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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 168  

post #5011 of 7006
I bought you guys the first alert about the next generation Playstation announcement.

And now Im happy to be the first to alert you about the next generation Xbox announcment. Happening May 21st!! Just 7 weeks from now!!!

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/8/4195954/microsoft-planning-xbox-event-for-may

Microsoft had originally been planning to unveil its next-generation Xbox details at an event in April, but The Verge has learned that the company has pushed this back to May. Windows watcher Paul Thurrott revealed recently that Microsoft is planning an Xbox event for May 21st, and we understand this date is accurate. This is the tentative date for a next-generation Xbox announcement, but Microsoft had originally planned an April 24th event.
post #5012 of 7006
It's an interesting read. I wonder how many suckers will go with the $300 subscription based model if it is true. I am hoping he is right in saying that Xbox will be focusing on games.
post #5013 of 7006
more rumors, nov. release date, 500 price or 300 subscription fee.. always on internet..
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/08/veteran-tech-blogger-spills-xbox-720-reveal-date-pricing-and-more
post #5014 of 7006
If the next Xbox requires and always on internet connection, I think it will fail compared to the PS4. I still know people that only have dial-up or no internet at all and they have a 360. I could care less either way, I just think there are a lot of people who will skip it if an internet connection is required. I know Paul Thurrott has inside connection with MS and I like reading his site but, I'll be really surprised if they drop the Xbox is the entertainment hub idea. They've worked so hard at that and now have such a great selection of apps and I hope they don't get rid of them.
post #5015 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

If the next Xbox requires and always on internet connection, I think it will fail compared to the PS4. I still know people that only have dial-up or no internet at all and they have a 360. I could care less either way, I just think there are a lot of people who will skip it if an internet connection is required. I know Paul Thurrott has inside connection with MS and I like reading his site but, I'll be really surprised if they drop the Xbox is the entertainment hub idea. They've worked so hard at that and now have such a great selection of apps and I hope they don't get rid of them.
Yeah, I think that was a misunderstanding. I am thinking that MS will "hopefully" focus solely on the games side of it now that they have the entertainment side of it down. All those options will still be there, but out of the gate they will want to talk about their games.
post #5016 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

It's an interesting read. I wonder how many suckers will go with the $300 subscription based model if it is true. I am hoping he is right in saying that Xbox will be focusing on games.

Well, we'd need to know more about the 'subscription' model. Subscription to what, exactly?
post #5017 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Well, we'd need to know more about the 'subscription' model. Subscription to what, exactly?
I'm guessing it will be like the 360's that sold for $99 and had a two year subscription to XBL.
post #5018 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I'm guessing it will be like the 360's that sold for $99 and had a two year subscription to XBL.

The thing about those models though, was that you had to pay $14.95 a month - so it comes out to a total cost of $460 - significantly higher than a non subsidized box. If you paid the $300 up front, you'd only pay $120 (or less) for two years of gold, total cost $420.

They didnt just use it as a way to get the initial cost down and have some insurance on recouping the subsidation, they took the opportunity to extract a few extra bucks out of you.

I have no doubt they'll try it again, but I think they were a little too greedy on that deal. It's one thing to shift the costs of the subsidation onto the user over time - I can probably get behind that. Its quite another to take the opportunity to squeeze people with a teaser price, only to screw them later.

I wonder what happens after those two years? Think they'll move you down to the lower monthly rates, or they keep you on $15 a month and hope you don't notice you're getting screwed? The mobile carriers do the latter.
post #5019 of 7006
i think the whole debate of "which xbox's are connected vs. which aren't" and assuming that will be the only customers MS will lose is oversimplifying it. That is assuming that there will not be customers like me (which there are many). What i mean is....
I didn't own the xbox1 and loved PS2, this generation i liked the 360 better so i that is what i spent 90% of my time playing, but i am not a fanboy so i don't care if the next system i own is made by Walmart, i will just buy the system that works best for me. And if the "used games/ always on" rumors are true, then more than i will buy a ps4 and 90% of my time will be spent playing that. So just to assume that MS will only lose the 25% (or whatever other number people find) of people not connected to the internet is just not the case. There are a lot of consumers like me, that loved the SNES, loved the PS2, loved the 360, so we will buy whatever console works best (for us) regardless of what we bought the previous generation.
post #5020 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

i think the whole debate of "which xbox's are connected vs. which aren't" and assuming that will be the only customers MS will lose is oversimplifying it. That is assuming that there will not be customers like me (which there are many). What i mean is....
I didn't own the xbox1 and loved PS2, this generation i liked the 360 better so i that is what i spent 90% of my time playing, but i am not a fanboy so i don't care if the next system i own is made by Walmart, i will just buy the system that works best for me. And if the "used games/ always on" rumors are true, then more than i will buy a ps4 and 90% of my time will be spent playing that. So just to assume that MS will only lose the 25% (or whatever other number people find) of people not connected to the internet is just not the case. There are a lot of consumers like me, that loved the SNES, loved the PS2, loved the 360, so we will buy whatever console works best (for us) regardless of what we bought the previous generation.

Just be careful in assuming that Sony is going to do anything different than MS here. They said "you can take it offline" and referenced that they know some people are anti social. They didnt say "we know some people have unreliable net connections, so the PS4 never has to be connected and you can play everything offline, just like the PS3."

And then there's this:
Quote:
Speaking at a roundtable session with the press attended by Ars Technica, Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."

So you can count on online game activation for many, if not most games on the PS4. Which considerably muddies the water on used games. And given that all we've got from MS right now is rumors, the reality might be much closer to what Sony is proposing.
post #5021 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Just be careful in assuming that Sony is going to do anything different than MS here. They said "you can take it offline" and referenced that they know some people are anti social. They didnt say "we know some people have unreliable net connections, so the PS4 never has to be connected and you can play everything offline, just like the PS3."

And then there's this:
So you can count on online game activation for many, if not most games on the PS4. Which considerably muddies the water on used games. And given that all we've got from MS right now is rumors, the reality might be much closer to what Sony is proposing.

Microsoft or Sony can change their plans, but nobody is going to discuss something that has never been reported. All reports on the durango have been always connected, with the latest, on the day Orth lost it, saying you had 3 minutes to reconnect.

Sony did however just tell Blizzard "and when we talked to Sony, there is a significant amount of consoles that are not connected to the internet. Because of that we felt the best way to bring the Diablo experience to all the console players was to offer an offline mode"

I certainly hope MS doesn't do it and Sony may leave it up to publishers to do on their own, but at this point you are writing your own narrative.
post #5022 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The thing about those models though, was that you had to pay $14.95 a month - so it comes out to a total cost of $460 - significantly higher than a non subsidized box. If you paid the $300 up front, you'd only pay $120 (or less) for two years of gold, total cost $420.

They didnt just use it as a way to get the initial cost down and have some insurance on recouping the subsidation, they took the opportunity to extract a few extra bucks out of you.

I have no doubt they'll try it again, but I think they were a little too greedy on that deal. It's one thing to shift the costs of the subsidation onto the user over time - I can probably get behind that. Its quite another to take the opportunity to squeeze people with a teaser price, only to screw them later.

I wonder what happens after those two years? Think they'll move you down to the lower monthly rates, or they keep you on $15 a month and hope you don't notice you're getting screwed? The mobile carriers do the latter.

I must have thought $15 bucks a month was so crazy that I blocked it out because I don't remember that at all. tongue.gif

If it's $300 but you have to be a Gold subscriber for the next two years I'd take that deal all day because I'm a Gold subscriber anyway. If it's $300 + $15 a month, that's a terrible deal.
post #5023 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

I must have thought $15 bucks a month was so crazy that I blocked it out because I don't remember that at all. tongue.gif

If it's $300 but you have to be a Gold subscriber for the next two years I'd take that deal all day because I'm a Gold subscriber anyway. If it's $300 + $15 a month, that's a terrible deal.

Yep. Although....if think about it, and imagine they're lending you $200 bucks for two years, the extra $40 is basically 10-12ish percent interest for those two years. Which is a lot less than most credit cards. I'd just hope when it comes to the nextbox, they're willing to eat a little bit more of that, especially if they're not going to sell the hardware at a loss.

I really do wonder what happens when the contract runs out though. That's the point where it could really turn exploitative.
post #5024 of 7006
It just sucks that we have to wait that long for an annoucement, and I don't think it is going to help anything. There are so many bad rumors right now about the nextbox, and waiting is just going to fan the flames on it.
post #5025 of 7006
I am hoping that MS is holding a late announcement because they want more bang for the buck and to reduce the amount of time that Sony would have to make adjustments following an announcement that blows everyone's mind. However, if they are just going to formally announce the rumors we have all been hearing about, it will be a disaster that no amount of rationalizing a decision to require "always-connected-to-function/no used games" can fix. The bottom line is that a high price point combined with the aforementioned "features" will doom the machine because it gives Early adopters (the most informed purchasers) every reason to buy PS4 instead. It's nice to have a strategy to be as profitable as you can on every box sold, but if people are not buying your box, you will be in bad shape.
Edited by Antiochus - 4/8/13 at 11:58am
post #5026 of 7006
post #5027 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/8/4195954/microsoft-planning-xbox-event-for-may

Verge is reporting May 21st...
You didn't see the link posted like 10 posts up?
post #5028 of 7006
no, I don't camp in this thread.
post #5029 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

You didn't see the link posted like 10 posts up?

He owes me royality money.
post #5030 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

He owes me royality money.

biggrin.gif

maybe you should sit by the mailbox for it... i swear. it's coming.
post #5031 of 7006
http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/08/bloomberg-durango-amd/

More news. Possible AMD x86 chip. Meaning no hardward backwards compatibility. Software emulation is still a possibility.
post #5032 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/08/bloomberg-durango-amd/

More news. Possible AMD x86 chip. Meaning no hardward backwards compatibility. Software emulation is still a possibility.

The SuperDAE leaks already confirmed that, same as PS4, so software emulation isn't a very viable option. Either hardware BC or no BC is their options, unless they can pull some magic with the 8 core AMD CPU.
post #5033 of 7006
If the rumors of a $99 360 are true BC is not going to be a concern. Even if it isn't true I don't think BC is as big of an issue as some like to say. Most consumers are not thinking about BC with a new system.
post #5034 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The SuperDAE leaks already confirmed that, same as PS4, so software emulation isn't a very viable option. Either hardware BC or no BC is their options, unless they can pull some magic with the 8 core AMD CPU.

There may be some chance of software since the CPU design isn't as wild as the cell, both GPUs are made by AMD and they're using the same edram + ddr3 setup.

Hardware BC is potentially much easier - it's just a single chip for 360 vs 2+ more chips and 2 extra types of memory on PS3. They could even use the 360 SoC as the low power chip that runs the background processes - although I dunno if they can get x86 and PPC to play nice sharing the same memory space. The older leaked documents did include the 360 chip for BC in the block diagram, the newer ones don't....so they were at least considering it at one point. Dev kits might not have any reference to it since its of absolutely no concern to someone making a nextbox game.
post #5035 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Well, we'd need to know more about the 'subscription' model. Subscription to what, exactly?
I agree. What does the subscription model get you? XBL and access to the Xbox Music. Hell what I would truly like to see MS do is offer a plan where they combine the music service and the video together. I have been using the Zune and music service since day one and love the unlimited downloads and 10 free tracks that I get with my plan. Now if they could add in movies for another $10 a month, I would ditch netflix and just have it all on one bill.

The other thing I wonder with the $300 and $500 is how the Xbox Live Family plan will work with the newer system. I know my son likes having his set of friends and I like having my own so it will be curious to see how the family plans get tied into all. As for the backwards compatibility not too big of a deal since I'll still have my 360, but it would have been nice to have it all playable on one system. I was hoping that all our XBL games can be good for the new system. I have too much money on Pinball FX2 to lose that game if the 360 disappears.
post #5036 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

If the rumors of a $99 360 are true BC is not going to be a concern. Even if it isn't true I don't think BC is as big of an issue as some like to say. Most consumers are not thinking about BC with a new system.

looks like the rumors of a $99 360 as the lower tier of the Xbox ecosystem is coming true. It's what I thought all along. That Microsoft had spent so much time building up the ecosystem that they wouldn't tear it down and start over. Have the next-gen Xbox fulfill the needs of the higher-end market while have the 360 fight against the AppleTV, Roku, Ouya, etc.

And it becomes truly an ecosystem if the rumors of 360 owners playing with next-gen owners comes true. Whether you buy for the 360 or the next-gen, it doesn't matter. still money kept in the ecosystem.


transcript from the Paul Thurrott episode (cannot vouch for the accuracy of the transcript):

"The next Xbox is code-named Durango. And we have talked for a while about this notion that there might be another version of the Xbox that was just aimed at entertainment—a non-gaming device. That device was code-named 'Yumo' and they're not making it. They may make one in the future, but it's not happening this year.

"So the new Xbox that comes out this year will just be the Xbox. And I mentioned before they're also going to sell a new Xbox 360 code-named 'Stingray' that will be $99. And you might look at that as two things: backwards compatibility, obviously, suggesting—I don't actually know this for a fact, but based on the fact that they're making one—I don't think that the new Xbox will play 360 games. But that I don't actually know, that I'm guessing. But, the other one is that, $99, that's a real coo price. And so we know that the Xbox 360 does Netflix, Hulu Plus, yada yada yada, and you can make the argument that's kind of a low cost entertainment device, too.

"Durango is going to be expensive [laughs], you know $500, $300 for the subscription, that kind of thing, but you know, Blu-ray, blah blah blah, but the thing that interest me, going back and looking at some of the stuff I got a long time ago, it actually says 'must be internet-connected to use' in the notes. And that's all I have, but it does say that.

[Is that a bad thing?]

"I don't know because I don't know what it means. You know, when you look at some of the stories that were coming out this week about, you know, I saw a headline that said something like 'Next Xbox could be okay without an internet connection for as long as 3 minutes' or something like that. I don't even know what that means, so for me, Xbox 360 is almost entirely an online experience. Most of the games I play are multiplayer, where you're playing against other people online. Or you're using it as an entertainment device when you're connected to a service like Netflix or Xbox video, so that is an internet-connected device. In this phrase, it says 'must be internet-connected to use', you know, that suggests that you can't even boot into the UI and play—I don't know, I don't know, I don't have one.

"Originally, they were going to announce this thing in April—April 24—now they're going to announce it May 21. We know there are events occuring this year where we're going to learn more about Durango.

[And it's a fourth quarter release, right?]

"Early November, yeah. E3 is going to occur. BUILD is going to occur in San Francisco in June when they're going to talk about the developer story because it's a Windows 8 device. It's going to have the same, or basically the same, developer tools and developer APIs and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot information to come, but I look at all this stuff that I've seen about Durango and I think, 'it's all positive.' I don't really see any bad news here at all. Like to me, everything I've seen about this is really positive. It's amazing to me that, based on like no information at all, everyone is like freaking out about everything. Aside from this online thing, by the way, the number one question I've gotten from people is, 'What does it look like?' Who gives a **** what it looks like?

"I've actually heard from, by the way not one or two people, several people who've said, 'based on what I've seen, Sony is going to blow them away.' Based on what you've seen? You've seen nothing. What are you talking about? No, but you've seen literally nothing from Microsoft.



"The problem Microsoft has has nothing to do with Sony or Nintendo anymore, it's Roku and AppleTV. The market for hardcore video games, the market of people will always buy the next Gears of War game, the next Halo game, the next Call of Duty game, it's fairly finite. It's a decent market, yada yada yada, it's not the market for tablets, it's not the market for smartphones.
post #5037 of 7006
$99 is still a bad value if it's designed to compete with Apple TV and Roku. You don't need a subscription to use theirs. Unless they plan to change that, which I highly doubt.
post #5038 of 7006
+1
post #5039 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

$99 is still a bad value if it's designed to compete with Apple TV and Roku. You don't need a subscription to use theirs. Unless they plan to change that, which I highly doubt.
Because Apple TV and roku can play 360 games....
post #5040 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

i think the whole debate of "which xbox's are connected vs. which aren't" and assuming that will be the only customers MS will lose is oversimplifying it. That is assuming that there will not be customers like me (which there are many). What i mean is....
I didn't own the xbox1 and loved PS2, this generation i liked the 360 better so i that is what i spent 90% of my time playing, but i am not a fanboy so i don't care if the next system i own is made by Walmart, i will just buy the system that works best for me. And if the "used games/ always on" rumors are true, then more than i will buy a ps4 and 90% of my time will be spent playing that. So just to assume that MS will only lose the 25% (or whatever other number people find) of people not connected to the internet is just not the case. There are a lot of consumers like me, that loved the SNES, loved the PS2, loved the 360, so we will buy whatever console works best (for us) regardless of what we bought the previous generation.

I bought both consoles this generation but buy games for PS3 mostly because I got tired of paying for Live. I have internet but am not interested in a system that must be connected to play.
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