Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 155  

Not directing at you, mboojigga. And I don't see how they can change the specs this late in the cycle. They know they can't delay the console, so that won't happen. And I don't think not seeing the actual box is a bad thing. Why show everything right now? They showed us what was inside of it, what it can do with some amazing looking games and cool tech demos, and gave us a release window. The thing that no one is talking about is the presentation with all the developers gushing about the system. It really sounds like Sony went out of their way to get input from devs so they could make a maching that they would love to make games on, and that will go a long way next gen. This gen, the PS3 was a mess to develop on for a lot of studios, but it doesn't look like that will be a problem next gen.

I think the fact that no box was shown indicates that only certain specs were locked down and that they intentionally left themselves some room to adjust to whatever MS was doing. I am hoping MS did the same thing.

I still don't get what the big deal about this is. They showed games running on the hardware in real time. Do people really think the console is vapor? The shape of the physical console is like the least important thing. I'd have been more concerned if they didnt show the controller.

Anyway, the company line on it is "we have to save something for e3". Last night's show showed more games and gameplay than I've ever seen them show at e3.....so they're hardly holding back.

I have seen nothing that would show me the PS4 is difficult to develop for, but there were a lot of devs gushing about the Vita when it was announced. That is not really helping the Vita now.

Hmm, pretty sure I have not said anything negative towards the PS4, or anything to diminish the conole...

No fanboy here, I actually own a Wii, PS3 and a 360. Just a fanboy of games, if anything...

As far as Sony is concerned, I would not have expected them to do much differently than what they showed last night. They gave us enough hard info to get the geeks excited and create a wave of buz/hype that only a Megaton Microsoft announcement could hope to contain. They have also managed to set the baseline for Next Gen RAM at 8GB. This says to me, that developers are going to be working with the high RAM configurations in mind, irrespective of which console (PS4 or Durango) is the lead platform. That is bad news for Nintendo, because with the RAM disparity, any down ports will be significantly crippled.

Normally its preferred to announce 2nd as you have time to tweak your presentation and play up your system in direct answer to whatever came ahead of you. However, in this particular case Sony hit so hard it's going to be remarkably difficult for MS to trounce it. I think a 'on par' performance would be quite the accomplishment at this point.

Doesn't diminish my want to hear what MS has to say when its their turn, but the bar is certainly set high.

Getcha popcorn.

Yep. And there's going to be quite some time where next gen = PS4. All those third party games they showed may as well be de facto exclusives.

Not completely accurate.Both MS and Sony have obviously been leaking specs and monitoring responses and speculation from all of the technical gaming sites to gauge reactions and target their upgrades & changes. All Sony did in the announcement was up the ante. They can peel back or accelerate design, function and form based on what MS does. And vice versa for MS. For all we know MS could announce 2-3 new consoles in their announcement window. All compatible with each other and with the same games. Meaning an "Uber" $700-$800 balls to the walls top end model that could compete with anything a dev throws at it...and match up with the highest end gamingPC. A $300-$400 middle tier model...which is pretty much the rumored spec...that could handle any game now under consideration...and compete with the announced PS 4. And finally a top drawer DD only cable box version dedicated 100% for that delivery market. They would all play the same games. But the top tier model would allow them the flexibility to continuosly upgrade internal components without incurring the massive expense of relaunching the brand. And purchasers of the top tier Durango would gleefully buy any new component upgrade (GPU, APU, memory, etc) to get the very best from any new game. I'm not suggesting they will actually do this. But they could. And it would blow Sony's announcement away...by leaving the option out there, to always be in a position to one up them in the marketplace. It would also put a product in the marketplace that is priced at a level that allows them to continuosly tinker and improve without jeopardizing their core position. JMO.

Not showing the actual console, no price or release date mentioned. Is Sony rushing the console announcement to beat MS or are they playing their cards close to the vest?

Is there any idea of when MS is announcing anything? I know there is the E3 countdown clock on Major Nelson's blog but I think that went up before Sony set up last night's reveal.

I still want to see what MS accounces, but if they are going to focus on Kinect on all the apps they are going to push instead of games, you know the things we buy consoles for, then they will drop off my day one buy list.

According to Jack Trenton the console is still in development

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/21/4013492/sony-ceo-jack-tretton-says-ps4-final-specs-design-still-in-development

That be true of anything shown by MS and Sony atm. PC dev kits with like hardware is all they'll have untill manufacturing ramps up in about 3-4 months. First batch being the final dev kits in actual retail hardware.

Both new systems are X86 anyways. Not much to be weary of, especially since more power can be pulled from them than a comparable PC because they're closed systems.

Yep, and the size of the OS makes me believe they're going in different directions. Given the quoted size of the MS OS it would seem they're heading in the direction of extending their "ecosystem" - the box is a do many things & gaming. Lighter OS says does gaming & then some other stuff.

Sony hasn't had an A game in a decade, if it weren't for the Govt propping them up they wouldn't even be in business.

Sony did announce a nice level of power increase...........but specs don't really matter as much as what they do with it or is it enough. Both are likely to do about the same from a end view (not going to be a Wii vs PS3/Xbox level of difference)..........it will come down to overall interaction, what the total package brings to the table. Will be another POS PSN vs Live? Only time will tell.

the 8GB must have been a last-minute knee-jerk reaction to rumors that the next Xbox had 8 GB. because the PS4 development kit only has 8GB. you can't have a development kit that has the same RAM as the console! you need RAM and other things in order to run the IDE. how do you create a virtual simulation of your program that uses 8GB but your development kit only has 8GB? page it off the hard drive? no way. that would be a very poor development kit.

there are also rumors that there are some 16 GB development kits out there. a 16 GB dev kit would definitely be in-line with an 8 GB final platform (a 12GB dev kit would also work as the IDE doesn't need that much RAM). so it seems very strange to have some 8 GB development kits and some 16 GB dev kits. so it'd be my guess that the 16 GB kits were released lately to replace the 8 GB kits as Sony switched from an 4GB console to an 8GB console.

this is where competition is a good thing. but switching from 4 GB to 8 GB GDDR5 is a pricey switch. 8GB of GDDR5 on the PC side of things is $150+.

While system specs are always nice, what really determines whether I like a system or not are the controllers. For whatever reason I can not get used to any of the Sony controllers. Xbox controllers have always felt natural to me over the Playstation controllers. Hell even some of the Nintendo controllers were pretty decent I thought. The other thing is most everyone I play with is planning on getting the new Xbox regardless if it is under powered against the PS4. With that factor Nextbox is what I will most likely be picking up. I'll say I have no intentions of getting a PS4 right away, but a year or two after the new ones come out and I may pick up a second gaming system then.. Then again my Son may want one, and that can be a "Gift" to him at some point

All my friends said they would only get the Kinectbox, but after seeing the presentation last night are throwing around the idea of at least getting both consoles because they like what Sony is doing.

I would think cost would be much less a factor than you are suggesting. Both companies(MS & Sony) will hard negotiate a low average cost on that part with a floating price index. Meaning they will start with a future valued cost basis amortized over a lifecycle of 5-7 years. And will have capability to lower the cost annually based on favorable market conditions. As you said...competition is good for us on the console side. But we will take it in the shorts in Parts cost on the PC side. As the part producer will just average their "loss lead" from the console side and add it into their profit on the consumer parts side (a much bigger market). If they have to just tinker and tweak a few meaningless things...and call it GDDR6 to justify higher maintained margins...so be it.

The Xbox 360 dev kit did not bump up the RAM to 1GB until 2009. So carry on with your expert analysis.

http://gizmodo.com/xbox-360-dev-kit/

tgable, you really should check your fanboyism at the door. you've never worked with an IDE before, have you? you can't run an operating system and an IDE and have a simulated environment in the same amount of RAM as the final product. the reason the 360 development kit was upgraded was precisely for this reason. before the upgrade, developers had to be very creative with their development process to work around the problems. the first 360 games did not use the full RAM for this very reason. because you don't have enough RAM to can't run the IDE and the debugging tools and the simulated environment. before you go and criticize, you should educate yourself. it doesn't take long to learn some basic programming. you can download a free IDE like Visual Studio and write a basic "Hello, World!" app.

Isn't this a little like the kettle calling the pot black?

Yeah, accoding to this article by digital foundry, some developers didn't even know about the ram upgrade. Doesn't make it any less awesome though.

how is common sense not getting through to people? it is not magic to write a program. developing for a console is no different than developing for any other computing platform. If you have an 8 GB development kit. once you load your development tools, you no longer have 8 GB available for your program. Write a program that uses 8 GB on a 7GB system. and then come back and tell me what happens to the program when you try to debug/run it. this isn't rocket science people. a console is not a magical device. in the end, it's a number cruncher that has to follow the same rules of computers.

I was mainly talking about you telling someone to check their fanboyism at the door. Who cares why they upped it to 8 gb, in the end we all win.

yes, all my comment was about how they upgraded the RAM at the last second. but tgable felt like he had to defend the decision and prove that the comment was "wrong". somehow people don't accept reality of how things work.

Are these the same friends that suffered a grave buttockular injury after seeing the presentation last night?

I see many people saying that Sony "hit it out of the park" last night. Just curious about the price of admission, for said park... If the ticket costs $600, that home run just turned into a ground rule double...

guy that claimed he had 720 dev. kit raided by police
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/next-gen-xbox-leaker-superdae-raided-by-police

I don't think MS will or needs to upgrade the nextbox's rumored specs (when has the most powerful console ever won the sales race?). People who post on gaming forums might care, but for the average consumer, slightly better performance isn't going to be the deciding factor in console choice (we're not talking Wii U current gen specs here).

MS will likely come in at a lower price point, offer BC and call it a day. Kinect has been a relative success, and has expanded the 360's audience by pulling in the casual gamer -- my guess is that they continue with this strategy by focusing on being a general purpose STB. Move, on the other hand, has been a relative failure (afaik), and Sony seems to be going back to the basics by targeting the core gamer (initially anyways). Though developers and hardcore gamers are happy with the decision, having 8 GB of GDDR5 is going to add significant cost to the PS4 and will allow MS to undercut Sony by a significant margin.

So you were wrong and your solution is name calling? Do you want to address your assertion about dev kits and RAM or just babble about IDEs?


Now you are lying. You made a claim that the RAM had to be a last minute change because dev kits have more RAM than the shipping unit. Your evidence was the 8GB in the PS4 dev kit. Yet the 360 dev kits had 512MB for five years before they bumped it up. So you were wrong. They develop the games on PCs. They don't sit around writing code on a dev console. My understanding is they use them for profiling, testing an bug hunting. And yes I understand what an IDE is, I write code for a living, I'm staring at KDevelop now on my Linux machine. Nothing sexy like games though, just engineering stuff.
Edited by tgable - 2/21/13 at 1:11pm

why in the world would i pay top dollar for the opportunity to shell out more money to upgrade my console? if i paid top dollar, i'd better as hell be futureproof for a good while.