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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 132  

post #3931 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'm not worried about pricing....it'll sort itself out. If people cant afford the games the system will die. I want the price of console games to stay relatively high anyway.

Your wish may be granted.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/07/10-bold-xbox-predictions-for-2013
post #3932 of 7006
Interesting. I wonder if that $400 price holds true, if Sony will be forced to maybe go a bit lower (if they release in 2013 also)?
post #3933 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Interesting. I wonder if that $400 price holds true, if Sony will be forced to maybe go a bit lower (if they release in 2013 also)?

$400 isn't even expensive. That's what the 360 was in 2005. Adjusting for inflation that's like $450 today. Any less than $400 and we're not getting the Xbox 3 we deserve after 8 years of waiting.

If the hardware and games are good enough to justify it, people will pay it. It's not like the iPad is selling poorly at $499, and that's also basically an entertainment device. The price will come down eventually. They need this box to last at least half a decade, they can't hobble it from the start. If they want to sell people cheap consoles they'll have the 360 on the market for a few more years.

As far as Sony goes....I don't think they're going to start a price war that early. They're both going to come out at the exact same price.

Personally I wouldn't mind at least one top end SKU from each of them to hit $599, as long as there's hardware in it to actually justify that price tag, not just a super expensive bluray drive that does little for games, or a slightly bigger HDD.
Edited by bd2003 - 1/7/13 at 12:52pm
post #3934 of 7006
That's true about the iPads, but the iPad is also compared to other computing devices, where it is affordable. The Xbox is not.

Sony tried to launch a $599 system and it was a disaster. I don't think it would go any better this time.

$499 maybe but I think MS will just try to hold it at $399. Your point about inflation doesn't exactly hold true because of just how quickly PC hardware advances.
post #3935 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

That's true about the iPads, but the iPad is also compared to other computing devices, where it is affordable. The Xbox is not.
Sony tried to launch a $599 system and it was a disaster. I don't think it would go any better this time.
$499 maybe but I think MS will just try to hold it at $399. Your point about inflation doesn't exactly hold true because of just how quickly PC hardware advances.

All true...but I think people are smarter than that. The ps3 couldn't justify the $599 price because people took one look at the games and it didnt look significantly better than the 360. Most people didnt want a bluray player, they wanted an awesome console. No one was fooled.

People see an iPad, iPhone, whatever gadget....if it presses that "I MUST HAVE THIS" button, the actual price is almost irrelevant as long as its reasonable. People still pay for XBL even though PSN is free, because its still better in some ways. People pay a ton for cable when netflix and a roku will suffice, people even pay another $20 on top of it for HBO cause the shows are that good.

A $299 console will look good, but if a $499 console just completely blows people's minds with sh*t they've never seen before, an experience so obviously a cut above....people won't want to settle, even if they have to wait.
Edited by bd2003 - 1/7/13 at 1:35pm
post #3936 of 7006
So I can't read the article here at work, but are they saying the price of the new Xbox will be $400 or $500? I already planned on getting it and figured it would be $400. In fact, I don't know why anyone would think that the new consoles would cost less than $400, since they are upgrades to current consoles.
post #3937 of 7006
Here's the full article:

1
State of Decay and LocoCycle will be the stars of this year’s Summer of Arcade.
2
Shadow Complex 2 will finally be announced…as an Xbox Live Arcade launch title on the next-generation Xbox.
3
Said next-generation Xbox will be publicly announced at a special event one month or less prior to E3 in June. It will be broadcast live on Xbox Live and the Internet.
4
Microsoft will take a page from the Apple playbook and officially call the next-gen Xbox simply “Xbox.” Not Xbox 720, not Xbox Infinity, not anything else. We’ll casually refer to it as “The New Xbox” for a while until it’s not new anymore.
5
The New Xbox (see, we’re doing it already!) will cost $400 in its most popular/gamer-friendly configuration. Not a penny more. A basic, smaller-storage version will run you $350.
6
The New Xbox will be released in November and kick serious ass on both the tech bench and at retail store registers.
7
Bungie’s new game Destiny will be the headliner at Microsoft’s E3 press conference and be the flagship title for The New Xbox – though it will also release for Xbox 360.
8
Both the Xbox 360 and New Xbox versions of Destiny will be cross-compatible. It’s all the same Xbox Live, after all…
9
Meanwhile, Alan Wake 2 and Forza Motorsport 5 will be two of Microsoft’s biggest first-party (read: exclusive) launch titles for The New Xbox.
10
Harmonix will have a big new thing for Kinect 2.0 ready to go at The New Xbox’s launch.
post #3938 of 7006
that's more a speculative piece than anything. if was a leaked piece or something substantive, it'd be worth talking about.
post #3939 of 7006
That all sounds awesome to me! I am excited about Shadow Complex 2, the first was my favorite arcade title. I am looking forward to the next generation. Hopefully XBL won't go up too much, and I wonder if there will be backwards compatbility, so I can keep my games and give my 360 to my kids.

Edit: That makes it sound like Bungie's next game will be Xbox exclusive. I thought they wanted to go multiplatform?
post #3940 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

that's more a speculative piece than anything. if was a leaked piece or something substantive, it'd be worth talking about.

Oh yeah, it's 100% speculative, in case the URL wasnt clear.
post #3941 of 7006
Shadow Complex remains the only Arcade title I have spent money on. That may tempt me into biting early if the rest of the lineup is solid...
post #3942 of 7006
really? you're missing out. tons of great arcade games out there.

I just finished up Mark of the Ninja. that's an amazing title and it definitely makes sense why it's on so many writers' list for best games of 2012.
post #3943 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

really? you're missing out. tons of great arcade games out there.
I just finished up Mark of the Ninja. that's an amazing title and it definitely makes sense why it's on so many writers' list for best games of 2012.

That game is easily one of the best games I've played last year, maybe my single favorite. I never knew stealth could be so much fun.
post #3944 of 7006
Epic was working on Shadow Complex 2 and canned it for Infinity Blade 2 (IB made them way more money than SC). Doesn't mean they won't pick it up again, but that's where that game was at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

All true...but I think people are smarter than that. The ps3 couldn't justify the $599 price because people took one look at the games and it didnt look significantly better than the 360. Most people didnt want a bluray player, they wanted an awesome console. No one was fooled.
People see an iPad, iPhone, whatever gadget....if it presses that "I MUST HAVE THIS" button, the actual price is almost irrelevant as long as its reasonable. People still pay for XBL even though PSN is free, because its still better in some ways. People pay a ton for cable when netflix and a roku will suffice, people even pay another $20 on top of it for HBO cause the shows are that good.
A $299 console will look good, but if a $499 console just completely blows people's minds with sh*t they've never seen before, an experience so obviously a cut above....people won't want to settle, even if they have to wait.

The average selling price of PCs is $420. There are obviously much better and more capable PCs out there but the cheap ones are more popular.

And that's a PC, with a lot of utility. We're talking about game machines here. I think people are more price sensitive to this stuff than you think.

I also don't think people care about graphics that much. The ones who do already play on a PC.

Plus there's the actual difficulty of getting really great, impressive, cut-above games out there at launch. I haven't seen that happen since Dreamcast.
post #3945 of 7006
I have a working 360. I have a Kinect, although just for voice commands. Until there are no more 360 games to buy, I'm set. What I'd need in a New Xbox is 360 compatibility. What's the latest on that?...
post #3946 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Epic was working on Shadow Complex 2 and canned it for Infinity Blade 2 (IB made them way more money than SC). Doesn't mean they won't pick it up again, but that's where that game was at.
The average selling price of PCs is $420. There are obviously much better and more capable PCs out there but the cheap ones are more popular.
And that's a PC, with a lot of utility. We're talking about game machines here. I think people are more price sensitive to this stuff than you think.
I also don't think people care about graphics that much. The ones who do already play on a PC.
Plus there's the actual difficulty of getting really great, impressive, cut-above games out there at launch. I haven't seen that happen since Dreamcast.

I read that report - the average selling price of *Windows 8* PCs is $420. That says more about the commodification of PCs and the undesirability of windows 8, than it demonstrates an economic reality. People already have PCs, and theyre not terribly interested in paying a lot for another one, and nothing about windows 8 excites them. They are however, quite interested in paying 500+ for an ipad....because thats still new and exciting.

Im not disagreeing that people are price sensitive though - many are. And the 360 is there for them. If they dont have one already, they'll be cheap to buy. Sony stopped making the PS2 last week....and it sold hundreds of thousands for years after the PS3 launched.

So if people see a console that looks like a slightly better 360.....that's not going to excite anyone. Thats the kind of show we're going to get with a $299 box, especially if they dont subsidize. PCs do have better graphics, and people who put a premium on that above all have that option....but thats only one factor. PCs are still mostly just showing current gen console games with slightly better graphics and resolution. The console are still the driving force behind the high end of the industry.

That game changing killer app might not be there on day 1....but they still need to build a box thats capable of eventually delivering that. It has to go way beyond just better graphics.
post #3947 of 7006
A 299 console will be subsidized, and yea, it will have way better graphics than what we have today. It's kind of hard not to, unless they differentiate on something else like the Wii U did.

The game I point to is Battlefield 3. It's okay on 360, but amazing on PC. The new round of consoles will be able to do that.

In the end though I don't see either Sony or Microsoft trying to sell these platforms on better graphics.
post #3948 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

really? you're missing out. tons of great arcade games out there.
I just finished up Mark of the Ninja. that's an amazing title and it definitely makes sense why it's on so many writers' list for best games of 2012.

I connected my 360 to Live for the first time to get that game (had no hsi at home at the time) I suffered a massive glitch that fubar'd my save files, and achievements and nearly made me smash my system. (it corrupted saves, erased achievments, made several games unplayable, it took 2 months to just fix the corruption so I could reearn the achievements and play my games)

I am not a fan of digital content to begin with and Microsoft has done so much to alienate me that I sold my 360 a few months back. (never should have replaced it after my house fire...) It will take a lot for Microsoft to win me back, they currently rank lower than Capcom in my book.
post #3949 of 7006
Some info on how much money Sony and Microsoft loss with the 360 and PS3.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/8bn-the-total-losses-made-by-xbox-360-and-ps3/0108917

It is even worse than I thought. Don't count on either taking a loss on next gen hardware, they can't afford it. (Microsoft could, but even they are slipping)
post #3950 of 7006
That is an estimate provided by a developer who claims that the future is fancy mobile games while he runs a company working on a fancy mobile game. Hmm.

Even if it were true, those $8 billion are sunk costs and irrelevant to decisions going forward.
post #3951 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

That is an estimate provided by a developer who claims that the future is fancy mobile games while he runs a company working on a fancy mobile game. Hmm.
Even if it were true, those $8 billion are sunk costs and irrelevant to decisions going forward.

True, but with that said there are some interesting trends he brings up, that many a hardcore gamer simply don't to acknowledge. Even this gen, I think we've seen both console manufactures moving away from just the hardcore gamers.

That's been both out of necessity, and chasing faster growing market segments.

And thats not even talking about the Development issues hitting the console/PC blockbuster industry.
post #3952 of 7006
these are tired, regurgitated pieces that come from the same people that have their own agendas. if you want to read this stuff, plenty of it in the rest of the 132 pages of this thread.

phil harrison: "sony is the best ever!"
phil harrison: "atari is the best ever!"
phil harrison: "microsoft is the best ever!"
post #3953 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

True, but with that said there are some interesting trends he brings up, that many a hardcore gamer simply don't to acknowledge. Even this gen, I think we've seen both console manufactures moving away from just the hardcore gamers.
That's been both out of necessity, and chasing faster growing market segments.
And thats not even talking about the Development issues hitting the console/PC blockbuster industry.

Eh, it's never been easy, they're always chasing a moving target. 3 years from now who knows who the dominant player will be.

I don't believe for a second that everyone is going free to play though. That gold rush isn't going to last. The console guys are right to resist it...someone has to.
post #3954 of 7006
F2P has not really panned out. Look at Zynga's stock price. But it's not just then. MS already stopped working on Flight and isn't adding anything else to Age of Empires Online.

That's not to say its not a viable business model but its not the bright way forward any more than motion gaming or casual when the Wii was riding high.
post #3955 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

That is an estimate provided by a developer who claims that the future is fancy mobile games while he runs a company working on a fancy mobile game. Hmm.
Even if it were true, those $8 billion are sunk costs and irrelevant to decisions going forward.

On another forum I visit several people dug through Sony and Microsofts financial reports, those numbers are spot on.

http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/65117283

Lots of stupidity in this thread, but there are a few who do know their stuff. Post #30 is especially worth reading about selling Systems for a loss.

Another link from that thread.

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/06/28/state-of-the-video-game-console-war/

This gen really was a massive money dump for both of them.
post #3956 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

On another forum I visit several people dug through Sony and Microsofts financial reports, those numbers are spot on.
http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/65117283
Lots of stupidity in this thread
LOL. your new link references the article from your old link. I will agree about lots of stupidity in that thread.

and a lot of that guy's analysis in the second link turned out to be wrong since he wrote it in 2010.
post #3957 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

On another forum I visit several people dug through Sony and Microsofts financial reports, those numbers are spot on.
http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/65117283
Lots of stupidity in this thread, but there are a few who do know their stuff. Post #30 is especially worth reading about selling Systems for a loss.
Another link from that thread.
http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/06/28/state-of-the-video-game-console-war/
This gen really was a massive money dump for both of them.

Ah well, that's capitalism. It was a great generation for gamers, arguably the best ever. I don't expect the next gen will be any easier the industry. The competition isn't getting any less stiff, but the early success of the Wii, Call of Duty, etc...there were a *lot* of success stories, hardware and software. All of the companies that folded deserved to.

There will be more than enough players in the industry that we'll see some amazing stuff in the coming years.
post #3958 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

$400 isn't even expensive. That's what the 360 was in 2005. Adjusting for inflation that's like $450 today. Any less than $400 and we're not getting the Xbox 3 we deserve after 8 years of waiting.
If the hardware and games are good enough to justify it, people will pay it. It's not like the iPad is selling poorly at $499, and that's also basically an entertainment device. The price will come down eventually. They need this box to last at least half a decade, they can't hobble it from the start. If they want to sell people cheap consoles they'll have the 360 on the market for a few more years.
As far as Sony goes....I don't think they're going to start a price war that early. They're both going to come out at the exact same price.
Personally I wouldn't mind at least one top end SKU from each of them to hit $599, as long as there's hardware in it to actually justify that price tag, not just a super expensive bluray drive that does little for games, or a slightly bigger HDD.

Really wasn't going the $400 is expensive route, although for some families it might make them look at the Wii U instead, OR, stay with the 360 longer.

I did think they would go the $349 and $299 price though, with one sku being the "gimped" version. I was thinking more along the lines that Sony might use that $400 price to try to undercut Microsoft and maybe gain back some market share they have lost this generation. I will buy both Sony and Microsoft's next system regardless, but I do hope that both go with a free online service.
post #3959 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

On another forum I visit several people dug through Sony and Microsofts financial reports, those numbers are spot on.
http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/65117283
Lots of stupidity in this thread, but there are a few who do know their stuff. Post #30 is especially worth reading about selling Systems for a loss.
Another link from that thread.
http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/06/28/state-of-the-video-game-console-war/
This gen really was a massive money dump for both of them.

First off, yes, it does not surprise me that PS3 has been a massive money loser. And the "success" of 360 has always seemed overstated to me, considering MS sunk billions into fixing RROD and the 360 really did underperform until the 2010 price drop/redesign and Kinect launch.

Thing is, it doesn't matter. That money has been spent, it's never coming back. It's been buried in the financial reports, the companies have taken their value hits from it, it's over.

The next round of systems will be evaluated on their worthiness alone. This is corporate finance 101. If Sony and MS feel that the PS4/720 would be money losers, they wouldn't do it.
post #3960 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

First off, yes, it does not surprise me that PS3 has been a massive money loser. And the "success" of 360 has always seemed overstated to me, considering MS sunk billions into fixing RROD and the 360 really did underperform until the 2010 price drop/redesign and Kinect launch.
Thing is, it doesn't matter. That money has been spent, it's never coming back. It's been buried in the financial reports, the companies have taken their value hits from it, it's over.
The next round of systems will be evaluated on their worthiness alone. This is corporate finance 101. If Sony and MS feel that the PS4/720 would be money losers, they wouldn't do it.

I also wonder what those numbers would be if they factored in blu ray....HD-DVD may very well have won the format war if not for the comparatively huge BD installbase of the PS3. They took those massive losses on each PS3 early on to push that format....and it worked. On balance it might be a net positive, even if the PS3 itself was a loss.
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