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Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 221  

post #6601 of 7006
Rumored remote Play feature for the Xbox One.
Quote:
The Xbox One will also feature the ability to Skype a friend to ask them for help on a game and then allow them to take over gameplay. The feature is designed to allow players to help one another get through sections of a game when they're stuck.

In a demonstration of the feature, a source told us that a message popped up on their screen asking if it was OK if the player they were Skyping with could take over the game. Once the friend took over, the first player was able to watch them play the game. Either player could end the remote play with a button push.


http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/24/4361974/the-xbox-one-can-talk-to-you-will-feature-remote-play
post #6602 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

See, here's the problem... You're naming the console makers, not the developers. They have done fine with sales because with the exception of their first party game studios, they're selling consoles and licensing. What you should be looking at is the bankruptcy of 38 Studios after Kingdom Of Amalur underperformed. Or Ubisoft laying off 400 people. Or Team Bondi closing up shop after L.A. Noire, despite good sales and critical acclaim. That's who the secondary market harms, not the companies that make the electronics that run the games. And while I don't think that merits the absolute dissolution of used game sales, I do think the current paradigm of GameStop making all the profit with nothing going to the developers will have to change by necessity. And these new models (which we still have yet to fully see from either Sony or MS) will likely be a half-step toward a more direct digital solution that eschews physical media.

so your example is of a studio ran by a baseball player... wonder how it went under. Schilling admitted in a TV interview he basically "didn't know anything about the gaming industry and just hired people and threw them together to make a game"for every example you have i can point out Notch or another ultra successful developer that has more money than they can imagine... the larger problem is everyone is trying to make the next Halo, uncharted, etc.. and since it is such a big gamble if it doesn't pay off then it hurts the company, big time... recently an indie developer showed how his game was pirated 89% of total copies on the market, so to say all these studios are failing due to used games and not even talk about the large impact pirates have is just ignorant. Studios have survived for decades fine with used games and just like anything, things change and some companies adapt and some don't...

lastly L.A. Noire was a disaster.. look at all the issues the studio had, it didn't have to do with secondary market, it had to do with everything being a nightmare and being completely mismanaged.. along with 38 studios, both studios talked about how there were a ton of issues, from being overworked, mismanagement of money, etc.. do some research on the companies before you say the "secondary market" killed them. I love management and business and i can assure you ANY COMPANY in ANY INDUSTRY, that was managed the way 38 and Bondi was, would go bankrupt....

i mean team bondi was UNDER INVESTIGATION for how they ran the company, so really "secondary market" killed it. all you are doing is pulling examples and trying to support your argument without doing any research..
http://www.gamesradar.com/la-noires-team-bondi-under-investigation-for-harmful-working-conditions/

it took them seven years to make one game... so read this link below and tell me what successful company operates this way..
http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/06/24/why-did-la-noire-take-seven-years-to-make?page=2
Edited by benjamin-benjami - 5/24/13 at 10:36am
post #6603 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjr39 View Post

So of course you bought a new house and only buy new cars? Because the secondary markets for both eat into new sales. And not sure if you noticed, but Detriot has had quite a few layoffs in recent years to adjust to demand.

Partly their own fault as they didn't put out a product as good as the Germans, Japanese, and Koreans. I will never buy an American car because I have had nothing but junk from them. People I know with American cars today just aren't getting the quality they should be. I know Detroit is trying to improve, and they have, but they still haven't caught up to the foreign car makers IMO.

The car market is totally different. You have to have a car in most locations in this country. If you sell your car, you need to buy another. Some people buy new, some always buy used, but in the end the new car buyers have to sell their cars in order to buy another new car. Some don't see any value in buying a new car as they depreciate quickly or they just use a car and don't really care about it. There is also a finite amount of used cars in the market. If people couldn't find what they wanted used, they would have to buy new. Owning a car isn't an option for many, and buying new is not an option for many Americans so they were never considered as potential owners of brand new. The market base for new is much smaller than the total car market.

I would love to buy a new house, but I live on the East coast and there is nowhere to build new homes in the area I love being in. The few that do pop up from time to time sell rapidly. There is only so much need for new houses. People can't abandon a mortgage of their current house to get into a new house. The market needs more people for housing and the population is not growing very fast. What the economy did was take away the need for second homes. People sell mountain and shore houses when times get tough. It isn't a necessity like a primary home.
post #6604 of 7006
I'm waiting for E3 to fully decide whether MS still cares about games. At the moment, there's very little doubt in my mind that they do.

I remember reading well before the Xbox One reveal, they said the 21st was for hardware and E3 would be all about the games.
post #6605 of 7006
38 Studios is a poor example, how about we actually blame developers and publishers for those problems? Wasteful spending, over inflated budgets, unrealistic sales expectations, those are the real problems, not the scapegoats of used games and piracy.
post #6606 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post



This is truly good for gamers, as developers will make more money to invest in new projects. I truly can't see how this will ruin anyone outside of rentals. I am sure MS is going to try to come up with a way to offer that as well, so hold on and see what happens.


How is this good for Gamers? The money is going to MSFT and the PUBLISHERS (ie Activision & EA). The DEVELOPERS are not getting Anything. This is just a money grab by MSFT & Publishers who HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR SAID GAME:mad:
post #6607 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtledog View Post

I'm waiting for E3 to fully decide whether MS still cares about games. At the moment, there's very little doubt in my mind that they do.

I remember reading well before the Xbox One reveal, they said the 21st was for hardware and E3 would be all about the games.
This sounds sensible, and I don't think that is allowed on the internet right now.
post #6608 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

38 Studios is a poor example, how about we actually blame developers and publishers for those problems? Wasteful spending, over inflated budgets, unrealistic sales expectations, those are the real problems, not the scapegoats of used games and piracy.

The last thing I want is for game budgets to shrink.
post #6609 of 7006
If you are angry about all of this then speak with your wallet. Nobody is going to care about your feelings if you go along with their scenario.
post #6610 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfame View Post

How is this good for Gamers? The money is going to MSFT and the PUBLISHERS (ie Activision & EA). The DEVELOPERS are not getting Anything. This is just a money grab by MSFT & Publishers who HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR SAID GAME:mad:

You don't think the developers would have a deal in place to get a piece of the resale? I am pretty sure they would. Don't publishers also front a lot of the studios the money to develop the games they make in the first place? (I really don't know). Either way the people behind the games should be getting the money. Not the stores who could care less about developers making it.
post #6611 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Partly their own fault as they didn't put out a product as good as the Germans, Japanese, and Koreans. I will never buy an American car because I have had nothing but junk from them. People I know with American cars today just aren't getting the quality they should be. I know Detroit is trying to improve, and they have, but they still haven't caught up to the foreign car makers IMO.

Not all American cars are junk. Toyota builds some really nice ones here smile.gif
post #6612 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

You don't think the developers would have a deal in place to get a piece of the resale? I am pretty sure they would. Don't publishers also front a lot of the studios the money to develop the games they make in the first place? (I really don't know). Either way the people behind the games should be getting the money. Not the stores who could care less about developers making it.
Also don't forget that if the publisher continues to get money for a game, that those sales numbers might help ensure a sequel or at least a new IP from that studio since they could see just how well the game did.
post #6613 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The last thing I want is for game budgets to shrink.

Fine with me if they do. Cut out the BS and get back to making entertaining games instead of $500 million trainwrecks like SWTOR.
post #6614 of 7006
Trust me, no XBOne will be in my house (I had a 360 for 6+ years). If Sony does the samething I will just stick with my Gaming PC and Wii U. I DON'T allow Corporations to dictate to me what I do with my purchases. They don't OWN me.
post #6615 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The last thing I want is for game budgets to shrink.

When has an over inflated budget actually led to a better game?
post #6616 of 7006
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Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Not all American cars are junk. Toyota builds some really nice ones here smile.gif

Lol, my Nissan was also built in the US.
post #6617 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Yes, but when you buy a house or a new car, you're buying a physical product. When you buy software, you're buying a license to use that software. The medium that the software is transmitted to your box is not the actual product. Console gamers haven't had to face that reality, but as the divide between computer and console disappears, it's one that they will have to accept.

Which is nonsense and goes against the the spirit of first-sale doctrine. It actually makes more sense in a world where copyright holders have less costs to producing additional units to sell as new, thus larger margins and a larger ability to price to sell.

But we have the government we elect, and it's a pretty sympathetic one to entrenched interests.

No one's talked about this, but I think this is going to run afoul of quite a few laws in the EU and Japan. Is MS completely giving up on their markets abroad? Or are they going to have the balls to tell US consumers they're different?
Quote:
It's necessary for the gaming industry to survive.

I don't buy that for one second. I do think the industry would be a tad more volatile, but inefficiency and risk breeds innovation. Louis CK released a non-DRM Live at the Beacon Theater for $5 on his website and sold so many copies that he brought in quite a bit more than he would have got paid through normal publishing routes, while also donating 1/4 to charity and a 1/4 as bonuses to those who made it happen.

I will say, this is all about publishers and their refusal to adopt to changing technologies and their place. They are very worried about a future where they are cut out, as someone else said. They're pretty stupid if they think helping to create these lock-down systems won't eventually backfire as MSONY just cuts them out and pays developers directly while keeping the same structure in place. From the sounds of it, SONY is already kicking this off with their new view on Indy games and self-publishing. Kickstarter has become a force-dejour in Gaming.
Edited by TyrantII - 5/24/13 at 11:09am
post #6618 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Not all American cars are junk. Toyota builds some really nice ones here smile.gif

Not to get into a debate about cars. (My post was analogy), but I'm happy with my two American cars.
post #6619 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Which is nonsense and goes against the the spirit of first-sale doctrine. It actually makes more sense in a world where copyright holders have less costs to producing additional units to sell as new, thus larger margins and a larger ability to price to sell.

But we have the government we elect, and it's a pretty sympathetic one to entrenched interests.

No one's talked about this, but I think this is going to run afoul of quite a few laws in the EU and Japan. Is MS completely giving up on their markets abroad? Or are they going to have the balls to tell US consumers they're different?
I don't buy that for one second. I do think the industry would be a tad more volatile, but inefficiency and risk breeds innovation. Louis CK released a non-DRM Live at the Beacon Theater for $5 on his website and sold so many copies that he brought in quite a bit more than he would have got paid through normal publishing routes, while also donating 1/4 to charity and a 1/4 as bonuses to those who made it happen.

I will say, this is all about publishers and their refusal to adopt to changing technologies and their place. They are very worried about a future where they are cut out, as someone else said. They're pretty stupid if they think helping to create these lock-down systems won't eventually backfire as MSONY just cuts them out and pays developers directly while keeping the same structure in place. From the sounds of it, SONY is already kicking this off with their new view on Indy games and self-publishing. Kickstarted has become a force-dejour in Gaming.

I'm very interested to see how the EU reacts to the XB.

Although, I don't see them giving up in EU. To me, that's why EA was on stage. They are going to throw significant freebies to FIFA FUT players in an attempt to get them to buy the console.
post #6620 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I won't buy digital until the platform provider has proven that they will support your digital purchases on new hardware. Sony and Microsoft both score an F on this one. Nintendo at least offers 99.9% full BC including digital content on both the Wii U and 3DS. They may lack an account system, but they have shown a willingness to support your digital purchases, which is why I feel safe buying digital from them. If Steam gets an A, Nintendo gets a C+ for effort and once they get the planned account system in place they will be bumped up to a B.

I agree, but there's a big * there.

MSONY have moved to X86, Apple is on X86. Nintendo is the last hold out as far as major consumer platforms go for PPC, and I highly doubt they'll continue to do so going forward. While that means little to their legacy games, and maybe even Wii games, WiiU backwards compatibility is going to be a tough in the next generation. They're going to have skip a gen of support as well unless they're going to remake WiiU HD collections and give them away.
post #6621 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjr39 View Post

Not to get into a debate about cars. (My post was analogy), but I'm happy with my two American cars.

Glad to hear that actually. They need to do a few things I won't get into here to earn me back as a customer. One thing the foreign companies did was kick Detroit in the butt and make them bring their A game. Competition is always a good thing. Detroit figured Americans would always buy American, and they were wrong. Kind of how Sony lost so much market share with the PS3. They assumed people would "have" to own a PS3 and they were wrong. It still worked out for them with Blu-Ray winning the war. Sony seems to be on a better track to get back to making a great experience. Microsoft is improving on what they have done, and I am sure will surprise us with updates through the years to improve the system. As long as these two strive to be the best we all benefit as gamers.
post #6622 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Glad to hear that actually. They need to do a few things I won't get into here to earn me back as a customer. One thing the foreign companies did was kick Detroit in the butt and make them bring their A game. Competition is always a good thing. Detroit figured Americans would always buy American, and they were wrong. Kind of how Sony lost so much market share with the PS3. They assumed people would "have" to own a PS3 and they were wrong. It still worked out for them with Blu-Ray winning the war. Sony seems to be on a better track to get back to making a great experience. Microsoft is improving on what they have done, and I am sure will surprise us with updates through the years to improve the system. As long as these two strive to be the best we all benefit as gamers.

You're absolutely right about both Detroit and Sony. This is where I see MSFT right now. They are assuming that I need a XB and that I won't jump to Sony. It's typical for them (IE anyone), and they need to see sales suffer because of it.
post #6623 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

No one's talked about this, but I think this is going to run afoul of quite a few laws in the EU and Japan. Is MS completely giving up on their markets abroad? Or are they going to have the balls to tell US consumers they're different?

I am wondering if they can put something on the retail copy saying this activates a download for their sole use or something to that effect. I am sure they will find a way with the in house lawyers they have. Someone would of had to have thought of that.
post #6624 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjr39 View Post

You're absolutely right about both Detroit and Sony. This is where I see MSFT right now. They are assuming that I need a XB and that I won't jump to Sony. It's typical for them (IE anyone), and they need to see sales suffer because of it.
The dreaded third console curse? I was thinking the same thing. I worry that MS just expects gamers to buy in to them. But I honestly see the near future being all digital, and I kind of think that MS sees themselves as pushing the industry forward in this respect. And like many have said, the days of a console doing just games and only appealing to gamers are long gone. This is how MS envisions the future going, where you buy a powerful console that can also be the center of your living room.
post #6625 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

What you should be looking at is the bankruptcy of 38 Studios after Kingdom Of Amalur underperformed.

Curt Schilling ran a horrible business on a terrible loan from the state of RI. They're pretty much the worst example of a "good developer" that you could find, especially seeing as they had to literally buy out another studio to release something already 95% done (KOA), and then dragged them under as well. Curt was living high on other peoples investments and had no idea what he was doing besides the sociopathic bravado that he'd make great games because he played WOW. Even at a time when MMO's, the "next big thing", were already flailing left and right. Love him for what he did with my Sox, but damn if that wasn't a train wreck that everyone saw but no one stopped.
Quote:
Or Ubisoft laying off 400 people. Or Team Bondi closing up shop after L.A. Noire, despite good sales and critical acclaim. That's who the secondary market harms, not the companies that make the electronics that run the games. And while I don't think that merits the absolute dissolution of used game sales, I do think the current paradigm of GameStop making all the profit with nothing going to the developers will have to change by necessity. And these new models (which we still have yet to fully see from either Sony or MS) will likely be a half-step toward a more direct digital solution that eschews physical media.

Well first, publishers reallocating resources are the problem for those studios above. That a big publisher can use the millions they used better at Rockstar SD or Ubisoft Montreal for a better return is a business decision. Making a profit, but not hitting a corp mark and deciding you can do better reallocating resources isn't a failure. It's more of a realization that some of these publisher relationships make no sense for dev studios in markets where increasingly big publishers want big profits or for you to go home.

Second, what makes you assume not having a secondary market would have brought those developers more sales? Thats a pretty big assumption.
post #6626 of 7006
It's strange, people are as outraged over the thought of the platform holder and the developer getting a cut, as they were when used games were rumored to be completely blocked.

Anyways, what I'm wondering is, now that retail games will have all the advantages of the digital version, but if retail games can be traded in, and digital can't....why would anyone *ever* buy the digital version? But if you could somehow resell digital games....that'd be a pretty big step forward.
post #6627 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjr39 View Post

You're absolutely right about both Detroit and Sony. This is where I see MSFT right now. They are assuming that I need a XB and that I won't jump to Sony. It's typical for them (IE anyone), and they need to see sales suffer because of it.

What I will find interesting is how each system is priced. I expect both systems to be more similar than different. I expect Sony will follow in Microsoft wake and do the same thing with used games and paid online. We also don't know a heck of a lot about the Camera for the PS4 and if it could also watch/listen to us. Sony may try to copy Microsoft with similar features of the Kinect (as best as it can without purposefully being designed that way).

E3 is going to be very interesting. I am more excited for it this year than I ever have been. Not even so much for the games because there will be great games on both systems. I really want to see the reaction of the press who hopefully get to play, but worst get to watch gameplay footage. How will the Kinect be integrated into games beyond what we already know/have? What else are they going to announce about the system to iron out as many details as possible? I don't expect pricing to be announced, but if it was I would get my pre-order in immediately.
post #6628 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

The dreaded third console curse? I was thinking the same thing. I worry that MS just expects gamers to buy in to them. But I honestly see the near future being all digital, and I kind of think that MS sees themselves as pushing the industry forward in this respect. And like many have said, the days of a console doing just games and only appealing to gamers are long gone. This is how MS envisions the future going, where you buy a powerful console that can also be the center of your living room.

The living unifier is a unicorn. These companies have been trying to do that for years and its just not going to happen...
post #6629 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

It's strange, people are as outraged over the thought of the platform holder and the developer getting a cut, as they were when used games were rumored to be completely blocked.

Anyways, what I'm wondering is, now that retail games will have all the advantages of the digital version, but if retail games can be traded in, and digital can't....why would anyone *ever* buy the digital version? But if you could somehow resell digital games....that'd be a pretty big step forward.

I have not thought of that, but if you can play disc based games without a disc why buy digital unless you just do not want the box in your house. It is possible you could not find a disc in stores, but that will not be a problem for years.
post #6630 of 7006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

I am wondering if they can put something on the retail copy saying this activates a download for their sole use or something to that effect. I am sure they will find a way with the in house lawyers they have. Someone would of had to have thought of that.

How long until publishers start doing this with these new systems to "cut costs"?

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