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The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 1325
3/18/11 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS View Post

Just RMA'd mine to B&H. Was going to pre-order the G10 there, but today the pre-order option is gone. Any other reputable places that anybody can suggest for a pre-order on the G10?

You're right Erich, looks like I need a plan B. I just got off the phone with B&H and 2 days ago they told me by the end of the month at the latest. Today they told me their buyer is now saying that Canon has backed out of any date for delivery of the HF-G10. So I don't know that anyone will be getting their hands on one of these any time soon.

Since I'm leaving on a trip to Italy mid-April, I may well be stuck with the 900 and may need to pursue yet another replacement.
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post #122 of 1325
3/18/11 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You're right Erich, looks like I need a plan B. I just got off the phone with B&H and 2 days ago they told me by the end of the month at the latest. Today they told me their buyer is now saying that Canon has backed out of any date for delivery of the HF-G10. So I don't know that anyone will be getting their hands on one of these any time soon.

Since I'm leaving on a trip to Italy mid-April, I may well be stuck with the 900 and may need to pursue yet another replacement.


Ken, can you upload a vid from your TM900 so I will have something to compare it to? UPS generally delvers around 5-6pm here, so I won't have any daylight to film in.

I'm hoping the issue does not occur in mine but if it does then it most likely is a quality control issue. I think there will be bigger QC issues after the tsunami because tere is so much they will try and push out the door to get caught up.

I might just get the TM750 if the TM900 has these problems.

My wife thinks I should just buy a DSLR, but those have their own problems. They also cost a lot more, and have a larger form factor. I think on a 7D you can only get 12 minutes of video and it's probably not 60p.
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post #123 of 1325
3/18/11 at 11:48am
Steve, I tried but every time I get 'fail' on Vimeo conversion. Do you have another site for me to try?
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post #124 of 1325
3/18/11 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
You're right Erich, looks like I need a plan B. I just got off the phone with B&H and 2 days ago they told me by the end of the month at the latest. Today they told me their buyer is now saying that Canon has backed out of any date for delivery of the HF-G10. So I don't know that anyone will be getting their hands on one of these any time soon.

Since I'm leaving on a trip to Italy mid-April, I may well be stuck with the 900 and may need to pursue yet another replacement.
EDIT EDIT: You had the 700 didnt you...whoops....I guess I will leave the following post, as I still believe in it, but I guess it does not apply to you if you already bought and returned the 700 series.

If your only real problems are the sharpness and the beeping, why dont you send it back and try out the Panasoni750 instead, and just send the 900 back? I mean, those look like bigger problems than any slight bondi-blue has ever been, and it may end up you are happy with it and save 750 dollars over the G10 anyway, with better footage on your trip than the 900 anyway.


EDIT: It appears I was wrong about the restocking fee.
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post #125 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:05pm
I see nothing in B&H's return policy about a restocking fee for camcorders. They also state that items can be returned for any reason at all within 15 days for a full refund.
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post #126 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Steve, I tried but every time I get 'fail' on Vimeo conversion. Do you have another site for me to try?

No, I don't. Vimeo is the GoTo site for raw files.
After looking at DSLR options I'm not really pleased with what I've initially seen, good video but low frame rates.

Because of the tsunami it looks like this will be a bad year for camcorders.

The Sony I tried didn't get a fair test but the TM900 will.
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post #127 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:13pm
I'll give it another try Steve.

Workinghard, that's an option (750), but I do like the larger LCD and VF. I'll have something, but man I sure wish the Canon was in the equation.
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post #128 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS View Post
I see nothing in B&H's return policy about a restocking fee for camcorders. They also state that items can be returned for any reason at all within 15 days for a full refund.
Do you know if the camcorders have any kind of timer built in where they are able to check how much time the camcorder has recorded? I dont recall ever seeing one, so the following may not matter. Though it does say that if the merchandise is not in original condition they will either deny the return or charge a 15% restocking fee (similar to the claim at amazon) but it also says:

Items with timers must show less than 120 minutes of use. Items with shutter counters must show less than 200 exposures.

I dont think this is relevant to these camcorders, but I am not 100% sure if they have a way to check or not.
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post #129 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:29pm
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Wow! You know I honestly missed that in the review. I went back and read it and it seems almost exactly the issue I'm having. But I don't recall that issue with the first one. I'll bet this issue is more noticeable indoors where lens openings will be wider and focus more critical. You might not see this at all outdoors.

I'm getting more and more soured on this unit as time goes on. There was nothing wrong with the autofocus on the 700, so why mess with it??
It isn't an autofocus issue by the sounds of it, it's basically an alignment issue/setup issue, so the lens isn't square on, so the camera will autofocus but part of the frame is out of focus, use manual focus to get the other side in focus, and the other side is now out of focus, that is how CamcorderInfo described it. I had 3 digital cameras once with the same problem to various degrees, they all had, but with sightly different symptoms, had to send them back and go for something completely different in the end.

Is the camera made in Japan, or outsourced to somewhere else giving rise to quality issues?

My SD900 is perfect, I've looked for focusing issues and see none at all and the picture is crystal clear. No beeping and the focus action is smooth.

Could just be bad luck or bad handling at the shop or bad batch. That normally happens to me, usually I have to exchange things one or two times

Regards

Phil
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post #130 of 1325
3/18/11 at 12:35pm
Phil, guard that camera with your life!
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post #131 of 1325
3/18/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_L View Post

use manual focus to get the other side in focus, and the other side is now out of focus, that is how CamcorderInfo described it. Regards

Phil
I wouldnt really say that this is exactly how they described it. Rather:

the TM900 had difficulty providing a fully focused image when we used autofocus. The left side always appeared slightly blurred, while the right side was crisp. We could correct this issue with manual focus, but, even when we did that, both sides of the frame were never perfectly sharp.

This is clearly suggesting that both sides of the frame improved, as they said it corrected it, but that one side was not perfectly sharp. That is a bit different than saying that manual allows you to simply shift sides that are in focus. Truly unacceptable in a flagship model though. I am suprised to see cci say it was a minor difference when the difference was so apparent on the chart. I mean, the HS60 looks better in the 100% crop, and it is no where near as sharp in actual footage. There is a very clear difference when looking at video side by side, so if this crop implies anything about image detail and sharpness, it should be more significant than they suggest from their wording.
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post #132 of 1325
3/18/11 at 2:09pm
Ok got the TM900 and had to play with it plugged into the charger. Here is what I found so far.

Low light is awful even in a medium lit room. If I use manual it might be better but not on auto.

Regarding the EVF it does have a diopter adjustment on the bottom left of the VF. It's very tiny and blends in but it is there.

Beeping, we did hear 1 beep but could not get it to repeat. The beep is the same sort of beep you hear in the menu if you listen closely.

Fan is audible when the sound is cranked up, for me it's ok, at the moment.

SDHC card acts weird when in the PS3 does a sort of soft reboot. It did this with the Sony also.

HDMI cable that I bought gives so much feedback it sounds like I am in a bad sci-fi flick. Probably needs an adjustment. But makes a nice pass through other than that.

Off I go to play with it outside for a bit. Picture quality is really good, better than the Sony. A true outside test will show more, but through a window it's very good.

When the bit rate goes up it stutters and then the bit rate drops way down once it hits around 36Mbps it will drop down to 7-9Mbps and pretty much stay there.
It does this on the PS3 through the USB port direct from the flash card.
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post #133 of 1325
3/18/11 at 2:35pm
"Regarding the EVF it's useless for me. I wear glasses and with or without the glasses I can't see out of it with no adjustment. Bites!"


Do you read the threads other than your own? Do you read the manual?

There is a diopter adjustment for the EVF.

Pull out the evf, it is on the left.
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post #134 of 1325
3/18/11 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Just received my replacement 900 and I'm really kind of ticked off.

First off the beep is not as loud or as continuous with the new unit, but it IS still there. I've heard it in a few clips and it's the same rhythmic 'beep...beep...beep" but at a lower volume. I could almost live with this one.

However, the new one as additional issues.

Issue 1- In some scenes the lens is making what I would call an almost 'scraping' noise as it focuses. Granted I heard this in quiet environments, but this is not good regardless.

Issue 2 - This may or may not be related, but the new unit is without a doubt softer than the original unit. There is no 'pop' in the picture that is so characteristic of the 700/900. Now I haven't had any time to shoot outside since the battery is charging and I've got some other things I need to do, but some of the indoor videos are such that I would never have guessed they came from a 900 or 700. This could well be tied to the autofocus, but it may not be. Later on I'll test the unit in MF, but regardless, I need the autofocus to work.

So I am frustrated to say the least. I never had these issues with the 700 and given that 3 out of 4 units we know about here at AVS have had some issue or other (beeps, lens etc.), there appears to be a serious QC issue at Panasonic.

I will probably hold on to this until my Canon comes, but it certainly will not be the unit I keep. At the very best, I'd need to have this replaced once again.
gee what luck Ken. So are you hearing this beep if you simply playback in camera.....I mean playing back via camera, or even removing the card and playing back via your other equipment you also hear it ???
I better check mine really close before the 15 days are up. I haven't noticed anything thus far but ???????...............
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post #135 of 1325
3/18/11 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
"Regarding the EVF it's useless for me. I wear glasses and with or without the glasses I can't see out of it with no adjustment. Bites!"


Do you read the threads other than your own? Do you read the manual?

There is a diopter adjustment for the EVF.

Pull out the evf, it is on the left.

Actually things are pretty crazy here at the moment. I have had this for a short time trying to get some tests in.
I did not read a lot of the manual, will do that this evening.
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post #136 of 1325
3/18/11 at 3:21pm
And we are all waiting to hear about - beeps!
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post #137 of 1325
3/18/11 at 3:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinIce View Post

gee what luck Ken. So are you hearing this beep if you simply playback in camera??
I better check mine really close before the 15 days are up. I haven't noticed anything thus far but ???????...............

I would like to know a little more on the beeping also. Most all of my clips have kids playing or traffic noise. I'll check this out more tonight if I get some quite time.
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post #138 of 1325
3/18/11 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

And we are all waiting to hear about - beeps!


Not much in the way of beeps, heard it once or twice and I cannot repeat it on the video. I only have 20 mins of footage to deal with as I was testing out the PS3 and the SD card.
I will try more internal memory and see what happens.
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post #139 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

I would like to know a little more on the beeping also. Most all of my clips have kids playing or traffic noise. I'll check this out more tonight if I get some quite time.

same here...so much background noise. This is like the fan on the 700....now everyone starts checking in very quiet situations listening for a faint sound.

Both funny and sucko......
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post #140 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post


Beeping, we did hear 1 beep but could not get it to repeat. The beep is the same sort of beep you hear in the menu if you listen closely.

Fan is audible when the sound is cranked up, for me it's ok, at the moment.

Steve, the bad news is that you too have the beep and that's now 4 out of 5 cameras. I'm not sure if you've played the audio through your home theater receiver as I do, but when you do, you will hear it more clearly. The other thing is that if you've heard it once, you'll hear it again and it's volume will vary depending on where you are. You'll notice the rhythmic nature of it, but I wouldn't say it sounds anything like the beep when you press a button. It sounds almost exactly like a heart monitor you'd hear in a hospital: Beep...beep....beep....well you get the idea.

I see you're confirming what I noted about low light...pretty poor. I guess it was all Panasonic marketing hype.

On a brighter note, I spoke with another dealer who claims they are getting the HF-G10 in this Wednesday. We shall see, but I'm a bit dubious.
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post #141 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:51pm
Ken, this is a reply I just got from Canon when asked about the G10...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Canon Support - 2
Date: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Canon Information Request (KMM12239822V94598L0KM)
To: XXXXXXXXX


Dear Mr. X:

Thank you for your inquiry about the availability of the VIXIA HF G10.
We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

At this time, Canon USA is working closely with Canon, Inc. in Japan to
assess the situation. We should have more definitive information
regarding your inquiry in the near future and will retain your email
address to follow-up with you at that time.

Sincerely,

Xxxxxx
Contact Center Specialist

Original Message Follows:
-------------------------

There is an inquiry request for : Camcorders , High Definition
Camcorders, VIXIA HF G10

Contact Info provided is
Name : XXXXXX
Email Address : xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Phone :
User Question : Hi,

I understand that the current events in Japan may have delayed the
introduction of your Vixia HF G10 camcorder. I have patiently waited
for it, but without a reasonable date I will have to consider the Sony
or Panasonic offerings that are already currently available. Could you
shed light on the availability of the camcorder? It would at least give
me a target date for having it.

thank you,
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post #142 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinIce View Post

gee what luck Ken. So are you hearing this beep if you simply playback in camera.....I mean playing back via camera, or even removing the card and playing back via your other equipment you also hear it ???
I better check mine really close before the 15 days are up. I haven't noticed anything thus far but ???????...............

Yup. In-camera playback, card playback (stuttery) in my PS3 or card playback in my Panny BD player. It makes no difference, it's on the audio track so no matter how you play it back, you'll hear it. I always watch my footage on my plasma and the audio is sent through my Denon receiver, so everything gets magnified, the good and the bad.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a beep that's really loud, it's subtle, but loud enough that if your hearing is any good you can't miss it. In fact one clip I could actually hear it as it played back through the tiny speaker of the 900! Once you're attuned to what it is, you'll can't miss it.

With that said, the PQ issues on this unit bother me even more. The cam is simply not as sharp as the first one. The QC is really lousy.
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post #143 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

I would like to know a little more on the beeping also. Most all of my clips have kids playing or traffic noise. I'll check this out more tonight if I get some quite time.

The beeping may well get drowned out with the traffic noise. I was reviewing my clips from both cams before, and surprisingly I have one clip shot outside where I could still here the beeping. How nuts is that? Most clips with a significant amount of ambient noise will mask the beeps, but it's really concerning that if it could be heard in one clip shot outside, how many more will it show up in?

Just as a point of info on the infamous beeps, they have a repeating pattern of about 1 second or so.
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post #144 of 1325
3/18/11 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Ken, this is a reply I just got from Canon when asked about the G10...

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping the dealer I spoke to today is correct about next Wednesday, but I'm very skeptical.
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post #145 of 1325
3/18/11 at 5:35pm
Gee I'm wondering if there is a huge (QUALITY CONTROL) issue here or just a poor design in the hardware? these recent posts of late lead me to believe that the Panasonic TM900 is riddled with problems. I'm waiting to read about more disappointments on this one. Man its always been this way with (CONSUMER GRADE) Cam's though. Only 1 out of 10 consumer grade Cam's succeeds in not getting pulled apart and beat to a pulp before a tweaker buy's one? just wondering why kwow buddy is focusing on the best part of the Pana 900TM? I guess everybody is negative with the way the economy is?
I'm glad that money isn't a problem for me.

purplestinger
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post #146 of 1325
3/18/11 at 6:08pm
The beeping is a not an uncommon occurrence, evidently, usually traced to bad power supply. It happened to some of the pro cameras:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...nd-from-Camera

It's funny to read how the pros reacted.

In the 3D forum, something like half of the purchasers (2 out 4, small numbers like here) of the new JVC 3D camera found that the two lenses did not focus on the same plane (not a subtle difference). Maybe quality control is slipping everywhere.

Hey, now we can say that beeping is pro "feature"!
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post #147 of 1325
3/18/11 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Steve, the bad news is that you too have the beep and that's now 4 out of 5 cameras. I'm not sure if you've played the audio through your home theater receiver as I do, but when you do, you will hear it more clearly. The other thing is that if you've heard it once, you'll hear it again and it's volume will vary depending on where you are. You'll notice the rhythmic nature of it, but I wouldn't say it sounds anything like the beep when you press a button. It sounds almost exactly like a heart monitor you'd hear in a hospital: Beep...beep....beep....well you get the idea.

I see you're confirming what I noted about low light...pretty poor. I guess it was all Panasonic marketing hype.

On a brighter note, I spoke with another dealer who claims they are getting the HF-G10 in this Wednesday. We shall see, but I'm a bit dubious.


Hi Ken, I have heard the beep once or twice but I don't use a home theatre receiver. My regular TV is good enough. It's not rythemic or repeatable beep.
Maybe I need more time with it and after this weekend I will know for certain.

I get no shake at 45 degree angles and when pointed at the bright blue sky there was just the exact color of blue and even with zoomed in treetops waving a lot in the breeze it was still good.

Motion is an issue for the PS3 requiring you to stop and then restart takes a second and clears up the buffer.

Low light is not very good, but I want vibrancy of color during the day.

I think I'd go for the XA10 or the XF100 over the HF G10 personally.
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post #148 of 1325
3/18/11 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

With that said, the PQ issues on this unit bother me even more. The cam is simply not as sharp as the first one. The QC is really lousy.


Are you saying the TM700/750 is a better cam? It had 45 degree stutter and bondi blue skies.
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post #149 of 1325
3/18/11 at 6:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The beeping may well get drowned out with the traffic noise. I was reviewing my clips from both cams before, and surprisingly I have one clip shot outside where I could still here the beeping. How nuts is that? Most clips with a significant amount of ambient noise will mask the beeps, but it's really concerning that if it could be heard in one clip shot outside, how many more will it show up in?

Just as a point of info on the infamous beeps, they have a repeating pattern of about 1 second or so.

Ok I listened to a bunch of clips with a nice set of headphones pluged in to it. On one of my clips outside(edit this was taped from inside a mv poss feedback beep) I heard a long beep in the beginning with the volume turned up like a sound of the heart monitor flat lining. Another clip while taping my wife giving my son a bath I can clearly hear loud beeps. I just went into a quite master bedroom and no beeps but the fan is loud. What I'm wondering if there is a feedback issue with the 5 mics because the beeps were so much louder in a small echo type bathroom. Now what to do send it back or live with it. I was certain mine was problem free.
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post #150 of 1325
3/18/11 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The beeping is a not an uncommon occurrence, evidently, usually traced to bad power supply. It happened to some of the pro cameras:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...nd-from-Camera

It's funny to read how the pros reacted.

In the 3D forum, something like half of the purchasers (2 out 4, small numbers like here) of the new JVC 3D camera found that the two lenses did not focus on the same plane (not a subtle difference). Maybe quality control is slipping everywhere.

Hey, now we can say that beeping is pro "feature"!

Interesting. It looks like Panny has a lock on the beeping issue, even in its $15,000 cams! Small comfort though when your plagued with it. This is certainly a first for me with the many many HD cams I've had.

But now we know that at least JVC shares the misalignment issue with Panasonic, so Panny can't claim they are the sole owners of that one. Man, this is sad.

Canon, HELP!!!!
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