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Official Sony HX929 Owner's thread (46HX929, 55HX929, 65HX929) No Price Talk - Page 434

post #12991 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Could some one explain if it is possible to increase the refresh rate at higher than 60Hz via an nVidia graphics card on the 929. (not in 3D mode)

With the PC connected at native 1080p resolution I am able to select 60Hz, 59Hz, 30Hz and 29Hz. I cannot do higher. Not that I need too, but I thought it might be nicer on the eyes at a higher refresh. 80Hz is always nice to look at.

Am I misunderstand Hz of the TV and PC refresh rates?




Sorry, I did find this info elsewhere, but I could not find anything in this thread about this issue. (though it is possible it is here, buried somewhere).

I'll leave this solution here for search purposes.

"120Hz HDTVs and 120Hz PC monitors operates differently.

120Hz HDTVs only accepts 60Hz inputs. The 120Hz refers to video processing done internally by the HDTV to smooth out video and also give it that "live" look. In between every two actual from the source the HDTV will create an intermediate frame. Gaming wise, this creates input lag because it requires time for the HDTV to make an intermediate frame. You need to switch the HDTV to "60Hz mode" to eliminate this input lag. This also applies to 240Hz HDTVs.

120Hz PC monitor accepts dual linked DVI-D (60Hz each link). Apparently you did your research on 120Hz PC monitors and simply assumed it applies to HDTVs as well. 120Hz HDTVs came out before 120Hz monitors."
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/290737-33-120hz-displaying-60hz-refresh-rate"

So...the next question is can I MacGyver the set to receive dual DVI signals by some magic and then would I be able to get higher refresh rates? (I kid, I'm a kidder)
post #12992 of 15537
All broadcast in the USA are 60 hz as with electrical.
post #12993 of 15537
Datacide: No. :-)
post #12994 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Sorry, I did find this info elsewhere, but I could not find anything in this thread about this issue. (though it is possible it is here, buried somewhere).

It is, and it is buried, it's been asked a couple times the last couple weeks.

Another point to make is that the 120Hz is also being used to avoid 3:2 pull down on 24fps content coming from a blu-ray player. So you don't get any stutter caused by unequal pull down. It is pretty obvious to me on pans, so I'm fairly glad for it. Too bad most TVs still can't detect and reverse pull down common for broadcast unless the TV is also deinterlacing.
post #12995 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post

It is, and it is buried, it's been asked a couple times the last couple weeks.

Ahh...I've been reading in order and I'm only at Pg. 90 and it has been mostly fighting over blooming and early owners angst.

Sorry for the duplication.
post #12996 of 15537
Could I ask if someone has really understood which is the effective difference between "clear" and "clear plus"? Is the motionflow XR-800 (960) enabled in both mode (with resolution of 1080 lines)?

Thanks to anyone could explain one time for all what that two different modes do.
post #12997 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Could some one explain if it is possible to increase the refresh rate at higher than 60Hz via an nVidia graphics card on the 929. (not in 3D mode)

With the PC connected at native 1080p resolution I am able to select 60Hz, 50Hz, 30Hz and 29Hz. I cannot do higher. Not that I need too, but I thought it might be nicer on the eyes at a higher refresh. 80Hz is always nice to look at.

Am I misunderstand Hz of the TV and PC refresh rates?

The maximum you can select is 60Hz, LCDs are different in the way the refresh the screen compared to CRTs. 60Hz is flicker-free and should give you a sharp picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rate

Quote:
Refresh rate or the temporal resolution of an LCD is the number of times per second in which the display draws the data it is being given. Since activated LCD pixels do not flash on/off between frames, LCD monitors exhibit no refresh-induced flicker, no matter how low the refresh rate.
post #12998 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Ahh...I've been reading in order and I'm only at Pg. 90 and it has been mostly fighting over blooming and early owners angst.

Sorry for the duplication.

Why are you reading all of this stuff? Is there a specific question or inquiry you need answered?
post #12999 of 15537
Has anyone figured out these things:

1) What Cinemotion does?

- someone said it affected how motionflow works, but there are times (specifically, in Game Mode) when it is possible to activate while Motionflow is off. What exactly does it do?

2) How to activate Skin Naturalizer?

- comparing this to my old PND8000, the skin tones leave a bit to be desired, and would like as much help as possible to dial these in correctly.

3) Why the side edges of the screen are lighter/cooler than the middle (check your "No Input" screen) if this is not an edgelit screen?

- This is really my only issue with the set after months of use. Some colors (grey, tan (desert scenes), light blue, pink, etc.) are affected more than others, and it's a bit jarring sometimes.

- I've really only had my hands on two different HX929 sets, but I've seen around 3 display models that had the same issue, yet no one seems to complain/mention it.

- I am NOT talking about the left-to-right/cool-to-warm color shift; THIS doesn't bother me.

4) Professional calibrators do something "other" than adjust user setting values?

- I really want to optimize my picture, but it's hard to justify throwing ~$300 for something I MAY be able to achieve by accident already.
post #13000 of 15537
One more question.

I'm using the WOW disc to calibrate the set, and I've noticed that gamma tests are affected by Sharpness adjustments, which is complete rubbish.

Can I just "eyeball" Gamma at this point?

I've found that my looks better the lower Gamma is set. If all other adjustments are good, does Gamma REALLY matter?
post #13001 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

We spoke about this topic over in the:
Which LED TV's will have the most uniform screen? Here's copy of that conversation:

Originally Posted by burntIce
Sorry, I disagree, the 65" HX929 has issues with vertical banding more or less evident in every panel I have seen. (search the official thread for details).

Sorry burntice, but I dissagree...vertical banding more or less evident in every panel? You must be a banding magnet when you look at these

The Sony thread does not speak of the banding issue as much as your pressing. Folks, do a search on banding to find out how few have brought the issue up.

Sorry you have banding issues with your 65". Bummer there!
The banding issues were more prevalent on the earlier XBR units. The tread even speaks of some of the units that had banding, the banding disappeared after a while; and that the later units being more banding free. The 65" I had did not have any banding issues, nor did I notice any flashlighting or clouding at all. Lucky guy I guess.

Only issue I found on the XBR65HX929 was some blooming, and even the Elite has blooming too.
My findings were noted prior in this thread.

Sorry but vertical bands exist on all of these panels regardless of the manufacturing date. I looked at 55" and 65" displays in the HiFi shop and at Best Buy and then all three 65" sets I had in my house had them. That is 100% average on the sets I received in my home and that I saw in the stores. This is not a coincidence


Well I am officially done with Sony . I was a long supporter of Sony. I have owned Sony 32" & 36" CRT XBR's, Bravia 2 XBR's and SXRD 2020 and 3000 series projections and this HX 65" set. I am now a happy owner of a Samsung PN64E8000 Plasma, my fourth and my last set in the past 4 months. I have to admit that this Sony set is poorly made, The build quality varies so much from set to set that it is hard to believe that these are made buy the same company and use the same parts and components.

My local Hifi shop sells every high end set out there. Sharp Elite, Samsung, Panasonic, Hitachi and of course Sony. So I am fortunate that I get see all the top offerings from all these companies in one shop. That is how I chose the new E8000 series plasma from Samsung.

My history of issues in 4 months with 3 completely different 65" sets. 2 built in 2011 and 1 in 2012.

1) I had the same two vertical bands 12 inches apart on my first set and second set. The third set had thinner bands that ran 1" apart and were much less apparent but these were on the entire width of the screen. I don't care what anyone says about looking for problems with the LCD screen, these flaws will stand out and find you because they are so bad. The first blu-ray movie played on these sets and any solid or light colors, or in my case every Hockey game in HD it looked like someone had painted dual solid lines on a highway going down the middle of the screen vertically. Not only were they very noticeable on any material, when you see how bad it showed on any source material you just wanted to puke. You begin to despise you spent 5k on this set. The shop that I bought it from came out to pick up my 1st set and drop off my replacement, saw these exact same issues with my set and both the owner of the shop and his lead technician said that they have never seen such a broad range of issues and problems with any LCD set like these Sony HX929's. All three of my sets had varied stages of "vertical banding". DSE was poor on two and acceptable on the 2012 set. The third set had light bleed problems on the bottom right hand corner of the screen when viewed from off axis viewers on the left side of the room. There were issues with motionflow cinemotion causing pauses in the video processing. I saw this issue with my SXRD but is was very slight and only happened once in a while. With this set it happens every other day and I was very disappointed when I started to see this happening on this HX929 set. It happens so inconsistently but it happens. The video all of a sudden stops and jumps two or three inches in either direction and it only happened to material in the middle 50% of the screen, and it does not happen consistently but it does happen. It is like someone took a editing cropping window and took a snapshot in the middle of the screens picture and froze that image and then released it. The surrounding image usually is unaffected by this but it is the strangest artifact I have ever seen on a motion processing engine. It is like a stutter in the video's flow if there was ever such a thing. It happens more on Cable and Sat but only 5 times have I caught it doing it on Blu-Ray material. Major disappointment since they claim this is the best motion engine out there.

I do know that this is a engine 3:2 pull down flaw because when you turn off both Motion Flow and Cinemotion the problem does not happen until it is reactivated on the set.

2) Poor electronics. You can not set up these sets when you go through the initial setup and try to use wifi as part of the initial setup process. Each of the three sets failed to complete the setup process and proceeded to reboot on and off until a master reset was performed on the set and you bypassed any network wifi configuration on the initial setup.

This issue was replicated with the shop technician when he came out to my home, he saw it and agreed this was piss poor QC. It is not a wifi issue I have two Blu-Ray players, phones and other devices that connect the very first time when using WPA2 security and after the password has been typed in. It did not matter what sec mode was used AES or TKIP. It failed on both. Every IPAD, IPOD and mobile device I have works with out issue. Only the TV has this problem.

The lip sync issue on 2 of these sets with any video processing or motionflow settings was inexcusable. You buy a set and the set has no adjustment for lip sync offset or delay in the TV's menu. Only if you run every source though you AV Processor can you fix this lip sync problem. Not to mention the poor excuse for stereo speakers that are built into this set. They sound as bad as the built in speakers in any LCD computer monitor that you can buy today, absolute junk.

Two set's brand new out of the box, both of the sets flashed 8 red lights upon initial setup. After talking to the shop technician he confirmed my findings on this issue. Relating on to a internal circuit board issue.

The remote control commands buffer is not big enough to handled rapid remote commands. The remote and tv would become unresponsive to remote commands. I was not hitting every key like I was typing on a keyboard but I was selecting up and down side to side options and the tv menu would freeze then jump x amount of times that I had pushed the remote panning buttons. I am 8 ft away from the set and have a direct line of sight to the remote sensor. This happened on only one of the sets my last one. So its hard to tell if this is a firmware issue or an actual component change in the hardware of the set.

Internet technology in this set is a distant 2nd to Samsung. The new Samsung Plasma has more features and is now hardware upgradeable. That alone puts Sony at the bottom of the list.

3) Sony support is pathetic. I called Sony to inform them of my issue's. They took my information from a previous call and set up a in home service call and tried to have a local factory service center come out and fix the set. I called Sony and I called the local support shop and asked them why and what parts were ordered. The repair shop had no clue but still needed to schedule a appointment to install the phantom replacement parts.

How in the world do you order parts when you haven't even seen or performed any hands on diagnostics of the set. And you wonder why they try and charge you 5k for this set.

So now a new Samsung PN64E8000 Plasma sits where the Sony was. The Blacks on the new Samy Plasma's are as dark as the Sony. I remember the D8000 and this was not the case last year. The new black filter that Samsung is advertising works on this Plasma, 15% better black levels. The picture was incredible and can't wait to test the 3D mode. Internet is much better and many more cool options to show off to your friends, the hand gesture control is very cool. What else is nice is that I have $1500 back in my bank account also, because the E8000 sticker cost less than the HX929.

So to make a long story short I have a new set that I am happy with and I can truly say my Sony days are officially over. I hope no one has to go through what I have. It is just extremely frustrating that Sony has gotten so bad with their electronics, "TV's". I wanted to keep this set but after three bad sets and my third one still had problems, that was it. I gave Sony the chance to give me a functional set and I was more than willing to wait for a product that overall was held to my standards of performance at this price level. This set failed IMO with to many flaws during regular normal usage, I would not expect to have all these issues from a TV in this price range. It is just not acceptable IMO.

post #13002 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Why are you reading all of this stuff? Is there a specific question or inquiry you need answered?

It is a new TV and a long while since I've had to play the setup game with a TV. I have many questions, which the thread answers pretty much all of.

The thread is an excellent example of testing and trial and error people have done. It gives insight over a period of time that would take me almost longer to work through on my own. Excellent example of people's settings, likes and dislikes. Why wouldn't you read it?

I read and participated in the Samsung LNTxx81F thread for that full array set and it sings amazingly and has a wonderful new home in my family room. I didn't have to spend a cent on professional calibration or anything.
post #13003 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by swugly View Post

Has anyone figured out these things:

1) What Cinemotion does?

- someone said it affected how motionflow works, but there are times (specifically, in Game Mode) when it is possible to activate while Motionflow is off. What exactly does it do?


3) Why the side edges of the screen are lighter/cooler than the middle (check your "No Input" screen) if this is not an edgelit screen?

I found this the other day for #1 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1117754

As for #3. I don't see the phenomenon you are talking about. You mean the default background on the "No Signal" with the lens flair in the top right corner? I don't notice the edges being brighter.
post #13004 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

It is a new TV and a long while since I've had to play the setup game with a TV. I have many questions, which the thread answers pretty much all of.

The thread is an excellent example of testing and trial and error people have done. It gives insight over a period of time that would take me almost longer to work through on my own. Excellent example of people's settings, likes and dislikes. Why wouldn't you read it?

I read and participated in the Samsung LNTxx81F thread for that full array set and it sings amazingly and has a wonderful new home in my family room. I didn't have to spend a cent on professional calibration or anything.

For what its worth, I was not beinge critical, but I was trying to see if I or others could save you some time. Happy reading.
post #13005 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyo321 View Post

I hope no one has to go through what I have. It is just extremely frustrating that Sony has gotten so bad with their electronics, "TV's". I wanted to keep this set but after three bad sets and my third one still had problems, that was it. I gave Sony the chance to give me a functional set and I was more than willing to wait for a product that overall was held to my standards of performance at this price level. This set failed IMO with to many flaws during regular normal usage, I would not expect to have all these issues from a TV in this price range. It is just not acceptable IMO

My same feelings, your experience with the 65 is very similar to mine.
post #13006 of 15537
toyo321 - I feel your pain. My experience with Samsung has been worse: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1402284
I'm picking up the new LG LM6700 tonight. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
post #13007 of 15537
Yeah its really amazing how hard it is to get a good product that truly does work and function as it was advertised or supposed to.
post #13008 of 15537
My Component adapter for my hx929 broke and I need a new one. Anyone know where to find one? Thank you.
post #13009 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mike Ferrara View Post

toyo321 - I feel your pain. My experience with Samsung has been worse: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1402284
I'm picking up the new LG LM6700 tonight. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

There is no prefect TV.
post #13010 of 15537
Here is a pic; it actually looks a bit worse than this.

I have posted pics before, but others claimed it was normal. If it's not, I'm gonna give Sony a call ASAP and see what can be done.

Can anyone else post pics of their No Input screen for comparison? Please???

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/IMAG0329.jpg
post #13011 of 15537
Also, out of curiosity. Has anyone tinkered with the bottom half of their white balance settings. I've tried all combinations of favorable top-half settings (Cnet, IMRIZZO, etc.), but there's something lacking in the darker colors. I'd love to see how people are, if at all, calibrating the darker colors.
post #13012 of 15537
Hi swugly, maybe others can help you more with more opinions but I'd say that's light bleed/clouding in the panel as local dimming is disabled in the no input screen. If I inspect my screen can see clouding too in some spots (your light bleed seems more severe in the left side) but in mine it doesn't show when watching something (or at least I have never noticed it and never has bothered me).

If this lack of uniformity shows in actual programming with loc dim in standard and it bothers YOU, I say call sony and complain. True no TV is perfect but there is no point in keeping a tv if this is distracting and don't let you concentrate on the picture. Just my opinion.
post #13013 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

There is no prefect TV.

Agreed. But I've come very close in my home theater with a JVC projector that's been IFS calibrated. Maybe I'm setting expectations too high, but although the Samsung TVs can produce spot on color and excellent resolution and dynamic range, the screen uniformity issues are very problematic, and this seems to be an issue with most flat screens. See, I'm replacing a 10 y.o. Sony HD CRT that had the most georgous picture, so I'm new to the flat panel arena.
post #13014 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by swugly View Post

Here is a pic; it actually looks a bit worse than this.

I have posted pics before, but others claimed it was normal. If it's not, I'm gonna give Sony a call ASAP and see what can be done.

Can anyone else post pics of their No Input screen for comparison? Please???

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/IMAG0329.jpg


I dunno if that is a great example to use though. I don't find that image to be uniform all the way across to being with. As burntIce said, there are also features not enabled when there is no input. My clouding shows back up on that image, but disappears when my picture settings kick in with an input signal.

I've got a PC hooked up to the 929 and have run a huge amount of full screen colours through it and I was pretty amazed with the results. Neither my crappy Sharp TV (which shows horrible vertical banding) nor my lovely Samsung LN-T4681F (also full array) have the uniformity that I get with the 929.

Certainly complain to Sony if you like, but I'd run some more tests and examples before doing that.
post #13015 of 15537
Just noticed on Crutchfield it says discontinued. Has it been like this and they are not carrying it for 2012 or is the set really going to be discontinued?
post #13016 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77Pat View Post

Just noticed on Crutchfield it says discontinued. Has it been like this and they are not carrying it for 2012 or is the set really going to be discontinued?

It is effectively discontinued in Canada. It is pulled from Sony's Canada website (after showing a "backorder date" for several months) and every retailer including all the Sony Style stores have them on "back order" since Jan.

I've heard rumours about part unavailability due to the tsunami making production come to a crawl. Also, they'll likely have a new flagship model for 2012...even though I've also heard rumours of them continuing production on the 929 through 2012.

I would take them as extremely hard to get if not impossible now...as for being discontinued...all signs seem to point in that direction, but I certainly don't know for sure.
post #13017 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by swugly View Post

Here is a pic; it actually looks a bit worse than this.

I have posted pics before, but others claimed it was normal. If it's not, I'm gonna give Sony a call ASAP and see what can be done.

Can anyone else post pics of their No Input screen for comparison? Please???

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/IMAG0329.jpg

Please post a signal image.
post #13018 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by swugly View Post

Here is a pic; it actually looks a bit worse than this.

I have posted pics before, but others claimed it was normal. If it's not, I'm gonna give Sony a call ASAP and see what can be done.

Can anyone else post pics of their No Input screen for comparison? Please???

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/IMAG0329.jpg

What is that pic of? For info, the uniformity on my 55HX923 is very similar to yours...ie not what you would expect for this level of TV. However it seems to be normal.
post #13019 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

It is effectively discontinued in Canada. It is pulled from Sony's Canada website (after showing a "backorder date" for several months) and every retailer including all the Sony Style stores have them on "back order" since Jan.

I've heard rumours about part unavailability due to the tsunami making production come to a crawl. Also, they'll likely have a new flagship model for 2012...even though I've also heard rumours of them continuing production on the 929 through 2012.

I would take them as extremely hard to get if not impossible now...as for being discontinued...all signs seem to point in that direction, but I certainly don't know for sure.

Sony has plenty. Check out their site.
post #13020 of 15537
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Sony has plenty. Check out their site.

No, they don't in Canada (Sony has a separate Canadian site). Head on over to Sony.ca and you find only the 65" 929. The others have been removed from the site. They used to be there with a backdate entry and for pretty much all of March they've been completely absent from the site.

All the retailers in Canada cannot get them.

I can't speak to Sony US's site. They list them, but you have no idea what their stock situation is like. Considering how bad (non-existent) the availability is in Canada...I would expect the same drying up to happen soon in the U.S. This coupled with Pat77's post about them being listed as "discontinued" via Crutchfield's website would seem to support this supposition.
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