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Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 139

post #4141 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhermit View Post
Great thread, hoping some of you experts can give me some advice!

I just got the S30 and have been pretty happy with one exception: the tv seems to pixelate when displaying scenes with lots of motion. While it is noticeable during some action sequences, the most profound example I've come across was a nature show - specifically lions running around on a grassy plain. The wind was blowing the grass and of course the lions were running. Ie, virtually every pixel was changing rapidly and the picture looked terrible!

Is this pixelation improved on the ST30? Intuitively, I would think so given the ST30 has 1080 lines of motion picture resolution vs the ST30's 900. Another website, however, noted that the "motion score" in their review was actually much better for the S30.

Any insight is welcome. Is pixelation just something one lives with in a sub $1000 TV or should I return this lemon and get the ST30?

Thanks!

I'm pretty much a newbie too, but I think the experts are going to want to know if you're talking about a broadcast or cable show, or something from, say, as ideal as a Blu Ray video.
post #4142 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhermit View Post
Any insight is welcome. Is pixelation just something one lives with in a sub $1000 TV or should I return this lemon and get the ST30?
Do you notice any problems while watching a blu-ray? You can't really judge by cable/satellite since those sources introduce all kinds of artifacts.

Regardless, the ST30 should be superior to the S30 in every category.
post #4143 of 8439
Thanks for the quick replies.

This was a cable broadcast. Unfortunately, I don't own a blu-ray player so I can't try that immediately. Good to know though. I did not realize that could be contributing to the problem.

After reading more of what has been said about the ST30, I feel like I should return my S30 for it. If only appease my OCPD.
post #4144 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
Well I bit the bullet and picked up an 50st30 I'm really excited to get it going. I finally found d nice's panel prep it took me awhile. I kept finding posts that TALKED about it, not the actual post. Annoying.

Just to make sure I got the right file it's varying intensities of color, it's http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloa...kIn_Images.zip right?

Also since I haven't been able to find an answer. What exactly does this improve? Black level, brightness, color accuracy? What exactly does it improve and does it NOT improve? I know it's a requirement to get the most out of certain "picture settings" people have posted. But just in and of itself, does it actually improve certain aspects of the image coming from the TV?
It doesn't improve anything, supposedly it gets your TV through the time period when it is most vulnerable to IR or it prepares your TV for D-Nice's settings. I have been playing games and using mine as a computer monitor from the moment it was taken out of the box with no problems. I see no point in wasting electricity having slides running on my TV when I could just be watching it.
post #4145 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoltz View Post
DC Universe Online for PS3. Haven't tried an Xbox game yet. More testing is necessary because I'm not sure if the game, the PS3, or the TV is being dumb. So far I haven't noticed it on the XMB or on a blu-ray, which would imply that it's the game's fault, but it could be that it's happened on all content and I just haven't been paying attention.
I've now seen it on the XMB. I think the TV simply get's confused in Size 2. The problem isn't the aspect ratio, it's that the TV doesn't center the picture. So when a black bar is created on the left, it's because it shifts the entire picture to the right a little bit. And vice versa when a black bar is created on the right. Scrolling through the formatting re-centers it.

EDIT: Just realized it does this because of the pixel orbiter. Turn it off and everything is perfect. Makes sense since the pixel orbiter moves from side to side.
post #4146 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoltz View Post
FYI, you aren't alone in this with the ST30. I've noticed it on some video games in addition to cable TV within the last few days. Haven't seen it on a blu-ray yet, but we'll see. Scroll through the various formats and it should reset itself to fill the screen again. Not optimal, but it should work. Or use Size 1, of course. I'm used to watching with a little overscan since my last plasma automatically overscanned...but it is a bit annoying.
Ahh! I think that you're seeing another manifestation of the problems that I've (and others have) had with the Size 2 setting. When the black border appears on the left side (and it's always on the left), sometimes flipping between Size 2 and Size 1 will set the screen geometry properly. It may be an "annoyance" but it should not even be an issue on a 2011 vintage top rated Plasma set. Have you gotten a chance to run King Arthur yet? I tested several standard and Blu-ray DVDS in advance of the technician coming with a new A-board on Tuesday just so I could demonstrate the issues to him. With SDVDs or BR-DVDs shot at 1.78:1, there is no problem. The image fills the entire screen as a native 16X9 picture should. There are of course none of the illuminated pixel lines at the edges either. With a 1.85:1 picture there are very narrow black bars top and bottom as there should be but no pixel lines. As soon as I play any kind of DVD shot at 2.35 or 2.41:1, thar she blows! The illuminated lines show up on one side edge and the adjacent top or bottom edge. This is now pretty much a constant and only Size 1 with its overscan resolves it. The lines still appear on the Sony player's Home screen when overscan is not used. I'm hoping that the A-board resolves this but if not I'll wait for the tech to report back to Panasonic and we'll go from there.
post #4147 of 8439
It's the pixel orbiter.
post #4148 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoltz View Post

It's the pixel orbiter.

I've shut that down with no impact on my problems and even if that was the main cause, turning off the primary image retention avoidance tool to solve a problem that it creates results in a classic "between a rock and a hard place" dilemma.
post #4149 of 8439
Can't do much about it unless you want the image to be stretched to full the screen. In fact, I just read a post here that says that pixel orbiter used to be automatically disabled when using Size 2. So having the ability to use pixel orbiter while using Size 2 is an added feature that people didn't used to have. Pixel orbiter off = fixed screen with no overscan. Pixel orbiter on = screen moves around randomly without overscan, thus creating minor black bars. Using Size 1 hides everything of course, which is another option we have.

I know you mentioned you saw colorful lines, which is a separate issue. The above info is just to address the slight black bars.
post #4150 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

...Also since I haven't been able to find an answer. What exactly does this improve? Black level, brightness, color accuracy? What exactly does it improve and does it NOT improve? I know it's a requirement to get the most out of certain "picture settings" people have posted. But just in and of itself, does it actually improve certain aspects of the image coming from the TV?

The D-Nice slides are a lot like religion. There's no proof that they help with anything but a lot of people believe in them. I'm an atheist. Haha. Just enjoy the TV and not worry about it.
post #4151 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

I've shut that down with no impact on my problems and even if that was the main cause, turning off the primary image retention avoidance tool to solve a problem that it creates results in a classic "between a rock and a hard place" dilemma.

My parents had a similar issue with their G25 set - happened on HDsize 2 with their cable box - a green line appeared on the side of the screen. This disappeared when we changed from HDMI to component cables from the cable box. It was an issue with the cable box itself; as it was fixed by a firmware update from Motorola for HDMI issues.

Perhaps you can try your blu-ray with component cables and see if that solves the issue? Then you can at least narrow it down to a HDMI issue?
post #4152 of 8439
Hey guys, so I am in a bit of a dilemma.

About 2 weeks ago I bought the Costco model TC-P60S34, basically a 60" S30. I like the TV, but I am not completely sold on it. It looks great. The 60" has decent black levels, good color, and is great for gaming and general HD use. But its not incredible.

My issue here is some motion artifact/ pixelation that I am getting. It is most evident to me in the XBOX 360 menu.First off its a almost brand new, elite HDMI connected 360, set at 1080P. In the main menu (not in a game or movie), when changing from items within the menu, there is some severe pixelation on the entire screen. As soon as it stops moving, it goes away. Move to the next item, again, I see it.

I also see it while in game on COD: Black Ops. I can see it while panning around in game, or just quick movements. The whole screen gets pixelated. As soon as I stop moving, it goes away. Its not just one area of the panel, its the whole thing. In a weird way, it almost looks like a bunch of the pixels get larger than they are (maybe a few pixels at a time in a cluster), on fast movement, then go away when still. Its hard to explain, but now I have seen it and its very hard to un-see.

So, ultimately, I am at a crossroads. I like the TV, the size, color, HD quality, but I could easily take it back and get a 55" ST30 for only a few hundred more. I don't care for 3D, but if its better at motion/ gaming and gets rid of the pixelation then I might be returning the 60" soon. Anyone experience anything like this on their ST30? Im sure everyone will say to get the ST, but it will be a pain in the ass to take back a 60" set haha
post #4153 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrmedic707 View Post

Hey guys, so I am in a bit of a dilemma.

About 2 weeks ago I bought the Costco model TC-P60S34, basically a 60" S30. I like the TV, but I am not completely sold on it. It looks great. The 60" has decent black levels, good color, and is great for gaming and general HD use. But its not incredible.

My issue here is some motion artifact/ pixelation that I am getting. It is most evident to me in the XBOX 360 menu.First off its a almost brand new, elite HDMI connected 360, set at 1080P. In the main menu (not in a game or movie), when changing from items within the menu, there is some severe pixelation on the entire screen. As soon as it stops moving, it goes away. Move to the next item, again, I see it.

I also see it while in game on COD: Black Ops. I can see it while panning around in game, or just quick movements. The whole screen gets pixelated. As soon as I stop moving, it goes away. Its not just one area of the panel, its the whole thing. In a weird way, it almost looks like a bunch of the pixels get larger than they are (maybe a few pixels at a time in a cluster), on fast movement, then go away when still. Its hard to explain, but now I have seen it and its very hard to un-see.

So, ultimately, I am at a crossroads. I like the TV, the size, color, HD quality, but I could easily take it back and get a 55" ST30 for only a few hundred more. I don't care for 3D, but if its better at motion/ gaming and gets rid of the pixelation then I might be returning the 60" soon. Anyone experience anything like this on their ST30? Im sure everyone will say to get the ST, but it will be a pain in the ass to take back a 60" set haha

i would recommend ST30, it is far better with custom picture setting, you get better remote, wifi usb stick and swivel (i am not sure 55 or 60 will swivel),
get a good BD player for 55 to 60 inch screen better ND player upscales DVD far better and difference will be seen in larger screen.
post #4154 of 8439
Guys,

About the 3D Options....

I quite don´t understand how it works...

A friend gave me a 3D sample on a USB Stick that shows the same image twice on the screen. I think this is called "Side by Side".

How can i watch this on 3D?
--> On the remote control, i pressed the 3D button but i see no difference.
BTW: Im running this on a Playstation 3

Thanks in advanced!
post #4155 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_SC View Post

The D-Nice slides are a lot like religion. There's no proof that they help with anything but a lot of people believe in them. I'm an atheist. Haha. Just enjoy the TV and not worry about it.

I see. Thanks for your input too Sunkist, I couldn't quote both of you. Ok let's say I don't use the d-nice panel prep. Is there any other things I should do during break in? Like not turn up brightness and contrast too high, don't run any widescreen content (atleast not for too long) or just go to town? I appreciate the input.

First thing I'm doing is setting up my internet and downloading the patch, and hopefully I don't have any FBr on this set.
post #4156 of 8439
The D-Nice break in slides is to get your tv to look like his (hers?) so his calibration settings from his TV will look as close to a calibrated set as possible without calibrating it.
post #4157 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_SC View Post

The D-Nice slides are a lot like religion. There's no proof that they help with anything but a lot of people believe in them. I'm an atheist. Haha. Just enjoy the TV and not worry about it.

That's just an uninformed comment.
post #4158 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

I see. Thanks for your input too Sunkist, I couldn't quote both of you. Ok let's say I don't use the d-nice panel prep. Is there any other things I should do during break in? Like not turn up brightness and contrast too high, don't run any widescreen content (atleast not for too long) or just go to town? I appreciate the input.

If you want to do the D-Nice panel prep and use the reference settings, search "2011 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread" on Google. You will find the relevant thread, and all questions are answered there. There is no "break-in" needed beyond running the slides pursuant to the recommended procedure.

Many people have used the D-Nice procedure and are quite happy with the results. It can save an expensive calibration if you're satisfied with the D-Nice results. It doesn't take that much effort to do it, and if you don't like the results, you can tweak them further.

OTOH, it's not a requirement. It's your TV, and you can do what you want. Personally, after reading quite a few threads on the settings, and making a judgment about the intelligence and knowledge of D-Nice and others you have worked with the settings, as compared to people who say the settings are like religion, etc. , I decided to try D-Nice's settings since he and certain others seemed to actually know what they are talking about. I am very happy with the results.

But again, YMMV, and the best thing to do is make your own judgment with your own eyes.
post #4159 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickItUpANotch View Post

So I just had my first "scare" with my 65ST30. Every channel (and the viera tools) had a large, thick black vertical line running through it.

I checked all the connections and they were firm, and I took out the HDMI to the tv and the line was still there.

Go figure though... now the line is gone though seemingly out of thin air.

This was very disconcerting, however. So far, this tv has been phenomenal.

I had the very same vertical band in the very same location with my 65ST30, which I received 7/27, with the additional oddity that the band sometimes was a rainbow rather than black. This happened right out of the box (but after the delivery man had left, of course--he checked only for physical damage--ICAT was the service). I tried different sources--OTA, Tivo, DVD, USB photos, Panasonic onscreen menus--turned the set off and on, let it "rest" for a while, etc. The band did not go away. The technician who came out showed me a "burned" part and took the set to the service center. This seems to have been a lucky break in a way, since after replacing the original defective part the shop has been waiting for a new panel, which I assume, or hope, will forestall the FBr problem (which I haven't had the opportunity to witness). It's good to hear that KickItUpANotch's ST30 got better but it might be a good idea to call Panasonic now about the anomaly in case it returns past warranty.

I'd also like to ask tfolz whether the FBr patch eventually will be downloadable for those who need it or whether it will only be technician-installed.
post #4160 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dove View Post

I'd also like to ask tfolz whether the FBr patch eventually will be downloadable for those who need it or whether it will only be technician-installed.

It's only technician-installed. The nature of the update is such that it is not something that is user downloadable.
post #4161 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by JinSaiYa View Post

Guys,

About the 3D Options....

I quite don´t understand how it works...

A friend gave me a 3D sample on a USB Stick that shows the same image twice on the screen. I think this is called "Side by Side".

How can i watch this on 3D?
--> On the remote control, i pressed the 3D button but i see no difference.
BTW: Im running this on a Playstation 3

Thanks in advanced!

Push the 3d button, then when the box to choose 3d / 2d is up in the left top corner of the screen push the red button and enter side by side >> 3d manually.
post #4162 of 8439
Took a break from slides to watch a couple things. WOW what a great picture With no adjustments. This is my 3rd plasma and I believe in the slides. Has nothing to do with IR tho.
post #4163 of 8439
I'm uninformed so I missed the post that took 2 st30's with D-nice settings and compared the "with slides" and "without" picture quality. Anyone have a link? Haha.

But I did see an image of D-nice burnt on a piece of toast this morning.
post #4164 of 8439
after the A board install i see lot of screen door effect, it is obvious on all inputs. is there a solution for this, i brought sharpness down to almost zero but still see a grainy screen.
post #4165 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_SC View Post

I'm uninformed so I missed the post that took 2 st30's with D-nice settings and compared the "with slides" and "without" picture quality. Anyone have a link? Haha.

But I did see an image of D-nice burnt on a piece of toast this morning.

Oh, I see. So nobody -- including professionals working in the audio/video field -- can offer advice regarding how to set up any piece of audio or video equipment to obtain the best picture, sound, etc., without first buying several pieces of the equipment (whether it be a TV, a BD player, a receiver, etc.) , and conducting scientific tests with the recommended settings and alternative settings to prove if the recommended setting are actually better. And of course, just saying they are better is not good enough. The findings should be verified by others and published in a peer-reviewed journal, right?

This a forum for audio/video consumers and enthusiasts who are trying to help one another. The notion that procedures and settings should not be recommended or followed unless there is the type of proof you demand predicated on baseline comparison using multiple pieces of equipment is just stupid.
post #4166 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

And of course, just saying they are better is not good enough. The findings should be verified by others and published in a peer-reviewed journal, right?

Right. It definitely should be verified. D-nice is a professional calibrator and his business relies on people thinking that what he does cannot be done by simply plugging numbers in. He may or may not be right and I don't care as I'd never pay for a pro calibration.

People around here treat his work as something that's mythical in it's results. I just happen to disagree. I tried his settings and like most people ended up tweaking them to my own liking. Lots of others have posted settings that I've liked too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

This a forum for audio/video consumers and enthusiasts who are trying to help one another. The notion that procedures and settings should not be recommended or followed unless there is the type of proof you demand predicated on baseline comparison using multiple pieces of equipment is just stupid.

And I'm just trying to help out newbies who read that without running 100 hours of slides they are somehow missing out on something. Just giving my opinion. And just like religion I'm called stupid for NOT believing in something that has zero proof that it works other than some "guru" who you suggest we just blindly follow.

Quote:


Follow the gourd! No, follow the shoe!
post #4167 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_SC View Post

And just like religion I'm called stupid for NOT believing in something that has zero proof that it works other than some "guru" who you suggest we just blindly follow.

There's no need to bring religion into it. You're just insulting other people without cause and/or making an intentionally inflammatory comment. I'm done with you.
post #4168 of 8439
I think you can find much professional advice in terms of what to do in the first 100 hours including no black bars or doing nothing. Running the slides just accelerates the break in. I ran slides on my first plasma 5 years ago I don't think I am following any one person. I just want stability before I tweak.
post #4169 of 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

There's no need to bring religion into it. You're just insulting other people without cause and/or making an intentionally inflammatory comment. I'm done with you.

I was making a point. You're calling people stupid.

Back on topic... The Viera app is now native for iPad. Woot!


Attachment 221866
LL
post #4170 of 8439
rich_sc please go away

anyway, this is my first plasma. i ran hdnice slides and after a few hundred hours watching this tv with his settings it seems to look better and better as time goes by. at first after running the slides and using his settings, i wasnt too happy with the picture. colors didnt pop and were a little bland. also the picture was a bit too dim for my liking and it felt like i was watching "through a haze" as some people put it. but now the picture is very very good.
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