Official Panasonic DMP-BDT110/210/310 Owners Thread - Page 261

I have the 2011 version which works great. Panny doesn't change the codes for the major functions so the 2012 is probably usable for the 2011 units. Why don't you DL the 2012 version and see if you like it? You can always delete it and DL the 2011 if you don't like it.

Will absolutely give that a try as soon as I get home (am a 'Road Warrior' and won't be home until Friday)!

Thanks.

I've been viewing more blu-ray material and it seems that this problem occurs only in sideway movement. It is like some most detailed parts of the picture are slightly lagging and loosing detail. Maybe it is a feature or image processor is not powerful enough. Is it possible motion is handled differently between 110 and 210? I've seen in this thread mentioned they should be the same, but I haven't seen any actual side by side reviews between the two.

Could folks who own a BDT210 and have a Netflix subscription try out something for me?

Could you please search for the TV Show Warehouse 13 and see if you are able to play any episodes from it?

I used to be able to do this about 3 months ago, and suddenly I can no longer access the episode list or the action buttons for this TV series. The name, description, and cover image of the TV series show up, but nothing else (the action box on the lower right corner is completely blank). I can watch all other movies and TV series just fine.

I called up Netflix tech support 3-4 times over the last three months, we have tried everything from removing the show from my queue, to completely resetting the Netflix App on the device (which is like a 15-key sequence on the remote). They also sent it to the Netflix programming department to see if there was an error on their end, but they said they had received no other complaints on this.

So I wanted to see if it's unique to just me or to this device. Thanks!

I just pulled it up on mine. I was able to scroll through the episode list and watch the first 5 mins of the pilot. Looked good here.

That's frustrating. Have you tried playing from PC instead? That should tell whether it's your device or your Netflix account.

Works fine for me too. Tried from both search and Instant Queue.

Hi Lebowski,

As you know by now, consensus here is that there are no PQ differences between the x10 models, only the well documented differences in HDMI ports, Wi-Fi, hand waving, sound effects and status display. Of course we could all be wrong (that happens) but I believe it to be true.

If I understand you correctly, the only indication you have that there would be a difference, is because you see a display artifact on your PJ with the 110 that hometheaterhifi didn't report in their 210 review. Correct?

Don't get me wrong here, but I would say there are so many other things that could explain this: Difference between your PJ and the display they used in the review (when they even looked beyond their HDMI analyzer); difference between PAL and NTSC units (you already mentioned that 50/60 Hz flicker); a defect unit (you said your drive is noisy, which the review doesn't mention); HDMI transmission errors (these pannys have weak drivers, you probably have a long cable to your PJ); just to mention a few.

Also, if there were serious display artifacts inherent to the 110 model, I have to believe more people here would have seen it. There are a lot of critical eyes in this forum. I have two myself

My point is merely that I think you should focus on fixing that issue with your 110 -- or replacing it if you can't, since the unit might be defective. That's gotta be a better use of your time instead of speculating about differences between the models.

I hope you don't misunderstand me here, we're long past the negativity. I am genuinely trying to give you the best advice I can.

Sorry I didn't get back to you the other day, Gizmo.

Yes, being able to play the file is clearly progress, it means your MKV container is working now. Unfortunately the freezes are more likely to be a sign of an incompatible encode than problems with MKV container. Particularly if it happens on a wired network drive and/or USB drive (meaning latency isn't the issue).

I say unfortunately because it means you may need to re-encode.

Did you disable header removal in the Options dialog in MKVmerge or on the Options tab for the specific track? The global setting under Options is your best bet since it disables for both audio and video tracks.

For re-encoding, I would previously have said look for post by ktm911 containing "Prospero" (or just follow the links I sent previously). He investigated Handbrake a lot -- which we KNOW can produce compatible files -- but it's awfully slow. And there are other encoding tools that work as well. I seem to remember some members posted success stories around Feb timeframe using a new tool I have never tried.

If you are already disgusted with the player (which it sounded like) and if you cannot get it working simply by remuxing, I am afraid re-encoding isn't likely to make you less frustrated...

Again, let us know what you find out.

I know that is the consensus here and it certainly sounds logical that blu-ray and DVD playback should be the same between these models. However like I said, I could not find any side by side reviews. Has even anybody here had both units same time?


Well, that certainly comes to my mind as one possible cause.
Or maybe different reviewers concentrate on different things. However I consider Hometheaterhifi one of the most reliable reviewers.

I find one BDT310 review here in Europe that seems (I say seems because this is taken from google german to english translation) to describe similar issue.
Here is link to that review: http://translate.google.com/translat...ergleich.shtml
There is picture comparison at the end of the review.


That could be it but then again, I find it hard to believe they would use so much different software or hardware for blu-ray playback here. I actually downloaded USA and Europe firmwares and compared files. They are bit to bit identical. That does not mean there could not be differencies because the same firmware version is for all three different models even there are hardware differencies between them. And same firmware is for all regions.
Still I find it hard to believe they would have altered 1080/24p playback for Europe because it is no different here. Sure some 1080/50p output could be tailor made for us.


I think noises are within specifications for this unit.
Also I don't think faulty drive would manifest itself like that.


I have long cable from AV-receiver to PJ but only about 7 ft long high speed HDMI cable from player to AV-receiver (even I don't use 3D or deep color).

I genuinely believe that AV-receiver should be acting as signal amplifier, at least it does not simply work as manual switch simply connection input pins to output. I checked block diagram from my AV-receiver and signal goes like this from HDMI input to output for video: Equalizer > SIL9135 HDMI receiver > SIL9134 HDMI transmitter. I think this way my projector gets signal from AV-receiver. I never have had any problem with it so far.

Then again I think weak HDMI signal problems should not manifest itself like this or should be doing something else too.


Problem I'm describing here is not very obvious. I think most would not even notice it but it caught my attention but I'm very, very, very critical viewer. Probably too critical.


I see if I can get another unit to try out. Unfortunately 210 is not available from shops here anymore.


I realize that but I certainly want to make sure that everyone here are not just making assumptions that these 110, 210 and 310 are similar units picturewise. I'd like to see more actual evidence or comparisons between the units.


Sure, no problem.

Hope it works for you. But don't be surprised if it doesn't. We already know the 2011 app won't work on 2012 players even though the commands are the same.

Thanks for testing (frankhj thank you too). Very frustrating indeed. I can watch it on a PC. I can also watch it on my iPad. It's only the BDT210 that's giving me trouble.

It looks like it's my player that has the problem, but I'm surprised resetting the Netflix app did not resolve the issue. The player must have cached something that cannot be reset somehow.

Any ideas anyone? Is there a factory reset on this player that may delete everything?

really need help deciding between these two players, the older 310 is a little more expensive, wondering what some owners think and if anyone has had both??

thanks

Of course the newer one. What's the benefit of 310 over 220? There are many benefits of 220 over 310. I know there is 310 to Yuma. But you don't wanna go there.

Well I have read some issues with connecting the 220 to wifi for some, and i kind of like the ability to just wave my hand over the top to open the tray, lol. just such a price drop for the 220 even though it has the same specs pretty much as the 310, just wondering if this was one of those...you get what you pay for scenerio's

They have quite different specs: 310 is Panasonic's 2011 top model with dual HDMI (for HDMI 1.3 AVRs that don't pass through 3D). 220 is 2012 entry level model.

Unless you NEED the dual HDMI of the 310 (or cannot live without the hand waving thing ;-) ) I would say 220 is a no-brainer. It solves several issues with 2011 models and has new features like 24p VOD.

Edit: several members who had both players have posted in the 2012 thread.

yeah i was thinking the same thing, i have a 100 i believe..that cam with my VT25 Plasma a few years back, time to upgrade. my AVR has 1.4 so that should be fine. i just dont like things that are "entry level" but the 320 i just think is ugly and the 500 is to much $ for nothing.

... also many have reported that the "hand waving" breaks fairly quickly.

EDIT: As Brandenborg says below, many of us Panasonic guys have switched to Sony this year since they finally replaced their formerly terrible Netflix player. Sony also adds real DLNA support, a lot more apps and a web browser. Panny still has a few unique capabilities like FLAC support and 24p streaming. So it all depends on your requirements. I'm a heavy DLNA user, so Sony is a no-brainer. I sold or gave away all my other panasonics (except my recorder).

@jharm: I have 110, last year's entry model, and I think 220 looks pretty great. Some people like this year's Sony better though.

And as for the hand wavy, see mdavej's comment!

thanks for all the responses guys, just picked up my 220 from Best Buy, 134.99 right now online free shipping or in-store-pickup.

Didnt need the dnla, wish i had known about the browser but dont think id use it much anyway.

Not a bad deal. Sony's browser is very awkward to use anyway, so you're not missing anything there.

Ok Branden, this is where I am at the moment. Files are now playing but long winded. I have header removal under global setting. The problem is with the container and not the encode. For some reason if I have an MP4 file and I use MKVMerge to change container to MKV, the Panasonic player will play for 3 seconds and then freeze. Now if I then extract those contents from the MKV container to separate files (.h265, .aac, .srt) using MKVExtract and the use MKVMerge again to remux using those extracted 3 files, then the file plays flawlessly. The same I have to do with any MKV files that don't play at all. Now I have attempted to create a batch file but the issue is from file to file the track numbers varies and on top of that the file names are different from movie to movie and not to mention that various video and audio formats within the container. The process is so long winded. MP4 takes 3 steps; mux, extract and remux and MKV takes 2 steps; extract and remux. Is there any way to break down to the source of the problem and apply some fix rather than this tedious process which can take up to 4 minutes per file?

I have attached info of two files, one which doesn't play and the other which plays after extracted and remuxed. Any help most appreciated.

Thanks a lot, Gizmo.

That is indeed puzzling. If I understand you correctly, you're creating an MKV with MKVmerge, and it doesn't play. Then you extract the tracks from that newly created MKV and mux them again with MKVmerge, and now it plays. Correct?

I am not at my PC right now, but I'll take a look at the MKVinfo dumps you send when I get back (not till Monday).

But you're definitely on the right track with analyzing the header and field differences between the two (that's how I found that Header Removal Compression wasn't compatible with the Panny). MKVmerge has a ton of options, and maybe one of them will do the trick to get it working in first pass.

Two things you can try as well:

1) Use MKVmerge to re-mux the failing MKV directly into another MKV, without extracting the tracks first. (Re-muxing incompatible MKVs is generally one of the recommended uses of MKVmerge, however the assumption was always that the failing MKV came from somewhere else.) If that works, you should be able to do it with batch files, since you don't have to deal with the names of extracted tracks. It sounds like you're well versed in batch'ing already, but if you need examples of advanced FOR loops and file processing, I posted some to ktm911 and smckean in mid November last year. They should be easy to find. Otherwise let me know.

2) As a last resort, try the muxer that comes with Haali Media Splitter. It is far more simplistic and doesn't have all the nice features of MKVmerge, but its MKV files are the most barebones (and Panny-compatible) that I know. You have to disable "Minimize output file size" in Haali, otherwise it won't play (probably Header Removal again, though it doesn't say).

If you can find out what is causing the difference between the first MKV created by MKVmerge (which doesn't play) and the second one (which does play) -- AND which MKVmerge option solves it -- that could be the next big discovery in MKV for these players.

Thanks again.

Edit: Here are the links to those posts with batch file examples:
Convert all files in a folder into MKVs
Cycle through DVD archive with sub-folders of VOB files and create MKVs for each folder

Thanks Branden. I followed your advice and tried that MKV file that doesn't play and just remuxed it without extracting (disabling header removal compression). What happens in that case is that I get the video running for about 3 seconds or so and then blank black screen but the audio keeps running. I then remuxed that remuxed file again and still the same. It only works if extracted first and then muxed with header removal compression disabled. I have also tried the GDSMux which comes with the Haali Media Splitter and cannot get beyond 1.3%. Will look at the batch examples forwarded and update of progress if any.

Thanks for the update. This is really, really odd -- and of course frustrating, I understand that. But it is also promising, in the sense that many MKV files, which people had to re-encode entirely in order to play them (and I concluded that the encodes simply didn't adhere to the Panny's strict limitations), may have been playable after all if re-muxed the right way. We still don't know what that right way is, except to demux entirely and make the MKV anew.

For my part this one will have to simmer until I am back Monday. But I am very interested in what you find out, and I will touch base with you when I come back.

As for the batch files, that's probably not going to work as long as you have to extract those tracks, because the batch file doesn't know their names. Hmmm... but you do know their extensions in advance, right?

I don't think MKVmerge accepts wild cards. But maybe you can use a FOR loop to enumerate each track file name after extraction (probably just one of each type), save it in an environment variable, then use that in the MKVmerge command. Something like this:

Of course you would need another FOR loop to cycle through each original file and call this one with the right input and/or output file names. Those previous links I posted should help with that.

Alternatively you can echo each track file name into an input file and build the entire input file for MKVmerge. Like this:

But this would all be heck of a lot easier if we could bypass that extraction. And even easier if the Panny wasn't so picky about file formats in the first place. (Someone would have posted that if I hadn't said it )

Thanks mate but I'm not too good with those strings, just know the basic If errorlevel commands and stuff. What I have been doing recently is playing about with the dos version of MKMerge and MKVInfo. I have been comparing two MKVs (one which plays and which doesn't) and trying to play about with the MKVMerge.exe options and get the two files to display identical on MKVinfo. I have almost got the two files to look the same but have noticed that under Audio Track, the CodecPrivate Length is not the same between the two files. One is showing 5 and the other is showing 7. If I could change the CodecPrivate length to read the same on both files and it still does not play, then we can assume that MKVInfo will be no help in determining why files play when Muxed with extracted content. At least that way efforts can be put elsewhere. However, I can't seem to be able to find a way to change the CodecPrivate length.

Hi again Gizmo,

OK, understood. Lets focus on finding out why the original MKVs don't play properly (the straight run of MKVmerge, without extracting first). Again, that's what would be valuable to others as well. If we should fail in that, I can help you with some batch files to extract and re-mux the tracks into a new MKV.

The difference in CodecPrivate Length for the AAC track may or may not be significant. That value merely reflects the amount of parameter data that further specifies the codec beyond CodecID. I.e. it's not a setting in itself. As far as I could see on matroska.org, AAC tracks shouldn't even use CodecPrivate, so I am puzzled why it would be there in the first place.

Here are a few things you can try:

1) Try a different MKVmerge version. I use 5.01, mostly because I never bothered to update it. I have no reason to believe that newer versions break compatibility, but it's worth a shot -- with minimum effort.

2) Try and create an MKV without the audio track (first run, without extracting first): Disable its checkmark under Tracks, chapters and tags. Actually first try with the video track only. Then try with video and audio tracks. Then try with video and subtitle tracks. This is to isolate which track causes the hangup.

3) Depending on what you discover in (2) check the following MKVmerge options (selectable from "Muxing menu > Add command line options" in the GUI):

--disable-lacing
--engage native_mpeg4
--engage force_passthrough_packetizer
--engage old_aac_codecid

4) Also try and play with the manually added option --aac-is-sbr (in the same GUI dialog, you just enter it manually). You need to specify track ID and 0/1 (disable/enable) for the AAC track. Maybe you can simply enter instead of track ID and it will fill it in for you. Here is the info from the MKVmerge documentation that made me think it might be relevant:


As promised, I will look a bit more into this tomorrow, when I am back at my PC. I just wanted you to have something to work with until then.

@Gizmo

I downloaded a number of trailers and sample videos today, all H.264/AVC High Profile @L4.0 with AAC audio (I know, yours are L3.1, I couldn't find any). Re-muxed with MKVmerge GUI (disabled Header Removal) and they all played perfectly on first try. I then tried enabling the options I mentioned under (3) in my last post, and they still played perfectly. So at least those options shouldn't break compatibility, making them worth a try.

I am afraid I'll need samples of your sources (or sources with the same problem) in order to reproduce this on my side. If you still have the determination to keep trying, I AM interested, because I think there may be a discovery here for Panny MKV users. But I also understand if you've had enough.

Just let me know.

Thanks Branden, I have tried different versions of MKVMerge and it is still the same. Tried the new updated version yesterday hoping the update may have change it. I have tried the added option --aac-is-sbr and this did not change anything. I have tried muxing just the video track on it's own but the video freezes after about 3 seconds like before although plays fine when demuxed and remuxed. So the issue is definately caused by the video track that is for sure. I have tried the options you have posted in (3) to try, and nothing changes there. I definately know that the problem is not in a specific profile as it happens in L4.0 as well as L3.1 as you will see from the screenshots attached is L4.0. I could get the two files to read the same in MKVInfo (see attached) and one would play but the other wouldn't. The only difference I can see from both dumps is the structure order. This now confirms that MKVInfo will not help in finding out why one video would play and another wouldn't.

I was given a burnt DVD from a friend. The contained movies were in AVI containers. When I played them on the 210, the video was great but the audio was dubbed over in Russian. I loaded the DVD on my computer, played in VLC, and I was able to select Audio Track 2 which was english.

I could not find a way to select Audio Track 2 on the 210. Anyone know of a way?

Frustrated, I loaded the video file in a program called Virtual Dub Mod and disabled Audio Track 1. I then saved the file and reloaded into VLC to confirm that only english audio was active.

As I didn't have any spare DVD's around the house (I try to avoid the clutter that burning creates), I added the file to my media server (MEZZMO) and tried to play it via DLNA on both my Panasonic GT30 and the 210. Neither device could read the file. Normally MEZZMO would transcode on the fly if media was not compatible with VIERA, but in this case MEZZMO assumed that VIERA could play the file so it did not transcode (annoying). So to confirm the issue I transcoded the file manually to h.264/mp4 (i think) and it then played fine via DLNA on the TV and the 210.

However, transcoding takes a while (manually) and brings potential quality loss (true??) so this seemed like a poor solution.

So I copied my english-only AVI file to a SD Card and tried to play in the 210 and my Panasonic GT30. Neither would read the file. Same problem as with the DLNA.

Next I tried copying the english-only AVI file to a USB stick, and playing on the 210. PRESTO it worked.

And that is my story. Thanks for listening!

@skyak: If the original DVD played alright (must be an international 210 to play AVI) I suggest you play that again, then press Display on the remote. That should bring up a menu where you can change various settings, including which audio track to play.