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The Official RS-MaxxMudd V.2 Mix - Page 11

post #301 of 652
ScottyRoo, I just went through exactly what you're looking at, thought still in progress.

I had a wall that was poorly painted previously where one could see the roller lines, and the paint was put on too thick. Two years ago painter was told to do "two coats", his definition was two rolls one after another with no drying and a very thick nap (even I as an amateur know much better). While I had used it as a screen for several months, I could see the lines in white areas of the movie pretty badly.

So this weekend, after mulling around with trying to get a large piece of Sintra so I didn't have to mess with sanding the wall back smooth, I finally broke down and did it.

Took me about 5 hours (I sanded the WHOLE wall, not just where the screen is projected), and made probably at least 10 sanding passes (using 80, 120, and 220 sanding screens), but arrived at a wall that was "baby butt" smooth that I was very happy with. Along the way I patched a few nicks, screwed in a few drywall screws that were slightly popping out, as well as a few nails they had, and patched those, etc. But in the end am very satisfied.

After spraying the prime coats, it looks awesome (haven't sprayed any MM on it yet, but plan to tonight or tomorrow night).

In my case I was looking at around a 140" screen (arrived at 139" once I moved the projector a bit closer than originally had it placed), so 10'x6' Sintra would have been too difficult/expensive to obtain.

But in the end, I'm VERY satisified with the results thus far. While the screen isn't perfectly flat in all areas, its about as close as you could ever get with drywall, and at least in the portion of the house, the drywallers when building did a great job with the joints (better than in the rest of the house).

So if you either have good drywall, or good drywalling skills (at worse one could screw 1/4" drywall over the existing for the wall and repatch - I've done this in another home over an old badly messed up sheetrock wall and been very satisifed) - I'd consider this a very viable option.

Especially if you're looking for anything over 98" (ie: the largest size you can get with 4x8 substrate), going to the bare wall is a great option.

Being a total novice on this myself, as well as using the paint sprayer, I can recommend the approach. Much easier than I expected. BTW - the 5 hours I spent sanding the wall probably were overblown - I'm a bit of a perfectionist and tend to spend 2-3 times longer than necessary when doing things.

BTW - in your case if its a totally textured wall, from experience at another home, I'd probably first do a rough sanding to get as much of the texture off as possible followed by a skim coat of high quality (the type you mix yourself) mud, letting it dry fully (4-5 hours at least) before sanding again. While I'm no drywall expert, I've done enough work in my own homes and helping others to have a good grasp on what works (for me at least).

But of course I'll let the experts chime in.
post #302 of 652
"............but I dunna think I can make it work, Cap'n."

In truth, the 750e is not a good choice....at all. Even if it was mounted completely flush against the ceiling, it's Lens Offset would place the top of the image almost 12" down from the Wall/Ceiling juncture. But it cannot be mounted that way. A Ceiling Mount will add at least 5". Now your image is at 14" -15" down. So you decide to tilt the PJ (bad) and use the vertical Keystone feature (worse). because you are using such a big image, the effects of Key-stoning are further amplified (loss of lumens / edge distortion )

Then there is the height of the Screen itself and how it will place on the Screen wall. A 155" Screen in 16:10 (native for the 750e) is 82" high. You have 96" to work with Ceiling to Floor. Lets say you mount the PJ then tilt it so that the top edge of the screen is just 6" from the Ceiling. 96" - 6" = 90" Your now left with just 6" from the bottom of the Screen's image and the Floor. Do you want that? Probably not...and if so, you'd have to consider Black Velvet for carpeting.

I'd suggest a different PJ...and a re-think on what is reasonable as far as your Screen's size. If budget limitations are driving your PJ choice, we have some real issues to deal with. If not, placing a PJ with zero offset, or one with Lens Shift....just behind the "Bump" and with the lens just barely below the bottom edge will give your Screen's top edge a 12" drop from the Ceiling.

That leaves 84" to work with. If Movies are your primary interest, making a 2.35:1 Screen that is 60" x 141" (153" diagonal) will also afford you a 122" diagonal 16:9 (60" x 106") Having a PJ that has lens Shift and Zoom is your "Go To" solution here. I'm thinking a Epson 8350 at a 17' Throw, using RS-MMud-LL

You'll still have a respectable 24" distance from the Floor to the ceiling...a stupendous 2.35:1 12' + Wide Screen "Scope" image, and a crap load better image out if the 8350 @ 1080p Lastly, from your diagram, it looks possible to make the PJ a "Through the Wall -on a Shelf" installation.

So now....if there are other factors not listed in your post that must be considered or come into play, relate 'em and lets make something happen.

Just review the logistics of what you have in mind and consider the ramifications of making a wrongful choice and finding out such later. You /we don't want to go there.

BTW, Sintra can only provide a 104" diagonal Screen size in 16:9 and 130" diagonal in 2.35:1 if your Screen's height is to remain "constant".

Skimming and sanding a rough textured wall to a point where it's a really good, smooth surface to project upon is not a "Noob" project. Better to stretch out some Black Out Cloth onto a Frame and then paint.
post #303 of 652
"...more like one in a million..."

"So you're telling me I have a chance!"

First let me just say that ignorance is in some ways, bliss. With me being a noob I'm sure I probably wouldn't mind a few of the drawbacks of the 750e. It sounds like it has generally favorable reviews even among some videophiles. The real key point here is the "short throw" issue which I'll touch on below. You make some great points that I would have never thought of or found out about even with research. Spot on! Thanks for that! I found a pic I took on my iPhone of the house we are going to buy. The screen wall is to the right:


Budget is not an issue here. Here's the issue with mounting a PJ (namely, the Epson 8350) below the "bump"... the room will still serve as a general multipurpose "family room". The 8350 would have to have a 16' throw to get 120"... that places it near the back of the room and people's heads and standing up would make for a good shadow puppet party. Also, the room is 20' length-wise so that means there would be an awkward 24" ceiling mount right in the middle of a billiards/foosball area behind the couch. I'm also a pretty tall guy (6'5") - the top of my hair would be skimming or hitting a projector like the 8350 with zero offset. Trust me... I would LOVE to have a PJ like the 8350. I've read the reviews and have friends with it and they love it. If there were a PJ that could project a 120" screen in 16:10 with a lens shift that would allow me to have the lens peaking out directly below the bump like you said (prob a 10' throw) I'd be interested but I can't find anything. There just doesn't seem to be anything out there for gaming or home theater that can do short throw like the 750e. It has some good press and awards... but by no means is it in the same realm as the 8350. Please enlighten if I'm wrong!

So lets figure this out. My primary use will be pretty much EVERYTHING. Gaming, movies, TV, etc. Keeping in mind my 9'-10' viewing distance, the floor to ceiling height, and the offset limitations you brought up, I'm thinking a 120" viewing screen would be more ideal than the 158" an 8 foot throw would give it - don't you? At a 6'1" throw I can achieve a 120" diagnol that without tilting the PJ, the image will be about 12" from the ceiling, and 20" from the floor. Get some nice dark carpet and get some darker paint because that sucker is going to be bright! Sounds ideal to me (sans 1080p )

What about the Elite Screens ER120WH1 Sable Fixed Frame (120" 16:9 AR) on Amazon? Budget aside, would I be better off with a screen like this or a DIY screen with MaxxMudd to get my 16:10 AR (if I go with the 750e)?
post #304 of 652
Well if Gaming is a factor, and you can see wisdom in going with some rinky dinky, ittsy bittsy,teeny weeny 10' diagonal screen, DIY will be more in league with what you really want. You need 16:10 ...and exact screen placement. Get the PJ up, shoot a image....and mark the outline of the image.

Allow 1" extra height and width ( 1/2" on each side ) and paint to those dimensions. Trim to the exact screen size "centered" within the paint.

You'll have exactly what you need and where you want it.....no "oops" or such.

And unless Elite can provide you with "any size and format "1.4 Gain High Contrast Fixed Screen" you need"....and do it for under 175.00 ...(...which won't happen...) .......who ya gonna call?

BTW.....that much shorter throw will be kickin'n for Gaming

Edit:
Hey!!! For Goodness Sake! You need Silver Fire 4.0! Man...ya got the Lumens....use 'em! And then revel in the ability to have the Lights up further than you could otherwise hope to. And watch 4.0 send the 750e's 3000:1 Blacks so far into the Basement, you'll need a Trackhoe to dig a hole deep enough to get 'em back! We are talkin' "Interstellar" here.

As I said, ain't no Mfg Screen in existence gonna give ya what you can get from DIY'in in the under $200.00 range.
post #305 of 652
Thanks for the pointers! 10' is teeny tiny? I thought we wanted to go a titch smaller to get away from the ceiling and floor... or yer yankin my leg

So painting sounds like the route to take. Three questions for ya, MM-

What MaxxMudd would you recommend for my setup?

Is there any method to my madness?

Am I crazy for going with the 750e for my short throw needs?
post #306 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

BTW.....that much shorter throw will be kickin'n for Gaming

And when you say "kickin'n for Gaming" do you mean that in a good way? Thanks again for you help!
post #307 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post

Thanks for the pointers! 10' is teeny tiny? I thought we wanted to go a titch smaller to get away from the ceiling and floor... or yer yankin my leg

If I tugged any harder, you'd be a'walkin' with a limp! After thinking 150"+, most would agree 120" is a lot smaller. But Teeny Weenie?

Quote:


So painting sounds like the route to take. Three questions for ya, MM-

What MaxxMudd would you recommend for my setup?

I don't. As I said, you need Silver Fire 4.0 The purpose of the room is more varied than a Dark Room Theater. Gaming alone will demand that there be a bit of lighting present, if only because of the Games that require standing and moving about (Wii & Kinect)

Quote:


Is there any method to my madness?

Am I crazy for going with the 750e for my short throw needs?

No...your insanity is perfectly suited to the task at hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post

And when you say "kickin'n for Gaming" do you mean that in a good way? Thanks again for you help!

Awwww...C'mon. When did you ever hear "Kickin'" used as with meaning you'd need to be kicked if you did something?

The Short Throw and high angle of the projected beam will allow you to stand within 5' of a 120" Screen for a truly immersive gaming experience.

Now bend over and take your medicine.
post #308 of 652
Hahaha - you're awesome! The forums of the world need more folks like you!

And thanks for validating my insanity... I'll keep you posted and document the project at hand! We are closing on the home tomorrow.

HRaynor - Sounds like I'm going down your road... thanks for your tips as well!
post #309 of 652
Applying the final coat of ebony flat as my screen border tonight (and am VERY glad I made my "paint tent" go all the way to the ceiling and cover the entire ceiling with this paint!).

If that dries quick enough and I'm not too tired or want to just watch a movie on the primed screen, I'll spray one or two coats of MaxMudd LL. Should have everything done by tomorrow if things work out.

Then time to finally get the room cleaned up and the speakers back in over the weekend. :-)

Ended up mistakenly nickign the screen (after priming was finished) the other night and having to patch, sand, and apply 3 more coats of primer (can't tell it now after the 3rd). So that caused another day delay, but the end is near.

I only have an hour here or there in the evenings some days, so that's why its taking me close to a week. :-)

Will post pictures when done.
post #310 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by hraynor View Post


Will post pictures when done.

Is it Soup yet?
post #311 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


Is it Soup yet?

Will be by this afternoon. Got the border totally done and my dad unexpectedly came last night to see the kids, so had to cleanup the room and we watched a couple of movies on the primed screen. So set me back a bit.

But just taped around the screen about 20 minutes ago, and am about to head up and rebuild the rest of my paint tent. Then mixing the colorants and spraying. Hopefully should be done by late this afternoon.


Here's a few pictures of my progress so far. Ones with the image are projected onto the primed only surface. Will post comparison pics once I get the MM-LL on the screen.


Attachment 239991




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Attachment 239997



Attachment 239998



Attachment 239999
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #312 of 652
Spraying in progress.
post #313 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by hraynor View Post

Spraying in progress.

I'm all a'twitter.

1-1/2 hours later......wassup?
post #314 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


I'm all a'twitter.

1-1/2 hours later......wassup?

almost done. 2 dusters, 3 normal coats up. 2 dusters to go.

Looks great! Though it did expose a few minor flaws (when peering at screen with a flashlight and lights out) that I could not see before. Very minor though and not worth fixing. IMHO (and this is from the perfectionist). :-)

Btw - should I do a light sand after the final dusters??
post #315 of 652
Spraying all done!! cleaning up while last coat dries. Hope to post pics in an hour or two.
post #316 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by hraynor View Post

Spraying all done!! cleaning up while last coat dries. Hope to post pics in an hour or two.

Done. In a word ASTOUNDING!!

We watched Alice In Wonderland 3d last night on the primed wall. Looked ok, was a bit dim even at high 3D mode (cinema 3d though). Put it in to test and at Medium 3D mode its MUCH brighter than last night.

Kids want to watch Rio 3D sp will put that in. will post pics later tonight or tomorrow.

But here's a quick shot from the iPad probably not the best picture).



Attachment 240057
LL
post #317 of 652
Looks plenty bright.

Try using a small amount of the Zoom on the Camera from a bit further back. That will serve to attenuate the light coming past the Lens just enough to get rid of the wash-out caused by the generous amount of gain the screen produces.
post #318 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Looks plenty bright.

Try using a small amount of the Zoom on the Camera from a bit further back. That will serve to attenuate the light coming past the Lens just enough to get rid of the wash-out caused by the generous amount of gain the screen produces.

I was using my iPad for that pic, just holding it up so not that still. Was just a quick pic since was watching movie with kids. Will use the better camera (with zoom) on the tripod tommorrow.

BTW Rio is awesome in 3d now. So much more so than before. Very smooth and crisp image, plenty bright.

Im really liking this. After this and kids in bed will try Dark Knight. Been using it to test so will be able to easily notice the difference.

Thanks very much for all your help!!!
post #319 of 652
Sawrite..........N-joy
post #320 of 652
Hi Mississippi Man

I have really enjoyed reading your postings and comments - very insightful and informative - and also very entertaining.

I saw where you recommended - RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1 for someone with a Mits HC3800on another thread. I used screen goo for my 120" screen / dedicated room about 6 years ago now. Sure - I would love one of those SI BD screens (and 4K projector too) - but I am not willing to pay that much. That made me look for upgrade options which lead me here.

1) Will I see a significant upgrade in doing this over my screen goo? I am assuming and hoping yes.

2) With SG I get reflective glare onto the walls. Will the RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1
improve the glare?


No windows - so fully light control in the room. My walls are Ralph Lauren Claret (dark burgundy). My tray ceiling, trim and doors are a muted metallic gold (or as I joked - pimp my theatre) but the colors make it look like a classic theatre. I have rope lighting in molding in the bottom of the tray (facing upward) to light up the tray ceiling. Regardless - I do tend to turn off all the lights to get the most of the projector and screen. That's why the BD looked so appealing in cutting out glare - but ding ding ding ding $$$$$.

Like most - I am looking for the biggest bang for the buck - and seeing what I can do to potentially get a better better picture and less glare.

3) I am assuming this is still mix master Mississippi Man's best mix - ?

RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1
(for lower lumen pj's and controlled light home theaters)

20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**
---------------------------------
this is the only mix of the rs-maxxmudd family that can be rolled


I have the itch to want to try this for the fun of it - but also curious to see if anyone else has done the screen goo to RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1 change.
I will be the only one who notices a difference. My wife did not notice the 480 to 1080p projector upgrade - where I used to be able to see the pixels from 15 feet away.

Mostly looking to manage my expectations on results for the potential upgrade ... to give me that sufficient nudge to just do it.
post #321 of 652
Hello my HTH!

Image image quality and brightness will certainly improve, with the silver and pearl additives adding considerable punch to the image. And be sure assured that many people have gone down the road that you are contemplating, switching from a goo screen to an advanced do it yourself formula.

However, like the GOO, the RS-MM does not have a highly directional gain properties. Not having such is usually considered to be an advantage, because of the increased viewing cone. But 4 those whose walls and ceilings are in close proximity to the screen, a more directional type of gain can indeed be to an advantage.

It appears that the colors of your room surfaces don't seem to be that bad of a choice. So he did they are very close to the screen, or you just don't like to see any type of reflected light.

I whould not really suggest the "LL" version, as your circumstances did not seem to indicate such as being necessary. The real issue with using a high gain screen is that most all such screens usually produce artifacts and sparklies. While this sort of thing can be mitigated by a careful choice of exactly how much reflective material to add to a paint, a great deal simply depends upon how badly you need the directional effect.

And, should you decide you do in fact need such, rolling such a great mix is not going to be a consideration. You will have to spray.

So a bit of careful consideration and thought is in order at this conjecture. We have the way for you to get the game and directionality you need, but you will need to accept the circumstances and consequences of such a decision. At least you can take comfort inn the knowledge that any such decision you make will still provide you the advantages of the much more expensive manufactured screen, but at a rediculously lessor cost.
post #322 of 652
Now I see your recommendation on the un-do goo thread "Undo Goo Part 2 Or Parting is Sweet Sorrow". better than goo.

So if don't recommend the LL - which do you recommend for the HC3800 with full light control? I do have an old wagner power painter sprayer - if it still works.

I have 2 seating rows - most are relatively facing straight on to the screen - and only the front left facing is about 40 degrees off center (gain concern) - but chair does face towards center.

While writing this - I also just stumbled on this - looking on youtube ... and followed it here ... http://screenpainthd.com/ See the videos on this site comparing diff paints.

The last video - I am assuming the lady is showing a painted box vs. a screen ???? A good example on how to show a change.

The first video with HD paint looks interesting - and in goo price range. (still more than the DIY we are talking about here).

Being visual (as most of on here are) I like the video demos. I noticed the first video where the room looks dark like you see on the BD videos. No reflective light. I really like that.

It say they will accept other paint video examples too on their site. Perhaps a video example is in order for the ??? Maybe they will only accept commercial products though. Thought it was interesting though and worth sharing. Hope you don't mind.

"If you've got a video that you are interested in sharing send me an email chase@screenpainthd.com. We're looking for good high quality examples and to be honest as you can see from the videos above... I don't care which product/brand you used. As long as people get an idea of how better an idea paint is compared to an actual projector screen"
post #323 of 652
This one is MaxMudd - but not in action - just a room show - bummer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jkBDm_pS8c
post #324 of 652
Thread Starter 
myHTheaven;

to remove some of your current reflective glare with the goo SG... you'll need to go a little bit deeper shade than RSM LL.

obviously, silver fire is the way to go... but if you want to keep it simple... than i'd recommend going with a modified RSM Retro... partly because retro has so much gain.

go with retro with this one exception...
+ 4oz of the 1850 UPW.

you'll still be advised to spray this mix.
post #325 of 652
Ok - thank you - I will go check that out next. I may PM you with some questions.

I logged back in to note - that the HD paint site noted above - I noticed same guy chase sagum posted the video - and most blogs - and there is not much on reviews on amazon where its is sold too. http://screenpainthd.com/ The site is pretty neat though.
post #326 of 652
Why does the Distilled Tap Water have double stars (**) next to it? What does that mean? Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

This thread will serve as the official RS-MaxxMudd V.2.1 Mix... it owes is ancestory to MMudd and these MaxxMudd threads before it.

the original RS-MaxxMudd thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ht=rs+maxxmudd
the current RS-MaxxMudd V1 thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...axxmudd+thread


RS-MaxxMudd v.2.1 (updated 11-11-2011)


RS-MaxxMudd Retro v.2.1(darkest and highest gain of the rs-maxxmudd mixes, note the amount of SILVER in the mix)

20 oz Liquitex Basics Silver
10 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz Minwax PolyAcrylic Satin Finish
16 oz distilled/tap water**

----------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd v.2.1
(for low to moderate ambient light)

16 oz Liquitex Basics Silver
16 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
16 oz. distilled/tap water**

----------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1
(for lower lumen pj's and controlled light home theaters)

20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**
---------------------------------
this is the only mix of the rs-maxxmudd family that can be rolled
post #327 of 652
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelddd View Post

Why does the Distilled Tap Water have double stars (**) next to it? What does that mean? Thank you.

distilled 1st, bottled water next, tap last resort...
post #328 of 652
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myHTheaven View Post

I may PM you with some questions.

please do before you start. i have one other suggestion/modification that will help you reduce that reflectivity off your walls.
post #329 of 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

distilled 1st, bottled water next, tap last resort...

Understood. Thank you, pb_maxxx.
post #330 of 652
So I just finished painting my wall. I did a mm LL 1.2 with a 2oz LB silver addin and I rolled it. I prepped the wall as smooth as I could and bought a really nice low nap foam roller. This is a 125" screen and after 2 coats of white primer I thought the imaged looked really good. For the record I have an Epson 8350 with a 17' throw, shelf mount at same height as top of image. Ok so with the mix I put down 3 coats (half the mix) then sanded smooth or at least better than it was. Put another 2 coats and sanded again. Then final coat and it looks amazing!! yes I can see some slight sparkles on high white scenes with lamp in normal mode but it's nothing bad.

Compared to the primer. The image has far better color depth, far more contrast ratio and I still can get over how dark the blacks are for such a bright wall.

Thanks MM, I really appreciate the work you and everyone has done to make this mix possible. The project was fun and I saved a bundle from a bought screen.
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