** OFFICIAL ** -- Sound Quality (SQ) Discussion - Page 9

Not so fast. You are reading way too much into Toole's white paper. A listening position off the centerline of the L/R loudspeakers may work for multichannel listening w/ a center channel active. And it may provide the most even bass response. But it sacrifices stereo imaging, particularly for two channel listening.

Furthermore, subwoofer placement, room treatments, and digital EQ all can help even bass response at a centerline listening position. But nothing can restore stereo imaging at an off centerline listening position.

See my clarification above...

AJ

This is not the first time DPS has proclaimed facts when in actuality he didn't understand what he was talking about. Everybody needs to read his posts with caution.

It's all a matter of how it sounds to you.
This is not quite like the old days when you had enough audio speciality shops and you were able to take your amp there and connect it to the different speakers and compare.
Of course the rooms were different then your home but it was still a good way to try before you buy!!

Why don't you point us to the specific part of the 3 links you provided that backs up your claim? General concensus is that your speakers should not be centered in your room but they should still be centered on your listening position.

ummm... reference back to one of my very first posts in a conversation with you... i think i'm well aware that all rooms are different acoustically...

however, that doesn't support what you are trying to say (or what you read into the paper)... again, read aj's posts...

fwiw... i (as well as some other posters in this thread) are quite familiar with the whitepaper that you referenced...

I added another sub last week to my system and I have to say it was a nice improvement. Both my subwoofers I have found on craigslist for under 100 so I know they are top quality but they do a good job in my small room. I had a Klipsch KSW10 and added a DefTech Pro Sub 100. I have them on either side of the fronts right now. I had to level match them first because the DefTech is louder than the Klipsch. It also goes a lot lower. The improvement for movies was unbelievable. You can really feel the bass now. I think I could do better for music because there is a bit of boominess but I still need to try some more positions. I've been reading some threads and found out about gain matching as opposed to level matching. I will try that this weekend and see what happens. I was watching Inception last night and it was insane. I think 2 10s in a small room is perfect. It would be nice if they were both matching SVS but that would have cost at least 4 times more than what I paid. I like having the 2 10s better than when I had a 12inch Klipsch a few years ago.

This thread is starting to remind of "I'm not a acoustical expert, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night"

Bill

^^^

LOL!


if you ask them "where is the sweet spot in a 2 channel system, centered or off-center?", i would hope you wouldn't get ten different answers...

there is general agreement on general starting positions for speaker placement in a room, and much of that is backed up by good hard science... there are several "do's and don'ts" that all of them have in common...

much of the "disagreement" these days, it would seem to me, is in what to do about reflections... ranging from the "absorb as much as you can" crowd to some recent work from the controlled directivity crowd showing that with given parameters, little to no absorption was preferred... and everywhere in between (where i, fwiw, fall)... and even that is predicated upon usage... a big dedicated theater room with four rows of seats is a heckuva lot different usage than someone with a pair of speakers and a recliner in front of them...

however, there's 2 parts to speaker placement... "general starting positions" is part 1... part 2 is adjusting those to your room (because, as we know, every room is different) and preferences (because, as we know, everyone's ears are different)...

:d

The worst part of the whole discussion is that it seems 99.9% of the population does not really understand the term Sound Quality.

Hint: Its not SOUND PREFERENCE

In the end all discussions about audio products come down to conclusions about sound preference, very few people actually do the necessary controlled testing and measurements to prove and Sound Quality difference in products.

^^^

bah... details...

Most people can hear below 20Hz, it requires more dBs (see Fletcher-Munson curves) FWIW, I can hear down to about 16Hz and on the high end, I care little about anything over 15KHz. Your point about EQing below 20Hz is misleading, we require LT circuits and High Pass filters all the time in subwoofer designs. I have a 10Hz EQed setting on my LMS5400 design.

btw, I would not bother with Free MiniRator MR1 when REW is the best free software out there for in room bass measurements, including playing any tone you want.

If you cannot hear frequencies >8 kHz, then you have serious hearing loss.

AJ

+1. And if you can't hear sounds below 30 Hz, you probably need to turn it up. Fletcher-Munson curves dictate that the SPL that is comfortably loud at 1 KHZ may be inaudible at 20 or 30 Hz . . . . Since everybody is subject to F-M, sounds we hear that appear to have a lot of low frequency REALLY have a lot of low frequency, but as you turn them down (or move away from a "real" sound in an outdoor environmnet) the bass will appear to get quieter faster, because that's how our hearing works.

Ah, I undestand what you are posting. I will say that since I do not care about > 15KHz I choose to find speaker designs that do not focus on the importance of > 15KHz.

Even if you don't hear frequencies below 30 Hz you still feel them.

This should be renamed the LOL Thread. I smell flames ** OFFICIAL ** Also, I don't think it belong in AMPs, Receivers, and Processors thread.