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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 184  

post #5491 of 7006
The Xbox has a better interface than any cable box I have ever used so that alone is worth it to me to plug the cable box signal through my Xbox. What I would love to do is get rid of my cable box, but I can be satisfied if I never have to change inputs. The ability to quickly jump from gaming to live television watching would be a neat feature for me.
post #5492 of 7006
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

And if you're watching OTA broadcasts you'd actually be adding a box where your tv viewing of OTA is concerned by routing it through your console instead of directly to your tv.

.

True, but for tons of cord cutters like me, if Microsoft had DVR functionality for OTA stuff via a built in Tuner, I'd have no problem putting my Infinity on input 1, and then it would become my everything box (assuming the Netflix app and Amazon Prime app's are good). Right now, it's kind of impossible to get an affordable solution for a OTA DVR without getting a tuner card for your PC. The convenience factor would be high if that could be built into the Infinity.

Unfortunately, I really doubt that MS will go this route, considering their ownership stake in Comcast, and them not wanting to piss off the cable industry in general. Making cord cutting less difficult for the masses would probably really piss the cable industry off.
post #5493 of 7006
I'm assuming it may just be a similar implementation like google tv. So your not really removing a box, but if it functions like your using only one box, that's all I really care about....
post #5494 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomNinjaAtk View Post

I'm assuming it may just be a similar implementation like google tv. So your not really removing a box, but if it functions like your using only one box, that's all I really care about....

And I'm not sure people would really want a DVR competing with your games for disk space and HDD access anyway. It'll be a decent stepping stone towards the eventual future where everything is just on demand.
post #5495 of 7006
Another factor is reliability and durability. Modern game consoles die quick enough as it is without being on just to watch television.

But I suppose thanks to Netflix, plenty are already used to doing that as it is.
post #5496 of 7006
Can you imagine the uproar from all these people who want their Xbox to be the be all end all box and then it RROD's and they are without Games, TV etc.etc. for up to 2 weeks. That would be hilarious. No Thanks. I keep my gaming devices separate from my TV devices. MSFT can't be trusted to have a Console that won't break down.
post #5497 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

And I'm not sure people would really want a DVR competing with your games for disk space and HDD access anyway. It'll be a decent stepping stone towards the eventual future where everything is just on demand.

It is not like you need that much space for gaming. Most people do not buy a ton of games so they do not need a huge hard drive just for games. They could always allow you to dedicate a certain number space for games and a certain number for tv.
post #5498 of 7006
well, I prefer installing games to the HDD. but my 250GB is totally tapped out with DLC and GoD. I also have a 32GB flash drive completely filled as well. And a 16 GB drive nearly filled. so I barely have any disc games installed anymore. it really sucks to run games off disc. If they want all the games to be installed the HDD and they want people to buy a ton of DLC, they really need to rethink the HDD strategy.

My PC has terabytes of space for recordings, movies, etc. Unless they let the next Xbox be the same way, they can't expect people to constantly erase and redownload DLC. we don't yet live in a world where downloading many GBs is a breeze on a reasonable budget.
post #5499 of 7006
This is probably all a fruitless discussion because I do not see Microsoft including a DVR option in the box. I think the best we can hope for is bring your cable box/tuner option that will interact with the new X box.
Edited by spid - 5/10/13 at 10:32pm
post #5500 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

This is probably all a fruitless discussion because I do not see Microsoft including a DVR option in the box. I think the best we can hope for is bring your cable box/tuner option that will interact with the new X box.
I am pretty sure you are right.
post #5501 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

It is not like you need that much space for gaming. Most people do not buy a ton of games so they do not need a huge hard drive just for games. They could always allow you to dedicate a certain number space for games and a certain number for tv.

Tons of people already optionally install their games. And even just with the DVD format, those fill up space surprisingly quick. And with Blu-Ray, I suspect mandatory installations will become common.

And while you may not partake much in it, the growth of digital game downloading has exploded this generation. Plenty of Xbox 360 gamers find things like 250 gig hard drive sizes fairly restrictive these days. And that's all without taking into account sometimes huge patches, map packs, and so on.

And then you have people ripping audio CD's to their 360 (Probably not too common these days with streaming and USB drives), downloading videos, and many other functions.

For this upcoming console, 500 gigs should be bare minimum even though I imagine something like 250 or 300 gigs will more likely be the lower cost option. At the very least I can't imagine a non hard drive option this time around or anything less than 120 gigs or so of mandatory storage space.
post #5502 of 7006
Actually most the patches on the 360 range in size of just 5-10mbs .
post #5503 of 7006
Most are much smaller than that. 2MB or smaller seems pretty common and wasn't that even the limit at one point? But increasingly, large patches are arriving. Particularly in online multiplayer centric games where everyone often needs the content present for seamless multiplayer even if they don't have access to it themselves since they didn't pay for it.

That was even done a bit in the Xbox 1 days with games like Project Gotham Racing 2 where you had to download the car packs to play online multiplayer even if you didn't pay to unlock them so you could see an opponent if they selected one of those vehicles.

Defiance for instance apparently has 12 gigs of patches after doing a search just now for an example. Still the exceptions to the rule but the incidents of these seem to be growing rather than decreasing.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 5/11/13 at 10:20am
post #5504 of 7006
The ONLY thing keeping 360 patches small is the legacy HDD-less SKU. Next Gen they won't have one and you can say goodbye to 2MB patches.
post #5505 of 7006
They need to go on an add MaxGo so I can watch my Strike Back and Banshee
post #5506 of 7006
"The ONLY thing keeping 360 patches small is the legacy HDD-less SKU"

Or, if one is actually interested in telling the truth, it's the fact that 360 patches hot-patch the existing files. In effect, they only contain what changed. On the PS3/Wii/Steam patches replace the old files outright. 0.1% changed across 40 files equaling 1500MB? You're downloading the whole 1500MB of effected files. The 360's hot-patch system only requires downloading the 1.5MB of modifications, plus a tiny pointer file that says where to jam those modifications.
post #5507 of 7006
I didn't think 'patching' was the right term for what happens on the 360. If you can just flush them by clearing the 360's cache, then they are more linked to the old code than they are replacing it. A very flexible kind of linking, but linking none the less.

Or so it seems to me...
post #5508 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

I didn't think 'patching' was the right term for what happens on the 360. If you can just flush them by clearing the 360's cache, then they are more linked to the old code than they are replacing it. A very flexible kind of linking, but linking none the less.

Or so it seems to me...

Yeah, they're delta patches, they just contain the changes in the files. They could easily do the same next gen.
post #5509 of 7006
"I didn't think 'patching' was the right term for what happens on the 360."

Hence the term "hot-patch". The original data lives on a read-only disc, so you can't patch those files directly. wink.gif Even when the data is on the HDD or sourced from XBLA it is still essentially a read-only disc image. What you can do is read the files in to memory and patch them on the fly every time they are called up. This is what the 360 does, and it is a big reason why loading games on this platform creates a far better user experience than the PS3's "Bought a new game that you're excited to play? Awesome! Go do something else for two hours while I download (and then install?!?) 3GB worth of patches!".

It's very similar to how PC games like Doom used to patch files in the mid-90s. They would only distribute the 100K worth of changes with a 25K patching exe, then use that change data to patch the original 11MB worth of game data. The patch process then wrote back to the HDD, but the method of patching is very much like what the 360 does today.
post #5510 of 7006
Perhaps I just think there's potentially a flaw in too many of this kind of 'patches'. When I patched software, it was to await a bigger fix that did what was supposed to happen in the first place. This way, you have a possibly ever-growing jump table filled with new addresses to use instead of where the old code lived. Maybe that's why Microsoft seems to limit the number of patches, which is also bad in case more problems show up later.

Forced install to hard disk? Well, then you can do it the old way and in-place replace code. I think that might be a better deal in plenty of cases.

Agree that the 360 works. Not sure the idea deserves to be pushed forward to the new machine...
post #5511 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

Perhaps I just think there's potentially a flaw in too many of this kind of 'patches'. When I patched software, it was to await a bigger fix that did what was supposed to happen in the first place. This way, you have a possibly ever-growing jump table filled with new addresses to use instead of where the old code lived. Maybe that's why Microsoft seems to limit the number of patches, which is also bad in case more problems show up later.

Forced install to hard disk? Well, then you can do it the old way and in-place replace code. I think that might be a better deal in plenty of cases.

Agree that the 360 works. Not sure the idea deserves to be pushed forward to the new machine...

Yeah, with both systems having a HDD by default, with full installs expected, one would assume that it would just write the changes permanently to disk rather than keep it in a temporary cache. But there's still plenty of merit in the idea of not having to redownload several hundred MB of files, just for a few KB of changes.
post #5512 of 7006
I know I'm a little late to this conversation, but I think a "one box to rule them all" approach is a really bad idea. Not saying that I don't want capability to do other things than game, but I want those as backup options. I may even use them more permanently if they are good services, but...

First of all, I like to be able to upgrade components individually. If I don't like one piece of hardware or it gets outdated because that technology is moving quickly, just upgrade it. Can't do that if everything is in one box. The biggest reason thogh, is what if your "one box" fails. You either have to replace it immediately with a new one, or go 2+ weeks without any kind of media. Ever had one of those old tvs with the combo vcr/dvd? I got one for christmas as a kid, within a year both components had failed and I had that bulky ass tv plus a standalone dvd player.
post #5513 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

I know I'm a little late to this conversation, but I think a "one box to rule them all" approach is a really bad idea. Not saying that I don't want capability to do other things than game, but I want those as backup options. I may even use them more permanently if they are good services, but...

First of all, I like to be able to upgrade components individually. If I don't like one piece of hardware or it gets outdated because that technology is moving quickly, just upgrade it. Can't do that if everything is in one box. The biggest reason thogh, is what if your "one box" fails. You either have to replace it immediately with a new one, or go 2+ weeks without any kind of media. Ever had one of those old tvs with the combo vcr/dvd? I got one for christmas as a kid, within a year both components had failed and I had that bulky ass tv plus a standalone dvd player.

Keeping around a $50 streamer, or using the smart TV apps that are basically built into everything can keep you going if your nextbox goes down. I'm not sure the TV/VCR analogy really works, because all the media capabilities are basically freebies, its just repurposing the hardware used for games. It's not like just half of the nextbox software will fail. And it will get significant software updates over time. The biggest concern for me, would be updating the hardware....5 years from now, the nextbox will be ancient technology even for media streaming. It's the 21st century, they've got to break this cycle, and create a platform that can grow over time.
post #5514 of 7006
post #5515 of 7006
Could this be the PS4? I was wondering if they would drop this before the MS reveal. Try to steal a little thunder.
post #5516 of 7006
I say fake.

Theres just something about the ad that doesn't look professional. Its the same picture of a device, from the same angle, shown over and over. Theres a bunch of people that have playstation symbols embedded in their eyes.. something that doesnt seem overly complicated to do with common video editing software. The emblems on the device look way too "in-your-face".. with the huge PS4 logo and bright LED strip. Considering this is a device that will end up in many home theaters I cannot imagine the design language being this "loud". The supposed game footage, looks like something from this generation.. not next.. and why is it so blurry? Why would they even bother showing that, I can name a 100 games that look better on current consoles. Finally.. if Sony went thru this much trouble to keep it hidden before E3, I find it hard to believe they have shot & produced a full commercial for the PS4 this soon.

And I disagree with the narrator. The Playstation family has sold over 400 million units in you include the PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP and Vita. Anything that popular is definitely worthy of being falsified.
Edited by Daekwan - 5/13/13 at 12:51pm
post #5517 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

Could this be the PS4? I was wondering if they would drop this before the MS reveal. Try to steal a little thunder.

F.A.K.E.

But a well-done one.
post #5518 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

I say fake.

Theres just something about the ad that doesn't look professional. Its the same picture of a device, from the same angle, shown over and over. Theres a bunch of people that have playstation symbols embedded in their eyes.. something that doesnt seem overly complicated to do with common video editing software. The emblems on the device look way too "in-your-face".. with the huge PS4 logo and bright LED strip. Considering this is a device that will end up in many home theaters I cannot imagine the design language being this "loud". The supposed game footage, looks like something from this generation.. not next.. and why is it so blurry? Why would they even bother showing that, I can name a 100 games that look better on current consoles. Finally.. if Sony went thru this much trouble to keep it hidden before E3, I find it hard to believe they have shot & produced a full commercial for the PS4 this soon.

And I disagree with the narrator. The Playstation family has sold over 400 million units in you include the PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP and Vita. Anything that popular is definitely worthy of being falsified.

Totally agree. It's not that impressive upon further viewing. Besides the image of it looks too busy and relies on "wow" factor. Color me unimpressed.
post #5519 of 7006
So now that we're just around the bend....what is the one single thing you guys want from the nextbox? What would make you put down an instant preorder?

For my part, it'd have to be cross compatibility with PC. Tell me that anything I buy from XBL, I also get for Windows 8, and vice versa....and I'm sold.
post #5520 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

So now that we're just around the bend....what is the one single thing you guys want from the nextbox? What would make you put down an instant preorder?
  1. I really need cable box functionality, either via WMC Extender like we currently do, or via a new app and using a cable box. Currently I do not have a single cablebox in the house because everything is run through WMC using the Xbox as an extender, so if they removed WMC extender and did not build in cablebox functionality, this would be a huge loss for me.
  2. I also really want backwards compatibility, at least for market place content! Meaning GoD, XBLA and etc.... Even if the system doesn't support it, I will probably still pick it up on day one, I'll just keeping using my current 3 Xbox's to play older content....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

For my part, it'd have to be cross compatibility with PC. Tell me that anything I buy from XBL, I also get for Windows 8, and vice versa....and I'm sold.

Cross play and more integration with windows 8 would be great!
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