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Samsung PND8000 vs Panasonic VT30 - Page 20

post #571 of 693
It's more like the viewing angles suck for things like local dimming, and absolute black level. Viewing in a non critical situation the viewing angle is not bad but still not as good as plasma.
post #572 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

They sure are, best LED of 2011.

Until the 980S from LG arrives.

@LarryInRI
Some reviewers take their jobs seriously.
post #573 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Until the 980S from LG arrives.

@LarryInRI
Some reviewers take their jobs seriously.


Thanks for the concise technical explanation.

Larry
post #574 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloimplant View Post

I can see dithering from 6ft distance on my 55vt30. It is the only plasma I have experience with but from what i hear it is no better/worse than typical. Luckily I'm usually more like 8ft away and it blends at that distance. On the 65vt30 I might see it even at 8'.

It is 'good' to hear that the viewing angles on the hx929 suck. I was wondering the if hx929 might be a better choice but viewing angle is one of the reasons I have stuck with the plasma despite its faults. My TV is on one wall and sometimes I will watch it from the kitchen which is further along the same wall. Also I have a desk that is on the other side of the TV stand in the corner so I will lean back in the chair to catch something on the news or whatever at a pretty extreme angle.

Supposedly, Samsung has a better dithering pattern and is less noticeable (at least there were many threads about it for last year's models). I'm not sure if that's really true, but Samsung does more processing.

I would also like to point out that the picture on an LCD starts looking weird up close as well.
post #575 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Just bought the 55 hx929 and damn is it amazing!! Blooming is a non issue 99% of the time and the blacks are Kuro level most of the time if not better(black bars)

I find a little bit of ghosting going on but Im using Xpand 103 glasses and may pick up some new Sony ones to see how they compare. The 3D on this unit is unbelievably bright, much more so that any Plasma. Very Sharp, and motionflow with 3D and animation looks next level 3D.

Really impressed with the motion. Ran the motion tests from the Jap FPD benchmark and it passed all tests PERFECTLY with CLear Motion + (backlight scanning).

The whole CREASE thing is kinda ridiculous. Yes I see it, but only because of people mentioning it on this forum. It's so slight that you really have to stare at it to see it, and as it's on the side of the screen, I don't notice at all duriing normal viewing.

Viewing Angles do suck. You have to be king of the castle straight on to get the full benefit of the AMAZING picture.

I may still buy the VT30 and do a comparison. Im going return both sets anyway and wait for the 65" versions in Canada.

Has anyone done a direct 3D comparison between the VT30 and Sony? I assume the Sony will be better as the Samsung 8000 LED scored higher then the Panny for 3D, and the Sony and Samsung share the same panel again.

Also I like to sit very close to the screen <6 feet. I worried that Plasma dithering would make this a no go. I hate dithering and it's a deal breaker if really noticeable from my viewing distance. The Sony has a very smooth sharp picture from less then 4 feet distance.

The DSE and banding I noticed on the HX929 are troubling considering it is ungodly expensive for a 55".
post #576 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

Supposedly, Samsung has a better dithering pattern and is less noticeable (at least there were many threads about it for last year's models). I'm not sure if that's really true, but Samsung does more processing.

I would also like to point out that the picture on an LCD starts looking weird up close as well.

Interesting it does seem plausible that a different patterning would keep it from being as noticeable. I've noticed that the dithering pattern is very periodic in both time and space if that were 'broken up' more I think it would blend better.

Are these large LCD TVs different from up close than LCD monitors? I mean you can get right up on even a cheap LCD monitor and the picture (at least a static one) is crystal and pixel perfect.
post #577 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloimplant View Post

Interesting it does seem plausible that a different patterning would keep it from being as noticeable. I've noticed that the dithering pattern is very periodic in both time and space if that were 'broken up' more I think it would blend better.

Are these large LCD TVs different from up close than LCD monitors? I mean you can get right up on even a cheap LCD monitor and the picture (at least a static one) is crystal and pixel perfect.

Check them out in a store, preferable under dim lighting. Some of my experience is with older LCDs where you'd see pixelization on movement. I also swear I saw black and white dots scattered throughout the screen on a more modern LCD when viewing really close, but I don't have enough experience with it to say it was definitely an issue with the TV.
post #578 of 693
Back to the thread title... someone sell me on the VT30,


D8000:
Calibrates better (color space)
Not nearly as noticeable brightness fluctuations
better AR coating
brighter

VT30
brightness fluctuations
color gamut is off, color can't be calibrated as well
slightly darker
calibration controls are a mess
more expensive

I have a D8000 now, but I've had so many problems with the Samsung I'm ready to try a VT30. But it doesn't seem they are better to me, just more expensive. Someone set me straight in a NON fanboy way. I.E. facts of the way things are today.


I should add. I'm aware there is a firmware update to fix the floating brightness on the Panasonic that gets installed by a service technician. As well there's a rumored firmware to fix the color gamut. Which I think would give the edge to the VT30. But for now I'm curious to hear others responses to this.
post #579 of 693
SiGGy, CNET claimed that PQ was very close between the 2, but preferred the VT30 over the D8000 for overall PQ. And that was before any VT30 firmware upgrades. IMO, if you have had problems with the D8000, give the VT30 a try (I love mine).
post #580 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

SiGGy, CNET claimed that PQ was very close between the 2, but preferred the VT30 over the D8000 for overall PQ. And that was before any VT30 firmware upgrades. IMO, if you have had problems with the D8000, give the VT30 a try (I love mine).

Hi there, I have bought the VT20 but I have not it has not been delivered as I am waiting for my house renovation. Do you think the improvement of the VT30 is big/significant enough to warrant me getting upgrade over the VT20? Or do you think I will be happy enough with VT20? I don't know whether the store will allow me an upgrade but retail price there is a US1k difference in my place!! I am a real newbie here, as I have not has any HDTVs before? The last unit was Sony S320 which was a 4th unit I think. very much appreciated?

P/S I think I won't do much calibration and will probably view it thru standard settings..
post #581 of 693
The only thing bad about the VT20/V25 series is the black levels will worsen. Panasonic says the VT30 series will not, however only time will tell.

Your best bet/value would be the Samsung D7000 series.

Best of luck.
post #582 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

SiGGy, CNET claimed that PQ was very close between the 2, but preferred the VT30 over the D8000 for overall PQ. And that was before any VT30 firmware upgrades. IMO, if you have had problems with the D8000, give the VT30 a try (I love mine).

As soon as Samsung approves my refund I'll order the VT30.

I just found the "controlCal" application for the VT30. This app will make the calibration WAY WAY less painful. Worth every penny IMO.

Hopefully the gamut firmware will drop sometime this year.

Thanks for the responses.
post #583 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytyguy View Post

The only thing bad about the VT20/V25 series is the black levels will worsen. Panasonic says the VT30 series will not, however only time will tell.

Your best bet/value would be the Samsung D7000 series.

Best of luck.

CNET has been measuring black levels over time. So far, black levels actually got better with the 2011 Panny and worse with the 2011 Sammy. We'll see whether that pattern holds up longer term, but not sure right now that the Sammy is the best bet (best "value," yes, but not best PQ).
post #584 of 693
Both are great sets. I like the outside appearance of the Samsung better. I like the fact that 59" was an option, I purchased the PN59D8000 (upgraded from a 50"). If Panasonic had offered a 60" model my purchase may have differed. 65" or 64" was just too big for my room. I also like the price I purchased my Samsung for ($400 cheaper than the 55" Panasonic). Unless you are a hardcore/insane videophile, I do not believe you can make a bad choice picking either set. If you are that hardcore, nothing will ever make you happy anyway.
post #585 of 693
Well i have the D8000 and the Vt30 well not anymore returned the Vt30 i was more impressed by my D8000, and as far as cnet reviews go on the black issues
i dont trust them with a 10 feet pole, so i took matters in to my own hands and
bought both, for less than 30days since i work for Bestbuy, thank goodness
but they are 2 great sets but in my eye the D8000 came out shining PQ on my 59inch was wow my friend owns a Kuro and he even was impressed more by the D8000 than the VT30, so what does that tell you
post #586 of 693
I'm shocked that Panasonic is being so proactive this year and actually fixing flaws in their product...after the rising black, floating black etc problems of past years that were ignored or stated to be 'features', I just assumed that the fluctuating brightness issue would also be added to that long list...but Pany is actually attempting to fix the problem this year (requires a tech visit to your home but better then nothing)

maybe their claims of no black level rise in the 2011 sets will actually come to fruition as well...gotta give Pany some big props
post #587 of 693
Hi, I'm currently looking into buying one of these televisions. I apologize if I missed this in a previous post, but how would they compare for 3D gaming (or even just regular gaming). I mainly use my television currently to watch a lot of Netflix, but I also watch many bluray movies. I finally got around to buying a nice HTPC so I plan on using my TV for gaming as well in the future, though not as often as watching movies. Any suggestions?

As a note, this will be my first "nice" television. I currently have an old 32" no-name 720p LCD television, so I'm sure either of these is going to make a huge impact on me.

Thanks!
post #588 of 693
I have...had a Panasonic PZ85U, it was good while it lasted...for about 2 yrs...and the freaking 10 blinks problem hit me. Panasonic had that problem for a long time for many generations of their TV, but they chose to not fix them or be responsible for them. A 2K+ TV only last 2yrs? Not sure it is a worthwhile proposition.

I have been trying to fix mine, no parts to be found. If I have to go through an authorized dealer to fix it, the whole process could cost $700 and up...plus 2 months and up...this seems to be a good reason for me not to ever buy a Panasonic anything from now.

I am thinking about a new plasma now instead. Is the aforementioned reason enough for me to just go with Samsung this time? What's your opinion?

Thanks,
sy
post #589 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytrash View Post

I have...had a Panasonic PZ85U, it was good while it lasted...for about 2 yrs...and the freaking 10 blinks problem hit me. Panasonic had that problem for a long time for many generations of their TV, but they chose to not fix them or be responsible for them. A 2K+ TV only last 2yrs? Not sure it is a worthwhile proposition.

I have been trying to fix mine, no parts to be found. If I have to go through an authorized dealer to fix it, the whole process could cost $700 and up...plus 2 months and up...this seems to be a good reason for me not to ever buy a Panasonic anything from now.

I am thinking about a new plasma now instead. Is the aforementioned reason enough for me to just go with Samsung this time? What's your opinion?

Thanks,
sy

I'd say buy what looks best to you and get a extended warranty.
post #590 of 693
Guys, I'm getting mixed reports for 3D. Some say the Panasonic is better, and some say the Samsung is better. If 3D is very important, which would you get? Also, I can get the Samsung for 800.00 less then the Panny.

Anyone else sensitive to phosphor trails/flashes? I was at my friends house and he has the ST30 55" and I could constantely see flashes of colour and green trails on high contrast edges. Would the VT30 be any better then the ST series for phosphor lag. Also how would the Samsung compare for phosphor lag/flash?
post #591 of 693
They will ofer the same phosphor lag perfomance. Panasonic has great 3D but some reviewers say Samsung has the best 3D
post #592 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post

I'd say buy what looks best to you and get a extended warranty.

I have not research about HDTV for 3 yrs now. Does anyone has quick ans to couple questions?

1) The best LED-LCD still has blur motion(When screen action moving fast?) problem?

2) Panasonic has TV shut down issues, what are some of the issues Samsung are infamous for?

3) 24p cadence, very important?

Thanks,
sy
post #593 of 693
Hi everyone,

I'm pretty new to the HDTV flat-panel scene. I recently got a Sharp LC60835U as my first flat-panel, but I'm sending that back to Amazon since I didn't like the non-uniform brightness of the screen. And since that seems to be a problem with most LED-LCD TVs, I've decided to try a plasma, and I've narrowed it down to either the Samsung PN64D8000 or Panasonic TC65VT30. But I'm having a hard time making a decision on some issues I haven't seen heavily discussed before, especially since there's only ~$400 difference right now between the two on Amazon, so I thought I'd solicit others' opinions and advice:

1.) I don't have a home theater setup, so I'm relying on the built-in TV speakers for sound. But which one is better? The Panasonic has a built-in subwoofer and has listed more powerful speakers, so I'd assume it has better sound, but can anyone confirm or deny that?

2.) I kinda like the "soap opera" effect of the dejudder on my Sharp LED-LCD, but the Samsung doesn't have dejudder processing whereas the Panasonic does. At least according to CNET. Does this make any difference in motion processing between the two, since they're plasma? Or is the Samsung's CinemaSmooth the same thing as a dejudder processor?

3.) I like that the Samsung has a swivel stand and seems to have a better media player that can read NTFS partitioned drives, which is an advantage over the Panasonic. But if the Panasonic has better sound quality, motion processing, and black levels, is this worth the higher cost when it lacks the aforementioned advantages of the Samsung?

Thanks all for your input!
post #594 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwazeo View Post

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty new to the HDTV flat-panel scene. I recently got a Sharp LC60835U as my first flat-panel, but I'm sending that back to Amazon since I didn't like the non-uniform brightness of the screen. And since that seems to be a problem with most LED-LCD TVs, I've decided to try a plasma, and I've narrowed it down to either the Samsung PN64D8000 or Panasonic TC65VT30. But I'm having a hard time making a decision on some issues I haven't seen heavily discussed before, especially since there's only ~$400 difference right now between the two on Amazon, so I thought I'd solicit others' opinions and advice:

1.) I don't have a home theater setup, so I'm relying on the built-in TV speakers for sound. But which one is better? The Panasonic has a built-in subwoofer and has listed more powerful speakers, so I'd assume it has better sound, but can anyone confirm or deny that?

2.) I kinda like the "soap opera" effect of the dejudder on my Sharp LED-LCD, but the Samsung doesn't have dejudder processing whereas the Panasonic does. At least according to CNET. Does this make any difference in motion processing between the two, since they're plasma? Or is the Samsung's CinemaSmooth the same thing as a dejudder processor?

3.) I like that the Samsung has a swivel stand and seems to have a better media player that can read NTFS partitioned drives, which is an advantage over the Panasonic. But if the Panasonic has better sound quality, motion processing, and black levels, is this worth the higher cost when it lacks the aforementioned advantages of the Samsung?

Thanks all for your input!

I'd go with the VT30. Both TVs comes with issues of their own, as long as you don't go looking for them you'll be happy. I purchased the UN558000 LED sammy, and like you, I wasn't happy with the non-uniform brightness so I exchanged it for a 55VT30. The VT30 does not have that vibrant color the LED had (which caught my wife's eyes and override my decision to buy the VT30 the first time around), but once you set it up you will start to appreciate the smooth motion and the more accurate colors are easier on the eye. The vt30 has a THX mode for 2D and 3D which is pretty close to a calibrated screen - although not perfect. So if you don't plan to calibrate your screen anytime soon, the THX mode helps a lot.

The Samsung PND8000, although looks flashy with the thinner bezel, I wasn't really impress with it. The TV at BestBuy was showing Megamind (Again my wife likes the vibrant and flashy color) and I asked them to switch it to a movie (TRON) and compare it with the VT30. If you are using the display for OTA/Cable shows it's fine, but once you put in movies with dark scenes like Dark Knight and Tron? This is where the VT30 really shine. Not to say that the Sammy plasma can't do it, but if you put the Samsung PND8000 into 1080p/24 mode, the blacks will not compare to the VT30.

In a nutshell, if you watch a lot of cartoons and TV shows, the Samsung is a fine choice. If you are using it for watching movies, VT30 all the way. And since you are not using a speaker system, the VT30 will have slightly better sound. I wouldn't worry too much about the media player. I'd think that you plan to get a BD-player which is where you can select a player with better media playing capabilities. I always thought the SmartTV thing is overrated. I can definetly see it for smaller tvs that goes in the bedroom or smaller places, but large TVs? Most people will use a media box like PS3 or Bluray Player.
post #595 of 693
Yes, But what about the 1080p/24 issue with the Samsung PND 8000/7000? Panny VT30
has that aspect beat I believe!

Shad
post #596 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme22 View Post

Well i have the D8000 and the Vt30 well not anymore returned the Vt30 i was more impressed by my D8000, and as far as cnet reviews go on the black issues
i dont trust them with a 10 feet pole, so i took matters in to my own hands and
bought both, for less than 30days since i work for Bestbuy, thank goodness
but they are 2 great sets but in my eye the D8000 came out shining PQ on my 59inch was wow my friend owns a Kuro and he even was impressed more by the D8000 than the VT30, so what does that tell you


Yes, But what about the 1080P/24 issue with the Samsung's?
post #597 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubbo07 View Post

I'd go with the VT30. Both TVs comes with issues of their own, as long as you don't go looking for them you'll be happy. I purchased the UN558000 LED sammy, and like you, I wasn't happy with the non-uniform brightness so I exchanged it for a 55VT30. The VT30 does not have that vibrant color the LED had (which caught my wife's eyes and override my decision to buy the VT30 the first time around), but once you set it up you will start to appreciate the smooth motion and the more accurate colors are easier on the eye. The vt30 has a THX mode for 2D and 3D which is pretty close to a calibrated screen - although not perfect. So if you don't plan to calibrate your screen anytime soon, the THX mode helps a lot.

The Samsung PND8000, although looks flashy with the thinner bezel, I wasn't really impress with it. The TV at BestBuy was showing Megamind (Again my wife likes the vibrant and flashy color) and I asked them to switch it to a movie (TRON) and compare it with the VT30. If you are using the display for OTA/Cable shows it's fine, but once you put in movies with dark scenes like Dark Knight and Tron? This is where the VT30 really shine. Not to say that the Sammy plasma can't do it, but if you put the Samsung PND8000 into 1080p/24 mode, the blacks will not compare to the VT30.

In a nutshell, if you watch a lot of cartoons and TV shows, the Samsung is a fine choice. If you are using it for watching movies, VT30 all the way. And since you are not using a speaker system, the VT30 will have slightly better sound. I wouldn't worry too much about the media player. I'd think that you plan to get a BD-player which is where you can select a player with better media playing capabilities. I always thought the SmartTV thing is overrated. I can definetly see it for smaller tvs that goes in the bedroom or smaller places, but large TVs? Most people will use a media box like PS3 or Bluray Player.


Another point I gather from these posts is the questionable build/reliability quality of the Samsung 7000/8000? And also, what about the anti reflective screen peeling issue on the Sammy's? And, 1080P/24 issue? I have not heard any definitive answers to these questions???? Who want to buy an expensive TV to just have problems!

Anyone have updtaed or current information on these 3 issues?

Shad
post #598 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadmeister66 View Post

Another point I gather from these posts is the questionable build/reliability quality of the Samsung 7000/8000? And also, what about the anti reflective screen peeling issue on the Sammy's? And, 1080P/24 issue? I have not heard any definitive answers to these questions???? Who want to buy an expensive TV to just have problems!

Anyone have updtaed or current information on these 3 issues?

Shad

It sounds to me like you are a Samsung basher who is chasing around these threads trying to pick a fight about what TV people prefer.

Both VT30 and D8000 have strengths and weaknesses. Prioritize what matters to you most to make a decision and stop harping on and on about one vendors problems and ignoring problems the other one has.
post #599 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadmeister66 View Post

And also, what about the anti reflective screen peeling issue on the Sammy's? Shad

Samsung is well aware of the peeling issue, and they are fixing customers TV's as they are reported, and my understanding is the newer TVs will not have this issue.
post #600 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It sounds to me like you are a Samsung basher who is chasing around these threads trying to pick a fight about what TV people prefer.

Actually, it sounds like he wants to invest in a new television, but he is left hoodwinked because of the flaws in the Samsung television.
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