Need help choosing speakers for dedicated HT

I think in your budget, but your front speakers will be very nice, your surrounds are not appropriate and eating up too much of your budget. A nice looking alternative to those klipsch in that price range would be Chase Home Theater PRO 10s, but if you need in-walls, I don't think you can do better with that budget. As for a amp/speaker budget ratio, this can really depend on the situation, but I would say most here would tell you to spend twice on your speakers than what you do on your AVR/amp. I have to agree for the most part.

I think you are badly shortchanging your system on the subwoofer though. From my perspective, you are spending way too much on speakers/receiver and leaving not enough for bass. You are especially spending too much on the surround speakers. Also, I would not use bipole speakers for a 7 channel system unless your room is especially huge, which it isn't. For 7 channels, I would go with bookshelf speakers. I wouldn't go with anything larger or more expensive than Klipsch RB-51s. Hell, I think even RB-41s would suffice for rears and sides.

If you really want to knock people's socks off, you will need to get serious about bass. I would go for two subs in that room. A powerful inexpensive solution would be two Elemental Designs A3-300s, that would be 1100 shipped, and should properly pressurize that room. For a bit more output and deep bass, get two A5-350s or two A7s-450s. A Hsu VTF-15H would also be a beast in that room. A couple CHT Craigsub 18.1s would also be a killer sub system for the current clearance price. Anyway, the point is you seriously need to go down a couple notches on the surrounds and AVR and up a couple notches on the subwoofers.

Aside from that, I think your theater is going to be terrific.

Just to throw a twist.... you might consider looking at the Klipsch used market. You can get some serious sound for excellent value. I'm referring to the Cornwalls/LaScalas/Khorns in particular.

Regardless, good luck with your project!

The reason to double up on the subs is not for more output, it will only get you a modest gain in loudness. It is for more even room coverage and frequency response. Often what single sub system do is leave a bass null in the center of the room because it doesn't have enough displacement to pressurize the room. In such a setup, the only place you hear any decent bass at all is around the room boundaries, such as along the walls and in the corner, and in the middle of the room you can barely hear bass at all. Multiple sub systems go a long way toward fixing this problem, and they also make for a more even frequency response over the entire room so you don't get as many nasty peaks and dips all over the room.

I'm not sure quite what you mean by the Hsu 18.1, I think you are mixing your sub modals there. If you meant the Hsu VTF-15H, I think that alone might have enough power to energize the entire room. The Craigsub 18.1 might have enough power as well, but I think that would work better in a pair. Two Hsu VTF-15Hs would be insane. But Awesome.

As for the AVR, you don't need a really powerful amplifier for Klipsch speakers, they will blaze even with a medium level receiver. Don't buy an AVR for the extra juice it has in the amp, it won't make a difference. I think an Onkyo tx-sr708 or denon 3310ci would be sufficient. The Onkyo Tx-sr3008 is a very nice receiver, it has a bunch of nice room correction features the others don't, but it eats too much into your budget that ought to go to subwoofers. If you had low ohm speakers, than it would be time to get a separate amplifier, but those AVR amps will drive the Klipsch speakers just fine.

By the way, if you want to save a bit more money, I think these bookshelf speakers would work just as well as the Klipsch for surround speakers, while shaving off a couple hundred for a set of four. They are very high sensitivity speakers that will be just as easy to drive as the klipsch and ought to sound fine for surround duty.

Use at least 2 subs in that room. This past week at our office we did a JVC projector show and we threw together the audio portion and it had a pretty good sound.

Denon 3311 used as a pre/pro
Parasound 5250 amp - Denon and Parasound $4050
Boston acoustic speakers package (A360, A25, A225C) $1400
2 Velodyne DEQ 10R - $699 ea

I think the BICs will work well for you for surrounds, and their horn tweeter should match up with the Klipsch very well. I don't think they would have the detail and accuracy of a Klipsch Reference bookshelf speaker, so I would be hesitant to use them for the frontstage, but they are more than good enough for surround speakers. Hell, they are probably better than most system's front stage speakers though, I'm sure they will absolutely rock as surrounds.

One thing to note however, is that they are probably rear-ported speakers, so you won't want to put them right up against a wall. If you get them, make sure you have a inch or two behind them as you mount them so those ports can breath a bit. By the way, some very good wall mounts are the AM40 Pinpoint side-clamping wall mounts. They are a little pricier than other cheaper wall mounts but they are much better in quality, and they won't require you to drill holes in the speaker like other mounts do. If you are looking for some mounts, I would strongly recommend those.

As for stuffing a regular speaker in a wall, I can't really recommend that. Most speakers are designed to sound good with space around them. Read about stand-off distances for speakers. In-walls, on the other hand, have the surrounding surface reflection factored in their design. You idea might work with some speakers though, but you'll have to ask around about people who have had luck with that.

By the way, a cheaper alternative to the 5502 might be the Hsu HIW-1. It is about half the price of the 5502s. If the HIW are as good as their bookshelf sibling, the Hsu HB-1, then they may work well for you, although I don't think it would be quite as powerful as the Klipsch speaker. If you lean toward the Hsu in-walls, I think Hsu would give you a discount on their subs too, much like their other speaker/sub packages, so it would be worth asking about that- a couple VTF2s or VTF3s would blaze in there.

I just noticed these postings and would like add I few comments. I think that you are receiving some very competent advice.

Your home theater is about the same size as mine. In my opinion, you can stay well below your budget and get excellent sound that will "knock your socks off." First, as far as receivers go, I have auditioned a few lately including, Yamaha, Denon, and Integra (same company as Onkyo). All 3 really sounded terrific. However, the Yamaha was more difficult to set up and the owners manual was a disaster area. The Denon was very easy. The Integra was easy. However, the Audyssey room correction was not accurate in setting the appropriate crossover points. I also didn't agree with its equalization setting. However, it didn't make my setup sound bad. I just set it up manually using a cheap sound level meter from Radio Shack. I recommend that you do not automatically let the receiver set things up.

Before buying an AV receiver, I strongly recommend you download the one you're thinking about getting first. See if it is understandable.

A friend of mine owns a home theater store and is able to get Integra receivers that are refurbished and come with a 2 year warranty. The one I tested was a refurb, but looked and worked like new. The prices on these are really low.

As far as speakers go, I am not here to promote ours, but I think you can get excellent results with a 7.1 system under $3,000. The comment about 1 sub vs 2 may be corrected depending on your rooms particular acoustical characteristics. I would start out with one subwoofer and only go to 2 if you need to.

I also think that you can mount regular speakers in the wall. I did with good results. However, you need to make sure there is no cavity around the speaker. If there is, it needs to be packed with acoustical material. Speaking of acoustical material, have you planned for any on the walls of your theater?

Regards,
Howard
RSL Speakers

In my opinion, putting the proper acoustical treatment on your walls may make more of a difference in the sound than your choice of speakers. Also, unless you take extraordinary measures (such as those recommended by an acoustical consultant), the people upstairs will definitely feel the bass.

As far as in-wall or in-ceiling goes, most of the time we configure a system for our customers that utilize them, it's almost always for the sides and rears. 80% of the time or more they use our box satellites for the L,C &Rs. If you go that route, make sure the sound characteristics of the in-walls match the other speakers.

Regards,
Howard
RSL Speakers

My 2 cents...

Find a B&W dealer that has their Custom Theater line that you can listen to, specifically the CT 7.5s ($600 each). If you can't find them then find a dealer that has the 683 towers, most BB Magnolia stores should have them, and listen to those towers and realize that the CT 7.5s are BETTER sounding speakers AND they are meant to go into walls!

They are not in walls though, but they are designed so you can recess them into walls and still sound good. So you could build a small fake wall and place the speakers behind that wall, cover it with black speaker cloth and have a great looking wall for your screen with awesome speakers behind it. You can hide your sub behind that wall too, if the wall is deep enough.

For surrounds use either the CWM663 at $374 each or the cheaper 664 at $274 each. These are in walls that should match well with the CT speakers.

So you are looking at less than $3500 for a 7.0 system. Add to that your sub of choice and a nice AVR and you are good to go.

As for an AVR I would go for a nice one in the $500-700 range (with pre-outs) and then get a 3 channel amp to drive your LCR speakers since that is 90% of the sound and then use the AVR to drive the surround speakers.

Due to the limited depth of the room, I'm planning on in-wall LCR's behind an AT 2.35:1 screen.

Forget the LCR in wall front speakers! Just pull your screen forward another 12-18", then place LCR's a couple inches behind screen. Then calculate your screen width based on new viewing distances. Rule of thumb: screen width (2:35:1) = viewing distance to first row. Have you calculated your viewing angles?

I think that a good AVR like an Integra has all the amplification you need. I also think that you don't need to have speakers behind a screen and have a perforated screen. There are speakers out there that image terrifically from the sides of the screen. I would try to avoid in-walls in front.

Regards,
Howard
RSL Speakers

A couple of things. In my home theater my first row is as close or closer than yours. It's not perfect, but it's OK.

As far as whether you can put the center below the screen and the left and rights in the corner, I say yes! I know that some of you may disagree.

As you may know, I am in the speaker business and I think that it is unethical for a company to use the forum for promotional purposes. In our case, we sell enough product to not have to resort to that kind of thing. With that being said, in my home theater, not only do I have our left & right speakers close to the corners, but all 3 (LCRs) are close to the floor on small stands that angle them back.

Mark Elson of Home Entertainment did a review http://www.hemagazine.com/node/22486 . You can refer to second to last paragraph that starts with: "I promised a surprise......"

I'm sure that there are other speakers that will also work well. I'd suggest looking for the smallest possible speakers as the smallest woofers will image the best. However, they need to handle a lot of power and be flat to below 100 Hz to perfectly blend with the subwoofer.

If you're ever in So. California, I'd be happy to demo my theater to prove what I'm saying. BTW, if you want to see what it looks like:

http://www.hometheaterdesignmag.com/...sci-fi-theater

One more offer. We wrote an elaborate owners manual that really gets into subwoofer placement and set up. If you want a free copy, the best way is to go on to our website and either call and ask for me (Howard) or fill out a contact form and mention that you're from the AVS forum.

Regards,
Howard

RSL Speakers

I place my center right below my screen, it works fine for me. I don't notice much in the way of a distracting directionality, but maybe that's because I am not really listening for it when I am watching a movie. Others here will disagree, but I think you can place your center below the screen with little damage to your front soundstage, as long as the speaker is 'aimed' at the listener's ear level. One thing I will say though, I don't know how that will act on the listeners in your second row, as I don't have a second row in my home theater.

When I opened the forum window, it indicated a message from you. However, my pop-up blocker prevented from opening and when I enabled pop-ups, it was too late and I never was able to retrieve your message. Could you re-send or send it through our website?
Regards,
Howard
RSL Speakers

To address your question, in my theater I am usually always sitting in the back row on the side, because it's nearest the equipment in case I need to adjust something. The sound is just fine as it is from any of the 8 seats. The only real difference is the bass volume will vary. However, it isn't a problem, because it is adequate in all positions and not overwhelming in any.