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Trying to assess the cost

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I have Samsung 55 inch 3d 240hz LED tv. I am planning to buy a projector for around $5000 and can stretch little more.

I am evaluating projector JVC RS50. Is it as close as LED tvs for the picture quality? Based on my understanding on the projector, I guess they are not equal to LED tvs for the picture quality.


What kind of screens that typically used with this projector? I read that there are white/grey/silver screens with different gains. Appreciate if you can share about screen models that you are using now with this projector.

I am evaluating projector and screen to get an idea on how much it costs. I am willing to wait for few months to get the projector to my price range.

What are the stores that sell this product or you bought recently? I will check time to time for any drop in the price.
post #2 of 23
Screens are a pretty personal choice. No real right or wrong. I still say most less experienced people are best with a modest gain white matte screen.

The projector you are looking at is LCOS which is definetly a hot display technology.

Because of screen size or the lack there of, it is difficult if not impossible to compare front projectors to small flat panels on PQ.
post #3 of 23
Cost will depend on what screen size you need or want. If you buy a really good screen at the outset, you won't have to change your screen if and when you move up in projectors. The only exception to this rule would be if you start out with a light-challenged projector and later move into a light-blessed projector. These two extremes mate best with screen materials of differing gains. The RS50 has many fans but it's not a light cannon. If you plan to have your projector and screen in a family room or living room where there will be some ambient light, you might want to consider other alternatives. For slightly more than your $5K budget you could go with a very bright single-chip DLP. DPI and Runco both have something in this category and SIM2 just announced their Crystal 35 which sports some fairly impressive specs. If you could budget $8k for screen and projector, you should be able to coast along happily for a number of years.
post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Cost will depend on what screen size you need or want. If you buy a really good screen at the outset, you won't have to change your screen if and when you move up in projectors. The only exception to this rule would be if you start out with a light-challenged projector and later move into a light-blessed projector. These two extremes mate best with screen materials of differing gains. The RS50 has many fans but it's not a light cannon. If you plan to have your projector and screen in a family room or living room where there will be some ambient light, you might want to consider other alternatives. For slightly more than your $5K budget you could go with a very bright single-chip DLP. DPI and Runco both have something in this category and SIM2 just announced their Crystal 35 which sports some fairly impressive specs. If you could budget $8k for screen and projector, you should be able to coast along happily for a number of years.

I have room of the following specifications

Long 20 feet 9 inch
Width 15 feet 10 inch
Height : 9 feet
Windows :3
White pained with white carpet.

What would be maximum screen size that I can go for this?

I never heard about SIM2. I need to research on it.
post #5 of 23
Measure the distance from the wall where the screen will go to the location where you will be sitting. Divide by three. That will be the image height. Multiply that number by 1.78 and you'll get the image width for 16 x 9 aspect. If you want to do 2.35 aspect, multiply the image height by 2.35. Either way, that's the maximum recommended screen size.
post #6 of 23
For LCOS [jvc projector series], its very plausable to sit at the very closest .9X screen width if you wanted to without seeing screen door effect [So I read, but 1.3x screen width is a great start]

when I researched this criteria of interest, everyone says 1.3x screen width is around a great comprimise [and even this is very close] But by all means, some on this forum sit even closer than 1.3x.

But everyones sweet spot is up to the individual. I recommend you tape off your wall with painter tape of the viewable area of the screen, and then sit where you would like to sit...If its to big go smaller, if its to small go bigger...Continue until you hit your sweet spot.

{you times 1.3x to your screen width in inches, then you divide by 12. This gives you the feet of your seating distance of 1.3x screen width.}
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies. One of the online rep recommended me to buy a screen size of 150inch for my media room. He said he can sell Electric screen for around $1000. I am not sure if it is good fit JVC rs 40 or 50.

I have light controlled room of this size

Wall 8feet (height) x 13 feet 6 inch (width)
Ceiling 9 feet
Room is 21 feet long
Width half of the room (at screen) is 13 feet 6 inch and it changes to 15 feet 9 inch


Calculation 1 : To use formula to find height of screen = distance to sitting/3

Plan to sit between 17 and 18 feet to give 3 feet behind
Approximately 18/3 = 6 feet height = 72
Width = 6 feet * 1.78 =72 *1.78 = 128
Diagonal = 146

Calculation 2 : To use sitting distance = 1.3 * width of screen
Let us say width =128
1.3 * width = 1.3 * 128=166.4 feet = 13.86 feet

So, it easily meets the sitting distance of 17 to 19 feet. So, I can have screen size around 146 inch. Any comments? Appreciate if you can share what type of screen you are using with JVC RS 40 OR 50. If the quality of picture does not change much with cheaper screen, it will be in my budget to buy the projector.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukumar View Post

Thanks for the replies. One of the online rep recommended me to buy a screen size of 150inch for my media room. He said he can sell Electric screen for around $1000. I am not sure if it is good fit JVC rs 40 or 50.

I have light controlled room of this size

Wall 8feet (height) x 13 feet 6 inch (width)
Ceiling 9 feet
Room is 21 feet long
Width half of the room (at screen) is 13 feet 6 inch and it changes to 15 feet 9 inch


Calculation 1 : To use formula to find height of screen = distance to sitting/3

Plan to sit between 17 and 18 feet to give 3 feet behind
Approximately 18/3 = 6 feet height = 72
Width = 6 feet * 1.78 =72 *1.78 = 128
Diagonal = 146

Calculation 2 : To use sitting distance = 1.3 * width of screen
Let us say width =128
1.3 * width = 1.3 * 128=166.4 feet = 13.86 feet

So, it easily meets the sitting distance of 17 to 19 feet. So, I can have screen size around 146 inch. Any comments? Appreciate if you can share what type of screen you are using with JVC RS 40 OR 50. If the quality of picture does not change much with cheaper screen, it will be in my budget to buy the projector.

Would work, but If it was me, I would go bigger than 146" diagonal at 17-19 feet sitting distance. But then comes the equation if your projector can handle such a large screen as this. The Da Lite High Power is an option with 2.4 gain. Not sure if any other screens however. The high power is rather quite cheap compared to others, expecially the Perm Wall and Model C Manual pull down. Sorry there is no price talk via forums or I would mention, but im sure it would be cheaper than the electric sceens you looked at [although im not sure what screens you looked at] .

I sit 13.5 feet from a Da Lite High Power [130" (width) x 73" (height)] I believe this is 149" diagonal 16:9 screen. And I absolutely love it. I do not see any pixels or screen door effect. Projector is JVC LCOS.

But this is just my opinion. As I like really big screens.

EDIT: the 13.86 feet you got by multiplying 1.3x screen width, is where you would have to sit to be sitting at 1.3x screen width. But at your 17-18 feet sitting distance, your at 1.7x screen width. If it was me I would either move closer or get a bigger screen.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Measure the distance from the wall where the screen will go to the location where you will be sitting. Divide by three. That will be the image height. Multiply that number by 1.78 and you'll get the image width for 16 x 9 aspect. If you want to do 2.35 aspect, multiply the image height by 2.35. Either way, that's the maximum recommended screen size.

For a 11' viewing distance that gives you a 90" diagonal screen size. That is a 1.7 x image width viewing distance. These days, I thought that the standard was more like 1.5 x image width?
post #10 of 23
I am also confused about all of this. I am getting the JVC RS60 and can't decide about screens. I heard they are not as bright as claimed and was thinking I needed a higher gain screen. I am leaning towards Black Diamond II but they are only 113" at 16:9 and only go up to 1.4 gain. I heard to not go larger than this for 3D anyway. I do have a light controlled room but the walls are light in color and Black Diamond would help with reflection. SI is working on a new 3D version that should have a gain of 2.7 according to the sales rep I just spoke to. I need to calculate my screen size and go from there. Those with the DaLite High Power...is there a lot of reflected ambient light?
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bneiderman View Post

I am also confused about all of this. I am getting the JVC RS60 and can't decide about screens. I heard they are not as bright as claimed and was thinking I needed a higher gain screen. I am leaning towards Black Diamond II but they are only 113" at 16:9 and only go up to 1.4 gain. I heard to not go larger than this for 3D anyway. I do have a light controlled room but the walls are light in color and Black Diamond would help with reflection. SI is working on a new 3D version that should have a gain of 2.7 according to the sales rep I just spoke to. I need to calculate my screen size and go from there. Those with the DaLite High Power...is there a lot of reflected ambient light?

The High power is retroreflective so all light is reflected back at the same axis the light [projector] is shining at. If at an angle, light will reflect back at the same angle. And there is basically no side wall ambient reflected light. however there may be some ambient reflected light wher ever projector is mounted. Such as a ceiling mount, hard to due with high power screen but very doable, the area the projector is on the ceiling...

But im not completely sure as my walls are lined with black velvet, but the high power retroreflective so this is what it would do.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

For a 11' viewing distance that gives you a 90" diagonal screen size. That is a 1.7 x image width viewing distance. These days, I thought that the standard was more like 1.5 x image width?

Yep Thats why I recommended the OP to go bigger than his screen.

I sit 1.3x Screen Width I think its just perfect. But it is huge as well.


EDIT: at 1.7x screen width, I think this is more in the line of 720p projectors I think, but correct me if im wrong. Or when watching DVD's [not blu ray's] as dvd's can look a bit soft when sitting really close to bigger screens. But for 1080p blu rays it perfect at 1.3 screen width and even closer.
post #13 of 23
Sitting 3x image height from the screen is a rule of thumb that the folks at Stewart prescribe. It is not gospel, just a way of insuring adequate distance in most situations. One is certainly welcome to ooch closer until field of vision is challenged or pixilazation is noticeable in certain scenes. But if you want to be well in the clear, err on the long side.
post #14 of 23
My room (22'x16'x8'6") is similar to yours, and I have a 106" screen. I used to sit back at about 18' but kept moving my seating area forward. I'm now at around 13' I believe and this feels about right.

17'-18' viewing distance is a long way. You may want to consider moving it forward and going with something like a 120" screen that more projectors can handle from a brightness standpoint. The Da-lite High Power is a great screen, but also has it's limitations. (projector location, and viewing cone which may not work for everyone)

I would recomment an inexpensive matte white 1.0-1.3 gain screen to start.

Dan
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Sitting 3x image height from the screen is a rule of thumb that the folks at Stewart prescribe. It is not gospel, just a way of insuring adequate distance in most situations. One is certainly welcome to ooch closer until field of vision is challenged or pixilazation is noticeable in certain scenes. But if you want to be well in the clear, err on the long side.

This is correct. regardless of native aspect ratio. They will give you a calc of 3.33 x image height as a starting point and not a definite. I can add to this and say that most set ups that i've been involved with use this calculation as a starting point and always go bigger on the image size or closer on the seating distance.
post #16 of 23
Quote:


17'-18' viewing distance is a long way. You may want to consider moving it forward and going with something like a 120" screen that more projectors can handle from a brightness standpoint. The Da-lite High Power is a great screen, but also has it's limitations. (projector location, and viewing cone which may not work for everyone)

I think thtas too far away too. We sit 12 feet from a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen and a 128" diagonal 2.35:1 screen and it's just perfect.

Beware going too big screen wise and not having a bright enough picture. I'd rather sit closer to a brighter picture mysefl !!
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I think thtas too far away too. We sit 12 feet from a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen and a 128" diagonal 2.35:1 screen and it's just perfect.

Beware going too big screen wise and not having a bright enough picture. I'd rather sit closer to a brighter picture mysefl !!

How do I know particular projector can handle brightness enough for 150 inch 16:9 screen? If not what kind of screen can amplify bright ness?

For example JVC RS 40 has 1300 lumens and if I buy 2.3 gain screen, does it good enough? I see lot of recommendations from the posts to go for highest screen size possible.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

My room (22'x16'x8'6") is similar to yours, and I have a 106" screen. I used to sit back at about 18' but kept moving my seating area forward. I'm now at around 13' I believe and this feels about right.

17'-18' viewing distance is a long way. You may want to consider moving it forward and going with something like a 120" screen that more projectors can handle from a brightness standpoint. The Da-lite High Power is a great screen, but also has it's limitations. (projector location, and viewing cone which may not work for everyone)

I would recomment an inexpensive matte white 1.0-1.3 gain screen to start.

Dan

What is the difference between Da-lite high power vs inexpensive matte white? Is there any brand that I can check for?
I would like to understand what is really happening with screens for gain 1.0 vs 1.3 or 2.3.
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukumar View Post

How do I know particular projector can handle brightness enough for 150 inch 16:9 screen? If not what kind of screen can amplify bright ness?

For example JVC RS 40 has 1300 lumens and if I buy 2.3 gain screen, does it good enough? I see lot of recommendations from the posts to go for highest screen size possible.

First off, be vary weary of manufacturers brightness rating, much less with JVC, however even JVC must be at the closet throw ratio [distance from projector to screen] and wide open iris. other manufacturers, dont even trust them way off.

First I think we would need to know if you plan on calibrating your projector? As this will lower the lumens a projector outputs. Also how you like your image?[bright like plasma, or like in the theaters or somewhere in the middle, or maybe you want more headroom with being able to go bright but watch at a dimmer level to save on buying bulbs]

About the high power vs matte white... A matte white screen, such as caradas Classic Cinema White Screen Material which is vary affordable as well, is a great screen as well in place of the Stewart Studiotek 130 G3. I will admit the Studiotek 130 a lot of people have mentioned is basically the best angular reflective screen with gain one can get; gain of 1.3. Its the industry standard to be exact. however one pays a hefty premium, as they make there screen in house with better quality screening etc etc. With a matte white screen you get great uniformity in the brightness of the screen (not brightness brightness, but the uniformity of the brightness), with no sparklies on the screen due to no gain. The High power is unique as well, since this is one of the few screens with gain, that do not hot spot [uniformity great no matter where you sit] and has virtually no screen texture. The only downside is viewing angles, but if you sit center of the screen it should not vary. Also projector placement needs to be around 1.5-2.5 feet above your eyes.

With the High power its basically the same, but with high brightness and with better ambient light rejection [no light spills to side walls, room doesnt have to 100% light controlled]. But since you have 100% light controlled room, its not needed basically at all. I like the high power since its gives you lamp room. You can clamp down the iris of the jvc to the suited foot lambert/brightness of the screen you want. When bulb ages, just open up the iris for more light. However, some might say its got some color shift if you move to a different seat...I think Jeff Meirer [screen name UMR] says such as cyan can color shift. But if you plan to always sit center to the screen, it really dont matter once you calibrate your projector.

Here are a couple of screenshots with a High power screen using JVC RS40...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post19656342

Here are a couple of screenshots with a acoustic 1.1 screen when using Jvc RS40...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19612708
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19676917

Just a note: screenshots should not be a factor in purchase as there are to many variables in the way.
I more than likely confused the matter worse for you. Sorry im very tired and I have to go to sleep for work tomorrow.

One more thought though, if your on a budget and want even cheaper screens, look at Elite screens. Very cheap. Although I really dont know much about them, but stories about them are not that bad for the price you pay for them. Just a thought.
post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post


One more thought though, if your on a budget and want even cheaper screens, look at Elite screens. Very cheap. Although I really dont know much about them, but stories about them are not that bad for the price you pay for them. Just a thought.

Thanks for detailed explanation. The problem I have is trying to find if I buy RS40 with expensive screen or RS50 with cheaper screen.

If $1k range 150 inch screen can handle picture properly in my light controlled room, I can afford RS50.

Typically, how much space are you leaving for back-end speakers? I meant distance from last row seats to the wall.
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukumar View Post

Thanks for detailed explanation. The problem I have is trying to find if I buy RS40 with expensive screen or RS50 with cheaper screen.

If $1k range 150 inch screen can handle picture properly in my light controlled room, I can afford RS50.

Typically, how much space are you leaving for back-end speakers? I meant distance from last row seats to the wall.

That's always a tough question that gets asked here a lot. One thing to take into account is if you think you will ever upgrade at a future date. That might push you into getting a nice (expensive) screen.

Benny
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benito Joaquin View Post

That's always a tough question that gets asked here a lot. One thing to take into account is if you think you will ever upgrade at a future date. That might push you into getting a nice (expensive) screen.

Benny

This is very true. A great screen, such as Stewart, will last for years and years. Plus Stewart has great warranty on there screens and they stand by their products if, however doubtful, you come accross a problem.

One thing for the OPer to note is, there are reports that the RS40 will eek a little bit more lumens out then the Rs50... Im not sure by how much however. not sure on specifics, im sure one of the sales team can help you out. Give them a call, they will ease your questions.
post #23 of 23
Quote:


Quote:
Quote:


Originally Posted by Craig Peer
I think thtas too far away too. We sit 12 feet from a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen and a 128" diagonal 2.35:1 screen and it's just perfect.

Beware going too big screen wise and not having a bright enough picture. I'd rather sit closer to a brighter picture mysefl !!

How do I know particular projector can handle brightness enough for 150 inch 16:9 screen? If not what kind of screen can amplify bright ness?

For example JVC RS 40 has 1300 lumens and if I buy 2.3 gain screen, does it good enough? I see lot of recommendations from the posts to go for highest screen size possible.

Well, you can go with a high gain screen if you don't have seating as wide or wider than the screen. The best way to see if a projector is bright enough is to read a qualified review to find the REAL brightness ( not the manufacturers made - in - heaven spec. ), deduct at least 20% from that for bulb aging. If you aren't using an anamophic lens for 2.35:1 movies, deduct about 20% more for the blanked portion of the chip.
And use this -
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/res...sidential.html

Or a similar foot lambert calculator. And get a decent light meter if you can to see what is really going on brightness wise.

I find a SIM Lumis Host on a 118" wide ( 128" diagonal ) 2.35:1 screen thats 1.25 gain to be just about right. Started out with 1000+ calibrated lumens, but needless to say bulb dimming takes its toll on all projectors fairly quickly, including mine. A 150" screen would be too dim for me in no time ( YMMV ).
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