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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 90  

post #2671 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

You can always stop posting...

And you can always get lost.

G-Boy... you have a real weird fixation with me. In fact, it's sort of creepy. You just can't resist the urge to vent angry, hostile garbage at me from the safety of your little creep room. All you do is attack me personally. It is really bizarre. Is that how you treat all people around you who dare to disagree with anything THE MIGHTY GAMEBOY mumbles? You never factually rebutt anything I say. Or anyone else who disagrees with you for that matter. It's always just BS insults...sight gags...namecalling and pure HorseS...from you. Oh sure...there is a healthy smattering of your opinion. But that's it. And it always come served with your obligatory, juvenile plea for me to personally stop posting on this forum. Do you own this forum? If not...STFU and give it a rest. Your biggest issue is you seem to want all others on this thread to buy all of your babble...hook line and sinker. If they don't...they better duck. Because you will predictably morph into "Hate Mode"...And begin launching a fusilade of immature stink bombs.

I do recognize the spoiled brat behavior though. It's one of a bully who got finally popped in the mouth and kicked in the rear. He's left wounded with nothing but silly pride, back sniping and tough guy posturing...as he seeks more pliable alliances for his "Bully Pulpit". Well G-Dude...I'm not going to stop posting. Especially just to please you. So I offer you the same thing I said earlier in the thread. Just ignore my writings and ease on down the thread. But you just can't do it...can you? So every so often I'll just have to do stuff like this and lay a little Whoop Ast on ya. I don't mind even though it really has nothing to do with NextBox between us does it? Good night Junior.
post #2672 of 7006
Come on homies stop fighting yo!!!
post #2673 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Come on homies stop fighting yo!!!

I tried...But like Michael Corleone said. He just kept dragging me back in it. I even served up a peace offering a few pages back. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do mboojigga. I'll try to ignore the bad form again in the future. And help keep this great thread focused squarely on Next Generation XBox possibilities. But I guarantee you it won't work. Dude's got me in his sniper crosshairs.
post #2674 of 7006
I am afraid whatever "fight" you are having is with yourself.

If you do not like people calling your BS for what it is, you should stop posting so much of it...
post #2675 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

I am afraid whatever "fight" you are having is with yourself.

If you do not like people calling your BS for what it is, you should stop posting so much of it...

What people? You? The rest of the "people" on this forum pretty much exchange ideas...discuss topics...disagree like gentlemen and debate NexBox. Only GamesterBoy is the Hall of Fame flamethrower...and master of insults.

I told you he couldn't resist the urge mboojigga. But honestly, I'm done with this psychopath. Hereafter he's talking to himself in reference to anything I write or say. Anything short of calling my mama a bad name...I'll just ignore his noise. I'm convinced he's just a doppleganger of some poor guy whose face I must have smashed in a football game during my college days. Again...Good night Junior...Go to bed...and brush your canines.
post #2676 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I'll just ignore his noise.

The ignore button is there for a reason.
post #2677 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

........... If Sony was announcing or launching a new console it would be different...................

Don't think they give a rat's @ss what Sony does - it's no longer about consoles (& hasn't been for some time). It appears MS was thinking way ahead on this one. It's about the "ecosystem" (hate buzz words ), it's why the 360 has been about media center integration. Apple got folks into their system with iPods & iPhones..............MS got them in with their "media center" & now they're putting in place the other pieces (Nokia). Now they want to tie everything into one similar interface.................your PC, the Xbox, the phone........

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

....................There is an iron curtain for everything Nexbox. They won't even open up the new dashboard update until the last minute to outsiders, you are nuts if you think they will do that with the hardware.

Bet you've already seen the new dashboard - windows 8. One interface across all systems.
post #2678 of 7006
Guys, no more personal bickering.
post #2679 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The ignore button is there for a reason.

I'm good to go with that advice Confidenceman...and Mike Lang's post below too. This is a great forum. If I have contributed to its spoilage over the past few posts...I apologize to all. Back to the fun stuff of debating about XBox next generation for me.
post #2680 of 7006
Like it or not 4k x 2k is here already.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4381...n-blu-ray-2013

I'm not posting this to debate the merits of the format. My pov is bring it on. Technology needs to keep moving forward. Plus there is a great forward thinking thread in the FP New Tech area with lots of very bright posters going back and forward about it. My question is this...Does anyone here think MS will at least make provision in NexBox to handle the format via HDMI 1.4b or better? At least an addon like the HDDVD model? I would bet the farm Sony will accomodate the format with the Next PS.
post #2681 of 7006
Firmware updates plus a decent scaler and the support is already there. Odds are the PS3 will get 4k support in the near future, maybe even the 360.
post #2682 of 7006
I would be very happy if the next XBox's blu-ray player didn't use Cinavaia protection (and of course, these ridiculous rumors about blocking used software being proven false).
post #2683 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Like it or not 4k x 2k is here already.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4381...n-blu-ray-2013

I'm not posting this to debate the merits of the format. My pov is bring it on. Technology needs to keep moving forward. Plus there is a great forward thinking thread in the FP New Tech area with lots of very bright posters going back and forward about it. My question is this...Does anyone here think MS will at least make provision in NexBox to handle the format via HDMI 1.4b or better? At least an addon like the HDDVD model? I would bet the farm Sony will accomodate the format with the Next PS.

I don't think anyone is debating 4k2k's existence. It has a lower chance of being implemented than a blu player. If they want to put it in were going to have horrible image quality. The graphical power needed to push that Res is a lot more powerful than what is out there. Unless were only talking about movies.
post #2684 of 7006
It would be easier to just code the games at 1080p and run them through a scaler, then you slap the 4k sticker on the box and send it out the door. (Just look at all the people who think that Call of Duty runs at 1080p because their TV says so)
post #2685 of 7006
4k2k?

Boss.....de-plane, de-plane...........Welcome to fantasy island.

Just got HDTVs into mainstream, 3D not yet...........4k2k? Anyone who thinks that's in the next console's timeframe is living on fantasy island.
post #2686 of 7006
There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

There's still a big gap between whats possible, and whats probable since MS has to account for the state of the economy, market, and other logistics they have to deal with. A good example is getting rid of physical media, while at the same needing the ISP infrastructure to allow 50GB+ game downloads regularly.

They might offer it as an option, but they're still going with physical media. The infrastructure isn't there to allow them to do what could be possible.
post #2687 of 7006
Not to mention if you don't sell discs, you shut out a major source of revenue for retailers...and if you wont let them sell the razor blades, they're going to tell you to go pound sand when you ask them to sell the razors themselves.........there will be physical media.
post #2688 of 7006
You've got to wonder what happen if Apple releases a game controller and apps for their upcoming apple TV refresh, which is right around the corner. I bring this up again because the release of the ATV 3 (and ipad 3) is imminent. That can easily undercut everything MS is doing on the media front, and put a real dent in their games business. Their upcoming processor can give the current gen consoles a good run for their money. (and destroy the wii outright). It'd certainly be the most open TV gaming platform for devs.

It's certainly something I'm looking forward to...the big three need a fire lit under their ass.
post #2689 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

You've got to wonder what happen if Apple releases a game controller and apps for their upcoming apple TV refresh, which is right around the corner. I bring this up again because the release of the ATV 3 (and ipad 3) is imminent. That can easily undercut everything MS is doing on the media front, and put a real dent in their games business. Their upcoming processor can give the current gen consoles a good run for their money. (and destroy the wii outright). It'd certainly be the most open TV gaming platform for devs.

You aren't going to see any apple TV product undercutting a 360/Sony set top box. Maybe in the MICROSOFT ARCADE front, but that is where that comparison can end.

The Ipad2 is an amazing tablet, but its a tablet. Its games are designed to look great on a 10" screen, and while it can mirror some games out to a 1080p set, the graphics at that point turn to Xbox-1 level polys and textures but with a native higher rendering resolution. The IPAD 3 may increase its CPU and GPU horsepower, but its going to have to drive a display that is expected to be exactly double the resolution currently out......so that is where that power is going to wind up going, keeping the framerates up for play at a 2k resolution.
post #2690 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post


You aren't going to see any apple TV product undercutting a 360/Sony set top box. Maybe in the MICROSOFT ARCADE front, but that is where that comparison can end.

The Ipad2 is an amazing tablet, but its a tablet. Its games are designed to look great on a 10" screen, and while it can mirror some games out to a 1080p set, the graphics at that point turn to Xbox-1 level polys and textures but with a native higher rendering resolution. The IPAD 3 may increase its CPU and GPU horsepower, but its going to have to drive a display that is expected to be exactly double the resolution currently out......so that is where that power is going to wind up going, keeping the framerates up for play at a 2k resolution.

Except the difference is that unlike the current gen, apple continues to evolve their platform over time. Apple is going to be putting out a new SoC every year for the foreseeable future. If MS and Sony do go for a low end spec, it won't be very long before apple overtakes them. Because as long as we're talking about TVs, 1080p is the max resolution for the foreseeable future - there will certainly be games made with that in mind.

Either case that makes a huge splash when it hits the market - which is inevitable. It might not be damaging to the gears of war crowd at the moment, but it certainly sucks some air out of the room for just about everything else day one, and that has a ripple effect.

I can certainly envision a future where apple pushes nintendo and their low end hardware out, forcing them to just make software, and Sony and MS duke it out for the "high end". Maybe even PCs have a renaissance if steam plays their cards right. None of it is a certainty, but this future isn't far fetched by any means.
post #2691 of 7006
A return to Nintendo's expansion pack concept might make it to where consoles can compete with apple on the yearly upgrades...
post #2692 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

A return to Nintendo's expansion pack concept might make it to where consoles can compete with apple on the yearly upgrades...

Didn't we see this already begin with Kinect an Move? Also don't we see this with the dashboard yearly updates that bring new or redefined features on the 360?
post #2693 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Except the difference is that unlike the current gen, apple continues to evolve their platform over time.

Its still not an apples to apples comparison. Apple is also making its Ipad1 adopters now obsolete after only 2 years, whereas the Xbox 360 i bought six years ago can run everything currently being put out for the system. Do you want to spend $500 bucks every year to get more features? At some point you are going to say "nope". People will jump on Retina Ipad3's. But after that they wont upgrade unless there is some new killer feature, or the performance of the Ipad3's suck or isn't quite powerful enough to do what they want with Retina.

Quote:


Apple is going to be putting out a new SoC every year for the foreseeable future. If MS and Sony do go for a low end spec, it won't be very long before apple overtakes them. Because as long as we're talking about TVs, 1080p is the max resolution for the foreseeable future - there will certainly be games made with that in mind.

See above...you can't keep obsolescing your previous entries and trying to double your performance. Ipad1 to Ipad2 was a major jump...will Ipad3 be a major jump, or just the same performance at a higher native resolution? So then Ipad4 in another year or year and a half or possibly even 2 years....and you are still talking about a device with usually 32 or 64 gigs of storage. As you throw more resources into a tablet or AppleTV, you're going to be putting all those little Angry Birds developers out to pasture as they'll need to become more like console developers to put out games "that complete with EA and Activision and...".....see what I mean?

From an Xbox Live Arcade/PS3 downloadable standpoint, killer arcade games and such then yes, but 4 or 8gb or 16gb console games on a tablet? Its an issue......I mean sure there are "console like games" on tablets and phones now, but they are more like..well....its like you can make DOOM in minecraft, right? Its like that...you can make Call of Duty and have it look great on a phone and 'ok' on a slate, but its nowhere near a console when compared side by side.

Quote:


Either case that makes a huge splash when it hits the market - which is inevitable. It might not be damaging to the gears of war crowd at the moment, but it certainly sucks some air out of the room for just about everything else day one, and that has a ripple effect.

No doubt, but I don't see it as quite the juggernaut some folks think it is. Nintendo should be worried, of course, as they are a gimmick game company and generally release lower-end specced hardware to appeal to broader gamers....those gamers are now abandoning portables and sticking to phones/pods/slates.


Quote:


I can certainly envision a future where apple pushes nintendo and their low end hardware out, forcing them to just make software, and Sony and MS duke it out for the "high end". Maybe even PCs have a renaissance if steam plays their cards right.

Agree.......I wonder if that is why Nintendo is making a run with the Wii U......they know current gen tablets and upcoming phones are making even their flagship 3DS system look almost pointless past the 3D gimmick.
post #2694 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post


Its still not an apples to apples comparison. Apple is also making its Ipad1 adopters now obsolete after only 2 years, whereas the Xbox 360 i bought six years ago can run everything currently being put out for the system. Do you want to spend $500 bucks every year to get more features? At some point you are going to say "nope". People will jump on Retina Ipad3's. But after that they wont upgrade unless there is some new killer feature, or the performance of the Ipad3's suck or isn't quite powerful enough to do what they want with Retina.

See above...you can't keep obsolescing your previous entries and trying to double your performance. Ipad1 to Ipad2 was a major jump...will Ipad3 be a major jump, or just the same performance at a higher native resolution? So then Ipad4 in another year or year and a half or possibly even 2 years....and you are still talking about a device with usually 32 or 64 gigs of storage. As you throw more resources into a tablet or AppleTV, you're going to be putting all those little Angry Birds developers out to pasture as they'll need to become more like console developers to put out games "that complete with EA and Activision and...".....see what I mean?

Again, I'm not talking about tablets. I'm talking about apple TV. $100 bucks. I spend more than that every two years on Xbox live alone. People have proven they're more than willing to keep buying a new phones, PCs, iPods, etc. Just like it is on iPhone now, new models get phased in and not used to their max potential, old models get phased out, but overall there's forward movement that people are more than happy to keep up with.

Quote:


From an Xbox Live Arcade/PS3 downloadable standpoint, killer arcade games and such then yes, but 4 or 8gb or 16gb console games on a tablet? Its an issue......I mean sure there are "console like games" on tablets and phones now, but they are more like..well....its like you can make DOOM in minecraft, right? Its like that...you can make Call of Duty and have it look great on a phone and 'ok' on a slate, but its nowhere near a console when compared side by side.

The next apple SoC is very close to a Vita, which itself is pretty close to a PS3. Cod would look pretty good on one. And it basically meet or surpasses current gen by next year. This can move very fast.

Quote:


No doubt, but I don't see it as quite the juggernaut some folks think it is. Nintendo should be worried, of course, as they are a gimmick game company and generally release lower-end specced hardware to appeal to broader gamers....those gamers are now abandoning portables and sticking to phones/pods/slates.

Agree.......I wonder if that is why Nintendo is making a run with the Wii U......they know current gen tablets and upcoming phones are making even their flagship 3DS system look almost pointless past the 3D gimmick.

Nintendo definitely has the most to fear short term....but I wouldn't underestimate what Apple could do over 5 years.
post #2695 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Again, I'm not talking about tablets. I'm talking about apple TV. $100 bucks. I spend more than that every two years on Xbox live alone. People have proven they're more than willing to keep buying a new phones, PCs, iPods, etc. Just like it is on iPhone now, new models get phased in and not used to their max potential, old models get phased out, but overall there's forward movement that people are more than happy to keep up with.

Right..for 2 generations. People stopped upgrading their ipods when they went "Gee, do I really need 2 terabytes of hard driveable music in my pocket?". Before that they upgraded each generation....Back in 1992 and 1993 people were upgrading their PC's every 2 or 3 years too. $2 grand every couple years, boom, boom...Dell, Gateway, etc all opened their own retail stores because people bought a new PC every year. Enter 2000....everyone's OOB because people finally realized "holy crap that Dell box we bought Grandma last year is faster than what NASA had 10 years ago! lets not upgrade again". The same will happen for slates at some point.

But I digress you are talking about appleTV and set top boxes. If AppleTV suddenly becomes a console, and comes out with controllers (or you can use your ipad/ipod/iphone of course in a pinch) then it will be a Nintendo-esque gadgetpalooza.....but still not seeing the part where it interferes with high end consoles.
Quote:


The next apple SoC is very close to a Vita, which itself is pretty close to a PS3. Cod would look pretty good on one. And it basically meet or surpasses current gen by next year. This can move very fast.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I just don't see this yet. If Microsofts next xbox is only a 1080p upgrade of its existing hardware then you may be onto something, but I'm thinking that Sony and Microsoft stay one step ahead.


Quote:


Nintendo definitely has the most to fear short term....but I wouldn't underestimate what Apple could do over 5 years.

Slate Software: Small teams, low budget, low selling price, recoup your costs in a week. Console software: enormous teams, massive budget's, 50, 60 dollar selling prices...recoup your costs, maybe, if its a break-away hit in the first week or two...but fo rmore games it takes the lifetime of the game to turn a sizable profit. If you turn a profit.

What we ought to be afraid of is companies like EA (and definitely like EA) saying to their programmers "You know..lets just re-use all those old assets and not spend too much developing new tech or engines or whatever, and then we just make an assload of money on a quick cash-grab in preorders before the reviews come out and go "its more of the same you played 3 years ago")........and that is because they are seeing that 3 guys in a garage can make a game for 50 grand, sell it for two bucks, and become instant millionaries several times over.

But those guys are making slingshot games, not epic games with precision modeling and texturing and whatnot...
post #2696 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

but still not seeing the part where it interferes with high end consoles.

Short term, it severely undercuts their media efforts, since apple is the current big dog in that race. It puts serious heat on their casual ambitions. It makes their static hardware strategy unviable over the long term if piddly SoCs can catch up within a few years. It also puts tremendous price pressure on their hardware and software.

Basically, it backs them into a corner.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that higher priced games can't sell well on the app store if they're properly curated, differentiated, and marketed as high end experiences. High and low priced software coexist just fine on the Mac app store. Its merely a marketing problem that can absolutely be solved by redesigning their game/app store.
post #2697 of 7006
The big question is really the controller. What would make sense to me is something shaped like an iPod touch with a few buttons/pads/sticks around it, that's basically little more than a small touchscreen, small battery and Bluetooth. No SoC, wifi, storage, glass case, etc. They could probably pull that off for under $50 with scale, and maintain some level of cross functionality with their other iOS devices, while being way more game friendly.
post #2698 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Short term, it severely undercuts their media efforts, since apple is the current big dog in that race.

I actually hope this is the case.....I want my game console to be epic, stellar at playing games. The fact that it streams netflix is irrelevant at this point, so does my Oral B tooth brush with the 11n Wifi built in. I consider this a good thing.

One thing that would be interesting would be if the next gen systems offered downloadable HD music and playback. You know, SACD/DVD-A and other master-quality musical downloads. That is something your phone, watch and even your pricy slate wont do.......they could surprise us by reminding us that High Definition audio is way better than Mp3's, and if the devices are designed to stay in the living room hooked up to 5.1 sound, that is one way to make them "unique" and give them value add.

Quote:


There is absolutely no reason to believe that higher priced games can't sell well on the app store if they're properly curated, differentiated, and marketed as high end experiences.

I suppose if there is a market someone will try to fill it. Does Apple have the chops to wage console war? Depends.....it has three established folks already battling in that arena.

Can apple come along and snatch all that business away? perhaps.....but how? Their products aren't known for selling on the affordable side, and I'm not sure what else they could offer the home consumer that Sony, Microsoft and nintendo are not already going to beat them to the table with.

Motion controls? Check. 3D output? Check. no control at all? Check. High Definition? check.

Maybe if Apple came out with a Retina-Display TV at 2k or 4k that ran streamed 2k or 4k movies via an App built in, that could then be paired with an Apple Console that streamed high bitrate audio and allowed gaming at 2k or 4k resolutions......well, then they might be onto something.

But that is a lot of investment and a lot of risk, and if you remember Apple's history well enough you'll know they are not, by far, an infallible company. IT would be a major gamble putting them at odds with almost everyone.

I, personally, hope Apple does not take over the gamespace.....there is such a thing as Orwellian dominance.
post #2699 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The big question is really the controller. What would make sense to me is something shaped like an iPod touch with a few buttons/pads/sticks around it, that's basically little more than a small touchscreen, small battery and Bluetooth. No SoC, wifi, storage, glass case, etc. They could probably pull that off for under $50 with scale, and maintain some level of cross functionality with their other iOS devices, while being way more game friendly.

Yep, all it needs is a controller shell with triggers and buttons and dual pads and you slide your ipod or phone down into it, click, BT or hardwired connection adn boom....you've just built Nintendo's U controller in smaller scale
post #2700 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I actually hope this is the case.....I want my game console to be epic, stellar at playing games. The fact that it streams netflix is irrelevant at this point, so does my Oral B tooth brush with the 11n Wifi built in. I consider this a good thing.

Well, having apple come in and dominate the low end could get them to carve out a proper high end niche instead of all this dabbling in the living room nonsense. Could be a win for the hardcore gamers, of which there are many millions that still need to be served and catered to. Nintendo made everyone believe it was possible, but no one else has really set that market on fire since the Wii, and I don't think the Wii U is it.

Quote:


One thing that would be interesting would be if the next gen systems offered downloadable HD music and playback. You know, SACD/DVD-A and other master-quality musical downloads. That is something your phone, watch and even your pricy slate wont do.......they could surprise us by reminding us that High Definition audio is way better than Mp3's, and if the devices are designed to stay in the living room hooked up to 5.1 sound, that is one way to make them "unique" and give them value add.

If you're ever going to see someone push audio quality, its almost certainly going to be Apple (who basically is the music biz at this point).

Quote:


I suppose if there is a market someone will try to fill it. Does Apple have the chops to wage console war? Depends.....it has three established folks already battling in that arena.

Can apple come along and snatch all that business away? perhaps.....but how? Their products aren't known for selling on the affordable side, and I'm not sure what else they could offer the home consumer that Sony, Microsoft and nintendo are not already going to beat them to the table with.

Can they steal it all away and dominate? I don't think so. But they can be a major player. I mean seriously, they are literally just a controller away - they already have the hardware and the distribution infrastructure. They can offer a platform thats substantially different that the others, that can work in tandem with the gajillions of other apple devices. I could imagine some crazy new games people could come up with, without being shackled by publishers. There's a lot of garbage on the iOS app store...but there are enough true gems to make this a worthwhile endeavor.

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But that is a lot of investment and a lot of risk, and if you remember Apple's history well enough you'll know they are not, by far, an infallible company. IT would be a major gamble putting them at odds with almost everyone.

I, personally, hope Apple does not take over the gamespace.....there is such a thing as Orwellian dominance.

The chances of them taking over completely anytime soon seem really slim, since no one can do everything well - but they WILL be a real player, mark my words.
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