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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 145  

post #4321 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

My bolded point within your quote is exactly the point those former and current MS Execs and nervous shareholders made and why why MS stakeholders are near a point of mutiny with Steve Ballmer. Sony didn't dominate the living room. And it had little to nothing to do with MS, Instead it was Samsung who became dominant from a display standpoint...and the Sat/cable providers and telcos like Verizon who successfully defended their turfs who did it. Thus leaving MS a little bit vulnerable to Apple and Google as they neglected their core business in the eyes of those Execs and stakeholders. NextBox won't fix this perception. But it could go a long way toward helping MS rally to at least a superior position against Sony. Especially if it uses NextGen to successfully to converge its living room base with its PC/Windows base via gaming and media. Such a success would definitely help MS stave off a potentially looming Apple/Samsung alliance/threat. Heck...in that scenario, I could actually foresee MS and Sony becoming strategic allies just to protect their respective a.s.s.es. And maybe that is really why both of their NextGen consoles' rumored specs seem to be so close and coordinated. Even their potential announcements seem to be more coordinated than antagonistic.

Edit:
I wrote this before reading Darklordjames comment above. I totally agree with his view on this. It is a potential Apple/Samsung Alliance that has Gates & other institutional MS stakeholders and Ballmer "Sleepless in Seattle" these days. And Ben-Ben: it's not that shareholders hate money. Transactional shareholders don't even matter in this equation. It's the big Wall Street driven institutional players that count and matter. And they like their money to be highly predictable over long stretches of time. And if they even suspect MS' "Free cash flow" and net present value may be impaired by a few rash investment strategies...they will ring the firebells. And that is just what those execs and business analysts are doing. They are vanguard for a wider and deeper question about MS management decisions. And that could cause pause with XBox Durtango plans. Especially since XBox 360 has become a profit machine. I have always positioned that the NextGen XBox would only be a higher spec'd line extension of the XBox 360. And that looks like what we will get with Durango. MS is surrounding the XBox 360 with alternatives...$99 Slim rental...HIgh spec Durango...$99 low spec/DD only/cloud/media box...Surface/Windows 8/Kinect bridge to PC. In their scenario, a profitable XBox 360 and windows 8 platform will still reign supreme for a long time. If it works...Ballmer becomes a genius like Gates and Jobs. If it fails, he'll be posting on these forums with the rest of us before 2014.
post #4322 of 7006
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

Pretty much more of the same, a little more in depth on the various coprocessors. Just solidifies what we've been seeing up until now, the PS4 is more graphically/computationally powerful, the Nextbox's extra memory will enable some things the PS4 won't be capable of, like games and media at the same time.

This is of course only the hardware...the software/network is arguably more important.
post #4323 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

Pretty much more of the same, a little more in depth on the various coprocessors. Just solidifies what we've been seeing up until now, the PS4 is more graphically/computationally powerful, the Nextbox's extra memory will enable some things the PS4 won't be capable of, like games and media at the same time.

This is of course only the hardware...the software/network is arguably more important.

Yup, it really all comes down to the developer. The PS3 was more powerful than the 360 on paper, but a lot of good it does when development for it was inherently different, and more convoluted. Most of the time 3rd party titles had to spend time getting a product just running similar on it, vs coding to it's strengths.

That might be less true this gen, but Dev's aren't going to be spending that much more time (ie money) to go above and beyond the lower product unless there's a financial reason to. Ultimately that would only manifest itself late in the next console cycle, if Sony takes a significant lead in sales of next gen hardware. Something I don't really see happening, at least here in the US.
post #4324 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Especially if it uses NextGen to successfully to converge its living room base with its PC/Windows base via gaming and media. Such a success would definitely help MS stave off a potentially looming Apple/Samsung alliance/threat.
Unfortunately, MS has made some serious strategic errors lately in the whole "convergence" thing. Windows 8, the Windows phone, the Windows tablet, and Smartglass do not presage well for their convergence push. And in terms of gaming, Gabe at Valve has been talking a lot lately about the Linux "nuclear option" if MS keeps going the route it's going.

Anyhow, a lot hinges on what they do with their next box. The 360 has been the only real success in their convergence strategy. But the next console is going to have even more work to do to bring everything else (PCs, phones, and tablets) into the Windows ecosystem.
post #4325 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

"Unfortunately, MS has made some serious strategic errors lately in the whole "convergence" thing. Windows 8, the Windows phone, the Windows tablet, and Smartglass do not presage well for their convergence push. And in terms of gaming, Gabe at Valve has been talking a lot lately about the Linux "nuclear option" if MS keeps going the route it's going.

Anyhow, a lot hinges on what they do with their next box. The 360 has been the only real success in their convergence strategy. But the next console is going to have even more work to do to bring everything else (PCs, phones, and tablets) into the Windows ecosystem.[/quote]"

All true Confidenceman. But if that ecosystem doesn't include XBox 360 at its center for at least 3-5 more years...because of the huge install & profit base...MS and the devs who go all out on NextGen could be in serious trouble. Both MS and Sony are just playing an "Uber" SKU upgrade game and calling it NextGen, IMO...and based on what I have read. And that is very smart by both IMO. It's pure genius if they are both actually collaborating with one another behind the scenes on everything except exclusive game titles.

I have made no secret what I think real NextGen gaming will be all about. And I don't think the real first shot is being fired with Durango or PS4 based on the leaked (on purpose) specs. IMO It is that small silver bullet called Oculus Rift that has Newell, Carmack, the Dev world and game media all abuzz. My opinion about it is firmly stated over on the HTPC part of this forum. IMO it will change how we all experience games...play games and interact with them...within the next 3 years. The great thing about it is the fact it will be compatible across all gaming platforms out of the box. That is the gaming "ecosystem" I am thirsting to see emerge. One that will allow me to replay, rediscover and enjoy my entire library of games all over again. And move on into the world of new kind of games with new consoles or PC developed with that ecosystem in mind. If I was Sony...I would take a lead investor role with Oculus right now. And lock that VR ecosystem down.

I think the dirth of all of these alternative options is what has MS world really nervous about NextGen.
post #4326 of 7006
Since this is the only thread for the next generation I will post this question here. It seems Microsoft plans to extend their whole entertainment box from the 360. What kind of convergence services would people like to see? I am looking forward to Kinect powered voice controlled DVR. I would like to see Instant switching between apps, games, etc.
post #4327 of 7006
I love the natural voice recognition rumors. While the voice recognition with the Kinect was pretty amazing at times, it'd be nice if you could have more than one way to say something.

And while the current voice commands were good, there weren't enough of them. The one I most wanted was one to turn off the Xbox. It never made sense not to have that command. I can understand the reason why there wasn't a command to turn on the Xbox (the Xbox had to initialize before the Kinect could be activated) but didn't understand why not put in the command to turn it off.

Also, the new OS is multitasking! That's a huge boon over the current setup where it takes forever to load everything when you first quit out of a game to go to something like storage or another app. It will also help out with expanding the social aspect. With the lack of multitasking on the 360 and with the lack of RAM, they couldn't be running something like the Facebook app at the same time as a game. Or the last.FM app. That was a huge complaint not being able to stream Internet music at the same time as a game.


http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/7/3958546/new-xbox-speech-recognition-like-siri

excerpts:

Sources familiar with Microsoft's Xbox plans have revealed that Durango, the codename for the next Xbox, will support wake on voice, natural language controls, and speech-to-text. The improved capabilities mean that Xbox users will be able to walk into a room and simply say "Xbox on" to wake up the new Xbox.
We understand that Microsoft is also investigating scenarios where a Kinect sensor will detect individuals in a room and suggest appropriate multiplayer games after a user queries the Xbox using voice.

Users will also be able to automatically resume video content where it left off simply by asking the new Xbox to play a particular movie. With speech-to-text built-in, it's likely that Microsoft will utilize this support to type out messages using the new Xbox. It's widely expected that Skype will make its Xbox debut on the new console. Microsoft will fully detail its new Xbox at E3 this year, with suggestions from sources that the company may hold a separate event to unveil its new hardware ahead of E3. The new Xbox is expected to be released later this year.
post #4328 of 7006
I think we're still too far off from voice recognition working on a day-to-day basis for common uses. And I'm really not sure it is the way things will/should go. At this point, it's no easier than using a controller or remote, and in some ways it's actually less convenient. It's just novel.

I love it as a way of increasing accessibility for disabled gamers and for non-gamers, but at its heart, gaming is about the hands. And it remains to be seen if voice command replaces remote controls for media devices. Traditional media remotes will definitely get supplanted by something, but I'm not convinced it will be voice commands. Again, great for those with various physical limitations, but for everyone else, it doesn't make a lot of sense other than out of sheer novelty.
post #4329 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

I love the natural voice recognition rumors. While the voice recognition with the Kinect was pretty amazing at times, it'd be nice if you could have more than one way to say something.

And while the current voice commands were good, there weren't enough of them. The one I most wanted was one to turn off the Xbox. It never made sense not to have that command. I can understand the reason why there wasn't a command to turn on the Xbox (the Xbox had to initialize before the Kinect could be activated) but didn't understand why not put in the command to turn it off.

You go to Settings, then Say Turn Off, Yes to turn off the Xbox using voice commands. I do it a lot in the morning while I am getting dressed.
post #4330 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

Pretty much more of the same, a little more in depth on the various coprocessors. Just solidifies what we've been seeing up until now, the PS4 is more graphically/computationally powerful, the Nextbox's extra memory will enable some things the PS4 won't be capable of, like games and media at the same time.

This is of course only the hardware...the software/network is arguably more important.

This really doesn't prove that the PS4 will be graphically more superior than Durango considering we don't know the official and real specs of either machine.So many rumors of both next-gen consoles swirling around that it is hard to believe any of them.
post #4331 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Yup, it really all comes down to the developer. The PS3 was more powerful than the 360 on paper, but a lot of good it does when development for it was inherently different, and more convoluted. Most of the time 3rd party titles had to spend time getting a product just running similar on it, vs coding to it's strengths.

That might be less true this gen, but Dev's aren't going to be spending that much more time (ie money) to go above and beyond the lower product unless there's a financial reason to. Ultimately that would only manifest itself late in the next console cycle, if Sony takes a significant lead in sales of next gen hardware. Something I don't really see happening, at least here in the US.

Xbox 360 had a more capable gpu while PS3 had a more beefier cpu which made it a wash in overall HW power.The best thing Sony did this gen was encourage their exclusive dev's to creat custom game engines to specifically take advantage of the hardware.Which is something MS didn't do that with the 360 as it was primarily dependant on Unreal Engine 3 and it's quite a shame considering the 360's Xeno gpu had a revolutionary shader archiecture along with a slew of other features that barely got tapped into.It was wasted potential that never got fully realized unlike the PS3 where they willingly continued to push the system as hard as they could.Ultimately, I believe both next-gen consoles are going to be very capable machines and we should see some amazing things from the talented exclusive developers on either platform.Good times await... biggrin.gif
post #4332 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

You go to Settings, then Say Turn Off, Yes to turn off the Xbox using voice commands. I do it a lot in the morning while I am getting dressed.

there's no "turn off" voice command. i just looked. silly guy. tricks are for kids... tongue.gif

voice commands aren't novel. I hate having to turn on a controller just to pause a movie.
post #4333 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

there's no "turn off" voice command. i just looked. silly guy. tricks are for kids... tongue.gif

voice commands aren't novel. I hate having to turn on a controller just to pause a movie.

There is no one single command for Xbox Turn Off, but if you say Settings, Turn Off , and then say Yes the Xbox will turn off. Not the best video, but it was the first one I found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdovj2LgX4c
post #4334 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreGamer30 View Post

This really doesn't prove that the PS4 will be graphically more superior than Durango considering we don't know the official and real specs of either machine.So many rumors of both next-gen consoles swirling around that it is hard to believe any of them.
The specs now making the rounds have been all but officially confirmed by multiple (anonymous) sources at multiple outlets and forums. But there are two big caveats:

1) The specs for both are about six months old. Of course, between then and launch, not a lot can change. There are too many agreements and production processes that need to get started. But there may be some minor changes to the hardware here and there prior to launch.

2) On paper and in aggregate, the PS4 is "graphically superior." The new Xbox looks to be better equipped for multiple processes--likely for media applications. But neither of those things means much without seeing these things function in the wild. As anyone who is a PC gamer knows, straight hardware comparisons don't mean as much as game-to-game comparisons. So, much like the current gen, we're likely to see a game-to-game variation in which console looks "better." But judging by the specs, these consoles are more alike than any two consoles in gaming history. So those differences will likely be very small.
post #4335 of 7006
If anything, the only real difference will be a few extra settings enabled on the PS4 version of the games.
post #4336 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If anything, the only real difference will be a few extra settings enabled on the PS4 version of the games.

If this ends up being true (and all indicators so far point to it), I don't know about you guys but I'll go with whoever has the system that is better put together / of higher quality. I really never had a problem w/ the dualshock controller, so all things being equal I'll put my bills down where the build quality looks to be.
post #4337 of 7006
Bill Gates always said that it's the software, not the hardware, that will make the difference. That's why I think the 720 will be more appealing as they will have better software and overall polish.
post #4338 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1njin View Post

If this ends up being true (and all indicators so far point to it), I don't know about you guys but I'll go with whoever has the system that is better put together / of higher quality. I really never had a problem w/ the dualshock controller, so all things being equal I'll put my bills down where the build quality looks to be.

Honestly, I'm waiting after the power/heat fiasco's of last gen. Any way you cut it the first 12-24 months are going to be relatively slim pickings as Devs make the transition. I'm not planning on being a "Console Beta Tester" again!

And after that, it'll come down to the same two things this Gen:

Exclusives/1st party IP's, and which network your friends are on.
post #4339 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

And after that, it'll come down to the same two things this Gen:

Exclusives/1st party IP's, and which network your friends are on.

Sounds like the Xbox to me...

For the past few generations of consoles I have been a day 1 buyer, however now that I've got a mortgage and 3 kids, I don't think I will be this round. At least delaying a purchase will shake out any issues with the console and gives developers more time to release good games.
post #4340 of 7006
Microsoft lost me a few years ago due to the lack of exclusives. Halo 4 (6) and Gears 4 just isn't enough anymore. Paying for an ad supported online service also didn't sit with me, especially when the online games have the same lag issues as on the PS3.

Microsoft has the most work cut out to get me back on board. (Especially after they killed Ensemble Studios, it will take a lot for me to forgive them for this one)
post #4341 of 7006
Exclusive will always be a personal decision. There is no definitive best list of exclusives. Microsoft has a large list of exclusives and so do their competitors. Personally, I have never been that interested in Sony's or Nintendo's exclusives so I never picked up their consoles. The games will look good enough on both systems. My guess is Microsoft will design a better media box which is what I want.
post #4342 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Microsoft lost me a few years ago due to the lack of exclusives. Halo 4 (6) and Gears 4 just isn't enough anymore. Paying for an ad supported online service also didn't sit with me, especially when the online games have the same lag issues as on the PS3.

Microsoft has the most work cut out to get me back on board. (Especially after they killed Ensemble Studios, it will take a lot for me to forgive them for this one)
MS made the decision a few years ago to focus on timed exclusives rather than full exclusives. It's a lot cheaper and more effective for them to pay for a 2-month window on CoD DLC than to fund an entire studio year after year. They're focusing a lot more on media integration, and it looks like that will be even more true for their next console.

Regardless, I'm in no rush to get one. After this gen's awful hardware reliability (I had to replace both a 360 and a PS3), I'm waiting at least a year after launch before I even think about buying one. And by then, it may be a moot point with so many other competitors entering the living room "media box" market.
post #4343 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The specs now making the rounds have been all but officially confirmed by multiple (anonymous) sources at multiple outlets and forums. But there are two big caveats:

1) The specs for both are about six months old. Of course, between then and launch, not a lot can change. There are too many agreements and production processes that need to get started. But there may be some minor changes to the hardware here and there prior to launch.

2) On paper and in aggregate, the PS4 is "graphically superior." The new Xbox looks to be better equipped for multiple processes--likely for media applications. But neither of those things means much without seeing these things function in the wild. As anyone who is a PC gamer knows, straight hardware comparisons don't mean as much as game-to-game comparisons. So, much like the current gen, we're likely to see a game-to-game variation in which console looks "better." But judging by the specs, these consoles are more alike than any two consoles in gaming history. So those differences will likely be very small.

The "recent" Durango spec sheets are more than 10 months old and there is a good possibility that those insiders are purposely spewing misinformation about its specs by MS themselves.I do ageee however, that the next-gen isn't going to have either console featuring revolutionary cpu and gpu archiectures like we saw this generation with the PS3 and Xbox 360.I also, I believe that rumor about Durango's OS needing 3 gigs of RAM is absolutely absurd to say the least.Either way, I'm excited to see the official unveilings as both consoles will easily blow away the Wii U in overalll horsepower.
post #4344 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

This is another apples to oranges comparison. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony will never have the deep discount sales that Steam, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming and Amazon Downloads will have. You won't see Microsoft or Sony selling Halo 5 or Uncharted 4 for 5 bucks. That just isn't going to happen. For Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo, $19.99 is about as low as you will ever see their big time moneymaker games.

Yet with Steam, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming and Amazon, you'll get games "eventually" for $5 if you are patient enough. All the patience in the world isn't going to get you Halo 5 and Uncharted 4 for 5 bucks. Those games will need to be 4 or 5 years old before they drop that low. On PC, usually you only need to wait about a year, sometimes less for a 5 spot game. Sometimes it takes 18 months or even more (Skyrim might be one of those games that holds out as long as possible). Normally, within about 8 months of release you're seeing deep discounts. I think Sleeping Dogs was selling for $9.99 or something recently, and that game hasn't been out that long. I recently got Crysis 2 for 5 bucks after waiting a longer than normal time.
What makes Skyrim so unique?
post #4345 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Yup, it really all comes down to the developer. The PS3 was more powerful than the 360 on paper, but a lot of good it does when development for it was inherently different, and more convoluted. Most of the time 3rd party titles had to spend time getting a product just running similar on it, vs coding to it's strengths.

That might be less true this gen, but Dev's aren't going to be spending that much more time (ie money) to go above and beyond the lower product unless there's a financial reason to. Ultimately that would only manifest itself late in the next console cycle, if Sony takes a significant lead in sales of next gen hardware. Something I don't really see happening, at least here in the US.

for what its worth, as long as sony and microsoft are competitors, ported games on both consoles will be 99.9% the same product due to publishers not wanting to spend extra R&D to make two different ports. thats the way it is now and likely the way it will continue.

the fact that neither sony or microsoft wants to be the first to come out with hard specs leads me to believe that what i stated above is in full force and one might want to bombard the other, even if it means a pushed back release date to produce a console far superior to the competitior. or perhaps a different sku console for higher end capability. nonetheless, its going to get real interesting real quick.
post #4346 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

for what its worth, as long as sony and microsoft are competitors, ported games on both consoles will be 99.9% the same product due to publishers not wanting to spend extra R&D to make two different ports. thats the way it is now and likely the way it will continue.

the fact that neither sony or microsoft wants to be the first to come out with hard specs leads me to believe that what i stated above is in full force and one might want to bombard the other, even if it means a pushed back release date to produce a console far superior to the competitior. or perhaps a different sku console for higher end capability. nonetheless, its going to get real interesting real quick.

I doubt it. For them to push back a system to release a beef up the specs would require a huge delay, probably a year. And right now people want new systems. They'll buy the first thing that comes out. If MS were to push Durango into 2014, Sony would clean up. All for something that, really, doesn't make a huge difference on sales.

These companies have the mostly same goals, the same budgets, the same price targets, the same vendors, the same development partners. They both need a reasonably cost-effective system that is easy to develop for and they can push out in the $400 range. It stands to reason that if all the inputs are the same, the output will be the same. They both know what they are doing, so I think everything is set.
post #4347 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

I doubt it. For them to push back a system to release a beef up the specs would require a huge delay, probably a year. And right now people want new systems. They'll buy the first thing that comes out. If MS were to push Durango into 2014, Sony would clean up. All for something that, really, doesn't make a huge difference on sales.

These companies have the mostly same goals, the same budgets, the same price targets, the same vendors, the same development partners. They both need a reasonably cost-effective system that is easy to develop for and they can push out in the $400 range. It stands to reason that if all the inputs are the same, the output will be the same. They both know what they are doing, so I think everything is set.

So you are basically saying we're going to end up w/ a Sonysoft Playbox 4? 6 in one hand, 1/2 dozen in the other. Pick your favorite logo type of deal?
post #4348 of 7006
The hardware leaks of the base consoles are pretty damn close to each other, although they do betray some differences in philosophy. There will still be plenty to tell the consoles apart once software and services come into the mix.
post #4349 of 7006
It's like cell phones, the hardware inside is very similar across all (Windows Phone, iOS, Android, etc.) but they differentiate on software and services.
post #4350 of 7006
9 days to some sort of reveal ... tick tock tick tock.
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