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BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater - Page 74

post #2191 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post


Ah, a 40Hz crossover and still clipped the XPA-1? I'm pretty surprised. Perhaps one circuit can't handle two XPA-1's? (we are talking about 2000w here). Just out of curiosity, how does one check for line sag? I hope I never need to, but in case I do, I'd love to know how to go about it.
There are numerous devices that you can plug inline with your power drawing devices like this:
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU
Tells you the power draw of the device, line voltage and a host of other things. You can find out what devices are real power hogs even when in standby etc. and just how much power the amps drew while watching Transformers at Reference LOL.


Max
post #2192 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

There are numerous devices that you can plug inline with your power drawing devices like this:
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU
Tells you the power draw of the device, line voltage and a host of other things. You can find out what devices are real power hogs even when in standby etc. and just how much power the amps drew while watching Transformers at Reference LOL.


Max

Ah, very interesting! My curiosity may see my ordering one of these! Perhaps two. Transformers at reference level would be GREAT to monitor. Either of the three will do! lol.

(BTW, the fourth one is doing away with Sam's character and is introducing Mark Walberg as the lead. I'm wondering if this means a grittier, more adult storyline. I'd love that.
post #2193 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Ah, what if the objects of clutter act as diffusors? That would be a surprise benefit! I don't know how you do it man--I probably would have "ebay"ed and "goodwill"ed all the clutter if it meant getting better sound. But, then again, the clutter is probably all important stuff though--as you clearly take your audio very seriously. I always wondered if there were reviews for your Mirages, but never searched the model number. It looks like they sound great. Have you heard any of their later, omni-directional speakers? If so, how would you compare the two technologies?

Man, that 18Hz Focus spec is conservative...I think it's perhaps 18Hz before significant rolloff, because when I play material that I know has bass below 18Hz, I still get that infrasonic "pressure" feeling!

I never heard the omnis, though the OMD-28 is rated down to 25Hz and 18Hz in an anechoic chamber—lower than my M-3sis (30Hz/24Hz). They're smaller and lighter too. Retail is $5K/pair, not a lot less than the Signature SE.

Real bass is felt, not heard, so there is what is called "usable response"; sounds like you're getting it in spades. The Focus is still my main fantasy speaker, but the Signature would be fine. B&W and McIntosh have a well-known and well-established synergy, which I heard first hand. Gorgeous. But even the top model doesn't go as deep as My Mirages (32Hz, 2Hz short), let alone those monster Legacys of yours.

I'm not in a position to run off after new speakers, I don't think. But if push came to shove, it would HAVE to be something that goes deeper in the bass than what I have, regardless of what the rest of the speaker does. Therefore, I follow your experience with the Focus, keep an eye on the Signature, and consider the OMD-28s and also Revels such as I heard back in December. If my Mirages needed replacing, I have an idea where to go.

For now, I'll just follow those Focus SEs with a smile.smile.gif
post #2194 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I never heard the omnis, though the OMD-28 is rated down to 25Hz and 18Hz in an anechoic chamber—lower than my M-3sis (30Hz/24Hz). They're smaller and lighter too. Retail is $5K/pair, not a lot less than the Signature SE.

Real bass is felt, not heard, so there is what is called "usable response"; sounds like you're getting it in spades. The Focus is still my main fantasy speaker, but the Signature would be fine. B&W and McIntosh have a well-known and well-established synergy, which I heard first hand. Gorgeous. But even the top model doesn't go as deep as My Mirages (32Hz, 2Hz short), let alone those monster Legacys of yours.

I'm not in a position to run off after new speakers, I don't think. But if push came to shove, it would HAVE to be something that goes deeper in the bass than what I have, regardless of what the rest of the speaker does. Therefore, I follow your experience with the Focus, keep an eye on the Signature, and consider the OMD-28s and also Revels such as I heard back in December. If my Mirages needed replacing, I have an idea where to go.

For now, I'll just follow those Focus SEs with a smile.smile.gif

I agree! Real bass is indeed FELT! I never knew fully understood the concept of full range speakers until last year during my many speaker auditions. My old Klipsch speakers had great bass, but didn't really go near the bass of full range. I had always wondered how folks lived without subs before those auditions. Those are all mighty fine choices to keep in the back of your mind, in case you were to enter the market. biggrin.gif
post #2195 of 3159
Thread Starter 
I finally ran Audyssey!!!! WOW! I broke in the "calibrated" setup with Prometheus in 3D...biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Well, I'm up in Jersey for the weekend, but when I get back....MORE MOVIES!

For music, I find myself preferring Audyssey off...
post #2196 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I agree! Real bass is indeed FELT! I never knew fully understood the concept of full range speakers until last year during my many speaker auditions. My old Klipsch speakers had great bass, but didn't really go near the bass of full range. I had always wondered how folks lived without subs before those auditions. Those are all mighty fine choices to keep in the back of your mind, in case you were to enter the market. biggrin.gif

While they might not seem to be in the same league as the other choices, I should include Definitive Technology as well. Plus, they're bipolar (not the ST or STS models) so the sound dispersion pattern wouldn't be unfamiliar. My fantasy Focus HD would probably make that irrelevant.
post #2197 of 3159
Are DefTech's BP speakeres actually fully active? I was under the impression the rca input only fed the included sub and not the whole speaker. You'd still need a high level speaker connection for the tweeter and midbass drivers. Saying that it might not be the most fair comparison against some other brands that are fully active speakers. Still they are monsters in bass though from what I remember hearing years back when I first saw the BP2000 and subsequent 7000 series.
post #2198 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Are DefTech's BP speakeres actually fully active? I was under the impression the rca input only fed the included sub and not the whole speaker. You'd still need a high level speaker connection for the tweeter and midbass drivers. Saying that it might not be the most fair comparison against some other brands that are fully active speakers. Still they are monsters in bass though from what I remember hearing years back when I first saw the BP2000 and subsequent 7000 series.

The speaker wires carry the full signal and route it according to setup. You can bi-wire or bi-amp where there are two sets of posts, even.

In the Mythos speakers there is a powered subwoofer along with two passive radiators. The BP-8080ST also has two passive radiators in addition to a 12" subwoofer; they go down to 18Hz (the BP7000SC with 14" sub and radiators goes down to 11Hz!). The Mythos series can be driven with just your amp; I don't know if the 8080ST or BP7000SC subs can run w/o being plugged in. Unlike the Mythos, the BP manuals don't say specifically that they can, though it could be inferred from the language on connecting wires, I guess; the manual says the BP speakers "contain a built-in subwoofer amplifier that must be plugged into an electrical socket." If you have to plug the BPs in for them to work, I would go with the Mythos series, which takes up less floor space on top of everything else.
post #2199 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I had the Jensen Iso-Max, which is designed specifically for hum from cable boxes and such, my Mondial Magic Brick, and the Furman SPR on duty at various points, and I lost a few channels—generally, the same ones on each (MSG HD being most obvious, even though I don't watch much), so those stations operated at a frequency within the units' filtering. The SPR didn't get rid of the hum, as I recall. Neither did the Furman Elite. But it settled in and the channels came along shortly thereafter. Maybe I wasn't patient with the SPR. Back before the system upgraded and I didn't have HDTV, I had no problems with missing channels or hum using the Mondial, which also filters the signal. It protected the TV during a nasty storm, in fact.

As for my Mirages, they have drivers front and back, but in phase, unlike dipoles. Because the room has so much clutter, none of the reflective surfaces are clean, so I'm probably not getting everything the Mirages can do. In the store when I first auditioned them, holographic would be a conservative word for what they did. Instruments were suspended in space, the whole bit. They have a tall image as well, great since my TV is well off the floor. I still get that but at a lesser level because of the room. They probably do like reflective surfaces (side/rear), but sound good in most environments. I imagine my soundstage would be deeper in a less crowded room or firing down the length of it (mine are on the long wall). For the heck of it...
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1192mirage/

Never been to Dennis' place. The Signature SEs might be within reach, which makes them dangerous. Your Focus SEs go even deeper (18Hz, I believe, vs. 22Hz), so no sub really needed either way. I like that. Unfortunately, that means the Signature SEs will be on my radar for a bit...

I forgot to add a Viewsonic Isolator. I tried it too and it took more channels than the Jensen. It did get rid of the hum, though.
post #2200 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

The speaker wires carry the full signal and route it according to setup. You can bi-wire or bi-amp where there are two sets of posts, even.

In the Mythos speakers there is a powered subwoofer along with two passive radiators. The BP-8080ST also has two passive radiators in addition to a 12" subwoofer; they go down to 18Hz (the BP7000SC with 14" sub and radiators goes down to 11Hz!). The Mythos series can be driven with just your amp; I don't know if the 8080ST or BP7000SC subs can run w/o being plugged in. Unlike the Mythos, the BP manuals don't say specifically that they can, though it could be inferred from the language on connecting wires, I guess; the manual says the BP speakers "contain a built-in subwoofer amplifier that must be plugged into an electrical socket." If you have to plug the BPs in for them to work, I would go with the Mythos series, which takes up less floor space on top of everything else.

Yeah I was just saying that I don't think the BP speakers are fully active speakers like some other higher end speakers out there. Then again I might be misunderstanding the point of the post. Wouldn't be the first time lol.
post #2201 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Yeah I was just saying that I don't think the BP speakers are fully active speakers like some other higher end speakers out there. Then again I might be misunderstanding the point of the post. Wouldn't be the first time lol.

I don't know if the passive radiators change things, since there are active subwoofers present. Maybe the DefTechs aren't fully active, technically speaking, due to the presence of the passive radiator. I don't know if the radiator qualifies as a driver, either. I don't know a lot of things, though.
post #2202 of 3159
I had Def Tech Pro400's way back in the day. They had a powered section, a a non-powered section, just like the speakers they sell today. The Def Tech's have a powered woofer or sub-woofer section but they still need an amp for the drivers that handle the upper frequencies. My Pro400's had a 6 1/2 mid range and a 1 inch tweeter that had to be powered by an external amp. They also each had 2 6 1/2" drivers that were powered by a 125 watt amp so they were the "self powered" part. So unlike a Seaton speaker or Genelec speaker, or some others out there, they are not "fully amplified. It just makes it a bit easier on the powering amp or receiver since they are not forced to try and reproduce really low bass. The 400's were good speakers BTW and you may not believe it, but back in my early days of pro logic and basic Dolby Digital soundtracks, they could really put out some impressive bass that was felt and did shake my small room.
post #2203 of 3159
Yeah from my times with their 7000 series I remember their speakers could crank out some serious bass. Enough that if you were in a somewhat smallish room and they were going at full clip the pressure would be enough to be almost overwhelming. I've never been a real fan of bipolar speakers but they're impressive nonetheless.
post #2204 of 3159
The pro400's were not bipolar. But they were good. They now have been at my friends house for a number of years and he really likes them.
post #2205 of 3159
Matt,

What is the brand and model of your amp stands again? I can't find the info. How well made are they? Are there a few sizes, or custom sizes available? And what was the pricing like?

Thanks man!
post #2206 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Matt,

What is the brand and model of your amp stands again? I can't find the info. How well made are they? Are there a few sizes, or custom sizes available? And what was the pricing like?

Thanks man!

Hey Dennis,

I got my stands here: http://www.standsandmounts.com/vtiblseriesampstandbl404-01variousfinishes.aspx

(and selected the gold cap option).

They are very sturdy and well made. My third XPR-1 (for the Marquis HD) came today so I actually need to order one more stand. biggrin.gif
post #2207 of 3159
With three of those amps for the front stage, you will have some serious power. Just be careful and don't hurt yourself. Those stands do look nice.
post #2208 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

With three of those amps for the front stage, you will have some serious power. Just be careful and don't hurt yourself. Those stands do look nice.

 

Unlimited Powerrrr!!!! **raises fist into the air, laughing a villainous laugh [mo-ha-ha-ha] while lightning emanates from my fist**

post #2209 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Unlimited Powerrrr!!!! **raises fist into the air, laughing a villainous laugh [mo-ha-ha-ha] while lightning emanates from my fist**
Yea, that's what I am afraid of eek.gif. Will you make a new video now that the front end speakers are set with power? Your Legacy speaker video says part one. I know you have a video for your Focus and one for the amps but I was wondering if you will do one more that everything is in place. Me thinks that since you said "part one", that implies there will be a part two.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 7/2/13 at 11:06am
post #2210 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Unlimited Powerrrr!!!! **raises fist into the air, laughing a villainous laugh [mo-ha-ha-ha] while lightning emanates from my fist**

All I picture is this:

post #2211 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Yea, that's what I am afraid of eek.gif. Will you make a new video now that the front end speakers are set with power? Your Legacy speaker video says part one. I know you have a video for your Focus and one for the amps but I was wondering if you will do one more that everything is in place. Me thinks that since you said "part one", that implies there will be a part two.

Hey Mike! Yup....Part 2 is coming as soon as I figure out how to improve the lighting in the theater!!! The room is lika a black hole when it comes to light retention and my $200 Flip Ultra HD doesn't help :-/
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

All I picture is this:


Lollllll......this made my day!
post #2212 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

All I picture is this:


Which Star Wars is this from?

Brolic, you should know that if I go out and buy new speakers it's partially your fault. tongue.gif

Following your adventures in Legacy has put the idea of new speakers in the back/middle of my head. I've already had to remind myself I can't afford the McIntosh XR200s ($20K). If this gets to the front . . .

Have they (not to mention the Emotivas) broken in any more, or has the sound remained pretty much the same?
post #2213 of 3159
Episode 3 : Revenge of the Sith
post #2214 of 3159
He does actually say " UNLIMITED......POWER !!!!!"
post #2215 of 3159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post


Which Star Wars is this from?

Brolic, you should know that if I go out and buy new speakers it's partially your fault. tongue.gif

Following your adventures in Legacy has put the idea of new speakers in the back/middle of my head. I've already had to remind myself I can't afford the McIntosh XR200s ($20K). If this gets to the front . . .

Have they (not to mention the Emotivas) broken in any more, or has the sound remained pretty much the same?

 

LOL, I will gladly accept the blamebiggrin.gif.....listen to the urge! You can use your awesome Mirages as full range surround channels! The system would be mind-blowing.  There was most certainly a break-in period, but I left my sonos playing in the theater 24/7 for two weeks straight after getting the amps, and I most definitely believe break-in has improved the sound even more. I still haven't installed my third XPR-1 into the system--I just don't know where I'm going to keep it.  I might just keep it boxed until I move next year.  The XPA-1 currently pulling Center channel duty is going a mighty-fine job. I plan to order two more for surround duty (will also remain boxed) for an insane power experience in the next house. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

He does actually say " UNLIMITED......POWER !!!!!"

 

It's just so fitting!

post #2216 of 3159
Thread Starter 

Oz, the Great & Powerful.........insane A/V experience.  The video quality is on par with that of Skyfall and the audio is, well, perfect in every way imaginable!

post #2217 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

Episode 3 : Revenge of the Sith

The best of the three prequels. Thanks. And the one I don't have.
post #2218 of 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

LOL, I will gladly accept the blamebiggrin.gif
.....listen to the urge! You can use your awesome Mirages as full range surround channels! The system would be mind-blowing.  There was most certainly a break-in period, but I left my sonos playing in the theater 24/7 for two weeks straight after getting the amps, and I most definitely believe break-in has improved the sound even more. I still haven't installed my third XPR-1 into the system--I just don't know where I'm going to keep it.  I might just keep it boxed until I move next year.  The XPA-1 currently pulling Center channel duty is going a mighty-fine job. I plan to order two more for surround duty (will also remain boxed) for an insane power experience in the next house. 

No apartment for you, obviously. Make friends at the power company pronto, lest they get alarmed when they see the power drain on the grid and panic! This is already a great setup which will get better once the new amp is in. By the way, I saw where Lumagen has VPs with Darbee tech built in now. No thought of an upgrade there, I trust, since you have a Darbee and a Lumagen already? I'm sure there are upgrades besides the Darbee tech, though.

Actually, I have a small second system in the bedroom which a friend talked me into. It's a pair of Sound Dynamics RTS-3s (same parent company as Mirage back in the day) with a HK receiver. Sounds good. I'm contemplating a Marantz MM-7025 to replace the HK. That would give me an amp which could drive my Mirages if the Macs went away, or drive the RTSs in a surround setup if I had the space and inclination. It could also serve well in a downsized system once I retire and such a thing becomes desirable or necessary.
post #2219 of 3159
What a great read this thread is for a noob like myself, ty everyone!
post #2220 of 3159
Hey Beast, what are your plans for the theater in the new house? Will you have a dedicated room? With all of that power I would think that would be the way you will go. Do you plan on two rows with a riser? Larger screen? Are you going back to the Seaton subs or something with a little more guts like an Orbital Shifter...Sorry for being so inquisitive.
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