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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 89  

post #2641 of 7006
"We're in an industry that talks a lot, that likes telling stories. I am not convinced that things will happen this year. The Xbox 360's cycle is not over at all. The proof is that we haven't price cut this year."

That line means he doesn't even know, he's just got an opinion like everyone else, MS France is hardly the place for xbox hardware info.
post #2642 of 7006
Thread Starter 
I don't think most people were truly expecting a new Xbox this year. It just doesn't make sense, not when you're still selling the Kinect Bundle for $299.99 and it's selling well.

That Bundle needs to be selling for $199.99 and there needs to be a Xbox sans Kinect for $149.99 before I'll think a new console is imminent.


Having said that, I'll be shocked if Microsoft doesn't tease the fact that they got new Hardware coming in 2013.. They have to show some kind of sneak peak at e3. It will be the only way to "win" e3.
post #2643 of 7006
Being number one at E3 is not a factor with any of these companies. They are there to show what's coming and press on with business.
post #2644 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

"We're in an industry that talks a lot, that likes telling stories. I am not convinced that things will happen this year. The Xbox 360's cycle is not over at all. The proof is that we haven't price cut this year."

That line means he doesn't even know, he's just got an opinion like everyone else, MS France is hardly the place for xbox hardware info.

Much more reliable than any internet website or person on some forum.
post #2645 of 7006
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Being number one at E3 is not a factor with any of these companies. They are there to show what's coming and press on with business.


Businesses are run by people. Humans are driven by human nature. Human Nature says that you want to win e3 if you can. A sneak peak video clip of what might be possible (ala the fake Killzone 2 vid at that one e3) would do the trick nicely...
post #2646 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post


Businesses are run by people. Humans are driven by human nature. Human Nature says that you want to win e3 if you can. A sneak peak video clip of what might be possible (ala the fake Killzone 2 vid at that one e3) would do the trick nicely...

What exactly does "winning" E3 do for a company? I mean people claim MS lost E3 but had the best year of 2011. Losing or winning E3 for a 2 hour conference didn't affect the outcome.
post #2647 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

What exactly does "winning" E3 do for a company? I mean people claim MS lost E3 but had the best year of 2011. Losing or winning E3 for a 2 hour conference didn't affect the outcome.

Depends on whom you ask. MS has decided to target the mainstream press, not the video game press. Two E3's ago, they got slammed for their ridiculous Kinect presentation at E3. But the mainstream media ate it up. MS is still riding high on that kick off to their marketing blitz for Kinect.
post #2648 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Having said that, I'll be shocked if Microsoft doesn't tease the fact that they got new Hardware coming in 2013.. They have to show some kind of sneak peak at e3. It will be the only way to "win" e3.

Then, you should sit down because you are about to get a shock of your life...
post #2649 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

What exactly does "winning" E3 do for a company? I mean people claim MS lost E3 but had the best year of 2011. Losing or winning E3 for a 2 hour conference didn't affect the outcome.


Well these companies spend an awful lot of money for their presentations/press conferences. So making a top notch impression to the fans and the press seems pretty important.
post #2650 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

Well these companies spend an awful lot of money for their presentations/press conferences. So making a top notch impression to the fans and the press seems pretty important.

people forgot the intention of E3. E3 is a trade show designed to increased visibility of the products so that the retailers know about the products and know how to sell the product. These are the upcoming products for the selling season, this is what the products do, and these are what make our product special. It's not meant for the buying public directly. In fact, the buying public could not get tickets to E3 except through nefarious ways.

In the old days, the media that attended E3 did not have the Internet as a wide access venue for distribution of their content. They went to E3 to write articles to put in their magazines and newspapers for people to purchase. I still remember reading my EGM or GamePro magazine to get the "latest" info from E3 that was 3 months old but in the pre-Internet day, that was the newest information.

With the explosion of the Internet, now you can easily find any information from E3 instantly, but it wasn't always that way.

These companies use E3 to sell the idea of how to sell their product. How a retailer views a product differs from how a gamer views it which differs from how a gaming reviewer sees it. When Microsoft showed off Kinect Fun Labs and it created an avatar of the person, that received more oohs and ahhs from the audience then MW3. A website like CNN didn't bat an eye at Skyrim but they gave notice to the non-hardcore E3 stuff.
post #2651 of 7006
Well I think this is the last year the 360 has E3 alone. If MS was to tease anything about the 720 it wont come until later in the year. Personally I think they do nothing with 720 this year. A nice price drop will boost sales and really that is all MS can ask for at this point. Sell as many 360s as possible and let 2013 be the year of the 720.

I don't think MS cares much about the Wii U. Whatever lead it gets they can surely catch, and even if they don't They can make a ton of money anyway.
post #2652 of 7006
Thread Starter 
So, you guys honestly think that e3 is going to come and go and that there won't be a single mention about their next hardware? I just can't see that happening. They might not make the biggest deal out of it, but they will mention something.

Of course, I could easily be mistaken on this, and maybe they don't utter a single syllable about it. I'm just a bit surprised that so many think there is zero chance of it happening.
post #2653 of 7006
The 360 is selling too well right now. Why take momentum away from it by announcing a new console that might throw doubt in peoples minds. I also don't think MS cares much about Nintendo. If Sony was announcing or launching a new console it would be different.

For all we know the spec leaks are MS doing. The hardcore would know a console is coming soon, and they are the people MS needs to get excited. The more casual wont know much and their buying decision won't change based on rumors they aren't following.

We may even get tech demos from developers showing off what is possible, but I think MS would be behind that as well. PC games will be a good barometer of what is possible with the next system. BF3 looks fantastic on PC and the next console should be able to do better than that at launch or soon after.
post #2654 of 7006
I agree 1000% with mbyrnes 6:44am comment above. I would only add that MS will user that thing through the ying-yang, like they do with Windows and other key products. The XBox 360 gives them much needed time and profit space to be deliberate and spot on with QA/QC/product features. What is laughable is to assume they would do otherwise with such a vital product for them...and worry about leaks on the console. This forum alone has already, likely discussed everything that will be on every console, including time of launch. Ms doesn't give a rats ast about leaks except the very serious breach of agreement kind. And those won't happen if anyone wants to play the game with them, going forward. And like mbyrnes said above...MS is the likely culprit itself for most of these leaks.

I would also add that very late 2013-summer/fall 2014 is the Huckleberry? I don't realy care. To me all of that is in the same time horizon of when this could happen. Even though I think 2014 is actually much more likely. I believe the timeframe...but I sure as Hail ain't wedded to it!
post #2655 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

I don't think MS cares much about the Wii U. Whatever lead it gets they can surely catch, and even if they don't They can make a ton of money anyway.

The early predictions are starting to prove true: by ditching their most faithful and reliable audience, Nintendo has lost serious momentum in the industry. Their losses this year (close to $1b) are the direct result of not serving that community. No software + old hardware = rapid decline in sales. So, no, MS really doesn't care about the Wii U. They're going to try to have their cake (game software) and eat it too (media streaming and Kinect).
post #2656 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The early predictions are starting to prove true: by ditching their most faithful and reliable audience, Nintendo has lost serious momentum in the industry. Their losses this year (close to $1b) are the direct result of not serving that community. No software + old hardware = rapid decline in sales. So, no, MS really doesn't care about the Wii U. They're going to try to have their cake (game software) and eat it too (media streaming and Kinect).

With the right console and games, Nintendo could easily win that audience back. Easily. Every Nintendo console but the wii was a "gamer's console." Nothing is preventing them from learning their lesson and doing it right next gen. Nintendo has outright stated theyre gunning for that audience back. Tides can turn very quickly. Would anyone have believed the PS3 would be the black sheep for years when the PS2 was in its heyday?
post #2657 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

With the right console and games, Nintendo could easily win that audience back. Easily. Every Nintendo console but the wii was a "gamer's console." Nothing is preventing them from learning their lesson and doing it right next gen. Nintendo has outright stated theyre gunning for that audience back. Tides can turn very quickly.

Your ignoring other factors. They are launching a new system in their own time frame at an unknown price point and still many other unknowns. That includes online and how the controllers/tablet(s) will be a factor as far as gameplay goes. We saw the decline of the Wii with the rise of Kinect. They have to do more than just Netflix for entertainment and pretty much have to have a robust system like Xbox Live. The games alone isn't what has been making the 360 as popular as it has been.

Quote:


Would anyone have believed the PS3 would be the black sheep for years when the PS2 was in its heyday?

Based on the decisons the company has made some of us can say yes. All the money made in the last 15 years from the Playstation brand have been wiped out by this generation with the decision to include BR, price point and afterthoughts of decisions to add/remove features.

Sony as a company just posted a net loss of 2 billion and dropped their estimate shipping PS3 from 15 million to 14. Sony now has sold 62 million PS3 vs 66 million 360s. So that one million everyone was thinking the PS3 was going to overpass the 360 is now gone. It also didn't matter if it passed it.
Sony gaming devision made a profit but it doesn't matter if the company overall is bleeding money. They are expected to lose 2.9 billion for the year come next quarter. This shows us again why we shoudn't see a rush for new systems in the next 2 years.

MS is the only company out of the 3 that is actually making a profit as a company & in the gaming section. MS surpassed their goals and got more than they expected as far as marketshare goes and the brand name more popular than they expected it to be.
post #2658 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Ms doesn't give a rats ast about leaks except the very serious breach of agreement kind. And those won't happen if anyone wants to play the game with them, going forward. And like mbyrnes said above...MS is the likely culprit itself for most of these leaks.

Obviously, you have not been paying much attention to Microsoft lately.

Microsoft has FIRED several prominent engineers due to leaks that most of us would consider very minor over the last 6 months alone. These are guys who were with Microsoft for over 10 years, working on some important stuff.

There is an iron curtain around NexBox in Redmond. If you think these leaks (if they are leaks at all, almost all of them look like made up stuff) are coming from Microsoft, you are quite mistaken.
post #2659 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Obviously, you have not been paying much attention to Microsoft lately.

Microsoft has FIRED several prominent engineers due to leaks that most of us would consider very minor over the last 6 months alone. These are guys who were with Microsoft for over 10 years, working on some important stuff.

There is an iron curtain around NexBox in Redmond. If you think these leaks (if they are leaks at all, almost all of them look like made up stuff) are coming from Microsoft, you are quite mistaken.

MS is a huge company. They hire and fire a lot of people for a lot of reasons everyday. I might be mistaken. So may you. We, after all, are all just speculating on this thread. But the MS guy in France sure talked pretty openly about a few eyebrow raising things. Other outside vendors have too. I agree with you however about the engineers. But that is exactly the kind of folks I was talking about when I said, breach of confidence agreements. They all deserved to be fired...because engineers work on the very heart of patents and IP. I don't care how small the breach and obviously neither does MS. Those folks are under strict agreements to shut up unless authorized otherwise. Even people allowed into user test panels operate under some form of confidentiallity agreement. But the product is practically market ready at that point. And a user breach is much less invasive or risky than an engineer one. You actually reinforced one of the exact points I was making. I'm sure The iron curtain is around areas where they should be. But throwing a new console out into the market without rigorously testing it with actual users under real world conditions is just beyond incompetent. Especially for a company like MS. Bottom feeders usually do that sort of stuff.
post #2660 of 7006
You still don't get it. They have fired marketers and vendors too. I just highlighted engineers because companies do not like to fire talented engineers with minor leaks (when the leaks were completely innocent kind). And they weren't fired for leaking anything related to patents or IP, they were mostly due to announcing things before they were supposed to.

France is the LAST place you will hear anything relevant to actual NexBox engineering. Ireland or London, maybe. France??? Are you sh#tting me?

There is an iron curtain for everything Nexbox. They won't even open up the new dashboard update until the last minute to outsiders, you are nuts if you think they will do that with the hardware.
post #2661 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

You still don't get it.
France is the LAST place you will hear anything relevant to actual NexBox engineering. Ireland or London, maybe. France??? Are you sh#tting me?

There is an iron curtain for everything Nexbox. They won't even open up the new dashboard update until the last minute to outsiders, you are nuts if you think they will do that with the hardware.

Oh I get it alright. Much more than you think. You are just too caught up in your world of absolutes and insults to see anything else except your own POV. What you call an "iron curtain" is nothing more than confidentiality agreements, non disclosure agreements, Ip agreements,employment contracts, supply contracts bound by said agreements, user agreements and secrecy pacts. No different than rules governing over 100 products and 10 new technologies I've been involved in over the last 30 years. I personally know at least 5 people within that span of confidentiality who know everything there is to know about the next XBox. Some are inside MS and some are outside. So much for your iron wall. But here is the important thing Gameboy. They have never told me anything about it...other than "we are working on it and have been for a long time". Nor have I asked. XBox is not what we talk about whenever we do catch up. It would be very insulting to them if I invaded their zone of privacy that way. I have talked about a kick ast new IP idea. One that I have played around with for about 10 years...an idea that an "Iron curtain outside/inside guy" thinks could be a huge new franchise in NexGen type consoles & PC markets. But that is all we've talked about. Nothing specifically NexGen XBox. If anything does even materialize, I'm getting too old to enjoy the fruits anyway. My point is this. These kind of conversations go on all the time...inside Team XBox, MS, outside MS...and yes...even with the French!

Here's what you don't get. 1) MS will not hurl a product as important as the Next XBox into the marketplace (especially one as uncertain as this one) without rigorous testing by a myriad of audiences...inside their company, outside developers/suppliers...and outside users who are bound by the same type of agreements mentioned above. 2) XBox is absolutely no exception to MS' governing corporate policies. Especially regarding corporate security and IP. 3) The XBox firewall is no more or less secretive than Windows or any other MS product within their corporate development shell.

Your point about the dashboard is simply naive at best. I'm an outsider...and I and probably some others right here on this thread were on a user panel that beta tested that dashboard. So again you are simply validating the point I made earlier. It was the last minutes before the product went out. They wanted real world user feedback. They got it. And none of us talked about it. Nor will we talk about NexBox in the future, if we serve on a similar last minute user panel, before a full market launch. So okay. We're talking hardware. Different chain of custody in the materials management process. But same overall corporate process rules regarding finished product IP rights and restrictions.

But lookit...I don't think you are nuts for thinking the way you do about this stuff. You obviously just don't know how the product development process really works at a company like MS. I do. I truly don't get your point about the French. MS can leak what they want...anywhere they want. You are naive to think they don't leak stuff about NExBox.
post #2662 of 7006
HA! You have no idea what your talking about.

Iron curtain means that there is absolutely no approved leaks with any information related to NexBox. Nobody at MS is leaking any information related to NexBox. If there is a leak, the person who leaked it will be fired. You seemed to think that MS is doling out some early hints and I am saying that that is completely untrue. MS wants absolutely no information about Nexbox in public.

I will make you a bet, I will stop posting here if they EVER allow outside users to beta test NexBox. The only people who will get pre-production NexBox will be key dev partners, key vendors, small number of internal employees and select press people (pretty much the same people who got to preview Kinect - except smaller). That will be it, there will be no wide-scale external beta testing.

Will you stop posting if you are wrong? Since NexBox won't be coming out for a couple of year, you will still have plenty of time to spread your BS...
post #2663 of 7006
Re: the hardcore v casual game debate above. I think this def qualifies as hardcore.

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...fe-for-9-hours
post #2664 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Will you stop posting if you are wrong? Since NexBox won't be coming out for a couple of year, you will still have plenty of time to spread your BS...

Nope! I intend to infect and torment your PC even from the grave. Check it for Gameboy engraved BS and personalized cowturds daily.
post #2665 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Re: the hardcore v casual game debate above. I think this def qualifies as hardcore.

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...fe-for-9-hours

Nothing new. Been hearing about the same stories out of china for years.
post #2666 of 7006
Interesting article by a couple of "insiders" who see and play with this stuff a few years before any of us. Very interesting comments about game ownership and existing formats vs DD, rental, streaming, new formats and mobile gaming.

http://kotaku.com/5883031/these-guys...f-video-gaming
post #2667 of 7006
It is always nice to see people get paid for sprouting BS...
post #2668 of 7006
"It is always nice to see people get paid for sprouting BS..."

I agree...so much better for the economy than just always blasting BS & missle attacks out of your ast on a forum for free. Hmmmmm...I wonder whom that might be? Time sure will tell us that answer.
post #2669 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

people forgot the intention of E3. E3 is a trade show designed to increased visibility of the products so that the retailers know about the products and know how to sell the product. These are the upcoming products for the selling season, this is what the products do, and these are what make our product special. It's not meant for the buying public directly. In fact, the buying public could not get tickets to E3 except through nefarious ways.

In the old days, the media that attended E3 did not have the Internet as a wide access venue for distribution of their content. They went to E3 to write articles to put in their magazines and newspapers for people to purchase. I still remember reading my EGM or GamePro magazine to get the "latest" info from E3 that was 3 months old but in the pre-Internet day, that was the newest information.

With the explosion of the Internet, now you can easily find any information from E3 instantly, but it wasn't always that way.

These companies use E3 to sell the idea of how to sell their product. How a retailer views a product differs from how a gamer views it which differs from how a gaming reviewer sees it. When Microsoft showed off Kinect Fun Labs and it created an avatar of the person, that received more oohs and ahhs from the audience then MW3. A website like CNN didn't bat an eye at Skyrim but they gave notice to the non-hardcore E3 stuff.

Which is also why a few years back E3 drastically scaled itself back. It was starting to become a celebration and one giant party; when in fact it is for business, retail and some PR.

The gaming "press" and web sites are not the target of these trade shows. The MSM, retailers, and shareholders are. They have been trying to refocus on that.
post #2670 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I agree...so much better for the economy than just always blasting BS & missle attacks out of your ast on a forum for free. Hmmmmm...I wonder whom that might be? Time sure will tell us that answer.

You can always stop posting...
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