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Big JBL Theater items for the DIY Guy. - Page 17

post #481 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

christ 115db, my ears start to hurt at around 100dB with these big ass speakers.


also for the for the people running dual woofer setups are you going active or passive with your crossovers? I have been in phase alignment hell with my dual woofer econowave SR in PCD. I can get them really close but one of the woofers spirals out at above the crossover point for some damn reason.

How are you running dual woofers? 2.5?

With the 2352 horn, I'll be able to cross around 800hz and run it 2-way TMM. If I ran it 2.5 way with a smaller horn (ie SEOS or QSC) there would need to be some major CD attenuation because the top woofer would be operating closer to 16ohms. It is certainly possible but I've never designed a crossover like that myself...that is assuming an 8ohm CD. If you get a 16ohm CD it should be pretty standard.

Do you have a link to your project where you are having trouble? I'd like to toy with it in PCD to see what I get.
post #482 of 703
Thread Starter 
Anyone that just wants the internal parts to the JBL surrounds, let me know. Just send me a PM telling me how many, and your address, I'll check shipping costs. I'm going to box these up in pairs at first, at least I think that will be the best way to go for now.

Do you guys think I should remove all the fiberglass stuffing and ship that along with everything else?

Here's what I can get out of the cabinets: Woofer, midrange, tweeter, crossover, screws, and the top 1.25" of the port. The rest of the port is just a cardboard tube and it's glued in. The plastic top of the tube is pretty much for decoration, but you could probably find the correct tube diameter to glue to it.

I think I should at least include the fiberglass that was in the midrange chamber. That chamber will be very easy to make, this entire box will be very easy to make actually. I think most people here could build it better anyway.
post #483 of 703
Hmm...maybe you can use it(fiberglass) as packing material or to wrap some parts in.

BTW: That's the most awesome Avatar ever!
post #484 of 703
Well this is where I am at.

These are my settings and I am trying to use as much as the SR components as I can, I took out the countour filter from the SR as it boosted the dB a bit. Also I dropped the cross point of the mid below the the woofer as that lined up the phases really nicely, but I ran into a problem with that.
LL
LL
LL
post #485 of 703
So I uploaded the the overall graph from the above settings, it looked decent but the phase of the woofer go out of control above 10k. I also noticed that I didn't have the z offsets correct so I inputted the ones that I found in the ewave thread of the SR (z offset w -0.070, t -0.166) and I got the phasehellwithzilchsetting.jpg file. Using the correct Z offsets just blew my crossover out of the water.

The reason why I went with a three way is because I believe zilch tricked PCD in order to apply the FAT technique that JBL uses on the AC26 as found here http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE%...ls/AC26-WH.pdf

Its just a second and third order crossover and zilch talked about it here also
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=array&page=16

Its just a fight for me to squeeze out that extra couple of dB from the system but I would like to add it because the 220ti is a bit harsh and I don't have the ability to EQ individual speakers.




I may have to live with just a 97db/watt speaker though and use the single woofer setup but this is what I have been experiencing when trying to add a second woofer.
LL
LL
LL
post #486 of 703
For SoCal people,

Some room opened up on the freight pallet. There is room for 2 8330's and 8 MFW's If you wan to save some money, $15 per MFW vs. $27 FedEx. $37 for a pair of 8330's vs. $64 FedEx.

If your interested PM me, I need to know pronto as the pallet is going out this week.
post #487 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

For SoCal people,

Some room opened up on the freight pallet. There is room for 2 8330's and 8 MFW's If you wan to save some money, $15 per MFW vs. $27 FedEx. $37 for a pair of 8330's vs. $64 FedEx.

If your interested PM me, I need to know pronto as the pallet is going out this week.

Might be slightly higher shipping the MFW by itself through Fed Ex. I can't recall what weight I initially told people but after packing and double boxing, they're just under 24lbs each. I think I initially thought they were just under 23.

That won't change the price for pallet shipping though.
post #488 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I just checked. That package weigh 37lbs. Shipping is from 45239. I have an account so it's about 15-20% less than what you might see on their site. Leans closer to 20% actually.

https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home


Shipping to these California zips (93619, 91351) is a bit over $37. That will likely be the highest shipping amount but might kill the deal for you California folks.


In the Montana area (59105), looks like around $29.

New York area (14305) around $21.

Florida (32608) around $24.

Texas (75126) around $27.




Packaged GUTS!!!

Okay, I found the perfect boxes for packaging up 1 set of internal parts from the surrounds. They weigh in about 7.5 lbs each. Not bad. When a pair is double boxed into a larger box, the weight is 17lbs. I happen to have some of those double thick boxes, so shipping damage should be pretty much zero because it's 3 layers of cardboard, plus bubble wrap and foam. Anyway, that makes things pretty cheap for shipping.


---------------------
A pair of complete cabinets from 45239 to Florida would be $46.

A pair of Guts to Florida would be $14.50.

---------------------

A pair of complete to California would be about $74.

A pair of Guts to California would be about $21.
---------------------


I now think the guts might make more sense when you look at the shipping costs. It doesn't take me that much longer to gut the boxes and package them up, so don't worry about that. Plus, if you want 3 or 4, I can find a larger box to fit 4 sets inside of. Speaker grills? Well they're 19" x 14". They aren't special, the frame is made out of plastic with the cloth glued to it. I can remove the cloth and ship that too. I might be able to find a big enough box to fit the entire grill in if you really need it.




Guys, please contact me about the surrounds, I'm ready to get these things moving.
post #489 of 703
Do you guys (resident speaker designers) think the stock crossover would need to be modified if the 8330s box were substantially re-arranged into a conventionally shaped box?
That 8330 has a pretty wide baffle. Of course I can try it and see or maybe add an L-Pad, just want some opinions.

Thanks, Darell

Eric do you need me to pm you on the 8330s or are we set?
post #490 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

So I uploaded the the overall graph from the above settings, it looked decent but the phase of the woofer go out of control above 10k. I also noticed that I didn't have the z offsets correct so I inputted the ones that I found in the ewave thread of the SR (z offset w -0.070, t -0.166) and I got the phasehellwithzilchsetting.jpg file. Using the correct Z offsets just blew my crossover out of the water.

The reason why I went with a three way is because I believe zilch tricked PCD in order to apply the FAT technique that JBL uses on the AC26 as found here http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE%...ls/AC26-WH.pdf

Its just a second and third order crossover and zilch talked about it here also
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=array&page=16

Its just a fight for me to squeeze out that extra couple of dB from the system but I would like to add it because the 220ti is a bit harsh and I don't have the ability to EQ individual speakers.




I may have to live with just a 97db/watt speaker though and use the single woofer setup but this is what I have been experiencing when trying to add a second woofer.

I am semi-familiar with PCD. It is a nice tool. I think you may need to adjust your forward axis. I'd invert the tweeter polarity and adjust the "Vertical Off-Axis Angle" until the crossover null is at its deepest. I'm not sure if that will clear up your phase issues, but I think you need to set your vertical axis.

If you want, you can PM me and we can talk about it. Maybe you can send me your FRDs, ZMAs and PCD file.
post #491 of 703
coctostan, is incredible with helping others doing XOs. He was very active with my build over on HTGuide.

I have had SoundEasy now since Xmas and still have not used it
post #492 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Do you guys (resident speaker designers) think the stock crossover would need to be modified if the 8330s box were substantially re-arranged into a conventionally shaped box?
That 8330 has a pretty wide baffle. Of course I can try it and see or maybe add an L-Pad, just want some opinions.

Thanks, Darell

Eric do you need me to pm you on the 8330s or are we set?

I'd guess you would be fine so long as you keep the exact same driver layout. Once you move the drivers relative to each other your results will be completely unpredictable.
post #493 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

I'd guess you would be fine so long as you keep the exact same driver layout. Once you move the drivers relative to each other your results will be completely unpredictable.

Thanks, in that case I think Ill just keep them as is. The shipping isn't that bad and the speakers are almost free compared to retail.

Its easy, as this dispersion of goods goes on, to get used to it, but it still just blows my mind that Erich would take all this on for no profit.
One in a million I tell ya.
post #494 of 703
As long as I am consistent with the factory baffle size, driver orientation and internal volume of the 8330, does anyone see an issue with using the factory crossovers? I am getting 4 of them in guts form and am going to have to build to suite the room. Is there anything else other than the three things above that I need to address before building?
post #495 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

coctostan, is incredible with helping others doing XOs. He was very active with my build over on HTGuide.

I have had SoundEasy now since Xmas and still have not used it

I tried to help a little, but I'm no Zilch or anything approaching the experts over at HTguide. Schumacher on Tech Talk is really good too. He helped me with some stuff. I think it is fun to help tinker with that stuff. With my business and kids I don't always have time to work on my own stuff.

Penn, if you ever want to try another passive design, PCD is really nice and easy. My only complaint is that it can bog down a bit in Excel. I also use LspCAD. I should take a look at SoundEasy.
post #496 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Eric do you need me to pm you on the 8330s or are we set?

Yes, they will be going out tomorrow.

I boxed up about 20 today along with 26 MFW's. It rained most of the day so there's not much mulching that can be done.......so I boxed up JBL's!
post #497 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

As long as I am consistent with the factory baffle size, driver orientation and internal volume of the 8330, does anyone see an issue with using the factory crossovers? I am getting 4 of them in guts form and am going to have to build to suite the room. Is there anything else other than the three things above that I need to address before building?

I'll bet 98.9% of the people could never hear the difference no matter how you built the box, as long as it's pretty close tot he original.

And for the surrounds, I'd say that REALLY holds true.
post #498 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'll bet 98.9% of the people could never hear the difference no matter how you built the box, as long as it's pretty close tot he original.

And for the surrounds, I'd say that REALLY holds true.

That was my thought on it as well. I am going to do the best I can within the space I have to maintain those 3 things. TY for your input.
post #499 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

That was my thought on it as well. I am going to do the best I can within the space I have to maintain those 3 things. TY for your input.


I've got your surrounds boxed up. I weighed an exact pair of guts earlier today and they weighed dead on 17 lbs like last night. Tonight they seem to weigh 17.4.......all of them that I put on the scale.

So looks like I need to get a different scale to make sure. That would stink if I sent all this stuff out and each box was off by 1 pound or something. At the end of the month I think FedEx just bills you the extra. That sure would be a nice treat!


I'm fairly confident that they are 17lbs. Same thing happened tonight with the MFW. Earlier it was exactly 23lbs. Tonight it was 23.3.


It's a digital bathroom scale that I borrowed from a lady friend. I won't tell her that it might be weighing HER wrong!
post #500 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I've got your surrounds boxed up. I weighed an exact pair of guts earlier today and they weighed dead on 17 lbs like last night. Tonight they seem to weigh 17.4.......all of them that I put on the scale.

So looks like I need to get a different scale to make sure. That would stink if I sent all this stuff out and each box was off by 1 pound or something. At the end of the month I think FedEx just bills you the extra. That sure would be a nice treat!


I'm fairly confident that they are 17lbs. Same thing happened tonight with the MFW. Earlier it was exactly 23lbs. Tonight it was 23.3.


It's a digital bathroom scale that I borrowed from a lady friend. I won't tell her that it might be weighing HER wrong!

Sounds great. I appreciate your attention to detail and care for the parts.

I won't tell her if you don't.
post #501 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Sounds great. I appreciate your attention to detail and care for the parts.

I won't tell her if you don't.



After the shipping deal with the 15's. I'm going to be extra paranoid about the stuff.

Each part of of he surrounds was removed and bubble wrapped, or wrapped in cardboard before being bubble wrapped. Then put in a separete box with packing peanuts. Then those smaller boxes were put in a double thick box.

If that gets damage, I'm switching to UPS. I have a feeling my local FedEx facility is very bad. I've had a lot of things damaged by them in the past, hopefully that was in the past though.
post #502 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

After the shipping deal with the 15's. I'm going to be extra paranoid about the stuff.

Each part of of he surrounds was removed and bubble wrapped, or wrapped in cardboard before being bubble wrapped. Then put in a separete box with packing peanuts. Then those smaller boxes were put in a double thick box.

If that gets damage, I'm switching to UPS. I have a feeling my local FedEx facility is very bad. I've had a lot of things damaged by them in the past, hopefully that was in the past though.

It's gotta be just a few bad apples at a few different locations for ALL shipping companies. Same thing happened to me, but I switched from UPS to FedEx. Another one of my hobbies is trading and collecting old Hutchinson style soda bottles. UPS managed to bust a couple. Good with FedEx, so far, but it could easily be the other way around, depending on location and current staff.
post #503 of 703
Eric,
Heads up....I sent you an email with my contact info over at diysoundgroup.com about the JBL gear.
post #504 of 703
Erich, got one of the 2242-HPL's yesterday, just wanted to let you know that the packing was PERFECT. The corner boosters you use I think are key.

That driver looks absolutely brand spanking new.

Thanks, Darrell
post #505 of 703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Erich, got one of the 2242-HPL's yesterday, just wanted to let you know that the packing was PERFECT. The corner boosters you use I think are key.

That driver looks absolutely brand spanking new.

Thanks, Darrell

That's really good news. You're right, they look nearly new, I couldn't believe how nice they were.

I wonder why you didn't get both of them on the same day though? They were both sent at the same time. I'll see if I can figure out how to look up the tracking numbers in the FedEx account.

I'm still working at the surrounds.



Ricci, I did get your email, I'll contact you later tonight. It won't be a problem for you to stop by and pick the stuff up this weekend.
post #506 of 703
Thread Starter 
Tack, I looked it up and it said the other one was delivered today. Strange why they weren't there on the same day.
post #507 of 703
Hi Erich,

I'll take my 4 surrounds in gut form. It seems to be the most economical way of doing it. I PM'd you my details the other day. If you need any other info just let me know.

Thanks again.
Eugene
post #508 of 703
Sent you a PM as well the other day about the surrounds.
post #509 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Tack, I looked it up and it said the other one was delivered today. Strange why they weren't there on the same day.

Got it. Perfect. Honestly your packaging is better than the majority of stuff I get normally.

PM Sent
post #510 of 703
Thread Starter 
Glad they worked out Tack.

Guys, I'll be getting more of the surrounds boxed up tonight after work. I was hoping they'd be easier to box up, but they take a little more time. No big deal, I'm just letting everyone know.

My busy season has started, but I'll get it all done. I just stopped in for a mid day break and then I'll be dropping more stuff off at FedEx when I head back out.




JBL surround information. I'm picking out the best ones when I ship the entire cabinets. But keep in mind, they might still have scuffs on them. These aren't gorgeous speaker cabinets even if they were brand new.

They're 19X19". I've chosen a box that's 20"x20". Shipping companies would like 2" extra all the way around, but doing that means the box will be charged as 'dimensional' as well. So it would get pretty expensive for something under $50. I'm putting very heavy duty corner protectors on the sides of the cabinet. They're designed to protect shipping pallets and should offer plenty of protection to the edges. I'm putting 2 layers of cardboard over the grill to protect that part, then filling with packing foam.

The stuff I have the most of takes the longest time to box up. So give me a little extra time. When I gut the speakers, I'm wrapping each piece, then putting the guts from one speaker into one smaller box. Then putting 2 of those into a larger box.

Shipping is from 45239. Complete cabinet weighs 37lbs when packed. 1 pair of guts weighs 17.5 lbs when packed. I get about 15-20% off for shipping, so figure that in.

If everything looks okay, just send me what you want and the address. Just that simple. It's been hard going through all the emails, so that would make things go much easier.

If you want better boxing on the complete speaker, please let me know, but it's going to be much more expensive.
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