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Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 23

post #661 of 830
I have three sho 10's for my lcr speakers and I really have been happy with them. I purchased them new and have not had any problems.

I do have to admit after reading the posts in this thread that many of them are fact based but then admittedly followed by opinions, innuendo and speculation.

One area that I wish we would go after as an av community is the power ratings of av receivers. This may sound off topic but check out most av receiver manufacturers ratings at five or seven channels. Not quite the same as chase but to me bears some similarity.

I am not trying to defend the actions of chase and the tenor now seems to be to at least cautiously see what the new company has to offer.

Again, just my .02 after reading some of the posts and being an actual chase customer.

Dave
post #662 of 830
I hear you on the power rating thing. One thing you've got to keep in mind is that there are particular regulations and procedures in place when it comes to multichannel powere output and these were crafted with the assistance of a consortium of large manufacturers who naturally want to cast their products in a favorable marketing light. I believe that Gene from Audioholics may have written a technical article describing the procedure.

Glad the speakers are meeting your expectations.
post #663 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

At this point you can see the picture coming together. Chase spent time in WinISD screwing around with this Eminence driver trying to find a way to make them marketable. The LMS-5400 was king, he figured he could sell a pair of these things in some cheap cabs for less and the DIY crowd would drool. So since we've got 38mm of xmax on the LMS, and he knew he had ~20mm of xmech on these Eminence drivers to work with, he figured he'd call it 19mm xmax, they could travel that far after all, and nobody would be the wiser. Now a pair matches the displacement if he targets 19mm in his sims, and the only thing lacking is a brutal cliff of a response.

Unfortunately the cat was already out of the bag, after all he had posted that sim showing the steep response and claimed it matched his measurements! Where are we at in that sim, -6dB at 48Hz? Well that just won't do. So we'll use that sim and show it to people when we want to boast "max output" capability, uber superiour midbass slam sensitivity, etc... Then when folks start getting itchy about the response and how this would integrate into a system with some ULF desired, let's chop off that top end of the graph, add a LPF, throw some theoretical hidden EQ to make for a sharp angled awkward naked response and claim we're close enough to the big boy drivers.

With things not quite smelling right, questions arise. More measurements follow, more attempts to doctor things and nothing quite matches up with one another. Why? Oh let's just say there's this or that issue with this measurement rig, hey I'll try another. You know what, I'll do it point by point in TrueRTA. Hey, what about that new fangled Omnimic thing that's all the rage. Well, different systems give different results... facing the sun at different angles and of course in different lunar cycles. It's all quite legitimate and differences are easily explainable and obvious if you have the experience I do.

--

You see, that's why this whole thing matters. When we find out you've obviously played fast and loose with your specifications, admitted it by changing them later and then lied to hide ever having the original "embellishments", suddenly it's not so hard to believe that the rest of the claims along the way may have been tweaked a bit here and there. What is there to believe?

What should we believe going forward and why?

I agree with Chu, very good summary.

The difference in my own case is that I saw the picture immediately. DIY is where I hung out for most of my 11 years ay AVS. No one gets a pass when posting that a pair of 18" Eminence or any other similar driver design can compete with the RE-XXX-18" or the Mal-21" drivers in the DIY forum.

When I asked Chase to post a close mic with no EQ he said he would but then wanted me to post the same of my subs. He then challenged me to bring my subs to Erie and have some sort of showdown. Yeah, I literally fell off the chair laughing when I read that. I think I replied that it would be similar to comparing my subs to a 2"X4" which is irrelevant to my question but he opened that can, I didn't.

Truth is that all of us DIYers have posted accurate measurements of our stuff. There's no way to learn anything by fudging graphs and performance results, and when anyone has tried, he's gotten caviled on it. I've posted accurate measurements of every sub I've built for many years. Naked, with various L/T curves upstream and at the listening position, along with the theory that led to the creation of the L/T curves (many of which I designed and built myself vs buying an off the shelf amp that has a single PEQ bump and calling it a L/T). Why would I be averse to posting that data? Why would anyone?

Well, of course Chase has yet to post the naked response, as he promised me he would. If he did, it would certainly match your measurement and of that fact there is no doubt.

Here is a typical post of a sub I built years ago using the original Tumult MKI. I also posted the measurements smoothed and non-smoothed to satisfy a poster who questioned my smoothing the measurement traces (as I said, you get away with nothing without an explanation in the DIY forum). I also compared my measurement to Ilkka's measurement of a Tumult MKI in a slightly larger sealed box. If you look at it carefully enough, my measurement is actually more accurate because Ilkka's GP measurements usually showed a bump at 10 Hz that wasn't actually there, yielding a 10dB/octave roll off vs my 12dB/octave (all sealed subs) roll off:



Again, this is typical fare in the DIY section, posting actual naked responses vs the model or expected designed outcome, so no big for me and I've posted the results of dozens of subs I've built. This measurement posted above was available long before Chase asked for it. That's why I felt absolutely no reservations about asking Chase for his measurement, being that he was posting in the DIY forum at that time. The negative reaction from Chase in PM for this simple request still has me scratching my head.

To date, this is what I got from Chase; various modeled and measured frequency response graphs. Here are 6 of them, all normalized and placed on a single graph:



Will the real Chase sealed sub frequency response please stand up?

Others are free to take the experience any way they wish, but my takeaway is that I will never be able to trust anything technical from the pen of Chase. he either doesn't know or can't. If there's a 3rd possibility, maybe he can post THAT on his forum instead of going on about me and nfrasco.
post #664 of 830
post #665 of 830
One last post from me...smile.gif

I spent hours trying to improve the low end of my CHT subwoofers and trying to figure out why my Polk book shelf speakers were set to a lower crossover than the Pro-10 speakers from CHT...maybe I should have googled my driver 3 years ago instead of doing it today:



I guess I should have trusted Audyssey a lot more than listening to Chase...if Audyssey is looking for the -3dB point than 120Hz to 150Hz looks about right to me.

I purchased 5 PRO-10 speakers in the summer of 2010 because I thought Chase knew his stuff. IMHO, I received, at best, a working prototype as the SHO-10 came very quickly after I purchased. New waveguide, new woofer, slot ports and better spacing (closer) between WG and woofer. I guess I still had the same CD and of course I had the same stock crossover. The same crossover for two different woofers? Here is the Eminence Delta-10A:



It looks like Audyssey would set a crossover of 100Hz or so for this woofer...

Tweak City Audio Chase Home Theater Chane really needs to step-up their game. In 2010, I paid $364.00/speaker delivered for a work in progress. Recently I purchased (5) speakers from Erich at DIY Sound Group for $333.00/ speaker personally delivered by the owner and I had all the information I needed to make a decision on the web-site:






Which one do you think sounds better in my home theater?



The sub value is worse...I paid $638/sub for 4 subs and two amps. My new system was $465/sub for 4 subs with two amps.
Which driver looks to have a better chance to reproduce the low end:



I agree with Bosso, take this for what it is worth. My boat has sailed and my wife is over the moon with her "new" CHT system and I am happy in the fact that have a system from a community effort of real designers that I was able to put together in less than a week and sounds amazing.
post #666 of 830
It may come as a surprise to some, but there was a time Craig and I were cordial. He's a bit of a recalcitrant. Stubborn if you will. Back when he was doing some kind of group testing of amplifiers to determine if people could tell the difference, he stated he was going to use test tones and a microphone. I informed him that it was far easier and virtually error proof to simply use a multimeter hooked up to the speaker terminals when running the test tones. Then you simply match the voltages as closely as you can. In spite of pointing out the advantages of the multimeter approach and stating that was the method used by researchers, he was adamant about the microphone approach. He was quite clear that he was correct and informed me about how he had some pricey, calibrated microphone and was more than competent in its use. Recalcitrant.

He's been interested in audio for some time. Most of us here have in one form or another but Craig wanted to become an actual player bringing products to the masses. Products that they could afford. Speakers that had no problem whatsoever with dynamics and capable of reference level and then some. Speakers that could reach these these levels with more modest receivers. Subs that competed with not only respected brands but the better known DIY offerings at prices that make DIYnot cost effective. After all, if you really cut out the middle man, take no salary as he's stated, and then later find out that TCA/CHT makes no money on the subs, that's a heck of a recipe for meeting those goals. And he can pull that off because he derives a very healthy living from his other endeavors. Nothing wrong with making little to no money in order to get some market share and get your foot in the door.

Laugbach, you called the speakers you received more like prototypes. That's a fairer assessment than calling them B-stock but even that may be a bit overly kind. Initial roll outs were abysmal - miswired crossovers, nail holes, splinters, poor finishes, poor packaging, stuffing improperly attached, different amounts of stuffing, etc. No doubt things got better but it was shameful what happened. I and some others heavily criticized this on AVS which was met by the usual refrain that I hadn't heard them, had an agenda, that it was personal, and there were satisfied customers. The imperfections were a moot point if you couldn't see them but up close or they were hidden behind screens. Well yeah, but still!

As you pointed out laugsbach, the crossover point was a bit high and I think somewhat unexpected by Chase. But given the choice of drivers, using a slightly modified Eminence crossover, and the way the box was constructed, this might've been the best that could be achieved. Things got better though. It bears noting that Chase is not a speaker designer no more than a person with a crosscut saw, a hammer, and some nails is a carpenter. And that's OK so long as you have at your disposal people who are knowledgeable. That's where Lane comes in. He may very well be the person who is able to realize some of the aspirations that Chase had back when he started down this path. I don't want to see Chane fail no more than I want to see CHT fail. What I expect and so should all is accountability and integrity. And again, I'd like to see Chase's posting privelages restored. People deserve some degree of forgiveness, second chances, and the like. So, it would be welcome if some who have been adversely affected do something like PM the mods and request that second chance.
post #667 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

After all, if you really cut out the middle man, take no salary as he's stated, and then later find out that TCA/CHT makes no money on the subs, that's a heck of a recipe for meeting those goals.

That's going to be interesting to find out if that was necessarily true or not. I would imagine that Chane will have to make a profit (seems unlikely Jon Lane is doing this for free). I wonder if the sub prices will go up, or whether they will stay the same because there was, indeed, profit being made there.
post #668 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Laugbach, you called the speakers you received more like prototypes. That's a fairer assessment than calling them B-stock but even that may be a bit overly kind. Initial roll outs were abysmal - miswired crossovers, nail holes, splinters, poor finishes, poor packaging, stuffing improperly attached, different amounts of stuffing, etc.

Yes, Chu, you are correct. I tried to find a neutral word or phase but to be honest, abysmal is the correct word for my first two speakers. I had all of the above with my first two speakers but at least the next three had better packaging and I didn't have to fix the crossover...thank heaven for small mercies. rolleyes.gif
post #669 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

After all, if you really cut out the middle man, take no salary as he's stated, and then later find out that TCA/CHT makes no money on the subs, that's a heck of a recipe for meeting those goals.

That's going to be interesting to find out if that was necessarily true or not. I would imagine that Chane will have to make a profit (seems unlikely Jon Lane is doing this for free). I wonder if the sub prices will go up, or whether they will stay the same because there was, indeed, profit being made there.

Interesting thought --
When Craig was going to get out of the CHT business and sell the CHT name to Stormwind13, Dustin was quoted a sale price. I don't know anything about Craig's CHT profit margin, or lack there of. Frankly, I think his product prices have always been more than reasonable in comparison to similar products. But if someone isn't after profit at all, and is only championing a company for the good of the community then why try to sell the company brand?

Ultimately it is immaterial to me - because I think a man should be rewarded for his labor -- at least in some way! Erich H from the DIY sound group deserves some compensation for instance - and it's in his and our best interest to take some fiscal reward so he doesn't burn out! The only rub as to profits or no - would be if there was a claim of no profits, but profits were taken.
post #670 of 830
One would have to be privy to the books and AFAIK, Eric Snowden didn't release that information. CHT has sustained some losses such as the penalty for unlabeled goods from China and perhaps fines and legal expenses for that whole contract worker thing. We're those factored in when determining P/L? Who knows. I trust both Lane and Chase have done their due diligence before deciding to make a go of it.
post #671 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post






Woah!! I thought the SI driver was small since the only other 18" driver I have seen in my room was the Captivator 2400 driver.
post #672 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Woah!! I thought the SI driver was small since the only other 18" driver I have seen in my room was the Captivator 2400 driver.

Would you look at that!
post #673 of 830
Yes, among even the baby 18's of the world (Dayton and SI) the Chase Eminence 18 doesn't even look like it belongs in the same category of units called "sub"woofer.

Bossobass asked earlier, will the real Chase close-mic FR please stand up?

Chase has responded with yet another variant to add to the collection; claiming yes, finally three years later and only now do we posses the ability to accurately measure our own product. Here is the fabled response to 23Hz using only the Dayton.

Wait, what?

Yeah, I know. One minute the argument is that a 23Hz +/-3dB spec never existed, now we're back to defending that one?

Someone can't keep their story straight.



So, first let's note that the original specification was for the Dayton SA1000 to have bass boost enabled, nothing more, resulting in a -6dB point of 23Hz. To defend this claim (that remember, never existed wink.gif) the revision is that we're using nothing more than EQ from the SA1000. Sneaky. What does this mean?

The SA1000 has a single point PEQ with the ability to cut a selective Q as much as -14.5dB. So obviously, select something like 60Hz and a fairly wide Q, drop it a chunk and watch the curve flatten.

But wait a minute, where'd all that midbass headroom go? Gone.



Then you have the obvious... where'd your single PEQ go that would otherwise have let you tame a room mode? Isn't that a feature?

Only when it needs to be, folks. biggrin.gif
post #674 of 830
Thanks, nfraso… added to the list of choices:



Curious… the only 2 traces that actually show a 2nd order roll off are the WinISD models. All of the "measured" traces are not even close. wink.gif
post #675 of 830
Does Omnimic not allow for a logarithmic scale?
post #676 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Does Omnimic not allow for a logarithmic scale?

I Have OM and there is no option to change the default scale on the FR page...
post #677 of 830
That graph posted was actually logarithmic- but as with most Omnimic graphs, severely stretched out horizontally.
post #678 of 830
Thanks for the clarification, nfraso. Gritting back to your analysis of the Chase sealed sub's FR, it makes perfect sense and I guess the absence of the 100-200 Hz information perhaps suggests something. How does Chase,s manipulation of the FR by adding some boost and dicking around with the PEQ compare to how other manufacturers represent the performance of their sealed subs?
post #679 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

How does Chase,s manipulation of the FR by adding some boost and dicking around with the PEQ compare to how other manufacturers represent the performance of their sealed subs?

Here's the various CHT traces added to my collection of 6 subs I built going back almost 11 years to present. Added to that are the SubMersive, the PB Ultra-13 and just recently the PSA Triax:



The PSA Triax has the lowest EQ'd F3 (magenta trace), but TV's a rookie, he'll learn. biggrin.gif The rest are all the same within (+/-) 2dB (placed between the 2 dashed lines). I overlaid the CHT trace for reference to answer your question. I'm sure you'll be able to pick it out from the crowd.
post #680 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Thanks for the clarification, nfraso. Gritting back to your analysis of the Chase sealed sub's FR, it makes perfect sense and I guess the absence of the 100-200 Hz information perhaps suggests something. How does Chase,s manipulation of the FR by adding some boost and dicking around with the PEQ compare to how other manufacturers represent the performance of their sealed subs?



Powered subwoofers have custom EQ circuits built into their internal amplifiers to flatten the FR.

Chase has not customized the EQ for the off the shelf subwoofer amplifier that he uses to power his passive subwoofer cabinet. You could ask him what he uses for his EQ settings if you we really interested in what he does.

I am not sure if that Dayton amplifier can drive loads lower than 4 ohms. Not sure if teh Chase passive subwoofer is 8 Ohms or 6 ohms.

I would probably used a high pass filter if I owned that Chase subwoofer.
post #681 of 830
J, the Chase 18 is 8ohm nominal- we have measured T/S params and also specified T/S params from Eminence on the previous page if you want to check them out. The Dayton is a mono amp supposedly capable of 950w into 4 ohm (pair of CS-18s).

You're right, highpassing the ULF or leaving the naked response and making it essentially a midbass module are really your only viable options. Once you start throwing boost at the low end (or using PEQ to chop off the top end like Chase did in the latest FR- he's throwing +8dB of boost at 20Hz in that graph and then advising folks to run Audyssey for the rest, adding another +XdB of boost), the amp is sucked dry, shuts down and is all around just a waste of time.
post #682 of 830
Nfraso, in the graph that Bossobass provided, even though the CHT sealed sub does not fare as well as the others, Chse has often touted the price as an important factor. Along those lines, I have a couple of .questions.

1) in your estimation, how many of the CHT sealed units would be required to be comparable to the PSA unit?
2) given the number above, would one also expect compression to be comparable?
3) there have been some CHT sealed owners, MKT aside, who have stated that their in room response does extend to 10 Hz with fairly flat response. Regretfully, I don't recall their names, the number of subs, what the levels were, or whether some form of room correction was applied. If you do, do you have any comments on this?
4) Sandbagger/Seaton developed a modification to the Dayton amp that provides increased capabilities at some incremental price increase. If you're aware of this, does this change the performance of the sealed unit to the point where it really doesn't deserve the MBM moniker?
post #683 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

J, the Chase 18 is 8ohm nominal- we have measured T/S params and also specified T/S params from Eminence on the previous page if you want to check them out. The Dayton is a mono amp supposedly capable of 950w into 4 ohm (pair of CS-18s).

You're right, highpassing the ULF or leaving the naked response and making it essentially a midbass module are really your only viable options. Once you start throwing boost at the low end (or using PEQ to chop off the top end like Chase did in the latest FR- he's throwing +8dB of boost at 20Hz in that graph and then advising folks to run Audyssey for the rest, adding another +XdB of boost), the amp is sucked dry, shuts down and is all around just a waste of time.



I was thinking about a high pass in the 15 - 18 hz area along with the EQ boost. Even a pair of those 18-1 being played at reference level with the wrong content would be high excursion for those drivers. Just looking at the specs for all of the generic Eminence 18" drivers show 10 MM of linear excusion with 20 mm max.


Quoted from the newer SUB-1 amplifier spec at Chase:

"The Sub-1 incorporates a continuously-variable subsonic filter that is adjustable from 20Hz to 35Hz (we recommend 20 Hz with the VS-18.1). The effect of the Subsonic filter is to allow your VS-18.1 to deliver a solid floor (to 15 Hz in most rooms) while protecting the woofer from being over driven at frequencies below 15 Hz. A subsonic filter does not act as a “brick wall”, but rather rolls off the signal to your VS-18.1 at 12 dB per octave below 20 Hz. You can feel confident that your VS-18.1 is well protected while delivering powerful bass scenes."

http://chasehometheater.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=681&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=151


Note that Notnyt hi passes his over the top 8 driver TC Sounds setup, and he does not use basic Eminence drivers.


Chase has three amplifiers that you can buy, but the Dayton is not listed these days. It seems like the two newer amplifiers do not have any EQ applied at all according to the other web site. Craig said that Audyssey will do the EQ for you.


MQ-600 spec:

http://chasehometheater.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=680&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=150
Edited by J_Palmer_Cass - 11/4/13 at 6:10am
post #684 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Nfraso, in the graph that Bossobass provided, even though the CHT sealed sub does not fare as well as the others, Chse has often touted the price as an important factor. Along those lines, I have a couple of .questions.

1) in your estimation, how many of the CHT sealed units would be required to be comparable to the PSA unit?
2) given the number above, would one also expect compression to be comparable?
3) there have been some CHT sealed owners, MKT aside, who have stated that their in room response does extend to 10 Hz with fairly flat response. Regretfully, I don't recall their names, the number of subs, what the levels were, or whether some form of room correction was applied. If you do, do you have any comments on this?
4) Sandbagger/Seaton developed a modification to the Dayton amp that provides increased capabilities at some incremental price increase. If you're aware of this, does this change the performance of the sealed unit to the point where it really doesn't deserve the MBM moniker?

1) I'd have to say you'll need 3 x Chase 18's to match displacement with a single Triax. I would also not be surprised to find out one of those 15's actually out-perform a Chase 18 on a 1:1 basis. Is that enough to call it a day? See below.

2) We have some graphs from PSA starting to show:



Personally I think the Chase would be doing well just to cleanly playback the same compressed Triax response at serious levels. (Again, more covered on that below.)

Bosso would probably be able to give us a better idea of what type of compression story each option would tell given the systems he's compared that way.

3) Sure, it gets posted on CHT forum all the time. You'll see an Omnimic graph (stretched out horizontally with a massive vertical range) showing ruler flat to 10Hz. Whether you use the Dayton's PEQ cut, outboard EQ or a combination with Audyssey boosting the rest it's fairly trivial to measure a flat response to 10Hz.

Take for example the Husker/Desertdome shootout. You had an SS-18.2, with a typical +6dB L/T applied by DD. It was up against a range of various subs, and was beat handily by the Submersive. Two 15's vs two 18's. Again, this goes back to question #1. Equivalent displacement more or less, was that enough? Clearly not. Even then, it wasn't flat to 10Hz- you'd need more boost to achieve that.

So throw more low end boost at the already hamstringed 18's to get that nifty flat-to-10Hz graph everyone loves to share. Crash and burn.

Take now the KC shootout, and find the EQd Chase 18 pair:



This is an example of what you'll see owners posting on the CHT forums, and you know who will eventually come around with something like this:

"Look folks, he's flat to 10Hz +/-5dB with nothing more than an iNuke 3000 and it's built in EQ. We sell this as a package for yadda, yadda, yaddda..."

We all know how that response worked out in practice. Dead last. Think the SA1000 with roughly the same juice as that NU3000 but added ULF shutdown issues is going to perform better in Craig's latest super-EQd response?

4) This is more or less a great "bandaid" (not in terms of execution which I'm sure is flawless, but purpose or reason for being) by the guys at MCA to solve some glaring issues with the configuration a lot of people bought into and may be stuck with. The most obvious fix being, "The amp also no longer shuts down that required a physical reset of the power button."

For someone else to say, ship me this guy's product and I'll fix it so that you can actually use it normally, you have to bring quite a lazy offering to the table!

Of course the response was tailored internally leaving the PEQ available to the user- it's now right at what the product was originally intended to deliver. It's quite embarrassing that someone else had to do this.

Even still, the boost required to get this originally promised response is not going to bring back the ridiculous performance "intended" (nothing as originally was claimed- under the assumption that the great top end sensitivity would be fed 475w from the Dayton and blow away the LMS-Ultras of the world while matching the low end with just a pair). Yes, with the response fixed it's now capable of acting like a subwoofer- does this mean it does the job well?

For example, the great AE TD18H+. It actually has more rated xmax (14mm) than the Chase Eminence 18 and the same 20mm physical limits. Can you EQ this thing flat to 20Hz and use it as a sealed subwoofer system? Sure, fill your room with them, add SA1000s, iNukes or whatever, cross them at 80Hz to your HT monitors and go to town. Does it make a heck of a lot of sense? It's a waste of the TD18's strengths, and a lousy way to achieve ULF. And even then, you can pick up 8 of those TD18s at $399 a pop and put together a system not all that different in cost from the Chase stuff and have some ultra-low inductance among other benefits. rolleyes.gif

--

Dave, I just realized MCA I believe has the their measured response posted:



Given the ~40Hz -6dB similar to my close-mic, I think that's what we're looking at. (Red line, labeled "Stock". Green line of course is their modded SA1000 response. I'd be curious to see those hidden "Max Boost" graphs as well.)
post #685 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post



Take for example the Husker/Desertdome shootout. You had an SS-18.2, with a typical +6dB L/T applied by DD. It was up against a range of various subs, and was beat handily by the Submersive. Two 15's vs two 18's. Again, this goes back to question #1. Equivalent displacement more or less, was that enough? Clearly not. Even then, it wasn't flat to 10Hz- you'd need more boost to achieve that.
.


To be fair, the submersive was receiving more then double the power of the 18.2. (this was my ss-18.2 at that gtg) Do I think the SS-18.2 is better then the submersive? No. - but I think it held it's own at that GTG. We are also comparing subs where one is more than double the price of the other.
post #686 of 830
JPC,

notnyt's HPF is at 7 Hz and he runs his system at +15dB hot. Hardly a comparative reference. I'm sure his signal chain is already HP'd at 7 Hz to begin with.

Also, you're referring to the CHT ported sub. I've mentioned before that sub hit the streets that the CHT driver is better designed for a vented box. Putting a HPF at or near 20 Hz on a sealed subwoofer is to defeat the reason to have a sealed subwoofer.

nfraso,

Sorry, what's MCA?

That OM graph is smoothed and in reality is down -18dB from 70-15 Hz. I would be back in the shop fixing the design flaw if any of my sealed subs measured like that at the LP.

An 18" with 30mm X-max is equal to 5-1/2 18" with 11mm X-max.

Stormwind,

Where performance claims are concerned, price is irrelevant.

The SM scores well because it has well thought out limiting. It's displacement is only 8 liters, but the EQ/limiter design keeps it well behaved under pressure. The FR at high output changes radically, but the listener is unaware vs a sub like the CHT which will telegraph its weaknesses when pushed. That would be fine if ridiculous comparisons to the RE-XXX, Mal-21, LMS 5400, etc hadn't been claimed repeatedly.
post #687 of 830
Bosso: Motor City Audio or Sandbagger (Kevin) / Seaton. Thought you could add their nearfield measurement of the CS-18 to known accurate measurements. Found it on their forum.

I'm on the same page with the KC Omnimic graph; more a parody of the typical over zealous Chase assessment than anything. wink.gif By the way, in that GTG thread the iNuke's amp settings are listed; if you combine them all there is +6dB of boost applied at 20Hz, and that's the resulting LP graph.
post #688 of 830
Hey all,

A little over a year ago I ordered two dual VS-18.1's and ran them with an I-nuke 6000.

I'm a very casual hobbyist of home theater, and will sometimes go long periods before buying another piece of gear.

Long story short, I ended up returning the I-nuke because of it's airplane exhaust fan and wasn't satisfied with the in-room results I was getting. My peaks were about 118d which was loud enough, but I wasn't getting very much presence or authority from the subs. I have a pretty decent sized room that opens into a kitchen, and have always thought that the kitchen sucks out the bass response.

After returning the I-Nuke I just stopped messing with it and paid attention to other hobbies. Blasphemy! lol ...

This past week, I ordered the MQ-600 from CHT, and really didn't do a ton of research into it other than the MQ-600 was recommended as the amp for the duals.

After reading through some of the pointed posts in this thread, What should my expectations be with the VS-18.1 plus MQ-600 combo?

My living room is 18.5 x 13 x 8 with a vaulted ceiling that opens into a 20 x 9.5 x 8 kitchen....

EDIT : Removed opinion about past experiences with ID companies.
Edited by redfive - 11/9/13 at 9:18am
post #689 of 830
^^

You should be fine...I have (4) SS-18.1 subs running off an inuke-6000 amp with no problems after I changed out the fans. I am not pushing the system and using it as a mid bass system for music. It would help if you can take some measurements at your LP with Room EQ Wizard or OmniMic...

Please post back what you think of the amp...smile.gif
post #690 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

Hey all,

A little over a year ago I ordered two dual VS-18.1's and ran them with an I-nuke 6000.

I'm a very casual hobbyist of home theater, and will sometimes go long periods before buying another piece of gear.

Long story short, I ended up returning the I-nuke because of it's airplane exhaust fan and wasn't satisfied with the in-room results I was getting. My peaks were about 118d which was loud enough, but I wasn't getting very much presence or authority from the subs. I have a pretty decent sized room that opens into a kitchen, and have always thought that the kitchen sucks out the bass response.

After returning the I-Nuke I just stopped messing with it and paid attention to other hobbies. Blasphemy! lol ...

This past week, I ordered the MQ-600 from CHT, and really didn't do a ton of research into it other than the MQ-600 was recommended as the amp for the duals.

After reading through some of the pointed posts in this thread, What should my expectations be with the VS-18.1 plus MQ-600 combo?

My living room is 18.5 x 13 x 8 with a vaulted ceiling that opens into a 20 x 9.5 x 8 kitchen....

EDIT : Removed opinion about past experiences with ID companies.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the I-nuke 6000 vs the MQ-600. I've been debating which amp to purchase.

As far as your room I would definitely say the open floor hurts some but would think with either amp the bass should be really good still.
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