PixelProtector Blu ray review

Plasmas do not need "maintenance" - and anybody who tells you they do is preying on your insecurities.

On top of that, every plasma I've seen has an "erase" function built-in - some run for 15 minutes, others run for maybe an hour. If you need more than that, you are misusing the plasma panel.

Greetings

I just set in on a channel that fills the screen ... and run the sleep timer for 20 min or so and go to sleep.

Easy ...

regards

Can you make the side bars a brighter shade of gray? My 2008 Panasonic Plasma allows me to do this in the anti-image retention settings when the aspect ratio on the TV is set to 4:3.

+1, the same also applies for special break-in procedures.

So not true. Break-in procedures do apply because I found out the hard way that I was not careful enough when I got my Panasonic TCP65VT25 last December. I knew about contrast levels and static images due to the Pioneer Elite HD630 it was replacing so I made sure it was set to the THX setting and avoided leaving TiVo menus on the screen, etc. However, I did not realize that my addiction to Black Ops was going to create some serious image retention (likely burned in) of the ammo count and game clock that are static through the game. The radar map, etc. are not an issue but the clock and ammo count which are white lettering and never move is another story.

Thus, I am not trying to figure out if the images are truly just some IR that are going to be removable with wiping. Thankfully they are only visible if the right background color is in that region of the screen and the ammo count is where most network logos are located and hence hidden by it.

Sorry... bloozman...

NOTHING you do when the TV is new will prevent what happened to your set. And there is NO "maintenance" you can do to prevent your problem.

In my original post I said "If you need more [erasing] than that, you are misusing the plasma panel." What part of that statement is difficult to understand?

So now... whose post is "So not true"? The one from someone who understands the technical issues, or the one from someone who plays games with stationary graphics on the screen for hours and hours and hours (which is MISUSE of a plasma display) to the point there's a possibly permanent image burn problem?

Once again... there is NOTHING you can do while a plasma panel is "new" that will prevent image retention or burned-in images. And once the panel is "older", there is no "maintenance" that will prevent image retention or a burn-in problem. AND... NOTHING will "erase" the panel any better than the internal erase pattern present in every plasma panel. And for that matter, just playing full-screen images erases the panel as well as anything else - presuming the full-screen images do not contain stationary graphics.

Another thing to note is that if you are going to play games for a long period of time you should take it out of 1:1 pixel mode and turn on the pixel shift feature.

Most newish plasma's I've seen have a feature that slowly rotates the picture around a few pixels at a time. That can go along way to preventing damage.

First off, my comment was actually referring to the "break-in" period (mentioned by a poster other than yourself) as it does appear that during the first 100 to 200 hours the phosphor in a plasma panel does burn more intensely when ignited. Insulting me and calling out that I am misusing (in all capital lettering) the display by playing video games on it is not really productive or true for that fact. Playing video games with or without static images is not misusing, abusing, etc. a display unit of any technology.

As you have correctly pointed out, playing full-screen images is likely to erase any potential IR as well as the built-in erase pattern (which on the TCP65VT series is a large vertical white bar that scrolls horizontally across the screen in a left-to-right pattern). Thus, I have been doing just that, i.e. playing the Blu-Ray release of GoodFellas (which is a 1.85:1 aspect ratio and fills the screen completely without the need of any stretch modes) on a continuous loop over a couple of nights this past weekend. I also have used the built-in erase pattern but it will only play for 15 minutes at a time. The best use I have found for it is to play it in between online Black Ops games since there is generally about 2 minutes in between each match so I just kill the erase pattern when the new match kicks off.

The point of my original post was that I am pretty confident that if I had been a bit more careful during the break-in 200 hours by leveraging the built-in erase pattern in between each Black Ops online match I would not even have the amount of IR I have today. Plasma is just new to me and I would not even have it today if my Pioneer Elite 630HD had not died on me last year. The 630HD, being a RPT, was susceptible to burn-in as well so I have always been cognizant of the issue but like I said just not as diligent as I should have been. I knew from the onset that LCD would be a safer bet from an IR perspective but I chose plasma over it due to plasma's potential for producing better (native) contrast ratios and deeper black levels.

I have a passion for and years of experience with high-end audio resulting in equipment to match. Thus, the display is not really even that big of a critical factor for me. In fact even at $3600 the TCP65VT is by far the absolutely cheapest and single most commodity item in my (primarily) audio / video setup. Right now the IR that I do have does not even visibly show up in 98% of normal content and even then you really have to know exactly where to look to even see it. However, if it does get worse and eventually bug me I will just donate it to a charity and buy something else. Thankfully, I have been blessed with a career that provides me with ample disposable income so it is truly as simple as that. I was just trying to help some other potential readers of the forum out there that may not be so lucky.

Totally agree and have had the TCP65VT's "pixel orbiter" active since day 1.

You can't play games on plasma TVs for hours at a time when the game has stationary graphics on the screen without risking or even achieving permanent image burn. The pixel rotation feature will NOT stop image burn, it will only soften 3 or 4 pixels around the edges of the stationary graphics. Pixel rotation is better than nothing, but it's no protection for accumulated hours of gaming where there are stationary graphics on the screen. If you keep doing that, you WILL turn your current minor problem into a much more visible and PERMANENT problem. That is abusing a plasma display whether you think it is or not. Plasma displays CANNOT be used for hours of gaming with stationary graphics on the screen without eventually permanently burning the image of those graphics into the screen. You cannot change this by denying it.




The aspect ratio of your screen is 1.78:1 not 1.85. 1.85 movies do not fill the screen if you are in 1:1 pixel mapping mode, there will be small black bars at the top and bottom of 1.85:1 images if the TV is in 1:1 pixel mode (called dot-by-dot and a few other names).



Plasmas are a bit more sensitive to permanent burn-in early in life, but it really doesn't last more than 50 hours or so - and it's difficult to quantify how much more susceptible to problems they are when "fresh"... maybe 10% or 20%, probably not more than that. The B&W phosphors in 3-CRT RPTVs are much less sensitive to image burn than plasma technology. I'd guess it would take double or maybe even more than double the hours to burn an image into the B&W phosphors in the tubes of a CRT projector (rear or front) compared to plasma. That's why plasma displays are really not a good choice for gamers who accumulate a lot of hours.

"Erasing" retained images (after-images that disappear over time are image retention issues, after images that never go away are burned-in) takes about as long as the content that caused the retained image. So if you were gaming for an hour, it takes about an hour to erase the retained image. So gaming for, say 3 hours with three 10 minute breaks where you run the erase pattern means you need at least 2.5 more hours of time away from the stationary graphics. Personally, I think 3 hours of gaming with a stationary graphic on the screen all the time could put you pretty close to having either permanent or at least have a "strongly" retained image that takes quite a lot of time to completely erase. Then there's the issue of accumulated damage... let's say you have something stationary on the screen for 2 hours. You then watch a movie or TV programming for 2 hours, but there's still a bit of retained image. But you go back and do some more gaming before the previously retained image is completely gone. Now you are starting from a "bad" point and the next 2 hours is going to make the retained image even worse and lengthen the time it takes to completely get rid of it. If you keep going back to the same game with the same stationary graphic before it is completely erased, you are accumulating more and more damage and, over time, it WILL become permanent even if you never had a single gaming session that was particularly long. It's this issue that makes plasma a bad choice for anyone who games regularly (with the same game and same stationary graphics all the time) and plays for more than an hour or two at a time. Not many people will admit you can damage a plasma panel in this way, but I have seen too many of them with "game damage" for there to be any question about what's happening.

It's nice that replacing the panel isn't an issue for you if it is "burned" enough to be annoying. But most people (for whom a $2000 or $3000 TV is a big purchase) don't understand just how easy it is to permanently damage the screen by getting caught-up in a few gaming sessions without enough non-gaming time in between to fully erase the retained image. And it's not gaming that's really the problem, it's the stationary graphics. I've played many games that are more "cinematic" and have no stationary graphics... those are no problem at all. You can play those types of games endlessly and not have problems. TV programming with stationary graphics is also an issue... news channels and sports channels are prime offenders, but The History Channel ought to be pilloried for their over-bright and over-present channel logo.

The National Geographic Channel's logo was really bad when that channel first appeared. There was a campaign on the forums-which I participated in-to contact them and complain about the logo. I guess it worked, because the logo was soon changed to the still-current transparent style. Perhaps the same thing could be done with the History Channel...

Just a quick update and a few clarifications. The good news is that the IR or burn does indeed not appear to be getting worse. I have been diligent with what my girlfriend jokingly refers to as my favorite program, i.e., the large vertical white "scrubbing" bar during and after gaming sessions. I also have the actual subject of this thread on order, i.e., PixelProtector's Blu-Ray and will put it into rotation as well.

There is a plethora of input in a separate "official users" thread for G20/V25 owners dealing with various experiences with IR and some of those are pretty surprising. Case-in-point is the gentlemen who is not a sports fiend but ended up watching ESPN for 1 hour with a friend who was over and now has "live" seemingly burned into his V25. I am pretty confident that watching 1 hour of TV cannot be considered abusing a television set.

Some may argue that gaming on a TV is abusing it but I think the television industry should stop hiding behind the fact that IR and burn are issues with plasma period. My VT25 (as do most displays these days) includes a "game" mode so if playing a game on your TV is abusing it why would it include such a setting. I know from a technical standpoint the mode initially surfaced with LCD displays due to the slower response rate of the early technology. In fact the "game" mode on my VT25 has a default contrast setting of 100. That is seriously wrong and Panasonic should be shot for that because the general public will definitely get IR and likely burn-in at that setting with any static images!

I also forgot to point out that I do have HD mode 1 set (which has some overscan and is not 1:1 pixel mapping) when I play the GoodFellows Blu-Ray because the VT25's native 16:9 format is indeed a 1.78:1 aspect ratio. You guys are sticklers for detail.

Greetings

Hmm ... why do they make cake if eating cake is bad for us? Just because you have access to cake does not mean you eat it all the time ... and when one becomes a fat pig, it is not their fault. It's the cake company's fault.

Game modes exist ... but for use in moderation.

Pretty much all plasma owners manuals talk about what constitutes abuse of the tv ... when it comes to image retention and burn in.

Regards

I have an entry level 1080p Plasma from Panasonic (2008 model) and during the 'break-in period' I left it on vivid mode defaults the entire time and gamed on it regularly for many hours at a time. After learning about calibration, I switched over to Cinema mode and tweaked basic settings and eventually did a grayscale calibration as well. The IR was always quick to disappear after running the scrolling white bar for the default 15 mins or so and I never had to baby the TV aside from not leaving it on a static image (like a video game pause screen) for too long. I have no burn-in or persistent IR on this TV to this very day and I don't feel the need to treat that TV any differently from my Samsung LCDs.

This is exactly the reason why there are some conspiracy theorists out there on the fore mentioned thread believing there may be some defective VT25 panels on the market. A number of Panasonic plasma owners report the same experience as you have with your PZ800. I have never ran my VT25 at a higher than 65 contrast setting and have been pretty diligent in regards to having any static images on the screen and most certainly have never ever left anything in "pause" period. In fact when I put the VT25 in use I modified the macros I have on my URC MX-880 to switch to the unused component 2 input as part of the pause mode for my TiVo, etc. and then back to the proper input when unpaused.

To some degree one can consider that I truly have "babied" the VT25 hence the disappointment with the IR/burn-in I have. The catch-22 is the fact that during Black Ops the ammo count and clock are basically persistant while the majority of the rest of the screen does change throughout online gaming sessions. Hence the fact even though I did ensure there was never any static images within my control those existed nonetheless.

Your cake analogy or the general fast food analogy does somewhat track to the conundrum. Hence, my comment in regards to unsuspecting or uneducated (basically information garnished from sales staff at Best Buy, etc.) consumers when it comes to game modes on a plasma. As for "abuse" there is absolutely nothing in the VT25 manual that indicates any source, etc. constitutes abuse of the display. The following is it's cautionary notes on IR:

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen (Image retention). This is not considered a malfunction and is not covered by the warranty.

Typical still images
Channel number and other logos
Image displayed in 4:3 mode
SD Card photo
Video game
Computer image

Not very specific and later on in the manual it indicates "game mode" should be used for playing video games. Keep in mind the default contrast setting for it is 100!

Yes that is dumb that in game mode, the contrast is set at 100. But what's even dumber is when people use Vivid mode and also set Cell Brightness to the maximum and then think that is fine. That and the contrast at 100, no proper calibration, and no screen saver on xbox/ps3...no wonder people are having IR problems.

Greetings

The 100 contrast setting is not the same between modes. It is merely a number and what it represents is defined in the background. It could be the equivalent of 50 in another mode.

Presetting it at 100 would not permit the user from pumping it higher. Only lower.

regards

Great point and a smart manufacturer could use that to their advantage. However, in the case of the VT25 series (and perhaps most Panasonics) from my understanding there are only two sets of service menu offsets (1 for HD and 1 for SD). Thus, it stands to reason that for the "game mode" in question on my set is leveraging the same HD offsets as the THX mode, Vivid, Standard, Custom, etc. Based on this it sure seems to me just by a quick visual comparison the 100 contrast level on game mode is equivalent to the 100 contrast level on the Vivid torch mode.

Greetings
The offsets you refer to are for grayscale stuff and that has nothing to do with contrast settings.

It's the same reason why 100 in thx mode is different than in the other modes on the tv. Nothing to do with the grayscale offsets in the sm.

There are much more elaborate menus in the tv ... where the design engineers play. No one has access to these menus ... but it is here where they define what the real levels of the display are and in which modes.

regards

Came here to find out about the PixelProtector Blu-ray, and how it benefited any purchasers. So far, not a peep! Well, mine will be in shortly and will post - sorry no plasmas, 55LHX LED/LCDs instead with Great Blacks. Post later on my experiences. Currently have the PixelProtector V2 that I use on all my LED/LCD's and it works! After the washes, colours look bolder and more natural. IR - what's that? PixelProtector just washed the orangey skin colours out of my set after using an off colour aquarium screensaver for a short time. For now - I'm positive on PixelProtector - have the Blu-ray and new V3 versions coming in to try out. The Blu-ray version is also supposed to have some neat calibration apps as well. Look forward to my shipment arriving soon.

placebo effect

>placebo effect

I agree. Accepting claims like those that have no before & after measurement results is a huge mistake. Wishful thinking leads to lots of erroneous conclusions.

LCD is an analog light valve technology... pixels range from black to white with shades of gray in-between. Color filters within the panel control the color along with the shade of gray of each of the 3 pixels. There is NOTHING a disc can do that will alter the color filtering in the panel OR the shades of gray produced by the 3 layers of LCD pixels in the panel.

Plasma pixels can only be on or off... there is no in-between. Producing different shades of color requires the pixels to flash in on-off patterns within each frame and that is controlled by the electronics in the TV. No disc can change what happens.

And furthermore... how could a DISC know that on one TV, fleshtones were a little too orange and needed some fixing, while on another TV, the fleshtones were perfect, but greens were oversaturated and on the other TV, the fleshtones would NOT be affected and green would be improved instead? Simply impossible.

And how would a disc know if a TV was calibrated to perfection with NOTHING needing fixing versus a TERRIBLE set of measurements where EVERYTHING was wrong and it all needed fixing? Can't happen. People spend money on silly things all the time though... gas mileage improvers, body part enlargers or reducers, ponzi schemes with impossibly high rates of return, door-to-door shysters, infomercial crap... put it out there with a good enough story and as long as nobody measures it to prove it does nothing, sales will continue steadily (and often debunking something doesn't even slow-down sales).

Pixel Protector's New Blu-ray, with completely redone Pixel washes, and now including calibration is a must have purchase for the good of your TV's PQ!
Had a background reddish tinge that just wouldn't go away, despite using the old Pixel Washes, tweaking and calibrating. Of course, the tinge threw off my calibrations. After using the Pixel Protector's new calibration feature, I've ended up with the best calibration ever from all the various calibration DVDs I've tried over the last several years. (inc WOW, S&M, AVS, etc.) After the initial calibration, it's off to letting the 3 washes run on my set for several hours, then back and do a final re-tweaking. At the end of the preliminary tweaking, I ended up with the best PQ, so far, that this set has seen! Should be even better after the re-tweaking. Strongly suggest getting this Blu-ray, and try for yourself!
Now I wasn't imagining the reddish tinge, and I'm not imagining the the Pure White screen I have now! I'm also not imagining the Best PQ this set has ever seen since I started tweaking it several years ago!
Will do the final re-tweaking tonight and see if the values have changed since the reddish twinge is now gone.

Are you also a big fan of Monster Cable Products?

Yes, when you get a super deal on them, and they only cost a smidgen more than the usual cables I buy - and yes, despite all the groans, we did see a difference! Another serious Forum Monster doubter, tried the deal as well, and he switched, saying he definitely saw a difference! Would we pay the asking price for the same cables? He said hell yes, I said hell No! There, now you have a difference of opinion.