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Looking for sub rec (~$550, 60/40 HT-music, 7000 cu ft space)

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hi folks,

I want to add a sub to my 5.1 system, but am having a hard time choosing. My budget is $500-600, and I am open to buying something used. My usage is 60/40 HT to music. The room is a very oddly shaped 700 sq ft x 10 ft high ceiling.

My system is currently comprised of DefTech speakers: BP7002 fronts (which have built-in 12 in subs powered by 300W class D amps), CLR 2002 center, and BP2X surrounds. I am using a Denon 3808ci receiver, but a plan to add a 5 channel 200 wpc amp soon and use the receiver as a pre/pro. My reason for wanting to add a sub is to get more bass extension and a wee bit more power.

The new subs in my price range that I'm looking at are the ED A5-300, Emotiva Ultra 12, ML Dynamo 500, HSU VTF-2 Mk3, and SVS PB12 NSD. For used options, I've found deals in my price range on a Deftech SuperCube 1, Paradigm PW2200, Paradigm Ultra Cube 10, and Velodyne SPL-1000r.

In terms of my priorities, I want deep base extension (20-25 hz), high sound quality suitable for jazz music, and an ability to blend well with my existing system. Size and appearance are not a concern (I am still a single man!). Power is not as high a priority for me as deep bass and sound quality, though.

Based on what I've said, do you have a recommendation? Also, are there other new subs in my price range which I should consider?

Thanks in advance!
post #2 of 18
Go used with that budget. You'll still have a tough time finding something that can pressurize a room of that size on that budget. Look at audiogon, ebay, and classifieds at various audio forums. I think you'll need multiple subs to do your room any justice, so whatever you get, plan on getting another one later. You should also look into near field subwoofer placement, that is pretty much the only way you are going to get decent bass in a room like yours with that budget.
post #3 of 18
I know this is quite a bit more than your budget...but I thought it looked like a good deal. You might be able to talk him down a bit.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....o-dual-subs-ve

If you're stuck on new... the list you have provided is what I see most recommended in this price range. Like Shady said though, you have a big room.
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys for your input! I contacted the guy selling the pair of VTF3s and made him an offer -- we'll see if he takes it. Otherwise, it sounds like you're telling me that power really ought to be a higher priority of mine considering the size of my room.

Have either of you (or anyone else who wants to chime in) heard the ED sub I mentioned as a potential, the A5-300? The impression I get from the review I read that it has enough power to handle a large room.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equ...signs_a5300.htm

Anyhow, thanks again.
post #5 of 18
The A5-300 is an older sub which isn't available anymore, but maybe ED can make one custom for you if you really want. It wouldn't have substantially more output than the Hsu subs. Those two Hsu subs are really the best you can hope for, I would hop on them. That is a killer deal, and should be enough to energize your room.
post #6 of 18
Why not an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus? Same price as the VTF2.3, but more power, and Dr. Hsu helped create it.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
still haven't heard back from the seller of the dual vtf3.3s. I didn't low ball him at all, just asked him to ship the subs to me in SF (ad said local pickup only). Then again, it's only been a day! (It's amazing what anticipation does.

Hawkeye, I found a review of the LFM-1 Plus. (http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-lo...subwoofer.html) It looks fantastic! If the guy won't sell me his vtfs, I'll consider it very seriously. Based on the description, it sounds like it's a better bang for the buck than ED, SVS, or Hsu (I still want to scour for good used deals first). Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks
post #8 of 18
Good luck!
post #9 of 18
Did you win the HSU's? I see that they are sold... If not, how is the hunt coming?
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

Did you win the HSU's? I see that they are sold... If not, how is the hunt coming?

Thanks for checking in! I did not win the dual Hsus, unfortunately. I think the guy was set on not shipping them, and found a local buyer.

Over the last few days I've actually allowed myself to get distracted by my other audio endeavor, namely the acquisition of a new power amp. I found a NHT Power5 (5 ch x 200 wpc) through eBay, and I'm going to pick it up from the seller tomorrow (very excited -- I got the amp for $785, and it's going to give my BPs a lot more power and probably clearer sound).

As of today I'm back on the sub hunt, looking at classifieds. Because I got the amp for under 800, I have some extra cash to spend on the sub (I thought I was going to spend at least 1000, maybe as much as 1200 on a good 5 x 200 power amp). That extra cash, opens up some of the 15" options like Epik Empire, Rythmik F15, and Hsu VTF-15H (It looks like Outlaw doesn't make a 15", although I saw that they have a slightly more powerful version of the LFM-1, the EX.)

What I'd really like would be to hear some of these ID subs. I've been reading a lot of reviews on AVS and elsewhere, but if there is someone out there in or near San Francisco who owns any of these and wouldn't mind demoing it for me, that would be hugely appreciated! Otherwise, I'll probably pull the trigger on one of them in the next few days (leaning toward Rythmik, Hsu, or Outlaw due to suitability for music). There is a Rythmik F15B for sale on audiogon right now, and I contacted the seller.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder240 View Post


Thanks for checking in! I did not win the dual Hsus, unfortunately. I think the guy was set on not shipping them, and found a local buyer.

Over the last few days I've actually allowed myself to get distracted by my other audio endeavor, namely the acquisition of a new power amp. I found a NHT Power5 (5 ch x 200 wpc) through eBay, and I'm going to pick it up from the seller tomorrow (very excited -- I got the amp for $785, and it's going to give my BPs a lot more power and probably clearer sound).

As of today I'm back on the sub hunt, looking at classifieds. Because I got the amp for under 800, I have some extra cash to spend on the sub (I thought I was going to spend at least 1000, maybe as much as 1200 on a good 5 x 200 power amp). That extra cash, opens up some of the 15" options like Epik Empire, Rythmik F15, and Hsu VTF-15H (It looks like Outlaw doesn't make a 15", although I saw that they have a slightly more powerful version of the LFM-1, the EX.)

What I'd really like would be to hear some of these ID subs. I've been reading a lot of reviews on AVS and elsewhere, but if there is someone out there in or near San Francisco who owns any of these and wouldn't mind demoing it for me, that would be hugely appreciated! Otherwise, I'll probably pull the trigger on one of them in the next few days (leaning toward Rythmik, Hsu, or Outlaw due to suitability for music). There is a Rythmik F15B for sale on audiogon right now, and I contacted the seller.

Alright, today in Best Buy I heard the Deftech SC reference and the REL R305.

I was impressed by the REL. For a 10 inch sub, it was able to play surprisingly low, and it was extremely quick and tonal on the music I listened to. There is no question that the SC had more umph at sub 20 hz levels, but it was muddier, and for me at least the extra power down low isn't worth the sacrifice is musicality.

Of course, both these subs are sold at substantial markup (although there are at least four R305s currently for sale on audiogon, in the 850-1000 range). My question is, since I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any of the internet direct subs, can anyone compare the sound quality and build quality of the subs from Hsu, SVS, Epik, Rythmik, or Outlaw to the REL 305? I don't need specs -- I've read them. I know how much more powerful they are than the REL. I want to know the stuff I can't get from the specs.

Anyone who has heard any subs from the id manufacturers I mentioned and also the REL R305, I would love a sq comparison, especially with regard to music. Thank you in advance.
post #12 of 18
With extra cash. what is your new price range?
post #13 of 18
If your range is around $1000 You can check out:

Dual SVS PB10nsd: 10 inch ported
Dual Epik Legends: Dual 12 inch sealed
Dual Outlaw LFM plus/EX: 12 inch ported and tuneable
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder240 View Post

Alright, today in Best Buy I heard the Deftech SC reference and the REL R305.

I was impressed by the REL. For a 10 inch sub, it was able to play surprisingly low, and it was extremely quick and tonal on the music I listened to. There is no question that the SC had more umph at sub 20 hz levels, but it was muddier, and for me at least the extra power down low isn't worth the sacrifice is musicality.

Of course, both these subs are sold at substantial markup (although there are at least four R305s currently for sale on audiogon, in the 850-1000 range). My question is, since I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any of the internet direct subs, can anyone compare the sound quality and build quality of the subs from Hsu, SVS, Epik, Rythmik, or Outlaw to the REL 305? I don't need specs -- I've read them. I know how much more powerful they are than the REL. I want to know the stuff I can't get from the specs.

Anyone who has heard any subs from the id manufacturers I mentioned and also the REL R305, I would love a sq comparison, especially with regard to music. Thank you in advance.

What exactly do you want to know. You're going to get a lot more for your money buying internet direct man. I can comment on the Rythmik F15, but I'm sure you'd love any of the ID subs.

I have a 4000+ cubic foot space. The sub is positioned near the couch and fills the listening positions well, but does not fill the whole room... not many subs would in such a large space. I can tell you that the sub digs deep and play low with enough output for my taste. There are subs out there with lots more output though. I love the sound this sub makes. There is very little overhang and the sub stops and starts on a dime. I have the signature edition and I feel the finish is absolutely gorgeous.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder240

Thanks for checking in! I did not win the dual Hsus, unfortunately. I think the guy was set on not shipping them, and found a local buyer.

Over the last few days I've actually allowed myself to get distracted by my other audio endeavor, namely the acquisition of a new power amp. I found a NHT Power5 (5 ch x 200 wpc) through eBay, and I'm going to pick it up from the seller tomorrow (very excited -- I got the amp for $785, and it's going to give my BPs a lot more power and probably clearer sound).

As of today I'm back on the sub hunt, looking at classifieds. Because I got the amp for under 800, I have some extra cash to spend on the sub (I thought I was going to spend at least 1000, maybe as much as 1200 on a good 5 x 200 power amp). That extra cash, opens up some of the 15" options like Epik Empire, Rythmik F15, and Hsu VTF-15H (It looks like Outlaw doesn't make a 15", although I saw that they have a slightly more powerful version of the LFM-1, the EX.)

What I'd really like would be to hear some of these ID subs. I've been reading a lot of reviews on AVS and elsewhere, but if there is someone out there in or near San Francisco who owns any of these and wouldn't mind demoing it for me, that would be hugely appreciated! Otherwise, I'll probably pull the trigger on one of them in the next few days (leaning toward Rythmik, Hsu, or Outlaw due to suitability for music). There is a Rythmik F15B for sale on audiogon right now, and I contacted the seller.
Hey Thunder,

Looking for a new sub can be fun. I own the Vtf-15h, previously owned the vtf3 mk3, and know someone close by that has the LFM-1EX. I live in Novato (Marin County), so that's not too far from SF.

Send me a PM if you want to check some subs out.

-Len
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Kesando, thanks for the suggestions. My new budget is 900 (extendable to 1000 under the right circumstances). I hadn't considered duals (other than the Hsu's that were selling for super cheap last week). More good options!

benclement, thanks for the description of the Rythmik. It sounds like the output/musicality tradeoff is one I'd be willing to make. For shear output, I do still have my 2 deftech BP 12" drivers that can complement whatever external sub I get, so that should help with home theater.

Len, awesome, I'll send you a PM. Can't wait.
post #17 of 18
With that much space and $1000 limit, the HSU vtf15 would be top of my list.
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

With that much space and $1000 limit, the HSU vtf15 would be top of my list.

I bought the VTF today, expected delivery Monay or Tuesday!
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