey room correction? And if so, what crossover is being set by Audyssey?

Audyssey measures the -3 dB point of the speakers i the room. It then reports that info to the receiver. The receiver manufacturer has decided what to do with that info and programed the decision into the DSP. The receiver manufacturer decides whether to set crossovers on the speakers, and at what point to set the crossovers. It is not Audyssey's decision.

Matt is correct that that the crossovers don't take into account the speakers' abilities. The -3 dB point at 75 dB, (the volume of the chirps), may not be the same -3 dB point at the volumes we listen, (95 to 100+ dB.) Higher crossovers are usually beneficial in most systems as they free up amplifier headroom and driver excursion. In addition, the sub(s) are usually the speakers with the best bass response, so it is generally best to let them handle it. More importantly, they can be placed in the room properly for the best transfer function to the LP.

In my system, Audyssey finds a low enough -3 dB point for my mains that the pre/pro, (Integra 80.2), sets 40 Hz crossovers on them. I manually raise them to 100 Hz. Then I use XTZ to adjust the subwoofer Distance setting to optimize the response around the crossover. It works much better than the 40 Hz setting of Audyssey/Integra.

Craig

I previously tweaked settings in my receiver and found that I preferred 60hz over the correction setting of 80. When I tested the Oppo 95, I did notice that 40hz was acceptable as well.

Does the crossover setting apply for both subs or do you manually tweak those as well?

Not sure if anyone answered this one for you but there is a known issue with the Total Recall disc in general. The TrueHD track had a audio drop issue. Mine does it as well and I've read others complaining about it also.

Edit: I've tried it through my computer & PCH same issue. Sony giving the answer I saw you later stated probably trying to cover up tracks for their mixing mistakes in the audio department maybe.
Edited by pretsam - 2/20/13 at 11:40pm

This is indeed strange to hear. There should theoretically not be any difference between LPCM and bistreaming. It's simply a matter of which device, the BD player or receiver, that handles the decoding of the audio. That being said, there is a slight possibility that one device does a better job of decoding than the other causing a difference in audio quality. However, the difference is likely to be so minimal that it would be indiscernable to the average person.

If you guys do run a test, please post the results back. It doesn't necessarily have to be in this thread. I'd love to know if you all can determine a difference.

One last thing. There seems to be an ongoing issue with audio drop outs on allot of disc releases lately. The fix is usually to switch to LPCM. The new Total Recall was one of a few recent purchases that I had issues with.

I know exactly the scene you are talking about. I never listened to it on my home theater, but I did like the intro scene, as well as the helicopter scene at the end. I have those songs in my music collection.

I'm not sure it was a "sound quality" difference as much as it was a level difference. The LPCM seemed a few dB softer than the bitstream. I turned it up 3 dB and then it sounded about the same. We'll check it again on Sunday and you guys can listen for yourselves and see if you can hear a difference.

Craig

Thanks, Brolic. An Oppo in the mix would be ideal, as I'm running a 93 and switched to LPCM to alleviate issues with these newfangled discs.

Thanks Craig. As I mentioned, I'm very curious as to the results.

Most of all, have fun you guys!!

Hey Matt, it was really cool to finally meet face to face at Craig's GTG yesterday. I had a good time hanging out and talking with you. I put my feelings on the GTG in Craig's thread. I think you said you were going to get an all Legacy setup. That will be awesome. But I still like my Focal's with the Be tweeter . I hope you had a good time.

We tried Total Recall again. On bitstream, we got the audio dropouts. We measured the SPL with a RS SPL meter and we were averaging peaks of about 102 dB. We then switched to LPCM and the dropouts disappeared. The levels did indeed drop by about 4 dB. Turning up the MVC by 4 dB restored the dynamics and SQ to the same levels as the bitstream. So, this was not a SQ difference, just a level difference.

Craig

Sitting in the sweet spot did make a difference. It sounded better there then it did it last seat so I can understand why Craig likes it like that. That song that you liked so much is by a guy named Donald Fagen. He was one of the founding members of Steely Dan. The name of the song and album is Morph The Cat. The version we heard was off the 5.1 release. Good stuff on the Legacy speakers as well. Mar or April is not too far away. I look forward to seeing the videos on those. If you are in the Philly area, mainly on the weekend, we can probably work something out for you to hear the Beryllium's for yourself. Just brace your self for my picture size. It is nothing like what your or Craig have. Plus my room is tiny compared to yours and Craig's. But I like it .

Funny you brought Focal up. While I never looked at Focal before for home theater, they are on my radar for car audio speakers in a major way. I recently observed in my car that one of the rear channels might be blown out. Believe it or not, it might have blown when watching the crash sequence in Prometheus streamed from my iPad; my car rocks unbelievably to that.

I need to go back to my installer and have them check if it is indeed the speaker blown, or a malfunction with the amp or cabling. If the speaker is blown, I am still deciding what to do. I am extremely proud of my car audio system which is comprised of Boston Acoustics Pro Series speakers. Since they are no longer manufactured, Focal is now the king of car audio. I could try and replace the Boston's with another Pro Series set. Or since this might happen to the other speakers, and warranty support is questionable, I might just replace them all and go with Focal.

At the Focal display I was most impressed with the materials they are made with; some of them being that familiar looking kevlar material on the cones, and that Berrlylium material they use seems attractive. Essentially I see Berrylium as a metal tweeter. I typically prefer silk dome in all of my speakers, but I am unaware of any high-end car systems that are using that.

Regardless, I will let you know if I go down the Focal route.

Sergeant,
If I am correct, a lot of cars that win car audio sound shows have Focal speakers in them. I am sure they kick butt. I had a decent audio setup in my old Pontiac Grand Am. But when I get my new car I don't know if I will just keep the stock version or upgrade. Now I have a JBL system in my car.