or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › Xbox Area › Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 178  

post #5311 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post


The only reason I withhold that final point, is that there's still one massive bottleneck to design around in both cases - the HDD. For the life of me I still have no idea how they can properly utilize 8GB of ram off a mechanical HDD. That's enough to fit the entirety of skyrim in memory....twice, with change. Either we're looking at EPIC load times, or they're still dynamically streaming assets, in which case so much of that memory is just going to be used as a really fast cache - which is a total waste, its too expensive to use for that purpose. There's still a missing piece to the puzzle.

Cerny talked about a power-down state where only the memory drew power to keep things in memory. Sounds like the instant on/off of games with no booting, along with other tricks.

Also, No more memory bugs in Gamebryo engine games! woohoo!
post #5312 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

kool-aid does sound good... did they ever make any other flavors but cherry?

All types but my daughter is weird she mixes them cherry and watermelon. She is crazy like her daddy.
post #5313 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

alright, this is total BS. there is never ever close to 100% efficiency in any design in the history of computing. if you can wring out 80% efficiency, you've done an amazing job. AMD just magically fixed their Bobcat cores and all the designs that evolved from it? I don't think so.

Of course nothing is 100% efficient, but its unquestionably more efficient than the last gen.
Quote:
the last generation, all the consoles had in-order processors. why is that? because that means less silicon/transistors needed in order to achieve a lower cost. rather than dedicate precious resources toward making an out-of-order processor, they focused on providing the best power they could for the lowest cost they could.

That's cost efficiency though, something entirely different. It was a good choice at the time, they had SMT to get around it somewhat.
Quote:
you guys are still regurgitating statements by people who have an interest in propping up their designs. it doesn't seem like you really understand what these terms mean. every hardware designer thinks their design is perfect. that's just the way it goes.

I'm not regurgitating anything. I dont think they've ever mentioned out of order cores. Perfect? Of course not. But if you're not seeing the difference based on what we already know, you're not paying attention. That's fine, probably only a minority of us even care about this stuff, but don't just wave it away like its nonsense.
post #5314 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Cerny talked about a power-down state where only the memory drew power to keep things in memory. Sounds like the instant on/off of games with no booting, along with other tricks.

Yeah, it sounds like the same S3/STR power state PCs go into. I just hope it works well, cause if you try to put your PC into sleep while running a game, it rarely works right when you wake it back up. It'll keep you from having to reload the game every time, but its going to be like getting that close parking spot that you don't want to lose.
Quote:
Also, No more memory bugs in Gamebryo engine games! woohoo!

Now that's just wishful thinking. tongue.gif

I thought about it a bit....they'll probably start using a lot more procedurally generated assets to fill that memory up and get around the I/O bottlenecks. So imagine skyrim where every blade of grass or face is unique...that could definitely add some life to the world.
post #5315 of 7006
post #5316 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I'm not regurgitating anything. I dont think they've ever mentioned out of order cores. Perfect? Of course not. But if you're not seeing the difference based on what we already know, you're not paying attention. That's fine, probably only a minority of us even care about this stuff, but don't just wave it away like its nonsense.

umm... "out-of-order cores" is something that's been around forever. it's not something that needs to be mentioned because Intel and AMD processors have pretty much always been out-of-order processors since the days of the Pentium Pro and onward.

I'm not waving anything real away as nonsense. what I'm waving away is the regurgitation of statements by people of interest that are being passed off as definitive.

the bottom line is the next-gen consoles will produce great games because they have great hardware and they have great people and a great infrastructure to produce great things. however, overstating the power of the systems is a completely separate issue.
post #5317 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

umm... "out-of-order cores" is something that's been around forever. it's not something that needs to be mentioned because Intel and AMD processors have pretty much always been out-of-order processors since the days of the Pentium Pro and onward.

You really think I didnt know that? Come on, be serious. I mention it because current gen console CPUs didnt feature it, regardless of how long its been around. And I know you're not going to tell me OoO is less efficient. So I don't see what's so controversial about pointing out that the next gen will make better use of its own hardware.
post #5318 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Some new nuggets in here:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/26/4268782/next-xbox-drm-achievements-live
There are a lot of interesting things in there. The expanded achievements sound kind of cool, but they could also get out of hand. Plus, it sounds like they can penalize you for not playing one of their other games and making it so you can't get every acheivement for a game. I am still slightly worried about the continued always online, but hopefully it turn into a system where you are at least required to connect the first time for DRM purposes and then you aren't required after that. I say that, but all of my gaming is done while connected. I would just hate to lose the option to play something if my internet goes down.
post #5319 of 7006
Yeah, achievements are a really clever way to drive sales, but the cross game/platform stuff feels like a step too far. What's next, exclusive achievements if you preorder?

Even though Im kind of over them, what I really want them to do is give you some indication of how far along you are. Like if its 50 kills, show me how many I already have. If its something like kill 10 guys with one nade, show me the best I've done.
post #5320 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What's next, exclusive achievements if you preorder?

Oh man, when you say it outloud, can't you just feel it already happening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Even though Im kind of over them, what I really want them to do is give you some indication of how far along you are. Like if its 50 kills, show me how many I already have. If its something like kill 10 guys with one nade, show me the best I've done.

I love when games do this! I wish everyone bothered to do it, actually.
post #5321 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, achievements are a really clever way to drive sales, but the cross game/platform stuff feels like a step too far. What's next, exclusive achievements if you preorder?

Even though Im kind of over them, what I really want them to do is give you some indication of how far along you are. Like if its 50 kills, show me how many I already have. If its something like kill 10 guys with one nade, show me the best I've done.

Similar to like Halo 4 notifications of completion status of challenges but when you look at the individual achievement bar it shows something like 12/20 for completion.
post #5322 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Similar to like Halo 4 notifications of completion status of challenges but when you look at the individual achievement bar it shows something like 12/20 for completion.

Yep....except it should be built into the OS and mandatory. Stacked achievements, where you can keep getting achievements for 50, 100, 1000 kills etc....also pretty cool. But they want you to complete the game and go buy something else, not just keep playing the same one....so maybe wont happen.
post #5323 of 7006
this is how it's done in windows 8. if you play any of the microsoft games like taptiles or minesweeper or mahjong or whatever, there are daily, weekly, and monthly challenges. windows 8 also adds medals which are separate from achievements. however, I honestly can't tell the difference between medals versus achievements because they sound the same.

here's a medal for taptiles:



can you tell the difference with an achievement?



the daily challenges are a bit addictive. you have a calendar and week view in the game. what happens is you have 3 challenges a day. completing each challenge results in you collecting some coins. if you complete all the challenges for the day, you get an added bonus of additional coins on top of the coins from the challenges. now, you have the calendar view so you can go back any time to any day for that month. so it's not like if you skip out on a day, you're missing out. however, once the month rolls over, you can't go back to any of the challenges from the previous month.

these are on top of the normal game modes. so if you don't want to do any challenges and just want to play normally, you can.

now here's the thing... you can play any of these games offline. however, if you want to play the daily challenges, you have to be logged into your Xbox Live account. maybe that's where the rumor of the online connection came in.
Edited by onlysublime - 4/26/13 at 1:40pm
post #5324 of 7006
The achievement rumor sounds a lot like the Famestar Service they have for Full House Poker, World of Keifling, etc. The big change from the existing system would be the addition of achievements. If you are allowing publishers to essentially set up MMO like games you have to provide some added incentive for the player base. I played a lot of Mass Effect's 3 multiplayer it would have been nice to get achievements for some of those Challenges.
post #5325 of 7006
I am still excited for next gen, but I am loving all the games we have and the ones still to come. That is my main reason for not moving on right away.
post #5326 of 7006
The Illumiroom Demo looks interesting. Sorry if this has been posted before, but wit this many pages I do not remember seeing it.
post #5327 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutha_conDoin View Post

The Illumiroom Demo looks interesting. Sorry if this has been posted before, but wit this many pages I do not remember seeing it.

I love the concept...but man, that is so impractical on so many levels, I don't ever think it'll see the light of day, at least not in the home.
post #5328 of 7006
I would really need to see it in person. I just can't imagine it working that well in practice. I wonder how it outputs the video to the projector?

The other thing I wondered about, can you play kinect games with kinect behind you?
post #5329 of 7006
The Verge has a good written preview of the IllumiRoom project.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/29/4281228/microsoft-illumiroom-table-projector-for-next-xbox
post #5330 of 7006
There's a research paper attached to that preview that's worth reading if you really want to go in depth:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/illumiroom/IllumiRoom_CHI2013_BJones.pdf

Two really big problems stand out to me. The first, is if they're going to actually extend the game world onto the whole room, that's going to put a huge burden on the console/PC to render that. It doesn't need to be super high resolution, but nonetheless it would really drag performance/resolution of the main game screen down. The ancillary effects like the star field, or the occasional explosion shouldn't be too much of a problem though.

The bigger problem is that its going to need to be a monster projector to compete with the light output of a flat panel in a dark room, especially over such a wide area. Either that, or you'd need to manually dim the panel down, something a lot of people won't want, or won't know how to do. Even just requiring a dark room really limits who can use it.

Given all of those roadblocks, and considering its proprietary MS, you wonder if any devs would even bother. But man, the idea is super cool if they can ever work it all out....I'd def pay a few hundred bucks if it had widespread support.
post #5331 of 7006
Maybe I'd need to see it in person but it seems like it would be more distracting than anything.
post #5332 of 7006
love the pulse at 2:17. lighting at 2:57. but the combo at 3:56 and near the end credits was cool.
post #5333 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The bigger problem is that its going to need to be a monster projector to compete with the light output of a flat panel in a dark room, especially over such a wide area. Either that, or you'd need to manually dim the panel down, something a lot of people won't want, or won't know how to do. Even just requiring a dark room really limits who can use it.

There's also just the purely cosmetic issues, as in people aren't going to want to put another box in the middle of the living room for this sort of thing.

It's a really cool demo... I just think there's no way it has anything to do with the next Xbox.
post #5334 of 7006


as long as the device is fairly portable, it's fine. the research paper says this annoyance though: "Thus the Kinect camera could be used to calibrate the projector and then returned to the TV stand for gaming." That next-gen Kinect better have a super long cable because I'm not going to constantly be unplugging and replugging it in, especially in a home theater scenario where you have to loop the cable through multiple holes in the back of an entertainment center in the wall. I'd be okay with detaching it from the Kinect stand and moving it over to the projector.

the field of view aspect of the concept is cool in that if it gives me an edge over gamers who don't have one, that's an added bonus.
post #5335 of 7006
did you guys check out the research paper yet?

this was amusing...

We recruited 10 participants (ages 20-30, 2 female). In order to ensure that participants could focus on the gaming experience and not the control scheme, we required that participants be familiar playing first-person shooter games with an Xbox controller. The user study lasted approximately one hour and participants received $10 for their participation. Audio and video of the sessions were recorded for the purposes of extracting quotations.

In our experiments, the user sat on a couch 8 ft. from a 40” diagonal television displaying 720p content. A projector was mounted above and slightly behind the user’s head, 11 ft. from the television and 5 ft. above the ground, at a resolution of 1280x800, casting a 130 inch diagonal image (measured within the plane of the television). The television viewing angle was 20º and the projector’s viewing angle was 45º. These distances were chosen to maximize the projected area, within the limits of the working range of the [current generation] Kinect sensor.

Each participant interacted with eleven illusions paired with matching game content. We paired game content with the illusions in order to maximize the effectiveness of the experience. The majority of the illusions were paired with an open-source first-person shooter (Red Eclipse2).

Participants interacted with the eleven illusions with paired video game content in a randomized order. Participants were first introduced to each game without any peripheral projected illusions so that they could learn the control scheme and game objectives. Then, the illusion was revealed and gameplay continued. Immediately following the last illusion, participants filled out a Simulator Sickness Questionnaire (SSQ) evaluating their overall comfort level.



Appearance worked well at creating a sense of atmosphere for the game. As one user put it “The appearance is awesome. Like that could just be an effect in someone’s living room all the time. That is just super cool.” However, the effect by itself was deemed not as interesting as it would be if it were combined with other effects. One user stated “If you are going to project something, you might as well project something that is directly relevant to the game.”

Radial Wobble was another ‘magical’ effect, that “kinda made you feel like you are physically doing something in [the game].” However, some users said the effect was off-putting, because “all your stuff is shaking in the real world.” In the evaluation, Radial Wobble was triggered in the firstperson shooter every time a weapon was fired. As one user stated, “It just seemed like one that you should save for really impactful moments. So I just wouldn’t want it all the time.”

For the Bounce illusion, due to the rough nature of the paired DirectX sample application users had to imagine what it would be like to incorporate this effect into a real game. Multiple users referenced the grenade indicator in Infinity Ward’s Call of Duty, “Most of the time I don’t see the grenades at all...They always kill me, so that was a good one.”
post #5336 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

There's also just the purely cosmetic issues, as in people aren't going to want to put another box in the middle of the living room for this sort of thing.

It's a really cool demo... I just think there's no way it has anything to do with the next Xbox.

Yeah, I mean...I don't even have a coffee table in front of my gaming setup. I don't even have enough distance to use kinect in the space between my couch and TV.
post #5337 of 7006
The problem I have is my Wall media center pretty much takes up the wall it is is on, so I doubt it will do much other than the special effects for me if I was to get it. I like the idea of a nice flat wall and having the game scene extended around the TV. I'll be curious to what the price may be for this as well. As for a projector on the coffee table I can already hear my wife not liking that idea.....rolleyes.gif
post #5338 of 7006
If IllumiRoom does happen (skeptical), it will be very niche. As others have said, many gaming rooms don't have space or the semi-controlled environment for the effect to work right.

I don't think it will happen, but I kinda hope it does. It does look like it might be distracting, but at the same time could be a fun gimmick to mess with.
post #5339 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

love the pulse at 2:17. lighting at 2:57. but the combo at 3:56 and near the end credits was cool.

The pulse is where I thought the demo really started to shine.
post #5340 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

The pulse is where I thought the demo really started to shine.

Yeah that part kind of blew my mind. I think extending the whole view onto the living room is a little silly, but the little effects like that pulse would be super cool. Kind of like the controller rumble, just a tiny little thing that adds to the experience.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Xbox Area
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › Xbox Area › Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation....