Vapor Audio Cirrus? - Page 6

A friend of mine has the Vapor Cirrus, and indeed are outstanding especially in the high frequencies, is very coherent and articulated. I have heard several speakers, Wilson Watt, Wilson Maxx, Andra Eggleston, Avalon in their models, Opus, Eidolon Diamond and Time.
More another list of B & W, Dynaudio Consequence, C4 and several models of Sonus Faber and Rebel
None of them can come close to the coherence and articulation of the Vapor.
His timing is superb and palpability in the treble is the best I've heard in my life.
The dynamic presentation is outstanding especially in the treble, and bass more than enough, unless they are used in a very large room or one wants to listen organ works.
For the price they are a gift, Harman group seeking economic profit rather than give a maximum in their products, the Vapor is a result of a labor of love.

I measured the frequency response of the speaker using a time gate which makes reliable measurement from 300 hz, here the show is outstanding continuous and progressive phase shift up to 11,000 hertz.
The treble drop from 15,000 is the fault of my microphone


Edited by Ruben Vargas - 9/9/12 at 6:50pm

Wow, thanks Ruben! PM me some time and let me know who you are, and who your Cirrus owner friend is

Was that measurement taken in a listening room? Since you have Praxis, I assume you know how to take a measurement.

Pretty funny arguing with a person that is using all assumptions to formulate his "opinion" on large versus this small speaker (entertaining then tiring). I have a pair of Cirrus with upgrades and outboard xover in stands. I have had and listened to lots of speakers, the design on the Cirrus remind me of some speakers that were designed by Andy Payor of Rockport Technology a few years back, where you could either buy them with stands or integrated aka Wilsons into a passive subwoofer. Without the subs they retailed for $20k. I have a friend with a very good ear that went to Maine with me to listen to those speakers and also to a dealer to listen to Magico's, I can tell you unequivocally the Cirrus sound more musical and detailed and the effective bottom end defies logic. A couple of months ago I left them at my friends house, he is a cable - amplifier designer, his company is called Verastarr. We put them head to head with a floor standing pair of Pipedream speakers and both of us thought they were better - more resolving and had more bottom end then the Pipedreams. We added a subwoofer to the Pipedreams then to the Cirrus and felt the Cirrus was much more difficult to mate with the sub and really did not need one. We decided the Cirrus needs a very fast and accurate sub to integrate properly. The room was well treated and pretty large and the Cirrus had no issue filling the room with a well defined soundstage and very articulate bass. Many folks believe cable has no effect on a system, we began swapping wide geometry for braided copper versus copper then switching out to silver. The silver gave the best presentation to these ears, and the Cirrus allowed us to hear the changes, they are impressive. Based on going to many audio shows and listening to many designs they are an outstanding bargain. For once I am completely satisfied with the sound of a pair of speakers months after setting them up.

Pretty funny arguing with someone that thinks there is such a thing as a fast sub.

Usually, when someone perceives a sub as fast or slow it is caused by fast or slow impulse response and/or decay times....more so decay times.

This is one of those often quoted internet myths.

Truth is there are plenty of factors that can result in the perception of speed or slowness in a subwoofer. By saying "sub" that implies a finished product, driver in a box, with many variables involved. Box Q, memory effect and energy storage of materials used in the box, then of course specific performance parameters of the driver itself like Bl, inductance cruve, and energy storage. Once all those parameters are added up and the final product is evaluated, they will of course have different step responses, decay rates, bandwidth, and distortion profiles. Those are the things that relate to the preception of speed.

^^^ OK OK....he went more in depth.

Well, I didn't even mention his perception that different cables can make it sound different.

Nice sidestep ...

Plenty of people believe cables can make audible differences. Why not just let them believe whatever they choose instead of the sanctimonious rolleyes?

Because he started it!

Haha, hard to argue with that

"Well, I didn't even mention his perception that different cables can make it sound different." I would suppose music or sound has a lot to do with one's perception, that is why Vapor and others offer different wiring options such as; Downsize Audio. Oh sorry I forgot I am in a discussion with someone that uses science and facts oops! someone that has never heard a speaker and makes definitive comments about it! Take care and it is the perception of speed, as so scientifically stated above the wrong woofer will give a sluggish and perceived slow presentation so a careful match is important! That's all I'm saying and I will stay out of the big boy discussion...

Sceince? Really? Double blind testing has proven again and again that there is absolute,y zero detectable differences between cabling and amplifiers. While there may be measurable differences, they are well outside the realm of human perception. Also, could you please point out where I said the Cirrus is a substandard speaker? Several times I have pointed out that it seems to be a fantastically built speaker where in the right setting would be the best choice. I have no doubt that it is a very, very good speaker. All I said, was that it's physical size limited it to what it was capable of doing. A small speaker cannot fill a room as well as a larger speaker that is of the same quality, it is simple acoustical properties that apply here.

But if you throw in a sub, then all bets are off!

Any plans to make a good desktop friendly near field monitor?

The Breeze works well near field. Two Breeze owners actually use them that way and report excellent results. I also have something higher end that will be shown at RMAF that would work nearfield and fit a desktop better than the Breeze.

I owned a few different amps and receivers through the years and they all sounded different. People that claim all amps and wires sound the same baffle my mind.

I owned my Cirrus Blacks for around four months now. Mine have the VH Audio capacitors , dueland (sp?) resistors, Amorphous core RAAL tweeter, and some high end wiring as upgrade options plus matching stands from Vapor. They are quite incredible sounding speakers, especially in a dedicated room with some basic room treatments. I can say the Cirrus speakers seem to disappear and I can enjoy my music like never before, the sound quality actually can bring tears to my eyes when listening to some of my favorite music, that good!

Keep up the awesome work Ryan!

If everything is properly level matched then all of those perceived differences disappear. I used to be in the exotic cable and amplifier crowd until I learned the science behind it all. A majority of the ultra high stuff is just a bunch of voodoo nonsense. By far the most critical piece in a system is the speaker.

I know that feeling

Thank you for the kind words.

I agree that great quality amps that are designed very well all sound good, but different models can sound different, I don't think level matching matters, each amp stilll has its own sonic signature. A nice pair of $5k or so mono blocks is plenty good for me. Amps sound different to me, I can make my amps sound different just from changing coupling caps. Tube amps can sound different when switching to different brand/quality tubes, etc. etc. etc.

Anyway this is a Vapor Cirrus thread so no more amp talk from me.

No problem Ryan!

Turbo,

I asked this question on another forum but I think it's probably better posted here. Regarding your new standard upgrades, what do you feel the sonic differences are between the new upgrades and the previous ones?.

Other than not having a dedicated listening room yet, and Jantzen instead of VH Audio cap i've got the same here. And yes the best part when set up correctly is that they just seem to disappear. At $4000 not cheap but a relative steal compared to some of the main stream high end brands and what they charge.

Actually I think you have OIMP caps in yours, but Jantzen 14ga foil inductors instead of Jensen 12ga wax/paper inductors. And you don't have our fancy smancy new RAAL

Well if you had waited a year before demoing them for me then I would have one of those smancy new RAALs

Don't worry, the fancy new tweeter is just a way for us to pad our massive profit margin

If anyone is looking to buy the Vapor Audio Cirrus make sure you get one that is built better than this one.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;image=71084

Might want to refer to the original thread

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=111378.0

Pictures alone will be taken out of context by many naysayers.

Why? Because this is AVS (Audio Video Sales), and they are trying to sell whatever it is they represent by attempting to plant seeds of doubt about whatever it is you represent. It's the oldest tactic known to man, and I'm constantly amazed that so many fall for it hook, line, and sinker.