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Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 830
Quote:
Any chance you could post a couple of pics of the new subs? The ChaseHT website still doesn't show their new subs - only the older model (like the one I have) - and I'm really curious to see what the newer front-firing models look like. Thanks!

+1 That would be great!
post #422 of 830
Thanks for the setup tips. I am a little wore out moving the old sub and lugging these things in today. I will post some pic's tomorrow. I will also switch over to the LFE input on the amp. The SQ of the Chase sub is great!!!
post #423 of 830
Here is a pic of the sub on a DYI risers.
DSCN0969.JPG 571k .JPG file

I don't know if any of you believe in risers helping with the sounds, but they sure do make it a lot easier moving these babies around, lol. How do you make the pic's show up in the post?
post #424 of 830
Cool - thanks for the pic! smile.gif

I like the look of that textured finish - it reminds me of the one on the SHO-10s I had for a while. Nice finish. (The speakers weren't too shabby, either... wink.gifbiggrin.gif )

Another question, if you don't mind: The "holes" at the four corners - are they for an available grille, or are they threaded for bolting legs into if you choose to run the sub in a down-firing orientation?

Thanks.
Quote:
How do you make the pic's show up in the post?
- Click on the pencil to edit your post.
- In the menu bar, click on the picture/painting, next to the paperclip.
- In the pop-up window, select "Upload Files" if the pic is on your computer; or "An image URL" if it's somewhere on the Web.

Like this:


biggrin.gif
Edited by eljaycanuck - 5/30/13 at 12:31pm
post #425 of 830
Quote:
Here is a pic of the sub on a DYI risers.

Nice job derrick! I run Klipsch also.. I was very biased against them until I tried them. Thanks for the pic though. cool.gif
post #426 of 830
Thanks eljaycanuck for posting the pic the way that I wanted it. Steve, the screws in the 4 corners are sunk in and are not for a grill. I think Craig said there is not a grill for this sub since most people like to see the driver. I actually like grills on all my speakers. The cone material is very strong and does not look like it can be easily damaged. The only problem that I am having is that there is a noticeable difference in output between the two subs, around 4 or 5 db. I have tried moving the sub a foot or two and facing it a different direction but to no avail. Tomorrow I will switch the two subs and see if that subs output is low where the other sub is sitting. These subs are in a large room.

The Dayton amp is on 2 out of 10 and give a 76 db reading at the listening position of 10 ft from the TV. The sub distance is around 16 ft from the listening position.. The sub in -4 in the avr. There may be a bad null where the one sub is at. Space wise I am limited on placement.
Edited by derrickdj1 - 5/30/13 at 11:49pm
post #427 of 830
The uneven room response is clearing up. I guess the subs are opening up! The bass reading are pretty even on both sides of the room today. I have the drivers facing the wall. This will loaded the drivers and increase efficiency.
Edited by derrickdj1 - 6/1/13 at 8:59pm
post #428 of 830
I don't have REW or other capable software and equipment. I can do a manual frequency sweep and plot a graph. What do I look for to use the amp's equalizer on? For example, if the graph looks like a hill or mountain.
post #429 of 830
If everthing's relative flat aside from a peak, you can use the PEQ to pull the peak down.

If everything's relatively flat aside from a small null, you can use the PEQ to reduce the null. (This is generally not recommended for larger nulls, as the amount of power required to reduce it could over-tax the amp.)
post #430 of 830
Help and suggestions needed!

I setup the two subs and used the Dayton amp for EQ. I know nothing about EQ'ing the subs so be gentle, lol. SS 18.1 Graph.JPG 1867k .JPG file
Test Parameters:
Radio Shack meter on slow and C weight
AVR at -10 and sub level in avr at -4
Peak 35 Hz 101 db
Peak 70-100 Hz 109 db
Null 50 Hz 90 db

Dayton amp settings:
Gain 2
phase 0
xo all the way up

Q 0.5
frequency 20 Hz
leve -4 (-16-6)
Bass boost on and subsonic filter off
Pioneer MCACC engaged
subs 1/8 spaced

See crude attached graph

Thanks for help and suggestions
post #431 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Help and suggestions needed!

I setup the two subs and used the Dayton amp for EQ. I know nothing about EQ'ing the subs so be gentle, lol. SS 18.1 Graph.JPG 1867k .JPG file
Test Parameters:
Radio Shack meter on slow and C weight
AVR at -10 and sub level in avr at -4
Peak 35 Hz 101 db
Peak 70-100 Hz 109 db
Null 50 Hz 90 db

Dayton amp settings:
Gain 2
phase 0
xo all the way up

Q 0.5
frequency 20 Hz
leve -4 (-16-6)
Bass boost on and subsonic filter off
Pioneer MCACC engaged
subs 1/8 spaced

See crude attached graph

Thanks for help and suggestions

Here is your graph:

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

I see lots of problems with this graph. However, before I can comment, I need to know what the "signal" was that was used to generate the graph. It almost looks hand-drawn. Did you use individual test tones, measured by an SPL meter and then graphed on graph paper? If so, what individual test tones did you use? What increments were they in? RealTraps has individual test tones in 1 Hz increments available for free: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm It is perfect for this application.

Did you use any correction factors for your RS SPL meter, or is this the raw response without correction? Which version of the RS SPL meter do you have? There are different correction tables for different versions of the meter. http://www.avsforum.com/t/505236/spl-meter-correction-tables

Next question, would it be possible to pull one of the subs out to the middle of the room and perform a "close mic'd" graph? This will tell us the "baseline response" of the subwoofer with little, if any room interaction. Once we know what the sub's native, (inherent), response is, we can then sort out the room effects from the native response. To do this, place one sub is the middle of the room, as far away from the walls as possible. Turn off or disconnect the speakers and just run the one sub. Turn off all EQ in the amp. Place the mic about an inch from the driver and repeat the above measurements. (You may need to turn the sub volume down so you don't overdrive the SPL meter mic.)

In your list of settings, you have the following: "frequency 20 Hz, leve -4 (-16-6)" What does this mean?

Do you have any way to get setup with REW? The new version uses a USB mic and is supposed to be much simpler to learn and easier to run: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs (See Austin Jerry's tutorial.)

Craig
post #432 of 830
Hi Craig, thanks for taking the time to analyze this and offer help and suggestions. I know the graph is very crude and there appears to be some major problem going on in the room. The graph is hand made after running some test tones that were in increments. For example, 0-19,20-29,30-39..... and had a pink noise for calibration. If I remember correctly, I download the test tones from the REW. No correction was used with the graph which was measured using a analogue Radio Shack meter that is around a year old. The Dayton amp parmetric EQ setting were frequency target 20 Hz (range 18-80 Hz), Bandwidth 0.5(range 0,1-1.0), and level to increase or attenuate the bass -4(range -14 to +6)

My first question, should I correct the graph using the corrections tables so that we are looking at something that is more representative of what is going on. I ran the tones with MCACC on with it standing wave correction in place.

I don't have the PC card or mic for REW which is why I plotted this crude graph just to get an ideal of what is going on in the room. I was looking to knock down a peak or just boost the 20 Hz range. It would be interesting to see what the Dayton amp parametric EQ will add to Pioneer's MCACC subwoofer filters and standing wave control.

I will make a new graph using the Radio Shack correction and post it. I may need to investigate getting the full REW setup.
post #433 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Hi Craig, thanks for taking the time to analyze this and offer help and suggestions. I know the graph is very crude and there appears to be some major problem going on in the room. The graph is hand made after running some test tones that were in increments. For example, 0-19,20-29,30-39..... and had a pink noise for calibration. If I remember correctly, I download the test tones from the REW. No correction was used with the graph which was measured using a analogue Radio Shack meter that is around a year old. The Dayton amp parmetric EQ setting were frequency target 20 Hz (range 18-80 Hz), Bandwidth 0.5(range 0,1-1.0), and level to increase or attenuate the bass -4(range -14 to +6)

My first question, should I correct the graph using the corrections tables so that we are looking at something that is more representative of what is going on. I ran the tones with MCACC on with it standing wave correction in place.

I don't have the PC card or mic for REW which is why I plotted this crude graph just to get an ideal of what is going on in the room. I was looking to knock down a peak or just boost the 20 Hz range. It would be interesting to see what the Dayton amp parametric EQ will add to Pioneer's MCACC subwoofer filters and standing wave control.

I will make a new graph using the Radio Shack correction and post it. I may need to investigate getting the full REW setup.
Hi Derrick,

While the SPL meter response is important, before we get into that whole discussion, I think it's far more important to see exactly what is "subwoofer induced" and what is "room induced" in your graph. The close-mic'd graph will show that. As long as you use the same "correction" for the in-room vs. the close-mic'd measurements, the correction factors will not be a factor.

Please repeat your measurements with the mid-room, close-mic'd technique I previously described. Once we know what the subs are doing, independent of the room, we'll have a far better handle on what in-room measurements are important.

Craig
post #434 of 830
Craig I ran some of the number using the correction tables and it dose not look so bad. There appears to be a peak in the 70-100 Hz band. which I have see with sealed sub. I will adjust the 50 Hz area and broaden it and raise it a little. MCACC can be used to adjust things above 63 Hz.. It will target a frequency, attenuated and adjust the bandwidth. MCACC has 3 filters above 63 Hz for the sub and a trim adjustment. This should get thing pretty flat. I will play around with the EQ the rest of the week and get some new graphs up next week. REW would be much easier and detailed. I will look into getting it.

06-10-2013 21;49;42.JPG 1147k .JPG file
Edited by derrickdj1 - 6/11/13 at 2:18am
post #435 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Craig I ran some of the number using the correction tables and it dose not look so bad. There appears to be a peak in the 70-100 Hz band. which I have see with sealed sub. I will adjust the 50 Hz area and broaden it and raise it a little. MCACC can be used to adjust things above 63 Hz.. It will target a frequency, attenuated and adjust the bandwidth. MCACC has 3 filters above 63 Hz for the sub and a trim adjustment. This should get thing pretty flat. I will play around with the EQ the rest of the week and get some new graphs up next week. REW would be much easier and detailed. I will look into getting it.

06-10-2013 21;49;42.JPG 1147k .JPG file

Hi Derrick,

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

You cut the frequency scale off at the top. Assuming the scale is the same as your other graph, it looks like you have a significant recession from 40 Hz to about 65 Hz. This is likely a room induced recession, (although it's hard to say for sure without seeing a close-mic'd graph to see what the native response of the sub looks like.). Nonetheless, I would play around with subwoofer placement to see if you can improve that part of the graph without EQ. Trying to EQ it would require boost to raise it. I prefer not to use EQ boost if possible. It requires extra amplifier power and driver excursion which reduces headroom and can cause distortion and/or compression. EQ boost should be used as a last resort if you can't improve the recession with placements of the subs.

Craig
post #436 of 830
Thank you for the analysis Craig, I will do the mid room and close mic graph in a day or two due to work schedule. Unfortunately I am fairly limited on placement option but I will look at other possible placement spots.
post #437 of 830
Well I will have to put the Parametric EQ on hold because the Dayton amp from Parts Express malfunction. It started making a grinding sound from the sub so I requested a refund. I brought a Crown XLS 1500 amp which also has more power than the Dayton amp. It does not have EQ but MCACC does a good job with the bass management and the system sounds great. I may add an EQ or try another amp if I am not pleased with the Crown after a week of putting it thru the paces.
post #438 of 830
I have thought about a BFD but, in the little time that I had the Dayton amp, the EQ seemed like it was only useful for decreasing a peak and the 20 Hz bass boost. The Pioneer SC 35 does a good job with the sub down to 63 Hz. I switched the Crown xls 1500 for a 2500. The Crown seems to handle the less than 30 Hz frequencies better and the less than 20 Hz stuff better. I have my avr xo at 80 which is what MCACC picked and the LPF on the sub at 67 Hz. Above 67 Hz, the sub becomes a little more directional. Any suggestion for tweaking the system?
post #439 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

I have thought about a BFD but, in the little time that I had the Dayton amp, the EQ seemed like it was only useful for decreasing a peak and the 20 Hz bass boost. The Pioneer SC 35 does a good job with the sub down to 63 Hz. I switched the Crown xls 1500 for a 2500. The Crown seems to handle the less than 30 Hz frequencies better and the less than 20 Hz stuff better. I have my avr xo at 80 which is what MCACC picked and the LPF on the sub at 67 Hz. Above 67 Hz, the sub becomes a little more directional. Any suggestion for tweaking the system?

mini dsp 2x4 advanced.
post #440 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

mini dsp 2x4 advanced.

Probably best option for the money smile.gif
post #441 of 830
The Berhinger I Nuke 3000 dsp is also a consideration and take back the Crown. and go out to lunch on the savings. I watched The Grey last night and that airplane crash scene is one of the best movies to put these subs thru a workout.
post #442 of 830
I finally got the Berhinger I Nuke 3000 DSP amp. So far I like it because it is relatively easy to dial in the bass and get a nice balance. There are a couple of cons, the fan noise on the unit and since it is a Pro amp the HP filter is at 20 Hz. This is not really that bad for a sealed enclosure if a LR 12 db slope is used. A good bass response can be seen in the low teens. I am using the unit in mono mode 1250 and 2075 an 8/4 0hm load. The amp has selectable filters. XO, PEQ, DEQ, configuration for Bridge, Dual, Stereo, Biamp modes. The MQ 600 amp thru Chase is suppose to go down to 5 Hz with an even power distribution. This would be an advantage for a vented sub. If I decide to keep the amp, a fan mod will be in the future.

The only advantage of the DSP over MCACC so far is the ability to boost the 20 Hz band a cut the 80 Hz band to avoid the mid bass bump at the XO. I will do a frequency sweep to really get a good look at the response. I will also see what the threshold and attack feature do to improve the bass response in DEQ.
Edited by derrickdj1 - 7/9/13 at 8:47pm
post #443 of 830
Anyone know if I need to set limiters on the Berhinger I Nuke 3000 DSP with the SS 18.1's and how do I set them if needed. The amp has threshold, attack, dbs setting and ohm level that I can plug in and it gives a volt or wattage reading. Any help is appreciated, thanks.
post #444 of 830
Anyone know what's up with the Chase forum or CHT in general?

Just tried to drop in and see what's going on and got a page not found message.
post #445 of 830
Looks like they're re-vamping their website. I don't recall seeing anything on their forum recently about it, but I may simply have missed the announcement.
post #446 of 830
The following was posted on another forum this morning.

"Hi all - Our site and forum are down temporarily. After taking the needed dollars to renew for another year, our domain host crashed the site. We have been assured it will be back up later today.


Technology ....rolleyes.gif

Subwoofers ...smile.gif"
post #447 of 830
I tried the Chase site just before coming to this forum. Nice to know it is a technical problem, thanks for sharing the info.
post #448 of 830
So it wasn't a Syrian cyber attack.
post #449 of 830
Alleged Syrian cyber attack. wink.gif

The site's still down, but it's worse than yesterday: The "coming soon" splash page isn't even showing anymore.
post #450 of 830
Maybe his brother did it?
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