PixelProtector Blu ray review - Page 3

Identical? 5 different readings across my 55LHX panel results in 5 different varying results, same with the other 55LHX. My 55LV9500, almost identical except for the 5th. Stopped doing on the Panel calibrations, and went to the tripod to equalized readings out more.
You must have a very stable set, because, I guarantee you, a reading a week down the road on my sets, will be close, but not identical.
As mentioned earlier, when first purchased, Blue was rising over the 4 hours. Now it's Red. Green, pretty well stays stable from one reading to the next.
The newer ChromaPure is out, so have to go and see if the Greyscale versus Gamma results problem is worked out yet.

I am not sure what you guys are caring on about, but by using a pixel washer or any type of black white screen sweep like on my VT50 plasma using the screen sweep black white pattern will help to rid your display of IR.

Like if you run calibration color pattern windows often or prolong periods of time, you will get some form of IR and that probably will cause a problem with the out come of your calibration.

Anyway this of-course is just one of the many pit falls of properly calibrating a plasma display (I can only talk about plasma). iow doing a proper Calibration by anybody, is a hit or miss thing to get the best possible picture out of the display.

ss

I see MANY video displays as a reviewer and calibrator. I am not limited to a single model or a couple of displays in the house. Plasma and projector-lamp displays (projectors and RPTVs) have inescapable variations when you read the central area of the screen at different times. When calibrating, the calibrator has to be astute enough to know if those variations are coming from adjustment control interactions or due to the display technology itself or due to limitations of the meter. Every video display produces somewhat different measurement in the center versus other areas of the screen, nothing you can do about it. Obviously, some are better than others. Edge-lit LCDs have more variation than TVs with an LED matrix behind the panel, for example.

By "identical," I mean differences from previous measurements that are invisible... dE less than 1 compared to the previous measurements. The meter itself produces some measurement variation so it's unrealistic to expect zero deviation in measurements from any meter. I use a $14,000 meter for measurements... it sits on a tripod 5 to 15 feet from the display (depending on screen size). And I always center the meter on the screen using a pattern with the center clearly marked. The meter reads a circle 1-degree in diameter (visible in the meter's view-finder) so it very consistently measures the same spot each time I return to a video display I'm reviewing or when returning to a calibration customer's theater for any reason. I am also careful to place the meter so it reads from the same angle each time since the angle-of-view of the meter can influence the readings, especially when working on LCDs, high-gain projection screens, and RPTVs.

There are all sorts of ways to mess up measurements and get results that you think mean one thing, but in reality, there's a completely different reason the readings are different. My meter is sensitive enough to produce slightly different readings in an all-black theater room in a basement with 3 large egress windows at midnight just from opening or closing the black-out curtains (which are also black).

Well, I sure hope you do a better calibration job than the ??? Pro Calibrator that came to my place with his $30,000 meter, and left my place with my $975 check, and one 55LHX looking Green around the Gills, the 2nd 55LHX looking like it had struck Gold, and the 55LV9500's 3D looking like it was a somewhat good 2D! And his results were backed by his Boss who commenced to give me s__t for daring to firstly remove his calibrator's resulting settings, then secondly, that I dared to go into the LG Service Menu, and re-calibrate the White Balance settings. (The Green 55LHX, had the Blue Warm Gain, down to 27! - currently with my calibrations, it nestles between 56 to 64)
Sure taught me to concentrate more, and now I have 3 great looking LGs! (No Greens, No Golds, just all natural looking PQs) (Put iScan Duos on all of them to make things a little easier.)

One bone of contention we have right now, is that the S&M and AVS HD 709 Calibration Blu-rays give me essentially the same Contrast, Brightness, Colour and Tint results. Tried the Disney WOW Blu-ray, and firstly, could not get the Basic and Advanced Contrast and Brightness results to agree, and secondly, both were quite a few clicks higher than the S&M and AVS HD 709 results, causing a failure to see the boxes within boxes on the S&M Clipping Pattern.
Edited by p5browne - 11/16/12 at 5:18pm

Why didn't you simply ask for a refund, or ask that the calibrator returns and fixes the problems.

Anyway that is the big advantage that a DIY calibrator like me has over a "Pro" calibrator.
If I see something that I don't like I simply start from scratch and re calibrate. Plus knowing my VT50 as I do, I know what works best.

And now with the latest calibration software and hardware, I can do a LUT 3D 125 point cube CMS and a 21 point gray scale for both 2D and 3D modes.

ss

No refund - they said that the settings were fine and I should have left them alone!
DIY as well - With the New Calman 5, I finally have a software that gets along with my LG Models. Tried the New Updated ChromaPure last night,
Both calibrations look good now, but it's like the Calman results is for Daytime, and ChromaPure for Night viewing

did this calibrator use a spectro? at least for profiling a colorimeter on each display being calibrated?

He was using the CS-1000 ($30,000) Meter, as well as the i!pro.
Had difficulties with both my LG 55LHXs. Started with mine - got nowhere. We went to bed to sleep on it. Awoke next day to find him working on the wife's 55LHX. When finished, transfered to mine. When finished, ran the S&M Demo to show me how good it looks. Told him that Demo looks good on everything, no matter what the settings. Then pulled up the Redhead on the DVE Blu-ray to check skin colour. Put THX stickers on all three of the calibrated LGs. Paid him and he left. (I'm 250 Miles from his home base)
After he left, I went around to each of the sets, and copied down the settings. (He hadn't left me any reports - e-mailed them to me later.) It was at this time that I found that THX wasn't too bad, but all the other modes were not. After viewing for a short period of time, found the Green on mine, and Golden on the wife's was now affecting the THX. Got pissed off, got in touch with him and he told me he had to calibrate my sets this way to meet spec. I've since then re-calibrated all these sets and they look Far Better than what I was left with. Also found when I compared the settings, he'd just transfered my wifes to mine, (With a couple transfer errors.) then worked with them. Both my sets are totally different, and you can't transfer settings.
The only good thing that came out of this was me being so pissed off, I was now more determined to calibrate my sets myself. This has been greatly helped with the New Calman 5, and the New Chromapure that now appear to be able to calibrate these sets properly.
Despite Mr Blackburns assertions, I do find the Pixel Washes do alleviate some problems, and I will always use them prior to a new calibration if it hasn't been done in awhile. (Currently Washing the wife's 47LH90 today, for calibration tomorrow. Wasn't allowed to be touched since we got it. (Wife says It looks fine, just leave it alone! Today, can you fix the Orange People?))

None of the test/setup discs help you determine the best Contrast setting. All they do is reveal the HIGHEST POSSIBLE Contrast setting you can use without clipping. That's not likely to be the RIGHT setting for the Contrast control, especially for LCD panels. The RIGHT setting for Contrast in a dark room is 30-35 fL which can only be determined with a meter. Example... any of the test/setup discs should be able to help you determine whether your TV clips or not... not all TVs clip... some show all steps from 200-254 at every/any Contrast setting. That's worth knowing for times when you want a bright image (like during the daytime), but the highest setting possible is rarely the right setting. Let's say your Contrast control has a range of 0-100. You use a test/setup disc to determine that settings up to 85 show all steps from 200-254. But 86 and higher begin clipping so you lose more and more white steps as you increase the setting above 85. So now you know the highest setting you can use without losing any "white" information. You then make the room dark and setup your calibration software and meter. You then read an appropriate 100% white pattern (small window for Plasma, any 100% white pattern for LCD), and find that at "85" you have 70 fL -- about double the light output you want for a dark room. So you reduce the Contrast setting to 43 and you measure 32 fL, a good setting for a dark room. That means you'd want to use 43 for dark room viewing and that you could go as high as 70 for bright room viewing and still not lose any white detail. The instructions for every test/setup disc I've seen so far (haven't seen the S&M instructions) would lead you to believe that 85 is the right setting.

It should be noted that calibrating a video display can change the settings you'd want to use compared to the non-calibrated video dusplay. And many other settings could change the final setting you want to use also (like differences between Dynamic, Standard, Cinema/Movie modes, etc.).

Unfortunately, I don't like the Contrast and Brightness Patterns chosen by iScan Duo, and have been told they will not be changed. On the older LGs, you can't go above 52 for Brightness, and 50 on the newer Models - after that point, the Backlight doesn't turn off for the Blacks.
For Contrast, AVS 709 HD Blu-ray has me at 83, S&M at 84, WOW Basic at 90, and Advanced at 99. Hence my arguments with Disney. (WOW Brightness - 57)

That doesn't sound right. On a LCD, you want to always use the highest contrast setting that doesn't clip or discolor white and then use the backlight setting to control light output. The only exception would be if the lowest backlight setting is still too bright and then you need to lower contrast from it's optimal setting to keep light output in check (though I've never had a LCD that was that bright at a low/zero backlight setting).
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 11/21/12 at 9:18am

My guess is that it's "except" instead of "especially".

probably

Right... for LCD panels the brightest Contrast setting MIGHT be the right setting... or it might not. It depends on how dark the display is and how well it can be calibrated with dark backlight settings (seems some LCD panels get funky when you start doing calibration when Backlight is set very low or sometimes when set very high. Backlight adds a bit of complexity to determining the best Contrast setting. You may find spectral issues with the lowest Backlight settings that make calibration problematic so Backlight may have to be some number of clicks above minimum for grayscale and CMS to work well. So there's a balancing act to get Backlight and Contrast both set to "ideal" settngs and I've never seen a test/setup disc's instructions that can guide an owner to find the right settings just by eye (no meter). You can learn limits and POSSIBLE good settigns, but you can't tell if everything is right, especially the peak white level, without a meter.

Always set Backlight for around 40 for Evening Viewing, and calibrate from there. Usually when finished with the calibration, the Backlight Value will have gone up.
A recent example was when doing my wife's LG 47LH90 that she finally allowed me to touch. Original BL Value was 80. But knowing how far off LG has it's Service Menu White Balances, when finishing putting to Spec, value was now down to 55. Finished up the Greyscale and CMS - final setting was 35. Fine Tuned the next night, and it could have probably gone down to 30, but left at 35 since the wife likes it a little Brighter. So, it depends on whether your set is calibrated, and how complete the calibration was.

About to swap out my iScan Duo for a Radiance XE - should be an interesting experience!

Installed and running - now just have to figure it all out. Checked Service Menu White Balances and Red seems to be holding.

Nope. Red rising again. Pixel washed and it's back down.
Reset my whole system, manually re-calibrated using the XE, reset 100IRE back to 0,0,0 and did the 125 Point 3D Lut AutoCal - amazing result. Plus, has punch as well due to the Darbee inline.
Corrected - now manually calibrate Grayscale and CMS. AutoCal the 125 Point 3D LUT - set now looks better than any old Pioneer Kuro! (Excepting off to the side viewing - which I don't do anyways.)
Edited by p5browne - 12/15/12 at 6:12pm

LOL Darbee and calibration in the same sentence

I always calibrate with Darbee ON and Inline - if you're going to calibrate your set to the best possible result, why not have all the factors affecting the PQ in the equation when doing the calibration.
Prior to doing this, maximum Darbee was HD 55%, after, now 70% and `Lookin Good!'
If Red is becoming a Problem, then I use the Pixel Washes to bring it back down. (Problem means that the Service Menu White Balance Warm Red, is calibrating to above the 192 value LG recommends. After the Washes, the value is now back down to about 186, but over time, it slowly creeps back up.)

^^^
He was digging at "Darbee + calibration" because the Darbee device is a video processor. As a video processor, it changes the video... it doesn't matter if you calibrate with or without the Darbee device, it changes the video. When the director and/or cinematographer evaluate their movie during the mastering process, they determine exactly how they want the images to look when you view the images at home. If you have a video display that can be calibrated to be pretty accurate, you will see what they wanted you to see. If you insert the Darbee device, you alter what they wanted you to see... essentially de-calibrating the video display. Hence the comment about "Darbee + calibration".

Somewhere else someone tried to "prove" that using a Darbee device was desirable by saying some movies were mastered using Darbee processing. My answer to that was (paraphrased): So if they use a Darbee device while the movie is being mastered, the video on the disc is encoded after the Darbee processing was applied and what is on the disc is what they wanted you to see at home. If you happen to have a Darbee device in your system and you then play one of these "Darbee-d" movies, you Darbee-it a second time... the old Double Darbee. Which is, again, altering the director/cinematographer intent -- they wanted you to see "single Darbee" processing as it was encoded on the disc.

Darbee processing is adaptive... it varies with image content. That means you really won't see much of anything when you calibrate with or without the Darbee device in the signal path. So having the Darbee device active and in the signal path doesn't necessarily mean you've done anything to make Darbee processing "more accurate" since it still changes what comes off of Blu-ray discs.

I'm not anti-Darbee... I use it for cable/satellite viewing but am hesitant to activate it for Blu-ray movies. When I review video displays, I can't use a Darbee device because I have to report how the display looks... not how it looks with a Darbee device.

On my set, Darbee does affect the Red when I did my before installing, and after installing calibration readings. As mentioned, before, the Max Darbee I could do was HD 55% before, after 70%. Also, after calibrating with it inline, I showed a friend, that was over, that pushing the Darbee on POP up to 120%, the video was still tolerable. Could not do this before calibrating with it inline.
Also, on my LG 55LHX, the overall look was somewhat softened, the Darbee gives it that little more detailed appearance. Between the Darbee and the Radiance XE - this TV is absolutely amazing!

Been thinking about it (Ah the headache!) Putting Darbee in after calibration, affects the output from what the Director intended. Calibrated inline, the calibration is now meeting the Director's Spec, because the Meter doesn't lie!
Edited by p5browne - 12/28/12 at 4:45pm

Pixel Protector is now owned by a New Company, and Version 2.1 of the Blu-ray is now available. Have e-mailed the company re more info of the differences between 2.0 and 2.1, but so far have been ignored!
Don't you just love it when a Bigger Company swallows up a Smaller Company, and now the Bigger Company's politics come to the forefront! Had instant responces from the previous owner/s. Not so good so far from the current owner/s.

I have 2.1 Version and it's nothing more than an upscaled dvd version, all videos for Pixel-Optimizing are exact the same as dvd version i have also. Bad quality...

I have the 2.0 Blu-ray, still trying to find out what the differences are between 2.0 and 2.1.
The Pixel Washes are better on the Blu-ray Version, versus the DVD Version except:
The first Pixel Wash worked fine on my older Sony's, but constantly pausing on both my Sony 790 and OPPO 93. The other 2 Washes work OK. Just thought that maybe the First Wash problem had been fixed, and maybe some New Reference Photos had been added.

Apparently there's no 2.0, only the 2.1.
Edited by p5browne - 2/5/13 at 7:17am

Speaking of Red Tinge... My 2 months old Panny 50" ST50 has a red tint in center of the screen like this :

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8435467480_f160407e45_b.jpg

It's visible in 20-40 IRE patterns and harder to notice in upper IRE patterns, watching normal content is fine though ( mostly). I didn't carefully check my set when I bought it so not sure if it's because of a faulty panel, uneven phosphor aged or just IR.
I'll call Customer Support but the chance that they're gonna deny it is high, so I need some professional opinions first, help me out .

If you happen to have the Disney WOW Blu-ray, they have a program on there called Flicker you could try. Not as comprehensive as the Pixel Washes, but if available, you could give that a Try.
Looks like stuck Pixels. Should be covered by your Warranty, but like I said if you have the WOW, try Flicker. Easier then trying to swap out the Panel.

No, I'm talking about screen uniformity. You can see a large redish rectangle in center of the screen.

And that's the art part of calibration, something that most ISF certified calibrators will never understand. Its an absolute and you use your meter and say There its done. Next.

Yeah, I doubt it will do anything for your display. My Samsung had similar issues. The only thing that fixed it was replacing the panel. You can try everything, but don't get your hopes up....best of luck.

This is one of the oddest statements I've run across about calibration.

#1... there is, despite what you may have read elsewhere, no such thing as "daytime calibration" - the mere presence of external light invalidates calibration unless the lighting is consistent and controlled (i.e. coming ONLY from a d65 light source in a room painted neutral gray or black). "Daytime" implies there will be light coming from windows and that light changes from minute to minute making it impossible to calibrate the display. The changing light causes the calibration conditions to change and you'd have to start the calibration over again every minute. The angle of the sun changes the light, clouds passing over the sun change the light, time of day changes the light, seasons changing changes the light, the presence or absense of leaves on the trees changes the light...

All you can do for daytime viewing is determine how bright you can make the display and still have relatively accurate images IN A DARK ROOM. When the room is NOT dark, you can then apply the alternate settings to make images brighter.

ANY software will give you the same answer about how bright you can make a display before major problems set-in. And ANY software should provide the same answer to that question. One or 2 of the 3 primaries might run out of gas at some point... white may clip at some point... etc. ANY software will give you the same answer to that question. Saying that one app does this somehow better than another is very strange -- all the testing and measuring would be done in a dark room... the point being the software would not provide different results if there was light in the room... the meter provides the data to the software. Every app does the same things with the data (some apps have more or fewer options/settings/etc. and more ways to view the data, etc.). If you got different results, it wasn't because of the software, it's because you got different readings from the meter during the different calibration sessions because the light in the room was not identical between the 2 calibration sessions.

The whole concept of "daylight" or "daytime" calibration SOUNDS logical on the surface, but when you examine the truth of the issue, you realize it's not really possible. All you can do is figure out how to make the display bright without getting really inaccurate... the light in the room will make it inaccurate anyway, but better to start with a reasonably accurate image than to have the display highly inaccurate only to have the room light pile-on to the inaccuracy.

Always calibrate and view at night, no reason to do daylight calibrations. If viewing during the day, I just up the Backlight.
Comments were referring to the results I was getting between the 2 softwares. Currently, Calman 5.1 Beta is my current program. When ChromaPure gives me the same, or better results then the Calman 5.1, may consider it again. But then Calman includes allowing me to use multiple Meters, and AutoCal without added expense!
Wife watches anything as long as it has colour, day or night.
Having problems on the Sony 790 and OPPO 93 with the first Pixel Wash pausing. Had no problems with the older Sony's. PixelProtector says I have defective disc, and will send me another - no sign of the New Disc to try out yet - in the Mail somewhere?

A friend of mine who has received the Pixel Protector 2.1 Blu-ray, says that there is a difference from the First Blu-ray we received. Will be interesting if the corrections I mentioned in the 2010 release, have been corrected in this 2.1 version, and if the Pixel Wash 1 now runs correctly.

No difference between the old and new disks except that Pixel Wash 1 works without pausing after a minute on the new disk.

LCD and LED screens are susceptible to burn-in but not in the same way Plasma screens are. The burn looks more like smudges and streaks and in more severe cases you can see the shape of a logo or some text. Manufacturers call LCD/LED burn image persistence. What is Image Persistence? Image persistence is caused by the continuous display of static logos or images on the screen for prolonged periods. This gives the LCD crystals a memory for their location which generates the colours that are being displayed. When a different colour is displayed in that area of the screen, the colour is different from what it should be, a faint image or smudge appears of what was previously there. Can it be removed? PixelProtector can remove Image Persistence and any residual effects that may have occurred. It uses a wash tools that switch pixels on and off at a very fast rate using particular wavelengths to increase the current going to the crystals. (This is not in any way harmful). In other words it recalibrates the pixels uniformly by removing any memory they may have.
Edited by p5browne - 2/21/13 at 5:21pm