Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 148  

We have plenty of evidence. Both systems have the same basic architecture. If one is more powerful than the other, it won't take much effort to take advantage of the extra power.

Those leaked spec sheets sure didn't just materialize from nowhere. Those loose comments by mission critical Developers didn't just pop out of their a.s.s.es from deep space. The ongoing flirtation with the rumor media/mill by key console, game and parts execs from places like France and elsewhere are not just drivel from a quantum singularity. They are controlled information flows to get reactions. Some are real, Some are bogus. It's fair game for us to discuss these snippets of rumor and fact as voraciously as we deem fit. Because the ultimate decisions will rest with our retail decisions.

I've got a lot of faith in the spec leaks because they're credible. I'd be surprised if they weren't exactly on the mark. As for the used game stuff, who knows...It's all fair game for discussion either way. If you don't want to even discuss the possibilities that's fine, no reason to poo poo just talking about it.

You have a lot of rumor and a lot of speculation. You still have yet to see one game. You have yet to see how those specs will translate into real world applications. The original Xbox had an hard drive in every system. Only a few games ever use that hard drive to its fullest capabilities.

+1 Bd2003. I also think those leaked specs have a lot of truth and fact in them. Especially since there were patent applications with some of them. Those aren't rumors. There is a post over on the HTPC thread by a fellow named ???Andrews. It has a link to a lengthy YouTube presentation by Gabe Newell. A very interesting conversation with lots of indirect references to a lot of what we have discussed in this thread.

We saw Star Wars 1313 and watch dogs last e3. We saw the unreal 4 engine tech demo, and the square engine demo as well, both of which are undeniably aimed squarely at next gen consoles. 4 great examples of what the first round of games will look like.

As to whether or not the ps4's theoretical tech advantage will amount to anything....a 50% rendering advantage isnt minor. Just look at what a simple video card upgrade does for PC games, and you'll have an idea.

None of this stuff is really a mystery unless you have your head in the sand.

Well, those saying that Microsoft must not want their money, and that these "factual" rumors have made their buying decision easier have their heads in another location...

Quite right. Because rumors are fact and we can't change our minds later. Good points here!

I think in many cases, passionate gamer reactions/concerns to the near launch rumors are similar in nature to concerns of stakeholders and others who follow MS. I won't repeat the case for that here. BUt the following 2 threads sorta imply that MS has taken a path that puts it in direct competition with strategic allies like Intel. Passionate gamers feel MS has gone too far down a multimedia pathway with XBox at the expense of their gaming interests. MS sees its future competitors and interests very differently than that as evidenced by the article. Both MS and Intel are trying to transform the video delivery industry as their primary goals. Not drive a revolutionary gaming industry. That charge is taken up more by people like Gabe Newell, PC industry in general...and even Sony and Nintendo to a lesser extent. NextGen is shaping up to be perhaps the most interesting one in decades based on the risks and rewards at stake. Ultimately I think we consumers and gamers will win the day because of the dearth of competitive ideas emerging from all corners. Those who try to lock people out of markets will lose. Those who figure out how to accommodate all markets at a reasonable cost for all will win...BIG TIME IMO!

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/chip-maker-intel-plans-online-tv-service-1C8346372
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/12/microsoft-invests-in-the-future-of-tv-on-xbox-with-new-la-studio

I will hold judgement until after both specs are revealed as well as what each console can do. I am fully invested in Xbox and it is going to take alot to get me to switch.

It would be sweet if MS could get the major sports on board, I would cut the cable cord without a doubt.

Not so true methinks. Practically everything we use were just "rumors" at some point in their development...launch and success cycles. Practically all of us change our minds routinely over things and positions that we take. A ton of things...too lengthy to discuss here dictates that impulse with all of us. Suffice it to say...a mind is a terrible thing to waste...so we change it...with massive regularity. That behavoral law will reign supreme in NextGen with everyone commenting on this thread.

I totally...1000% agree with this highlighted comment. Iam forced to pay a ton for bundled content I have zero interest in watching or using. The company who delivers me from that prison without tricking me into their "Bundled Hell" will win my video loyalty. The future is ala carte IMO. Providers need to change their hopelessly outdated business models (relative to technology)...and figure out how to make more money out of less subscription density...to enable that future or perish.

Check out the Apple TV. They have sports covered (although the sports packages have their own a la carte subs). And movies/TV with Netflix, hulu and iTunes. $99 bucks, uses 2 watts, and then your next gen console decision can be made entirely on games.

Or you could hold judgement until the actual system is revealed. It avoids these kinds of situations. Just sayin'.

Then what would we talk about?

I wish I could quote this on every post that says something ridiculous, to the tune of "well let's just stop talking about it right now and wait and see wait and see, because talking about it right now is obviously causing world hunger, spina bifida, global warming, hurricanes, and yellow teeth".

This just needs to be the "No butthurt" zone. Everything is rumor so dont get crazy up in arms about speculation. Now saying you dont like something is one thing, saying MS is the devil and all bad things in this world are caused by them because they want to have kinect included is a little

I really dont care about any of it, I want a nextgen console! Internet and Kinect would be a baine to my existance but I would probably deal with it. I am not a MS fanboy, I just hate Sony enough to speak with my money

both consoles will be good. so I don't see any problem.

this current gen, people thought the PS3 would dominate. more powerful specs. more established ecosystem. and look what happened. The 360 had the better multiplatform games which usually ran better on the 360. Had the better social network. Had the better pricing. The market answered and it chose, much to Sony's chagrin. The world order changed. Just like the universe shifted from Atari way back when. Just when it shifted to Sony. And then to Nintendo this generation. So it may shift again this upcoming gen. We'll see how it all shakes out. Heck, maybe Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony will be big losers this time around.

The entertainment world is shifting away from the traditional console and it's a mighty task for Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony to adapt to this new world or be marginalized.

To be fair it's actually only a straight 17% edge, because 4 cores are said to be stashed away for OS and other OS uses. Still, Sony tends to push their Devs to code to the hardware more and fully utilize their the hardware around their API's, so there seems to be some wiggle room to use those cores in addition. but who knows, maybe they lock it out as they did with a dedicated OS SPU in the PS3.

Another interesting thing to think about is Sony will still be supporting PSGL (OpenGL ES) and LibGCM, meanwhile MS obviously is pushing DX11 X. So there still will be slight rendering differences in the end, but the parity will be much closer.

They could also do what Nintendo did for the Wii U and add an additional APU for the OS to make sure 100% of the system's core power is going to the games. Then all 8 cores are free to be used in the games.

This new generation for systems I am most likely going to go with one of them. instead of having both. I originally bought my PS3 for Blu Ray movie watching and on occasional must have game (Drakes etc..) for that system. Most of my online play is on the 360 or the PC (Guild Wars 2 and Battlefield 3). With that in mind the new Xbox will most likely be the system I go with just since I have the most games (Xbox live) and friends on that system. I'm hoping I do not rush out and buy one as soon as it becomes available, but it will be hard not to. The other thing to consider is going to be the price point of the systems. My gut is telling me that the Nextbox will be cheaper which will play a role in that, but with the inclusion of kinect 2 I could be wrong. I do think both systems will have some great looking games for it being built for that specific system. Can't wait to see some actual game video though. Until then I'll continue to have fun with all my systems.

Where did you read that? The eurogamer article indicated that 4 of the GPU's CUs were dedicated to compute/GPGPU, not the OS. Normally modern GPUs can just assign it to rendering/compute at will, but this one just has a cordoned off compute block, probably for some sort of efficiency reason. In either case games are going to heavily use it - whatever code is written to utilize those compute blocks on the PS4 is going to have to eat away from the 360's shaders/rendering. It's entirely possible that the majority of games will use 20-30% of the GPU for this kind of code, especially physics. So that full 50% CU advantage should be realized. Plus there's twice the ROPs, and that memory bandwidth advantage.

They can spin the numbers all they want, but if the specs are what we've been seeing, the PS4 is significantly more powerful, and everyone will know it. I really don't think the differences will be subtle this time.

It won't be subtle at all. The main reason for the parity in this generation is that the 360 has a very capable GPU and a better memory set up than PS3. It takes extra effort to make a PS3 game run better than it's 360 counterpart and developers just did not bother with it in most cases. From what we know of the PS4 and Nextbox, they are basically the same machines except the PS4 has faster ram and a better GPU. It won't be difficult to increase performance. In fact, there may be very little extra programming involved.

It is amazing people continue to ignore the last 10 years. As you point people were swearing up and down that PS3 would dominate this generation. It was more powerful and it had more features. As it turns it did not matter how powerful the PS3 was. It was easier to program for the 360 so more developers took advantage of the hardware. In the end both consoles got smoked by Nintendo who "taped two Gamecubes" together.

We saw games running off high-end PCs and videos. We have yet to see anything run off actual console hardware. We have no idea how any of these games will look on Next Gen systems.

There are reasons why the PS3 did not dominate, and not everyone predicted that it would. You are equating more powerful hardware with being harder to program. That is not accurate. The PS3 was more difficult to program because of it's architecture. It's processor and split memory pool was the problem, not how much power it had. This is exactly why we are saying the PS4 will have better looking games this time around. The processor is the same as nextbox, but the RAM and the GPU are superior which means it will be just as easy to program for PS4 and the graphics will be scalable. Even more so with the GPUs being provided by the same manufacturer.

Yep. This is not the same story as last gen. There may be more architecture parity, but there is a much wider spec disparity. PS3 and 360 are apples and oranges. Nextbox and PS4 are apples and bigger apples. Better yet, the industry is unified around x86, just like PCs. PCs require scalable games, so the scalability up to the PS4 isn't extra work, its already done. We won't need eurogamer to pick apart slight differences - they'll be plainly obvious to anyone. Ultimately not everyone will care about quality/performance, the nextbox games will look fantastic. But the PS4 will look better, and that's going to matter.

just pure curiosity, what did sony do to you??

You mean rumored apples and bigger rumored apples, right?

No, what I am saying that the assumption that greater specs, still a rumor, would automatically equal a perceivable advantage to normal people. If there is no drastic between the two no one will care and having the greater spec will not equate to that much of an advantage. There are ton of other factors and to harp on specs in post after post seems to miss the obvious, it may not matter in the long term.