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Big JBL Theater items for the DIY Guy. - Page 16

post #451 of 703
Dont you need 6 more Scott

And did Erich ever say what size box the gutted surrounds would fit into?

Haha beat you kingpin
post #452 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Got my six 2226's today, Erich. I haven't opened them up yet but the boxes looked fine. Thanks!

I thought you were getting 12.
4 for each LCR.
post #453 of 703
I've had the other six since August. MKtheater and I bought the same thing (I skipped out on the horns for my order though...mistake!) this past summer. Great deal we got! I got four JBL 8330's from that purchase as well. Decided against using the three JBL 4648 cabs I have. Anyone that is in California or wants to drive out here... three FREE 4648 cabs for AVS members.

Got all the drivers. Need a couple more amps, the DCX, miscellaneous extras and then build the boxes.
post #454 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"After reading that a few months ago, I decided to try it. I run large and plus. But, each time I read "the x-over should be 80" I try it and hate it. It looses that chest pounding."

got a link to your setup wrager?

I don't LTD, but would love to have your input. PM?
post #455 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

Nice, what are you planning on building?

IWATA-300 + BMS 4590 or 18sound 2" CD XOed at 500Hz to dual JBL 15" drivers from this group buy.


The IWATA-300 from the group buy on DIY audio.com, its a LeCleache horn design removes all the harshness found in all these PA horns. Im just a believer in the theories behind Geddes and LeCleache and I do believe all horns with any sharp angles have HOM and inherent harshness. Never found "sharp angled" horns that sounded good enough.
post #456 of 703
Got my 2226's today. 2 of the drivers have a little damage on the surrounds. I think the screws holding the drivers to the plywood came out and rubbed across. My friend who dropped them off said that using some silicone to seal might be all that is needed.

One of the dust caps is pushed in a bit also. Is that relevant or just cosmetic? The drivers look really good otherwise, just wish I had a box to put them in.

I'll try to take some pictures.
post #457 of 703
if run in their intended range, dust caps don't matter. cosmetic only. you may be able to replace them if it really bothers you.

i'm more concerned about the surrounds. maybe a pic would be best before further comments. i'm not sure that i would go sealing them up with silicone right away.
post #458 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

Got my 2226's today. 2 of the drivers have a little damage on the surrounds. I think the screws holding the drivers to the plywood came out and rubbed across. My friend who dropped them off said that using some silicone to seal might be all that is needed.

One of the dust caps is pushed in a bit also. Is that relevant or just cosmetic? The drivers look really good otherwise, just wish I had a box to put them in.

I'll try to take some pictures.


Can you take a picture of those? I made sure everyone was in perfect shape before sending, even tested them to make sure they worked too.

I don't think those screws could come out of the plywood on their own, they were in pretty far, as in a lot of turns so they couldn't back out. I even chose the thin threaded drywall screws so that it would take a lot more turns to get them out. That way they couldn't back out during shipping, I don't think that could happen. Were you the one that removed them from the plywood?

The screws that go through the mounting holes on the top driver lined up with the empty mounting holes on the bottom woofer. And vice versa. Basically sandwiching the plywood.

Now if you take the screws out of the top woofer and drag it across the plywood instead of lifting it directly straight up, it could be scratched by the screw tips that are coming UP through the bottom driver.

Did that make any sense? Tough to explain.


My guess is that's what happened. Those drywall screws have the tiny threads and would need to turn at least 15 times before they would come lose. And even if they did, I experimented to see if they could ever move enough to hit the other screw. I'm guessing that the first woofer removed was slid across the plywood and hit the screw tips coming through the bottom.

If that was the case, I feel kinda bad because I didn't mention how to remove them from the plywood. I just assumed that each one would be lifted straight up.


I did keep a couple spares, just in case something bad happened. But I double and triple checked everything before it went out.
post #459 of 703
I read a tip about using a vacuum cleaner hose to pull out a pushed in or dented dust cap. I haven't needed to try it yet, but the idea is that you rotate the ring on the vacuum wand to expose the hole in the side. This reduces the suction at the hose end for more delicate work, like removing dust from curtains or fixing dented dust caps. I don't know what's best for the surrounds.
post #460 of 703
I have used that technique on older paper cones but I am not sure what the JBL's are.
post #461 of 703


Can I do a simple repair to those areas? The dust cap doesn't bother me if it has no impact on performance. I would have a grill on the 4648 cabs anyway.
post #462 of 703
I wonder if rubber cement glue would work.
Has anyone tried Shoe Goo? That would give you a strong bond, yet remain flexible.
If it were me, I would definitely use Shoe Goo.
post #463 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post



Can I do a simple repair to those areas? The dust cap doesn't bother me if it has no impact on performance. I would have a grill on the 4648 cabs anyway.

Jesse, I had forgotten that you didn't open the boxes, but that your friend did. I hope he doesn't feel too bad one way or the other. Who knows what happened. That damage looks to have happened the same exact way on both drivers. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought only one had a screw back out and the other 5 drivers were still nice and secure. That means I would've had to send one that was already damaged the same way. I promise, I went over each driver with a fine tooth comb, wiped off any dust, checked them front and back and tested them to see if they worked. When I came across one 15" that had a simple mark on the cone, I took a photo and posted it here because it wasn't in 100% perfect shape. I still have that one and another pair that didn't look perfect.



If only one screw came out, wouldn't the driver shift side to side in a circular fashion and the screw underneath would hit the gasket first? I didn't think it could shift far enough inward or outward to hit the surround. I figured the most it could shift towards the surround would be 1/8" because the screw was slightly smaller than the mounting hole.

Regardless how it happened, when you send a check, don't pay for those. I'll pay shipping to have both sent back to me, get it fixed and use it somewhere here or whatever. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is, it's my fault for not telling people to lift the drivers straight off the plywood. I probably should have mentioned it. If the top one is unscrewed, and you slid the driver towards you to pick it up, they could get damaged like that. I hope others catch it before they unpack the boxes. I did send out PM's to those people giving a heads up. Luckily it's only 2 other people because everyone else is waiting to see if a pallet makes more sense on shipping.

Obviously I don't collect any money from anyone until they actually get their stuff, it's just the way I am. I know that's backward thinking, but I'm confident enough in what I shipped out. So it wouldn't make sense for me send damaged items.....the end user simply wouldn't pay. So rest assured, I'd only ship stuff that you would be happy enough to pay for. And this is one of the reasons why I feel better doing that. Just send it on back to me, and only pay for the ones that worked out. No big deal at all, I'll figure it out.
post #464 of 703
It's cool of you to offer to pay shipping to replace them, but I still say a tiny dab of $4 Shoe Goo applied thin on both sides of the damaged area, plus a little vacuum wand suction applied to the dust cap is a good and lasting fix, whoever ends up with the drivers.
post #465 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

It's cool of you to offer to pay shipping to replace them, but I still say a tiny dab of $4 Shoe Goo applied thin on both sides of the damaged area, plus a little vacuum wand suction applied to the dust cap is a good and lasting fix, whoever ends up with the drivers.

+1

Those are pro drivers and that is what a tech would do too. It will have no audible impact.

Check on AudioHeritage.com if you want opinions from speaker rebuilders and vintage JBL experts.
post #466 of 703
Thread Starter 
I did hold 4 back from the sale. 2 have damage that might need work (well one does), and 2 have cosmetic issues.

The one that definitely needs work had a hole punched right through it's surround. The other one I posted photos of about a week ago. It has a mark on the cone that extends up to the surround.

The 2 with cosmetic issues may not be a big deal. One had a pushed in dust cap and I posted a photo of that one last week. The other has a slight scratch on the cone about 1.5" long. It doesn't go through, and it's not sliced or anything, but it is there.

The rest were in good shape.
post #467 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post



Can I do a simple repair to those areas? The dust cap doesn't bother me if it has no impact on performance. I would have a grill on the 4648 cabs anyway.

Jesse, you could easily fix those woofers...
Simply apply some "shoe goo" at the damaged area and then apply a small piece of very thin and lightweight cloth pressed into the accordion material then lightly cover the patched area with some more goo.
post #468 of 703
i'd contact a jbl speaker repair shop and ask them what they would do. i'm sure they have a solution. how many screwdrivers have been plunged into surrounds during the past xx years?

you have very small damage there. i suspect that it can be repaired on the cheap and will perform just as good as fresh one.

i suspect the key is the right "glue" (probably some sort of silicone or something), and getting a good fill of the hole without overdoing it. no big globs!
post #469 of 703
My friend sent me this link

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-surround.html

There's no rush since 4 of the drivers are fine and I only need to build 2 4648 clones for now. I can do the repair whenever we reach a decent concensus
post #470 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

My friend sent me this link

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-surround.html

There's no rush since 4 of the drivers are fine and I only need to build 2 4648 clones for now. I can do the repair whenever we reach a decent concensus

Jesse, if you don't want to go that route, please just let me know. I've got those 2 other ones that you can change them out for. I don't mind at all. I can take pictures of each one so you can see if you'd like to switch them.
post #471 of 703
that ultra black looks like the right idea.

gordonw was suggested by zilch as being both a speaker repair guru and a supporter of vintage drives.

he is here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...1&postcount=19

i'll drop him a note and see if he has any quick thoughts.
post #472 of 703
message sent to gordonw.
post #473 of 703
I think either would work, but the Ultra Black has been proven to be effective, so no problem there.
We'll see if Gordon has anything to add.
post #474 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
message sent to gordonw.
Thanks.
post #475 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
For you guys that are looking at running the 2226J's in pairs, what kind of power are you looking at hitting them with?

They are rated at 600 watts rms each, but I don't think I want to get anywhere near that. I have a pretty compact theater room and am not going crazy overkill on power.

Planning on 2 Emotiva LPA-1's to power actively biamped Tannoy 12" LCR (225x3 at 4 ohms for the mids and 95x3 at 4 ohms for the tweets) and 4 Tannoy 8" surrounds (125x4 at 8 ohms).

It looks like a pair of JBL's with only 350 watts between them will do nearly 120dB at the LP...which would be just fine for me. It would be nice to use the Emotiva XPA-3 3-channel to match my other Emos but the 200 watts @ 8 ohms seems a little light for a pair of the 2226J's. I have 3 more QSC's but didn't really want to use them for this project.

Thoughts?
It's always cool quoting yourself.

I received alot of good advice when I originally asked this question and it was determined that the difference between 200 and 350 watts is only a few dB and it would be just fine (or better than just fine) with only 200 watts.

I just realized that I will have four unused channels on two Emotiva LPA-1's after utilizing 6 for LCR and 4 for surround...it almost seems a shame that they should go unused...so now the question is at what point are the dual JBL 15's obviously underpowered? This configuration would give them only 125 watts to share between the pair -- but this spl calculator still suggests 115.7dB at the listening position (as they will be 24" or closer to a corner) per speaker.

It would be nice to not have to buy the Emotiva XPA-3 that I was looking at to power the JBL's if the channels I have would do the job. It's only another 75 watts less, but now we are at 225 watts less than I originally planned on powering them with.

I realize there is no real answer here; testing the theory by letting 'er rip with the lower power is the only real way to find out...just thinking out loud I guess.
post #476 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
It's always cool quoting yourself.

I received alot of good advice when I originally asked this question and it was determined that the difference between 200 and 350 watts is only a few dB and it would be just fine (or better than just fine) with only 200 watts.

I just realized that I will have four unused channels on two Emotiva LPA-1's after utilizing 6 for LCR and 4 for surround...it almost seems a shame that they should go unused...so now the question is at what point are the dual JBL 15's obviously underpowered? This configuration would give them only 125 watts to share between the pair -- but this spl calculator still suggests 115.7dB at the listening position (as they will be 24" or closer to a corner) per speaker.

It would be nice to not have to buy the Emotiva XPA-3 that I was looking at to power the JBL's if the channels I have would do the job. It's only another 75 watts less, but now we are at 225 watts less than I originally planned on powering them with.

I realize there is no real answer here; testing the theory by letting 'er rip with the lower power is the only real way to find out...just thinking out loud I guess.
The proof is in the pudding, but I'd be surprised if you felt it would be lacking. That is a rating of sustained 125w. If you plan to listen to a sustained 115db at those frequencies you are nuts to be honest. That is 10db above reference. For me, mid to high frequencies at reference are loud (sub bass can be a bit higher for me). 115db is twice as loud as reference and IMO adequate headroom. You will also find that those SPL calculators are a little conservative in small rooms. The amp will also be capable of more than that for a short peak.

Give that amp a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Remember, you are giving them more power than the average joe with a receiver and they are maybe 12-18db more sensitive than the typical HT/hifi stuff. I'm guessing you will only need about 10-15 watts for reference, right? That is the beauty right there. I'd guess you will get less than .1db of power compression at a sustained reference...effortless.

One other thing you need to consider with that calculator. You will get closer to 6db of extra sensitivity when the two drivers are mounted closely together and that calculator is only giving you 3db because it assumes two separate speakers. Set your sensitivity to 103db and speakers to 1.
post #477 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post
The proof is in the pudding, but I'd be surprised if you felt it would be lacking. That is a rating of sustained 125w. If you plan to listen to a sustained 115db at those frequencies you are nuts to be honest. That is 10db above reference. For me, mid to high frequencies at reference are loud (sub bass can be a bit higher for me). 115db is twice as loud as reference and IMO adequate headroom. You will also find that those SPL calculators are a little conservative in small rooms. The amp will also be capable of more than that for a short peak.

Give that amp a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Remember, you are giving them more power than the average joe with a receiver and they are maybe 12-18db more sensitive than the typical HT/hifi stuff. I'm guessing you will only need about 10-15 watts for reference, right? That is the beauty right there. I'd guess you will get less than .1db of power compression at a sustained reference...effortless.

One other thing you need to consider with that calculator. You will get closer to 6db of extra sensitivity when the two drivers are mounted closely together and that calculator is only giving you 3db because it assumes two separate speakers. Set your sensitivity to 103db and speakers to 1.
"...effortless."

That makes the entire idea of running 2 for L/C/R worth it.
post #478 of 703
christ 115db, my ears start to hurt at around 100dB with these big ass speakers.


also for the for the people running dual woofer setups are you going active or passive with your crossovers? I have been in phase alignment hell with my dual woofer econowave SR in PCD. I can get them really close but one of the woofers spirals out at above the crossover point for some damn reason.
post #479 of 703
Thread Starter 
Gentlemen, I'm boxing up surrounds and surround guts right now, but I need room.

All the other 15's and 18's are boxed up and sold. But I've only shipped 14 out of the huge amount I have. So time has come for people to decide whether they are doing a pallet or just shipping individual boxes. There's literally no where left to put things.

My living room and dining room look like a JBL packaging facility with not only a boat load of drivers and surrounds, but also just as much shipping supplies. Gotta love it. Normally, I could live with this for much longer, but I've got 110 surrounds, 230 MFW's, and 100 flat packs that also need to be boxed up in the next couple weeks.

Yes, that's over 450 packages.........by myself! I will get through it though! But it's time to move some of this stuff out. Let me know what you've decided when you get the chance.
post #480 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Gentlemen, I'm boxing up surrounds and surround guts right now, but I need room.

All the other 15's and 18's are boxed up and sold. But I've only shipped 14 out of the huge amount I have. So time has come for people to decide whether they are doing a pallet or just shipping individual boxes.

My living room and dining room look like a JBL packaging facility with not only a boat load of drivers and surrounds, but also just as much shipping supplies.


Normally, I could live with this for much longer, but I've got 110 surrounds, 230 MFW's, and 100 flat packs that need to be boxed up in the next couple weeks.

Yes, that's over 450 packages.........by myself! I will get through it though!


Holy cow! I wish I lived near you, I would gladly help out.

I think Cincy is about 5.5+ hours from me.
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