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Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 25

post #721 of 830
Quote:
The Dayton is advertised at 950W at 4 ohms, the iNuke 3000 was tested 2000Wrms/4ohm/bridged at clipping and the iNuke 6000 tested 1800W into 4 Ohms for "Bass duty per channel", or 2050 W/4ohm full range. DSP versions have a very nice interface (by PC) to control peq filters, limiters setup and many other functions.
But the SS-18.1s are 8-ohm subs, which mean they get either 497W (if you run one to a Dayton) or 475W (if you run two to a Dayton). How do the iNukes compare w/ 8-ohm loads?

I like the idea of the iNukes' built-in DSP, to tweak whatever MultEQ XT32 can't completely handle. Then again, with the SUB-1 (or some other) amp there's always the option of a miniDSP.
post #722 of 830
I would not go to the iNuke3000 for non-bridged 8 ohm duty, anemic at 300 W/channel. The iNuke6000 will be much better since it is basically two 3000's bridged, and will give you 1160 to 1370 W/channel 8 ohm full range or bass duty.

Also, the single channel Sub1 has a HPF, so a bit more suited for one or two VS18.1, but can be used with the sealed, also.
post #723 of 830
Quote:
The iNuke6000 will be much better since it is basically two 3000's bridged, and will give you 1160 to 1370 W/channel 8 ohm full range or bass duty.
Hooo-ahh!! That's a serious amount more power than what the Dayton delivers! cool.gif
post #724 of 830
So can I just get a general concensus of whether people advise I get the SUB1 or one of the nuke amps. (Either the 3000 or the 6000).

I will be honest I am a real newb. I have only settup a 5.1 system before and exclusively used audyssey room calibration. I have heard not to do that with the higher end system I'm putting together. I will using a denon x2000 with this system.

So what can I do with the Berhingher that I can't withy the sub1 and what is the cost difference?
I'm worried I will have trouble with the settup.
post #725 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbdman View Post

I would not go to the iNuke3000 for non-bridged 8 ohm duty, anemic at 300 W/channel. The iNuke6000 will be much better since it is basically two 3000's bridged, and will give you 1160 to 1370 W/channel 8 ohm full range or bass duty.

Also, the single channel Sub1 has a HPF, so a bit more suited for one or two VS18.1, but can be used with the sealed, also.

I get extension to 30 Hz in my room with my 18.1's and a single Dayton amp per sub, would the 6000 extend that lower or just increase the SPL in its bandpass, or both? Do you know if there are measurements anywhere?

Thanks
post #726 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I get extension to 30 Hz in my room with my 18.1's and a single Dayton amp per sub, would the 6000 extend that lower or just increase the SPL in its bandpass, or both? Do you know if there are measurements anywhere?

Thanks

No, you need a different location for deeper extension. The DSP amps could add multiple EQ's so you can have a built in EQ DSP nearfield to make them flat to 18hz and then add a shelf to increase the low end even more with room gain. Have you placed the CapS2's in the same locations as the 18.1's to compare responses? The CapS2's have that built in EQ to 18-20hz so it should extend deeper naturally.
post #727 of 830
carter840,

The casual user would probably be better off with the Sub1 - less worry of proper connectors, and using Audyssey will probably give you very good results.

The iNuke DSP series are for tweaking the response after Audyssey has done it's thing. This typically requires measurement using something like REW, computer and microphone and their ability to give you correction factors to improve response, and maybe tweak in a house curve. These are typically done by acquiring the equipment and expertise that is well above a beginner level, which is why I say, you'd be "better off" with the Sub1. If you think you'd like to tweak latter, you can always start with the Sub1 and add on a miniDSP, or even an automated equalizer.
post #728 of 830
Quote:
... I get extension to 30 Hz in my room with my 18.1's and a single Dayton amp per sub ...
Only 30Hz? How big is your room?

In my ~3,400 cu.ft. room, I get flat to ~17Hz with either a single Dayton running both SS-18.1s, or with one Dayton per sub.
post #729 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I get extension to 30 Hz in my room with my 18.1's and a single Dayton amp per sub, would the 6000 extend that lower or just increase the SPL in its bandpass, or both? Do you know if there are measurements anywhere?

Thanks

Here was my response with the 18.2's, maybe the 18.2's were better designed than the 18,1's? My minus 3 dB point was 15hz. I always start at 20hz with my rolloff because anything above can be EQ'd flat. Fixing the rolloff down low is the tricky part. This is no EQ. My new IB has a -3 dB point at 9hz without EQ so it is rolling off not as steep.
post #730 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

No, you need a different location for deeper extension. The DSP amps could add multiple EQ's so you can have a built in EQ DSP nearfield to make them flat to 18hz and then add a shelf to increase the low end even more with room gain. Have you placed the CapS2's in the same locations as the 18.1's to compare responses? The CapS2's have that built in EQ to 18-20hz so it should extend deeper naturally.

I had the 18.1's long before I added the S2's and they never gave me much of anything below 30 Hz, 25 Hz was probably the best I ever saw from them and I've had them all over my room.

The Cap S2's give me extension to 10 Hz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater. View Post

Here was my response with the 18.2's, maybe the 18.2's were better designed than the 18,1's? My minus 3 dB point was 15hz. I always start at 20hz with my rolloff because anything above can be EQ'd flat. Fixing the rolloff down low is the tricky part. This is no EQ. My new IB has a -3 dB point at 9hz without EQ so it is rolling off not as steep.

Yea, I never seemed to get what others were from my 18.1's. Not sure why.
post #731 of 830
OH, here was the actual response

post #732 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbdman View Post


The Dayton is advertised at 950W at 4 ohms, the iNuke 3000 was tested 2000Wrms/4ohm/bridged at clipping and the iNuke 6000 tested 1800W into 4 Ohms for "Bass duty per channel", or 2050 W/4ohm full range. DSP versions have a very nice interface (by PC) to control peq filters, limiters setup and many other functions. I'm very happy with the two 18.2's and iNuke 6000, seem to work very well together.

But, still for the novice, the Sub1 is much easier to hook up, and while less control, may be an easier product to live with, plus, it's not quite a profestional product (in the case of the 6000, read "sounds like a hair dryer").

The Dayton and SUB 1 are easier to hookup on first impression. I had never used a pro amp and never did any DJ or other audio related things prior to getting the Berhinger and it took a few tries to get things right. But, now there is a quick setup guide on the Chase forum. The Berhinger I Nuke is around $269.00. That is a descent savings for an amp twice as powerful as the Dayton and the advantage of controlling the low end roll off. As far as fan noise, my amps are not that loud and I have not chosen to do a fan mod.

Interestingly, I was testing the amp on some movie and had the amp meter on with some real LFE stuff. The meter on normal usage is around 2.3 amps. During this test the meter went 17 amp. I was surprised t see that type of peak output. Most of this 14. amp swing was due to the sub. To convert that to watts: 120 volt x amp 14 = 1680 watts. I have two dedicated 15 amp circuits so the stacked SS 18.1's are on one and the SS 18.2 is on the other.
post #733 of 830
The sealed subs don't get much cabin gain in long room. This is were a 3-6 db. boost at 20 Hz. can help with the I nuke. The the Q or bandwidth can be adjusted to get the low end up. My room is over 7000 cubic ft or larger since it is all open concept design.. I can get pretty flat down to around 15 Hz.
post #734 of 830
Are you suggesting that I look at something else besides the VS 18.1? My room is 14'w x 22'L x 11'H. I was told the vs 18.1 should go well below 30h Hz.
post #735 of 830
No Carter 840. You asked some questions and I tried to answer them concerning the I Nuke amps. I said in an earlier post that you will be fine with the SUB 1 or Berhinger I Nuke for the VS 18.1 subs. The final choice is yours as to what subs and amps that you want. I think all of us are providing you with educational info to make an informed choice.biggrin.gif I would advise anyone considering the I Nuke to read the helpful info that is on the Chase Forum.
post #736 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by carter840 View Post

Are you suggesting that I look at something else besides the VS 18.1? My room is 14'w x 22'L x 11'H. I was told the vs 18.1 should go well below 30h Hz.

With the tuned port on the VS-18.1, you will get a nice natural boost down to 16 Hz than if you were to get a sealed sub that would need equalization in that range to be similar. So you are headed in the right direction, and $500 for a passive ported 18" sub is a terrific deal, whatever amp you decide on.
post #737 of 830
For that price, I might pick up one. That is a great price.
post #738 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexathor View Post

Thanks for that info, that's what I was looking for. I like what I hear in regards to JTR but the price was holding me back. If Chase can keep up with something that cost significantly more like the 212's than that's saying something.

My comment regarding not seeing much info out there was geared towards the Theater-10 speakers. They have two pics on the Chase site with some general info and that's about it. I 'm assuming that they're an improvement over the Sho-10 but that's not always the case. I member on the Chase forum suggested that the Theater-10 were a clone of the http://www.vcomtek.com/product/Professional_sound_speaker/2012/0525/83.html but rebranded as Chase.

I am interested in the theater 10's but not really sure I need them. I would love to know what they changed. I contacted vcomtek last week to see how much they would sell 3 of them for. They quoted me $550. It was unclear if that was shipped or not.

Edit - that is not shipped. Shipping is $450 so total is $1000, pretty much in line with what Chase charges.
post #739 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

OH, here was the actual response


Hey, MK, how do you get the image so large? I always select Large and my images are not nearly as large as yours. What's the trick?
post #740 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I am interested in the theater 10's but not really sure I need them. I would love to know what they changed. I contacted vcomtek last week to see how much they would sell 3 of them for. They quoted me $550. It was unclear if that was shipped or not.

Edit - that is not shipped. Shipping is $450 so total is $1000, pretty much in line with what Chase charges.

Isn't that company based out of china?
post #741 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexathor View Post

Isn't that company based out of china?

Yes, I contacted the same company that is in your link.
post #742 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Yes, I contacted the same company that is in your link.

Usually that gets really expensive unless you order in bulk. Shipping might cost the same as the speakers. Did they quote you?
post #743 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexathor View Post

Usually that gets really expensive unless you order in bulk. Shipping might cost the same as the speakers. Did they quote you?

Yes, 3 speakers at $550 total and $450 shipping. Really no better than Chase, and without any customizations.
post #744 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Yes, 3 speakers at $550 total and $450 shipping. Really no better than Chase, and without any customizations.

Yea, that's what I figured. Not sure what Chase changes on them, haven't seen any details coming back when that questions comes up.
post #745 of 830
He changes the labeling and that's it.
post #746 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

He changes the labeling and that's it.

I am glad you know that to be fact. It must be nice to say whatever you want. He said he changes the woofer and crossover. If you can prove that to be false go right ahead. That would take you to buy both and open them up to compare. If that happens and they are identical then my attitude will change.
post #747 of 830
Don't be so naive, MKT. This is the same guy who played word games when it came to using the stock Eminence crossover with the addition of resistors. This is the same guy who fudged the xmax numbers on the sub driver. This is the same guy who said he had the Dayton amps custom made for him. The only thing he has to watch out for is making sure the speakers have Made in China label so he doesn't get nailed by Customs again. This is merely an interim solution to tide things over until Lane develops something on his own.
post #748 of 830
Any word from Jon and when his sub will be completed? Last I checked on his forum there was no update.
post #749 of 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am glad you know that to be fact. It must be nice to say whatever you want. He said he changes the woofer and crossover. If you can prove that to be false go right ahead. That would take you to buy both and open them up to compare. If that happens and they are identical then my attitude will change.

Where has he said that MK, do you have a link? The burden of proof here is on you, not Chu. Everything about this matches the Vcomtek MS-10+, and given the history, it only makes sense.

This is all of the information given on the Theater-10:

From the product overview that has a post date of March 6th 2013 and the initial pictures with Vcomtek badging:
Quote:
The Theater-10 monitor is our replacement for the current PRO/SHO-10's. It is a highly efficient (94 + dB) monitor that took the strengths of the current PRO/SHO monitors and added to them extension to 60 Hz (-6 dB).

We are testing the monitors in our system now, and while Audyssey would set the PRO/SHO to 100-120 Hz in our room, it is setting 80 Hz on the new monitors. The 94 dB rating is based on the lowest sensitivity of the woofer. If we rated it like the PRO's were, they would come with a 97 dB rating.

So initial design is claimed to be -6dB at 60Hz and 94dB sensitivity.

Here's an update on August 1st 2013:
Quote:
The MS-10 will have all the changes we specified in the production model for us. The -6 dB point is now 58 Hz, where their original design was -10 dB at 60 Hz. We sacrificed some sensitivity (now 94 dB) to get the lower floor, but it was important to get the MS-10 so Audyssey would set the crossover at between 60 and 80 Hz, which it has been doing in our rather large theater.

There were some additional changes, all specifically for us. The speakers as production models will not have the Vcomtek badging on them. They also will not have Speakon connectors - we specified nickel binding posts instead so our customers will not have to buy adapter cables.

So here we have badging and binding posts being changed for production.

Scratching our heads, we take a look at the "original design" as mentioned with specs available here- it's doubtful Chase knew they were public information, but regardless here they are: http://www.vcomtek.com/product/Professional_sound_speaker/2012/0525/83.html

Frequency response: 60HZ-19KHZ

How far down these points are isn't mentioned, but the standard for pro monitors seems to be Frequency Response = -6dB point, Frequency Range = -10dB. (For example, QSC K10: http://www.qscaudio.com/products/speakers/k_series/k_series_k10.php)

Sensitivty: 94dB

So we have some very strange information here; Chase is claiming to have changed the original design to -6dB at 60Hz by sacrificing some sensitivity. Problem is, the new sensitivity is the same as the old sensitivity. Which probably explains why the response is -6dB at 60Hz before in March, matching original design specs and also after the claimed modifications. Does he mean that he sacrificed the sensitivity of the SHO-10 (97dB) to get the response lower (-6dB at 60Hz)? No, because he specifically stated, "The 94 dB rating is based on the lowest sensitivity of the woofer. If we rated it like the PRO's were, they would come with a 97 dB rating." So no sensitivity was sacrificed in that regard either. So what the heck is all this nonsense about then?

Nothing has changed. This is the same game that was played with the SHO-10 when they tried to convince everyone the crossover was custom. Um, padding the tweeter does not a custom crossover make. Then they claimed the Delta-10a in the SHO-10 was custom from Eminence.

In the end, it was ordered in quantity from Eminence and this somehow made it a "custom" driver just for Chase. rolleyes.gif
post #750 of 830
Why is the conversation on speakers in the subwoofer section. This section should discuss subwoofer.
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