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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 6  

post #151 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

And if they put a toaster in it, it will move into the toaster market. The question is, does Microsoft care about the toaster market?



How many of these customers are out there? Serious question. Blu-Ray has done well for itself but it is not DVD. There was no way, for example, that Apple could have ignored DVD. It wasn't an option because EVERYTHING moved onto that - movies, software delivery, etc. Streaming wasn't what it is now - not even close.

Apple doesn't need to offer Blu-Ray because there are viable ways to do everything that Blu-Ray can do without it.

Keep in mind when the next Xbox comes out, you'll probably be able to buy a Blu-Ray player for $50. It's not like in 2006 where Blu-Ray players were very expensive and the PS3 was by far the best way to get in on that game.



It cuts into margins. I am sure if Sony could go Linux only or whatever they would, since it is royalty free. They can't because the market demands Windows. Is the market demanding Blu-Ray? I just don't see it.

1. We are talking living room. Not kitchen.

2. The market is segmented, if you want to be in the market, you need to be in all viable segments. Blu-Ray and Streaming.

3. Apple is not the competition. It is a fringe player at best and they are not playing the same game as MS and Sony.

4. The low cost of Blu-Ray drives is an excellent reason to include it in the next xbox.

5. I am sure if there were a better alternative to Blu-Ray, MS would use it. I am not against it, but it does not exist at present. The market may not "Demand" it but it does "like it" and there is no reason not to have it if you are serious about selling an all around machine.
post #152 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

I am arguing that MS does not want to repeat the sales of this Generation in the next one. They want to sell MORE. I am not saying people won't by an xbox without Blu-Ray. I am saying they will sell MORE of them WITH Blu-Ray.

Toshiba does not worry about Sony making money on Blu-Ray movies. They still sell Blu-Ray players although they were 100% invested in HD DVD and that Sony still sells players.

A Business exists to sell products. You don't close yourself off to a major segment of your target market just to harm the other guy. People who buy Blu-Ray movies are people who might purchase a console. Ms would prefer those people buy their console.

This guy is making sense.

When I go to Best Buy, there are aisles and aisles of blu-ray movies. Are these going away in the next 3-4 years?

It sounds like you guys think that streaming will advance enough in the next several years that MS will base the next gen console on it. I disagree. Perhaps the tech will have advanced enough, but the general public won't be ready for that leap.
post #153 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

2. The market is segmented, if you want to be in the market, you need to be in all viable segments. Blu-Ray and Streaming.

Tell that to, umm... Microsoft.

I don't think the lack of BR has hurt them one bit. I also think Sony's competitive advantage has dwindled as prices have dropped. PS3 with BR was awesome when players were $500. Now that they are $75, it doesn't really matter.

And if anyone wants to watch HD movies on their machine, they can get them through video marketplace, where Microsoft takes the largest cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

3. Apple is not the competition. It is a fringe player at best and they are not playing the same game as MS and Sony.

They are playing the same game as other companies making computers, and it's hard not to buy a PC nowadays without Blu-Ray. Yet people don't care. I think that if the next Xbox came out without Blu-Ray, it'd be the same situation.
post #154 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

This guy is making sense.

When I go to Best Buy, there are aisles and aisles of blu-ray movies. Are these going away in the next 3-4 years?

It sounds like you guys think that streaming will advance enough in the next several years that MS will base the next gen console on it. I disagree. Perhaps the tech will have advanced enough, but the general public won't be ready for that leap.

no, I'm thinking that my gaming console does not need to be a DVD player (in this case a BD player).

IMO BD could be the 100% king of movie media, and MS would not miss out by not having it in their GAMING CONSOLE

I would buy a SA BD player, to watch BD movies

I don't like the idea of an "all around machine". I don't need a swiss army knife
post #155 of 7006
There is a better chance of the next Xbox having an HD-DVD drive than a BR drive (which is to say it is not going to happen for either).

You can list your reasons why it would be nice for YOU until you are blue in the face. Microsoft does not agree with you that they will sell more Xbox if they included a BR drive. And it is not just about the Xbox, it is about the whole PC-Xbox-Phone echo system.

The MS approach is to push for the connected device world. Where I can watch a movie on my living room TV, watch it from where I left off on Windows Phone and stream it on my work PC when I get there.

BR just does not fit into that scenario. It is not going to happen. PERIOD.

Sooner you abandon that dream, less disappointed you will be.
post #156 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

It sounds like you guys think that streaming will advance enough in the next several years that MS will base the next gen console on it. I disagree. Perhaps the tech will have advanced enough, but the general public won't be ready for that leap.

I have a FiOS 25/5 connection which is probably in this country's top 98 percentile in terms of connection speed. I'm not buying a console that has me download a 5GB+ title prior to being able to play it. I do appreciate the option, but think we're still a solid 10+ years away from having an infrastructure in place in this country to support it as the only option.

I think most of this country is in the same instant gratification category as I am - I buy a game, I want to pop it in and play it immediately. Whether they use BD as the medium or another form is up for debate, but I think it's going to be a while before physical media disappears entirely.
post #157 of 7006
I can't see Microsoft including a blu ray drive, given their behavior this generation. They're definitely focused on digital distribution. By 2015 blu-ray playback won't even be a selling feature, because by that point anyone will be able to go down to their local walmart and pick up one for $50. I don't even care about my consoles having dvd playback nowadays, hell I must have about 6 devices in my home capable of DVD playback. Blu-ray was much more of a talking point back when these systems launched, I suspect as we go further into the digital content realm that any talk of bluray playback in a future xbox will largely be met with indifference. By 2015, blu-ray will be a 9 year old technology, about the same age dvd was when Blu-ray came into the marketplace.

I'd sooner put money on MS, if they continue with physical game distribution, to create their own disc tech specifically for xbox 720, before putting in a BR drive. And I would also fully expect, that digital versions of all games will be available day and date with physical games. The best approach in terms of gaming content delivery is to appease both customers, those who want hard copies and those who just want their games stored on a hard drive.
post #158 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

I have a FiOS 25/5 connection which is probably in this country's top 98 percentile in terms of connection speed. I'm not buying a console that has me download a 5GB+ title prior to being able to play it..

If you have a PS3 you are already on that path. Many times the PS3 makes you download a firmware update before being able to use it. And while you will not be buying a console that has you download a 5GB+ title (which I honestly think you would with a 25/5 connection), there are many people who would.

Look at the popularity of of things that are media based.. From MP3's to Netflix to App stores. The world is already moving towards a model where content is delivered via the internet only. Disc based media is dying. Rather you accept that or not its truth and as with the switch from analog-to-digital it is something you will get used too.
post #159 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I can't see Microsoft including a blu ray drive, given their behavior this generation. They're definitely focused on digital distribution. By 2015 blu-ray playback won't even be a selling feature, because by that point anyone will be able to go down to their local walmart and pick up one for $50. I don't even care about my consoles having dvd playback nowadays, hell I must have about 6 devices in my home capable of DVD playback. Blu-ray was much more of a talking point back when these systems launched, I suspect as we go further into the digital content realm that any talk of bluray playback in a future xbox will largely be met with indifference. By 2015, blu-ray will be a 9 year old technology, about the same age dvd was when Blu-ray came into the marketplace.

I'd sooner put money on MS, if they continue with physical game distribution, to create their own disc tech specifically for xbox 720, before putting in a BR drive. And I would also fully expect, that digital versions of all games will be available day and date with physical games. The best approach in terms of gaming content delivery is to appease both customers, those who want hard copies and those who just want their games stored on a hard drive.

Look what I found on SD for ya..

http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=2775707...com/5000033062

4GB Slim for $175 shipped. Technically I didnt find it.. it was just posted on the front page. But keep your eye open and I'm sure you will find a 250GB slim for around $250 shipped.





Theres also another factor we are forgetting. Moore's Law. And that says that bandwidth will both increase in speed and drop in price. By 2015 25/5 may be considered a 'slow' internet connection. 100/50 or even more.. may be considered the standard package being offered. Forget FIOS.. even 4G LTE networks are capable of tremendous speed. While the technology is still new and carriers are trying to figure exactly how much to charge.. the simple point of matter is the more bandwidth is definitely on the way.
post #160 of 7006
I think Microsoft is more concerned with repeating what happened with the first Xbox. That is, paying an exorbitant amount of money to ATi for their chipset. That is why Microsoft is putting most of their effort into DD, to bypass physical media all-together. Not saying that it will happen but if they do go Blu, then they have to pay royalties on every Xbox sold and I doubt they want to go down that road again. DD makes sense in a perfect world, not one where every ISP is instituting bandwidth caps, and broadband saturation is still relatively low.
post #161 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

There is a better chance of the next Xbox having an HD-DVD drive than a BR drive (which is to say it is not going to happen for either).

You can list your reasons why it would be nice for YOU until you are blue in the face. Microsoft does not agree with you that they will sell more Xbox if they included a BR drive. And it is not just about the Xbox, it is about the whole PC-Xbox-Phone echo system.

The MS approach is to push for the connected device world. Where I can watch a movie on my living room TV, watch it from where I left off on Windows Phone and stream it on my work PC when I get there.

BR just does not fit into that scenario. It is not going to happen. PERIOD.

Sooner you abandon that dream, less disappointed you will be.

You're right this is all about ME!

I have a blu-ray player. I don't particularly care if the next gen has one or not. I'm just speculating on what model MS will choose to follow in the next go-round.

The difference is, I'm not being a smug, condescending prick in my responses.
post #162 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

If you have a PS3 you are already on that path. Many times the PS3 makes you download a firmware update before being able to use it. And while you will not be buying a console that has you download a 5GB+ title (which I honestly think you would with a 25/5 connection), there are many people who would.

Look at the popularity of of things that are media based.. From MP3's to Netflix to App stores. The world is already moving towards a model where content is delivered via the internet only. Disc based media is dying. Rather you accept that or not its truth and as with the switch from analog-to-digital it is something you will get used too.

Many of those people don't have 25/5 connection speeds, which was my point. I'd venture to say that the majority of the population in this country is lucky to have a 3 mbps connection, or the opportunity for a broadband connection at all. Downloading games overnight or interfering with the family's bandwith while downloading games isn't something most would want to deal with.

I would also be willing to bet that if that were the case, price of games wouldn't change, and we would eventually end up paying more in terms of exceeding bandwith caps or increasing our bandwith tiers.

Trust me, I'm all for a download only solution, but what I'm saying is that in my opinion, the next few years would not be the right timing for it in this country.
post #163 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Tell that to, umm... Microsoft.

I don't think the lack of BR has hurt them one bit. I also think Sony's competitive advantage has dwindled as prices have dropped. PS3 with BR was awesome when players were $500. Now that they are $75, it doesn't really matter.

And if anyone wants to watch HD movies on their machine, they can get them through video marketplace, where Microsoft takes the largest cut.



They are playing the same game as other companies making computers, and it's hard not to buy a PC nowadays without Blu-Ray. Yet people don't care. I think that if the next Xbox came out without Blu-Ray, it'd be the same situation.

I already addressed the current situation. There was no next gen disc format leader when the 360 was released and it took a good chunk of this generation for Blu-Ray to catch on. So no, lack of Blu-Ray was not as big a factor as it will be going forward. MS was also backing HD DVD at the time so going Blu-Ray would have been retarded.

Your point about market place movies makes sense as long as you are preaching to the choir but the Mom in the store is going to ask if it has Blu-Ray. Most people buying consoles don't know what the forumites know. Not to mention that 40% of US households don't have internet and therefore cannot access marketplace.

Lastly, people don't care that PCs have Blu-Ray because most people don't watch movies on their PC. They watch them on TVs. The vast majority of the US Population will connect a console to their TV before it ever occurs to them to connect a PC. Heck, the main reason MS made a console was to get into the living room, where PCs aren't.
post #164 of 7006
Why do you believe that you have to download the entire game before you can start playing?

I can easily envision a scenario where even a game that is 30 or 40 GB large can be played instantly while the majority of it is downloaded in the background while you are playing the game.

You can already stream HD content almost instantaneously. There is no reason why you cannot do that with a game.
post #165 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

Many of those people don't have 25/5 connection speeds, which was my point. I'd venture to say that the majority of the population in this country is lucky to have a 3 mbps connection, or the opportunity for a broadband connection at all. Downloading games overnight or interfering with the family's bandwith while downloading games isn't something most would want to deal with.

I would also be willing to bet that if that were the case, price of games wouldn't change, and we would eventually end up paying more in terms of exceeding bandwith caps or increasing our bandwith tiers.

Trust me, I'm all for a download only solution, but what I'm saying is that in my opinion, the next few years would not be the right timing for it in this country.

It is surprising that many are not considering this part of the equation. We are talking year 2013-2015 consoles, not 2025 or even 2018.
post #166 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

Mom in the store is going to ask if it has Blu-Ray.

Mom in the store has no idea what Blu-Ray is.

Mom is just going to ask for the game and the clerk is going to ask "for what console?". Mom will barely know what console her child has and will not care if it comes in a disk or whatever.

People outside of these forums, really don't care what medium something is delivered. They care more about convenience.
post #167 of 7006
What about this angle.. For any next gen console, its pretty much a given that the games will most likely exceed the storage capacity of a DVD. Also, think of this - what component on the current gen of consoles is a leading contributor of noise and heat? Hmmm... the optical drive... So, would it be unreasonable to think that our next gen Xbox would use use a flash drive? The prices of flash memory keep dropping, and it would also eliminate the heat and noise of an optical drive.
post #168 of 7006
I've said flash and think its a great option. What do you think 16GB of portable flash memory costs wholesale these days.. $10 bucks? What about in 1-2 years.. $5 bucks? If they can get 16GB of portable flash mem down to $5 bucks or less by holiday season 2013 theres your next-gen storage medium. And you can avoid an optical disc all together and make the console incredibly small. Sell games on flash for $60-65 bucks. Sell the digital download version for $50-55 bucks.
post #169 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Look what I found on SD for ya..

http://slickdeals.net/?sdtid=2775707...com/5000033062

4GB Slim for $175 shipped. Technically I didnt find it.. it was just posted on the front page. But keep your eye open and I'm sure you will find a 250GB slim for around $250 shipped.





Thanks for the tip, I was looking around on that site earlier today. I definitely want to go for the 250gb, my other dilemma( well not really a dilemma) is whether I want the kinect now or wait till further down in the year. I've already convinced the wife to sell her wii fit board and told her she'll get a better experience with the dance central game.
post #170 of 7006
still $10 vs $0.10 for a dvd, maybe less.
post #171 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd View Post

still $10 vs $0.10 for a dvd, maybe less.

And to compete with blu-ray you need more like 50GB, not 16.
post #172 of 7006
*sigh*

I completely agree with Antiochus and really don't know what to add that he hasn't already said. It seems pretty clear that Microsoft wants to have a piece of hardware that houses all of your entertainment needs. Blu-ray isn't going away in the time that we're looking at a new console. It will almost certainly be the predominant optical/physical movie format by then and download-only isn't going to be a viable option by then either. So, if they're trying to be an all-in-one solution why WOULDN'T they include blu-ray, other than to spite Sony? Sure, they COULD come up with a proprietary format, but why? Blu-ray would be just another selling point. Nobody's going to say "Well, I would have bought one, but it has a blu-ray player", but you might sell a few more units because you'll have some people that either don't have a blu-ray player yet, or are looking for the convenience of having one unit and say "Look, this is a game system AND a blu-ray player". How many people bought the PS3 as a blu-ray player that happened to play games? Granted, blu-ray will probably be much more widespread by then, so that feature won't be AS compelling but you see the point.
post #173 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

There is a better chance of the next Xbox having an HD-DVD drive than a BR drive (which is to say it is not going to happen for either).

You can list your reasons why it would be nice for YOU until you are blue in the face. Microsoft does not agree with you that they will sell more Xbox if they included a BR drive. And it is not just about the Xbox, it is about the whole PC-Xbox-Phone echo system.

The MS approach is to push for the connected device world. Where I can watch a movie on my living room TV, watch it from where I left off on Windows Phone and stream it on my work PC when I get there.

BR just does not fit into that scenario. It is not going to happen. PERIOD.

Sooner you abandon that dream, less disappointed you will be.

Where do you get that from? Because they didn't include one in the 360? Because they don't have a blu-ray add-on? I think they'll include one, but I might be wrong and I can admit that. Why do you feel compelled to spout stuff like it's fact? You claim to have all this knowledge of what Microsoft is going to do and yet you won't tell us how. You keep saying crap about "those people who know who I am", well we don't know who you are. So either clue us in or come down off of your high horse.

P.S. I find it somewhat ironic that a person with the username 'gameboy' is a brilliant Microsoft insider. You'd think he'd be in the Nintendo wheelhouse.

P.P.S. Not saying that nobody makes typos, but it's ecosystem, genious.
post #174 of 7006
bbexperience, you are correct. What I said is not exactly correct. What I should have said is - Microsoft does not agree that Microsoft will make more money by including a BR drive in the next Xbox.

All the typos in the world is not going to change the fact that BR is not in the plans.

You can dance on my grave if I am wrong, but I will keep riding my high horse, thanks.
post #175 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

P.P.S. Not saying that nobody makes typos, but it's ecosystem, genious.

BTW, it is genius, not genious...
post #176 of 7006
post #177 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

BTW, it is genius, not genious...

Yes, thank you Captain Obvious. Maybee I should have put a after it to help you. Or perhapsly a .
post #178 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

bbexperience, you are correct. What I said is not exactly correct. What I should have said is - Microsoft does not agree that Microsoft will make more money by including a BR drive in the next Xbox.

All the typos in the world is not going to change the fact that BR is not in the plans.

You can dance on my grave if I am wrong, but I will keep riding my high horse, thanks.

And yet again I ask you, where do you come from that you think phrasing something as fact makes it so? If you said "I don't think Microsoft..." then I'd be more apt to think your posts were worth looking at.
post #179 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rage Guy View Post


lol. If my spell check suggested 'cat orgies', I'd totally let it go.
post #180 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Mom in the store has no idea what Blu-Ray is.

Mom is just going to ask for the game and the clerk is going to ask "for what console?". Mom will barely know what console her child has and will not care if it comes in a disk or whatever.

People outside of these forums, really don't care what medium something is delivered. They care more about convenience.


I think sometimes we might need to take a break from the forums and visit the real world. Moms absolutely know what Blu-Ray is. It's advertised every time a movie makes the jump to home video. Perhaps they did not in 2006 but it is 2011 now. But it is interesting that you think the same parent that you claim does not know about Blu-Ray, somehow does know about streaming.

And you are right, people do care about convenience. Which is why MS would be wise to make it convenient for people to watch movies on Blu-Ray, downloads, streaming and DVD.
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