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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 152  

post #4531 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

there are enough million sellers for a peripheral that only reaches 25% of the Xbox population.

And if the rumors are true, 100% of next gen wink.gif

I find it funny that so many people are up in arms over this or that. I could care less about Kinect but think always on will KILL the xbox. Used games...Mehh I dont buy used or sell games. Having next gen power and multi tasking with a FAST UI biggrin.gif:D:D:D:D biggrin.gif
post #4532 of 7006
I do like the idea of the system being able to install while you play. I always install my game and want to jump on it right away but have a wait while it installs. Letting it install while I play sounds like an awesome idea.
post #4533 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Voice command made more sense in the 1950s-80s when people thought home technologies were moving toward some centralized "master control." But we're in the era of multiple devices and greater individuation. It just doesn't make sense anymore. The living room isn't what it used to be. It's a place where people go to be alone together with their individual phones, laptops, and tablets. Voice control only makes sense if you're Captain Picard. It's a gimmick to show off to friends.
I can also say that I can run faster than a Ferrari. But I fail to mention that that's only for the first meter of travel...

a lot of people would differ with you, including Apple with Siri, Google, etc. for me, voice is golden. It means I don't have to turn on the controller just to pause a Netflix movie. you know how much people want voice? they're willing to tolerate the nascent abilities of things like Siri because they see where things are going.
post #4534 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I completely agree with you Onlysublime. And I'll try to take it a step farther by sayining...When the XBox team figure out how to make Kinect useful and total fun to use for the guy sitting on his Lazy Boy recliner, couch, floor, computer chair, and walking on his treadmill, riding his stationary bike and using other static movement fitness/competition devices (hint-hint), it will be a 100% success.

dude, no one is a miracle worker. the fat lazy guy will always be a fat lazy guy... tongue.gif

all the exercise companies know this. "our product will make exercising so fun, you'll lose weight in no time." "join our gym, we make exercising so fun so that you can fulfill your New Year's resolution."
post #4535 of 7006
post #4536 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

a lot of people would differ with you, including Apple with Siri, Google, etc. for me, voice is golden. It means I don't have to turn on the controller just to pause a Netflix movie. you know how much people want voice? they're willing to tolerate the nascent abilities of things like Siri because they see where things are going.
I'm curious what the usage statistics are on Siri. It definitely got a lot of initial buzz, but after that early excitement, it seems to have become a specifically hands-free thing for driving. I could easily be wrong, but I just don't see much use for it in the home.
post #4537 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

dude, no one is a miracle worker. the fat lazy guy will always be a fat lazy guy... tongue.gif

all the exercise companies know this. "our product will make exercising so fun, you'll lose weight in no time." "join our gym, we make exercising so fun so that you can fulfill your New Year's resolution."

I didn't make myself very clear. Because a sharp eye like yours missed completely where I was going with that. I was implying that when they make Kinect work right for the guy sitting down instead of jumping around and yelling..it will be on its way to major success. That means using it as HUD and controller supplements with holographic imaging and perhaps other emerging technology. That imaging could be in an entirely new kind of controller with a holo-keypad or any number of variants. My point is...the sky is the limit for them, if they don't limit utility to just the Wii crowd. They could use this technology and creative programming to revolutionize workout routines at health clubs. And link the routines to home based devices and equipment. People could use it to link their workout routines to actual formation of stationary racing and endurance circuits (for example). That is what I was eluding too. I also think IllumiRoom is part of a similar vision they have with Kinect. When they start doing that kind of stuff with Kinect...I will become a huge fan. And I also think the Kinect Fit fans of today that you alluded too will quickly move to the more intense content.

I don't really think Kinect should even be about making exercise and games more "Fun". It should be about making them more intense, competitive and absorbing. FPS games would also benefit terrrifically from that kind of approach IMO. We will always want to sit while we play them. It has nothing to do with being fat or lazy. Just about shaping it to the usage behavior of the native markets.
post #4538 of 7006
it wasn't about addressing your point.

it was about making a joke about how fat and lazy a lot of gamers are. like making a joke that people made about remote controls and how they were too fat and lazy to go to the TV.
post #4539 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

it wasn't about addressing your point.

it was about making a joke about how fat and lazy a lot of gamers are. like making a joke that people made about remote controls and how they were too fat and lazy to go to the TV.

I thought that was where you were. But I wasn't sure. I just wanted to be sure...and that others knew exactly what I meant. I am "portly and proud" myself. But not lazy. Betcha I could still nail you in Mountain Biking. smile.gif Even though I despise the idea of playing a game like Mass Effect or Fable by hopping around and yelling like an idiot in my home. I concede that many others like it. The old gal of 44 years would truly have me commited at that point.

You know what...I have been on this Videogame journey since the very beginning...before MS, Apple and Nintendo existed. And SONY was just a post WW2 MacArthur Plan electronic investment by Standard Oil of New York.eek.gif And I still think the most exciting time for me was playing Space Invaders in Holiday Inns while I was traveling on the road. If I was a kid today...I think What would excite me most would be Oculus Rift married to my Nintendo WiiU, or XBox Durango if I was a teen. But since I am up there in years...I am more excited about pairing it with my PC and XBox 360 (replaying the library).
post #4540 of 7006
You were born before 1889!? I see, then I can only say one thing... THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!
post #4541 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I thought that was where you were. But I wasn't sure. I just wanted to be sure...and that others knew exactly what I meant. I am "portly and proud" myself. But not lazy. Betcha I could still nail you in Mountain Biking. smile.gif

doubt it. I swim a mile nightly (the joys of living in southern California). I rule on my Cannondale... smile.gif
post #4542 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I'm curious what the usage statistics are on Siri. It definitely got a lot of initial buzz, but after that early excitement, it seems to have become a specifically hands-free thing for driving. I could easily be wrong, but I just don't see much use for it in the home.

actually, Arstechnica just recently did a poll of their readers since there are very strong rumors that Siri is being added to OS X... now, Ars has a very specific population demographic so it really can't be extrapolated to the general population, but it does have a lot of Apple fans.

52% of you said you would use Siri or at least give it a shot if it were to appear in a future version of OS X.
About 9% of you said you were unsure (don't worry, Siri can't bite you),
while just over 10% of you said you wouldn't use Siri on OS X due to your bad experiences on iOS.
Almost a third—about 27.6%—said you're just plain not the type to want to speak to your computer.

here was one of the posts to the article which just happened to mention the Kinect: "But maybe Siri could be used to apply to other things, like Ryoshi's suggestion: "Forget computers, I want something like Siri for my entertainment setup. Kinect seems to be close to what I want, but I don't really want to buy an Xbox 360 for a single peripheral."
post #4543 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

doubt it. I swim a mile nightly (the joys of living in southern California). I rule on my Cannondale... smile.gif

I am enduring the Woes of winter in New England. But when spring comes...I am the terror of the hills and valleys on my good old Yeti.wink.gif
post #4544 of 7006
Read a recent rumor that supposedly the next xbox's controller will have a built-in Kinect sensor which IF true, could end up being a brilliant idea and quite useful in core games.That is if developers put in full effort and utilize Kinect to the very best of its abilities.We shall see.
post #4545 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

It SOLD a lot, but it hasn't "caught on". It is the Wii Fit of the 360, a peripheral that was hot, got purchased, and now has an inch of dust on it, in 95% of its owners homes. As much as these moronic companies want to force motion controls onto us, they are ignoring the fact that nobody really wants it. All this malarkey is just pushing me more towards Sony and more towards PC gaming, which I find I am doing a lot more of anyway.[/quote

Edited by CoreGamer30 - 2/15/13 at 1:25am
post #4546 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Xbox founder: Apple TV gaming could ‘simply kill PlayStation, Wii U and Xbox’
By Brad Reed | BGR News –

Xbox DashboardThe Xbox is one of the best things that Microsoft (MSFT) has going for it right now, but one of the console’s founding engineers thinks the company is in grave danger of getting its hide handed to it by Apple (AAPL)… again. Nat Brown, a former Microsoft engineer who worked at the company until 1999 and who was one of the founders of the Xbox project, has written a long post on his personal blog making the case that Microsoft has only been winning the console wars over the past couple of years because Sony (SNE) and Nintendo (NTDOY) have been screwing up so badly. He also tears apart the company’s strategy for allowing independent game developers to create games for the platform, saying that the process for developing and distributing games on the console is far too cumbersome.

“Xbox’s primary critical problem is the lack of a functional and growing platform ecosystem for small developers to sell digitally-/network-distributed (non-disc) content through to the installed base of Xbox customers, period,” he writes, while detailing how Microsoft has thrown up all sorts of red tape to prevent small gaming developers from easily selling their games on the Xbox platform. “Microsoft, you are idiotic to have ceded not just indie game developers but also a generation of loyal kids and teens to making games for other people’s mobile devices.”

Brown wishes that Microsoft had the foresight to adopt the model for game and app distribution that iOS and Android have used to create enormous mobile gaming ecosystems and made fortunes for formerly unknown gaming companies such as Rovio. And to make things worse, Brown thinks that Apple could make a big move into the gaming sphere if it adding a gaming ecosystem to its Apple TV platform that made it just as easy to develop independent games for the big screen as it is to develop games for the iPad.

“Apple, if it chooses to do so, will simply kill PlayStation, Wii U and Xbox by introducing an open 30%-cut app/game ecosystem for Apple TV,” he writes. “I already make a lot of money on iOS — I will be the first to write apps for Apple TV when I can, and I know I’ll make money. I would for Xbox if I could and I knew I would make money.”

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-founder-apple-tv-gaming-could-simply-kill-181039706.html

The writer of this article is absolutely clueless as Apple released a console in the 1990's called Pippin and it got thrashed by Nintendo and Sega with utter ease.IF Apple were to release another console, it'd also get demolished with ease by Playstation and Xbox.He intentionally ignores the fact that XBLA has been very nice to indie and well known dev's where games like Trine, Trials, Mark of The Ninja, Limbo etc all did quite well in terms of postive praise, reception and profit.
Edited by CoreGamer30 - 2/15/13 at 1:38am
post #4547 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

I'm not sure they go that far. There may be some overlap on 360/720 games in the early going, but I suspect that as long as Sony does not go in that direction, all the games will be on PS4, as only the ignorant and the retarded will purchase a 720. The backlash will be swift and violent. It's the early adopters who will be the most knowledgeable about these systems. They are the evangelists. It is one thing to be in a situation like Nintendo is with Wii U, where there simply is no buzz about your system and people either don't know it exists or don't care. It's another thing entirely to piss off the people who would have told everyone else how awesome your new machine is. If these rumors are true, they better have a KILLER gimmick.


That is an incredibly ignorant comment to make and find it naive of you to truly believe that "all of the games" will be on PS4 as if the Next Xbox isn't getting any games at all.Just for your information, over the past 2 years or so, MS has been steadily building a stable of new 1st and 2 party developer studios in preparation for next-gen as they are going to introduce new ip's just like they did during this console generation.Also, PS4 will have its own gimmick with a touchscreen on its controller along with having built-in dual camera's for a Kinect like device.Lastly, it seems that some of you are really wanting the next Xbox to be a crappy console and based on the OG Xbox and 360, Durango is set to be a great console to own just like the PS4 will be..
post #4548 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post

As much as people poo poo Kinect, I don't mind it and enjoy using it from time to time. I don't think MS intends to make anyone use it the way it's used now. I think they are betting that if it's packed in with every system, the developers will find innovative ways to include it in their games. Part of the problem is that most of us in the first adopter's club would rather close that 50% RAW performance gap with PS4 than have an all new kinect included with our system. We'll take a high level GPU any day over kinect, particularly when most of us already have kinect.

However the additional problems of always online and no used games make this a non starter. As always, the caveat is how Sony treats these issues.[/quote

That 50% raw performance comment is pure BS seeing as the leaked Durango specs are about a year old and based on Alpha kits which are not representative of the power that will be in the Final Developement Kits.Also, none of you guys have stopped to think that the 1.2 teraflops of the Durango GPU could be in double precision mode which Ati's gpu's definitely have.I believe MS has been intentionally letting these leaks out to make Sony and many of the Xbox haters naively assume that the next Xbox is going to be a weak console in comparison to PS4.Remember that the Xbox platform has always been known for having powerful HW and Xbox Live and that will not change for the next-generation.Furthermore, MS has talked alot to Crytek and Epic in regards to what kind of capabilities they'd want in Durango.We also cannot ignore the fact that the OG Xbox was primarily designed by the most influential developers and programmers such as John Carmack and it is why it thoroughly spanked the PS2 in overall power,despite the PS2 having more FLOPS capabilities..
post #4549 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreGamer30 View Post

That is an incredibly ignorant comment to make and find it naive of you to truly believe that "all of the games" will be on PS4 as if the Next Xbox isn't getting any games at all.Just for your information, over the past 2 years or so, MS has been steadily building a stable of new 1st and 2 party developer studios in preparation for next-gen as they are going to introduce new ip's just like they did during this console generation.Also, PS4 will have its own gimmick with a touchscreen on its controller along with having built-in dual camera's for a Kinect like device.Lastly, it seems that some of you are really wanting the next Xbox to be a crappy console and based on the OG Xbox and 360, Durango is set to be a great console to own just like the PS4 will be..

Apparently someone called xbox public relations to come join the thread. It's great that you find my comment ignorant and naive. However, it seems that those opinions mostly apply to you. I am an xbox gamer. I have a PS3. I own Metal Gear, FF13 and Demon's souls for it and I have not played more than 2 hours of any of them. My PS3 is a blu ray player. I prefer to remain an xbox gamer, but if the rumors are accurate, they are going down a path that would force me to go with PS4 (assuming Sony stays off that path). My highly reasoned argument is simply that Microsoft will lose it's lead platform status and that most games will appear on PS4 as a result of banning used games, which will likely lead stores like gamestop to simply not stock the nextbox and shift support to PS4. Of course, I am speculating and all of that could come to fruition or it could all turn out to be garbage but that is my speculation base on what I have heard.
post #4550 of 7006
Quote:
That 50% raw performance comment is pure BS seeing as the leaked Durango specs are about a year old and based on Alpha kits which are not representative of the power that will be in the Final Developement Kits.Also, none of you guys have stopped to think that the 1.2 teraflops of the Durango GPU could be in double precision mode which Ati's gpu's definitely have.I believe MS has been intentionally letting these leaks out to make Sony and many of the Xbox haters naively assume that the next Xbox is going to be a weak console in comparison to PS4.Remember that the Xbox platform has always been known for having powerful HW and Xbox Live and that will not change for the next-generation.Furthermore, MS has talked alot to Crytek and Epic in regards to what kind of capabilities they'd want in Durango.We also cannot ignore the fact that the OG Xbox was primarily designed by the most influential developers and programmers such as John Carmack and it is why it thoroughly spanked the PS2 in overall power,despite the PS2 having more FLOPS capabilities..

We all know that the Durango specs are older and are possibly different now. We are simply speculating on the available information. If MS updates Durango to better specs, I would certainly welcome that news. As far as the GPU is concerned, The Durango GPU and the PS4 GPU are being made by the same company so, one would expect similar performance abilities except for the fact that the PS4 GPU is 50% more powerful. That is just the fact of the hardware as we currently understand it. Of course, our current understanding may not be what ends up being shipped. That is why we are speculating based on rumors and leaks.
post #4551 of 7006
I'm sure stores won't want to make millions from the new xbox games because they aren't allowing used games to be played. rolleyes.gif
post #4552 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

I'm sure stores won't want to make millions from the new xbox games because they aren't allowing used games to be played. rolleyes.gif

Stores like Gamestop actually don't make much money off of new titles, it is the used titles where their margins are in some cases around 50%. It is a moot point though, Gamestop is gonna sell the physical media for both Microsoft and Sony's next console, used games allowed or not.
post #4553 of 7006
I know we have all kicked this can down the road before. But within the context of the discussion over the past 3 pages it is quite relevant.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/14/isp-data-caps-in-the-era-of-downloadable-games

IMO the entire "always on" internet connection...DD only inevitability?...Zero Backwards compatibility...and potential elimination of used game options is a power grab of unprecedented proportions if Console makers actually proceed that way in NextGen. As many of you said before...in many different ways...they could literally doom themselves by offering us nothing but a complete package of negatives, positioned as the future and next generation. What a pile of crap if this actually materializes this way. Those consoles have very little appeal for someone who only wants to play AAA games in single player or off line co-op/multiplayer mode. To my eyes MS and Sony to a lesser extent are attempting to force gamers through a bloated multimedia hourglass just to pick our pockets with apps and restrictions that don't matter to gamers. Why should I have to pay Verizon or MS one cent more (data cap theft) to download a game that can and should easily fit on DVDs or Blu-Ray? I concede that many people want download only. Godspeed to them. But I sure don't want to become enslaved to a system of unregulated price increases from ISPs just to play a d.a.m.n game. And trust me on this one...the politicians will not help us on this...you think? Calling your Senator as the article suggests is equivalent to asking the ISP itself to give you a hand. They own the politicians, lock...stock...and barrel. I found the implications of the above article to be toxic to gamers of all types but the rich. If the future of gaming is DD only...with unscrupulous companies peeking and spying on my every move and action through the console...I'll just cut the cord to the console and go retro.

These alleged draconian moves could actually explode the used game/console/mod retro market. Until keen youg entrepreneurs spot the opportunity and give us just game consoles again. That are focused 100% on playing owning and trading games.
post #4554 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

I'm sure stores won't want to make millions from the new xbox games because they aren't allowing used games to be played. rolleyes.gif

Retailers like Best Buy and Gamestop don't make much on selling a console. The money comes from selling the games. However, it is not a big margin and, in gamestop's case, their main profit comes from used games. If xbox did not play used games but PS4 did, there would not be much of a reason for Gamestop to clog up shelf space with nextbox stuff. It would be very tempting for them to go all PS4 and Wii U.
post #4555 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I know we have all kicked this can down the road before. But within the context of the discussion over the past 3 pages it is quite relevant.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/14/isp-data-caps-in-the-era-of-downloadable-games

IMO the entire "always on" internet connection...DD only inevitability?...Zero Backwards compatibility...and potential elimination of used game options is a power grab of unprecedented proportions if Console makers actually proceed that way in NextGen. As many of you said before...in many different ways...they could literally doom themselves by offering us nothing but a complete package of negatives, positioned as the future and next generation. What a pile of crap if this actually materializes this way. Those consoles have very little appeal for someone who only wants to play AAA games in single player or off line co-op/multiplayer mode. To my eyes MS and Sony to a lesser extent are attempting to force gamers through a bloated multimedia hourglass just to pick our pockets with apps and restrictions that don't matter to gamers. Why should I have to pay Verizon or MS one cent more (data cap theft) to download a game that can and should easily fit on DVDs or Blu-Ray? I concede that many people want download only. Godspeed to them. But I sure don't want to become enslaved to a system of unregulated price increases from ISPs just to play a d.a.m.n game. And trust me on this one...the politicians will not help us on this...you think? Calling your Senator as the article suggests is equivalent to asking the ISP itself to give you a hand. They own the politicians, lock...stock...and barrel. I found the implications of the above article to be toxic to gamers of all types but the rich. If the future of gaming is DD only...with unscrupulous companies peeking and spying on my every move and action through the console...I'll just cut the cord to the console and go retro.

These alleged draconian moves could actually explode the used game/console/mod retro market. Until keen youg entrepreneurs spot the opportunity and give us just game consoles again. That are focused 100% on playing owning and trading games.

Yes. Can you imagine the day where you need to download that $60 30GB game that is going to explode your data limit? People are already feeling this with netflix and other streaming video. Games will be insane in this scenario.
post #4556 of 7006
Gamestop sold over a million copies of Black Ops 2 at the Midnight launch. Say half were Xbox that's 500,000. Even if they only make $2 per copy that a million bucks just from launch night.
post #4557 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

Gamestop sold over a million copies of Black Ops 2 at the Midnight launch. Say half were Xbox that's 500,000. Even if they only make $2 per copy that a million bucks just from launch night.

Which, when you consider their operating costs across the chain, is nothing.
post #4558 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

Gamestop sold over a million copies of Black Ops 2 at the Midnight launch. Say half were Xbox that's 500,000. Even if they only make $2 per copy that a million bucks just from launch night.

And how much was the electricity bill for all those stores? Does a million dollars cover the extended electricity use from that night? smile.gif My point is that you are correct, they WILL sell the new consoles games, that is a given, but they don't make enough money to sustain their business model, on new games alone.
post #4559 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

And how much was the electricity bill for all those stores? Does a million dollars cover the extended electricity use from that night? smile.gif My point is that you are correct, they WILL sell the new consoles games, that is a given, but they don't make enough money to sustain their business model, on new games alone.

this ^^ gamestop will be just like GAME overseas and slowly shut down if there are no used games, i have a relative that manages a gamestop and most of the profit come from used games, he said they make pretty much nothing on new games/consoles..
post #4560 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

And how much was the electricity bill for all those stores? Does a million dollars cover the extended electricity use from that night? smile.gifMy point is that you are correct, they WILL sell the new consoles games, that is a given, but they don't make enough money to sustain their business model, on new games alone.

This is a prime example of a dog (console makers) eating its way to its own a.s.s.hole...if any of this negative press materializes. When the Gamestops and BestBuys of the world die. So does a big slice of the game industry itself. Does anyone really think WalMart, Target, Costco, BJ's Wholesale will take the lead on New game technology introductions? I'll answer that question. NO!...No...no! That's not what they do. They are second tiier high volume channels. They want manufacturers to create the demand. And they will lowball the prices and move the goods after demand has been established. MS and Sony have obviously accelerated the level of leaks...winks and nods in the media, to guage the level of hostility to these divisive strategies. IMO they better do some real hard core market research with their XBox 360 and PS3 user bases before heading too far down the raod to the dark side. All they have to do is take a poll from us on XBL and PSN and they will have the answers to whether NextGen will be boom or bust. Heck...they can even throw a lot of bogus stuff in the on-line survey to throw us off and disrupt competition. But they seriously need to ask their current install base whether they will upgrade and when before doing any of this stuff. MS and Sony could be sitting just where Nintendo is right now...at the end of 2014. Staring at a bunch of unsold inventory at retail...Accelerating demand for itheir discontinued/deemphasized models...and consumers looking elsewhere for better options.

Didn't think I'd say this. But...if MS/Sony speculation holds true to form...Nintendo could win the next round too. Heckyl and Jeckyl just might chase a lot of folks over to WiiU.
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