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Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

What amp are you using? have you taken FR measurements in you room. how do you have your caps hooked up? There is not a single more capable ported sub commericially available than the JTR captivator that I know about. I suspect a setup problem is what you are dealing with if the Captivaotrs were beat by a couple of bp2000tls. I've heard Gorilla83's definitive tech towers with the powered subs and the caps put the defininitve tech subs to shame. Gorilla83 has nice Def Tech towers and he also owns a pair of caps. I'm sure he'll attest. It'll be a shame if you sell of the caps to 'downgrade' because of a setup problem. Gorilla83 discovered that if he runs the definitive tech subs and the caps at the same time he has a severe phase issue, and so we ran them a/b to check and both sounded louder seperately than when they were playing together. Another friend of mine counsil has the flagship definiitive tech speakers and he just turns off the subs because his seaton submersives are much better than the 18" subs in his Def Tech towers. Head over the JTR cap thread and lets get you straighted out and fixed up rather than selling off the caps.

As Archaea said, you definitely have a problem. I had the BP3000s (the 18" version up from yours) and there was simply no comparison between them and my caps. Output, extension, and SQ were overall beasted by the Caps. I recently sold the 3000's and replaced them with BP30s (same mains, no subs) and it sounds phenomenal.

Don't get me wrong, the 3000s sounded great for what they were - considering I picked up the set for 800 used. biggrin.gif If the JTRs didn't outperform them I would be seriously upset!
post #242 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

If you have a chance, I'm interested to see if you notice the same thing I have in two different rooms...

 

Does the outlaw seem to 'shake' the couch/body more than the sealed subs? Play the grid entry for Tron Legacy...good test for what I'm describing.

 

hey cel, did you ever get a chance to test this? Curious about your impressions between the two...
post #243 of 830
I'm thinking about adding two 18.2's with the dayton amps to my single velo DD-15. I have 9 channels of JTR being built currently and there is no way my current base setup will keep up. Room is 3850 cubic feet sealed and fully treated. Is this .3 setup "enough"!? Anything more capable for 3k? (not interested in DIY)
post #244 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady84 View Post

I'm thinking about adding two 18.2's with the dayton amps to my single velo DD-15. I have 9 channels of JTR being built currently and there is no way my current base setup will keep up. Room is 3850 cubic feet sealed and fully treated. Is this .3 setup "enough"!? Anything more capable for 3k? (not interested in DIY)

In your room, with this type of 'supplementation' you would be best off selling or moving the DD-15 to another area and letting the 18.2's take charge. They're very capable performers and would only be held back by the DD-15.

Another option is a pair of the passive JTR Captivators and a pro-amp of your choice. This would be a little over 3k, but well worth the expenditure. I've owned both the CHT and JTR products and they're both very well built.
post #245 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

hey cel, did you ever get a chance to test this? Curious about your impressions between the two...

I like the sound of these, even though I haven't quite gotten them setup correctly yet. I have to find a few hours. Kind of slow to do with a RS meter. LOL
post #246 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


I like the sound of these, even though I haven't quite gotten them setup correctly yet. I have to find a few hours. Kind of slow to do with a RS meter. LOL

I am interested in hearing a direct comparison, but what I'm most interested in is if your outlaw has more 'shake' factor in your room compared to a CHT....

post #247 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

I am interested in hearing a direct comparison, but what I'm most interested in is if your outlaw has more 'shake' factor in your room compared to a CHT....

Not all. If anything, the CHTs sometimes make it seems like the walls are coming down. And I'm getting vibrations at a very low frequency in a window all the way across the room that I wasn't getting before that I can't seem to fix. LOL
post #248 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

I am interested in hearing a direct comparison, but what I'm most interested in is if your outlaw has more 'shake' factor in your room compared to a CHT....

For what its worth my new dual vs18.1's deliver much more impact or "shake factor" than my outlaw lfm1-ex did. I think that was to be expected though moving up to the much larger ported 18's.
post #249 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVrebel View Post

Realized this is 2m measurement... Adjusting my guess to 110 dB.

Results are in biggrin.gif

It looks like my guess is in between the actual measurements depending whether you use a pro amp or the bash amp (Sub 1). I win nothing, but it is nice to have numbers to compare agains the others on data-bass.com.

Great work Ricci. biggrin.gif.... This post was put up on the cht site today by the owner craig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub@chasehometheater.com View Post

Hi all - I received an email today from Josh, and the results are done on the VS-18.1.

Josh tested the unit as both a passive subwoofer with a pro-audio amp and with our new SUB1 BASH amp.

1. The VS-18.1 is $700 as a passive unit
2. The VS-18.1 is $1095 with the SUB1
3. The VS-18.1 pair is $1745 with the SUB 1

A Sub1 used with a pair of VS-18.1's will yield 5 dB more SPL than the single - the Sub1 does not quite "double down" in the lower impedence.

We asked Josh to test the unit both as a passive subwoofer and an "active" subwoofer with the SUB1 because we wanted to give people an idea regarding both ways to incorporate a VS-18.1 (or duals/quads).

One question was "how much performance will I give up by going with the BASH amp over a pro amp"?

Here are the CEA-2010 numbers from Josh for both Passive and SUB1 driven units:

Frequency ....... Passive VS-18.1 ......... VS-18.1 & SUB1
16 Hz .................. 101.4 dB .................... 101.3 dB
20 Hz .................. 111.1 dB .................... 107.4 dB
25 Hz .................. 113.9 dB .................... 112 dB
31.5 Hz ............... 116.1 dB .................... 116 dB
40 Hz .................. 119.2 dB .................... 118.1 dB
50 Hz .................. 121.8 dB .................... 117.8 dB
63 Hz .................. 121.5 dB .................... 117.2 dB

Avg. 16-63 Hz ........ 115.1 dB ................... 112.8 dB

These numbers match up well with both Apollonio's test using the Dayton amp, and also with our results here.

A pro-amp does deliver more SPL.

A SUB-1 does quite well, and has the benefit of having no fan, is bullet proof and comes with a 5 year warranty.

I have limited the report to 16-63 Hz for now, because this is the "wheelhouse" for a subwoofer system.

The SUB-1 is much more limited in the 80-125 Hz range, in comparison to the pro amp.

When all the results are compiled, I think analysis will show that the concept of allowing both options (passive or with a SUB-1 amp) makes a lot of sense.

Right now, I am sure a lot of guys are heading to Data-Bass to look at some CEA numbers on other subwoofers!
__________________
We make theaters affordable and fun!
post #250 of 830
That is very impressive performance for $1095 w/sub1 amp (not sure what the delivery charge is, but looks like around $1240?

Nice... A pair of these bad boys would put out some serious bass.. But these cabinets are massive!
post #251 of 830
They absolutely put out some serious bass in my 3500cu. ft. room. The cabinets are substantial but I am not sure how you get an 18" ported cabinet in a much smaller form factor and with price/performance to beat or exceed.
post #252 of 830
It looks like Ricci has added a bit more information to this over on CHT's site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci@chasehometheater.com View Post

I should have all of the stuff up on Data-Bass shortly.

As regards the CEA-2010 testing.
If you look at the output differences between using the Sub1 and the pro amp there is not a lot of difference between 16-40Hz. Only a dB or so except at 20 and 25Hz. The differences in that range are because that is where driver excursion is minimized near the port tuning (Especially at 20Hz.) so it can take more power than at other frequencies. The small differences at 16, 31.5 and 40Hz indicate that the VS18.1 driver can't make use of much more power at these frequencies. This points to the Sub1 being a good match for the VS18.1 with just the right amount of power to get everything out of the cabinet below 40Hz without running it into the danger zone. The only distress noises I could get from the VS18.1 with the Sub1 were when it was driven very hard below tuning. It should be a bulletproof combo in practice.

Now at 50Hz and above the driver excursion continues to drop which allows more and more input power to be applied during the bursts with the pro amp which is why you will see greatly increased output 50-125Hz versus with the Sub1 amp. However the danger here is that the amount of voltage applied at the top end bass frequencies during the CEA-2010 bursts would easily blow apart the driver if applied at too low of a frequency or fry the coil if applied for more than a few seconds so the application of a herculean sized pro amp to the VS18.1 is a dangerous proposition unless careful set-up of HPF and limiting circuits is employed. Long story short... The VS18.1 has a rather good sensitivity and really doesn't need anymore than a pro amp with 500-800w per cab to extract the best it has to give. Anymore might be getting into the danger zone.

The amplifier used for testing is a Powersoft K10 on a 240v 50a ac line, bridged. .
post #253 of 830
I'm really late to the party here, but I'm also a very happy owner of a pair of CHT VS18.1's. biggrin.gif

I've actually had them for awhile now, I posted my impressions of them and a bunch of other stuff on em in case anyone is interested over at the CHT forum.


https://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4705

I kind of stopped hanging out in the sub section of AVS a long time ago, but heard about the results of the Josh Ricci tests on the VS18.1, so I just thought I'd pop in and post a bit.
post #254 of 830
A surprising development at ChaseHT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub 
As I type this, It was just announced that Barack Hussein Obama has won Ohio. This makes it impossible for Romney to win the presidency.



My first decision as a business owner will be to sell off the remaining inventory of Chase Home Theater and to close down the company.



Thank you all for an interesting 4 years.
See the thread titled "The Recipient Class has won and now it is time to close our doors" on their website for more information.

mod edit: Political statements taken of Chase's annoucement.
post #255 of 830
Wow. I know Craig feels strongly about the situation, but wasn't expecting that. Hoping he reconsiders, it's always nice to have another American option out there.
post #256 of 830
IMO, the products offered by ChaseHT were/are solid performers as well as good value for the money, and owners - including me - have generally had nothing but good things to say about them. From this perspective, it's a shame that ChaseHT is shutting down.
post #257 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, the products offered by ChaseHT were/are solid performers as well as good value for the money, and owners - including me - have generally had nothing but good things to say about them. From this perspective, it's a shame that ChaseHT is shutting down.

Indeed. I was genuinely impressed with Ricci's measurements of the VS18.1. That's a boatload of bang for the buck.
post #258 of 830
Agreed that many here may disagree with Craig's opinions, policies, and behavior at times - and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I think I speak for the majority when I say that no one wants another American ID company to close it's doors - especially when not absolutely necessary. Have another option in this small community is never a bad thing.
post #259 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Agreed that many here may disagree with Craig's opinions, policies, and behavior at times - and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I think I speak for the majority when I say that no one wants another American ID company to close it's doors - especially when not absolutely necessary. Have another option in this small community is never a bad thing.

Actually I think there are some people that did want to see CHT fail. So I am sure they are not upset about this news at all. Pathetic, but true.
post #260 of 830
Politics have no place at AVS. Keep the discussions to a tech. level on the product.
post #261 of 830
IIRC, there was some mention that his brother would be phasing out his assistance at some point in the future which might make assembly of the products problematical. Further CC had mentioned something about 50 amps possibly being held up in Customs (no Made in Wherever sticker?). Some may recall a similar situation occurred with the WAF-1's that resulted in a rather substantial fine. Just saying these might well be strongly mitigating factors in his thinking.
post #262 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Agreed that many here may disagree with Craig's opinions, policies, and behavior at times - and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I think I speak for the majority when I say that no one wants another American ID company to close it's doors - especially when not absolutely necessary. Have another option in this small community is never a bad thing.

Oh please, this "closure" was voluntary and the reasons are specious at best. I guess all of those CHT customers with warranty issues will just have to figure out something on their own since the founder has decided to close his business and leave them in the lurch because of an election result?. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny ... rolleyes.gif
post #263 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1908 View Post

+1

I want to see him close his Ford dealership because of the election:rolleyes:


Do you think closing down one of his business wasn’t enough for you?rolleyes.gif
You wish him close down another business, which put hundred more people out of work. Does that make you feel better?
You have so much anger that can drown out our logical thinking processes. You might be in emotionally distraught, and you need help.

BTW, I don’t know who the heck Craig Chase is and what problem people have with him, but I hate to see the guy down, and people kicking him around.
post #264 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Oh please, this "closure" was voluntary and the reasons are specious at best. I guess all of those CHT customers with warranty issues will just have to figure out something on their own since the founder has decided to close his business and leave them in the lurch because of an election result?. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny ... rolleyes.gif


Some obviously didn't read the thread that states in bold that all warranties will be honored.
post #265 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I guess all of those CHT customers with warranty issues will just have to figure out something on their own since the founder has decided to close his business and leave them in the lurch because of an election result?.

You guessed wrong, but your intent in this thread is easy to guess at...

You are doing a disservice to the community by posting in this fashion.
post #266 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

Some obviously didn't read the thread that states in bold that all warranties will be honored.

+1

I read the thread through this afternoon, and Craig did state that. I suspect that he will. His brother still has his speaker business, so Craig probably has the means to support warranties until they expire.

And as Chu Gai pointed out, CHT is having problems with getting their amps shipped from over seas. Over at CHT, it was mentioned that his brother was offered the business and refused, so this was probably not a sudden decision. I suspect that there is more than just the presidential election going on here in this decision making (seems more like Craig might be using the opportunity to make a political statement).

People forget that our economy is still struggling from the downturn--still major foreclosures going on in some states and other business losses that are a result of the initial downturns after effects. It's unfortunate that there is another casualty from that in the home audio industry, particularly from a small vendor that puts out a good product. It just limits our options. I worry about that and Vanns's bankruptcy and what that means for the future of home audio.
post #267 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1908 View Post

+1

I want to see him close his Ford dealership because of the election:rolleyes:

Actually I believe that he is reducing staff at his dealership.. Becareful what you wish for karma can be a bitch...
post #268 of 830
Real class act.

Heres a hint for small business owners, dont try to BS people with politics because all it does is alienate your customers. Imagine if you were a CHT owner who had stood up for his products on this forum and then craig effectively blamed you for the closure of his business? I would be livid. The man has no one to blame but himself.
post #269 of 830
I have all the sympathy, empathy, whatever for folks who must deal with the myriad of regulations and laws while running a business. Depending upon where you are it can even preclude thinking about starting some sort of enterprise. On the other hand for those who undertake to do so, the good or service will have to be priced in such a way to absorb the ancillary costs.

That said, according to CC, he derives his livelihood from owning several car dealerships as well as a financial services company. The venture into audio was an attempt to commercialize his interests in his hobby. And therein lies a fundamental difference between what he's done compared to people like Seaton. Fabrikant, Colquhoun, and others. For them this is the source of their livelihood and not some part time enterprise. Their success depends upon understanding and coping with these laws and regulations. It's not a hobby. It's how they provide for themselves and their family. Whose got it worse in the US than DF who has to cope with California? Canada's no picnic either. As for Chase, he has stated that takes no salary. Some may feel that's eminently laudable. There are downsides to this approach to be sure.

It means that you can only spend a relatively small amount of time running the audio business. If you try and be all things, often times you wind up not doing any of them well resulting in both failures and missteps. Examples include...
  • the problematical and poorly received Gizamo, OK, mistakes and misjudging the marketplace happen.
  • the stodgy WAF-1's with the poorly finished grill that would decide to come off depending on the relative humidity. I suspect there were people who could not get warranty replacement grills that stayed on. Further one has the monumental fiasco of US Customs detaining and subsequently fining CHT because speakers that were bought and paid for lacked required Country of Origin labeling.
  • the first batch of high sensitivity speakers that had miswired, modified Eminence crossovers.
  • the batches of speakers and subs that were improperly packaged resulting in damage which was conveniently blamed on shipping companies.
  • the speakers and subs that survived the improper packaging but had cardboard abrasion damage.
  • the speakers and subs that were said to use the superior Baltic Birch but were amateurishly finished with uneven coating coverage, nail holes, etc.
  • the hoped for and talked about subs with the LMS drivers which had sundry excuses for not reacing commercialization.
  • the peppering of AVS in-boxes with messages to anyone who raised issues.
  • the reliance upon his brother's warehouse to act as a staging area for assembly. When the brother says he really doesn't want to do this anymore.
  • the setting up of a Facebook page or a Twitter account or whatever does not bring one into the social media arena. They have to be managed, leveraged, and you just might need some company to show you how to do that. That costs monies.
  • etc.


Certainly it would be unfair to say the products didn't eventually get better. Ricci's work at least lends some validity to their performance capability. And it would be unfair to say the products were not priced low. But when prices are low, you're counting on a lot of things working just right. After all, if you were to take a salary, you'd have to price them higher especially if that salary was the only one that paid your bills. You'd have to price them higher if you had to pay for proper packaging testing. You'd have to price them higher if you had to rent or lease a building devoted to assembly. You'd have to price them higher if you had to buy forklift trucks, pay for warehouse personnel, and whatever. To my mind, the prices were low because it was a part time effort that relied on things that other businesses didn't.

The thing about having a good paying job or jobs and then opening up a side business is that if you get tired of the side business for whatever reasons, you can just pack it all in and call it a day. That's what's happened here. One can look to lay blame at any number of reasons but if it's your part time gig and you really don't need it to support your family then you never have to think about how to manage these things.
post #270 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Despite the bold print statement, when someone closes up shop and sells off the parts inventory that could make providing warranty support a little difficult, don't you think?

Exactly. That bold print statement has nothing to do with what will be reality and everything to do with selling off remaining stock at retail prices. He had one guy ask about price reductions and stated things are "already at rock bottom prices." If buyers assumed (correctly) that the seven year warranty won't be in force for its term, they'd want the stuff practically for free.

Chris
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