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The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 1325
5/4/11 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

You missed him saying how awful the TM900 was and that he's going to sell it on eBay. Maybe you could get it from him for a really good price? It's been barely used, kinda like someone who bought a brand new car and drove it home and parked it.

someone convince me not to get the accidental!
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post #482 of 1325
5/4/11 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Nah not me,
Actually I was reffering to more than just you and I with that statement although I'm more open minded than you are. I do not harp on one product over and over again. It's just for right now the Panasonic has features I like over the Sony. I am also buying a Canon HF G10 when they eventually become available. So I'm actually buying 2 camcorders and using them for 2 different purposes.

The fact that one has a better OIS for the stuff I film makes it a good fit for me. The fact that you don't film anything like that makes your take on it less relevant. Sow me some in car footage longer than 10 seconds at an autox or rallyx. I take totally different types of video than you do. So how you can compare when you don't even come close to doing the same sort of video?
Sure for the shots you do maybe it's all good but we have very different styles of shooting, different needs for equipment and film in very different ways, yet you tell me I am wrong.

"More open minded"? Uh huh.

The only reason I 'harp' on a product is that I'm constantly rebutting your assertions that I find erroneous. Just one post ago you told another poster how I said 'how awful the TM900 was'. Once again, another misquote. THIS is why I am constantly 'harping'. God only knows how much you misquote me in threads I don't venture in to. It really gets annoying Steve as I've brought this up to you on several occasions. You do yourself a disservice as IMO it detracts seriously from your credibility. If you can't make a point without seriously misquoting someone, then just don't make that point.

To set the record straight to others, I NEVER said the TM900 was 'awful'. Yes, I had problem with 2 of the 3 units I tried and they had some significant issues, but the 3rd is fine. It is NOT awful. If Steve can find the post where I said that, I will happily apologize, but he won't be able to since I never said it. Once again, the 3rd unit is fine. The only reason I'm not using it is that I found a different camcorder whose PQ I prefer. I used my TMV700 for a year and the 900 has the same PQ as the 700...how could I find it 'awful'?

And Steve, I did an OIS walking test on both cams in the Canon thread. You are welcome to look at it and see precisely why I've said what I've said about the effectiveness of both systems. When we first began this OIS argument (it seems like years ago), you harped and harped and harped on walking videos. Once I showed that there was no difference between the Canon & the Panasonic in the OIS for that purpose, you suddenly switched gears from walking videos to in-car rally videos. Whatever Steve, whatever. This is just tiring and totally non-productive. But once again I will ask you please do not misquote me.
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post #483 of 1325
5/4/11 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

"More open minded"? Uh huh.

The only reason I 'harp' on a product is that I'm constantly rebutting your assertions that I find erroneous. Just one post ago you told another poster how I said 'how awful the TM900 was'. Once again, another misquote. THIS is why I am constantly 'harping'. God only knows how much you misquote me in threads I don't venture in to. It really gets annoying Steve as I've brought this up to you on several occasions. You do yourself a disservice as IMO it detracts seriously from your credibility. If you can't make a point without seriously misquoting someone, then just don't make that point.

To set the record straight to others, I NEVER said the TM900 was 'awful'. Yes, I had problem with 2 of the 3 units I tried and they had some significant issues, but the 3rd is fine. It is NOT awful. If Steve can find the post where I said that, I will happily apologize, but he won't be able to since I never said it. Once again, the 3rd unit is fine. The only reason I'm not using it is that I found a different camcorder whose PQ I prefer. I used my TMV700 for a year and the 900 has the same PQ as the 700...how could I find it 'awful'?

And Steve, I did an OIS walking test on both cams in the Canon thread. You are welcome to look at it and see precisely why I've said what I've said about the effectiveness of both systems. When we first began this OIS argument (it seems like years ago), you harped and harped and harped on walking videos. Once I showed that there was no difference between the Canon & the Panasonic in the OIS for that purpose, you suddenly switched gears from walking videos to in-car rally videos. Whatever Steve, whatever. This is just tiring and totally non-productive. But once again I will ask you please do not misquote me.

cant we all just get along?

each of us have different viewpoints on what can be seen or heardd and what cannot be.

to a degree, most of these things a subjective. i for one, avoid sony unless there is a compelling reason or feature.

i might just end up going w. the ext. warranty. need to read the details.. but with an infant/child in the equation, it might payout (though i am doubtfult).
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post #484 of 1325
5/4/11 at 3:02pm
You might as well put that money away towards your new camcorder. By the time it breaks, technology will have changed and you will be ready to get a new cam, and you will have some savings toward it.
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post #485 of 1325
5/4/11 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

You might as well put that money away towards your new camcorder. By the time it breaks, technology will have changed and you will be ready to get a new cam, and you will have some savings toward it.

Agreed. Only 12% of the money collected for extended warranties is ever paid out to the consumer. Since extended warranties are a type of insurance, you should only insure yourself to the degree that you cannot cover the loss yourself. Otherwise, all you are doing is making the seller of the insurance and the insurance company richer to your detriment. Consumer Reports indicates that failures normally occur within the manufactuer's warranty period and seldom recommends extended warranties as being a good investment.
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post #486 of 1325
5/4/11 at 4:59pm
Well my TM900 came in today and is charging right now. I hope to be able to test it out later tonight and at least check to see if everything is ok with it.
I keep forgetting that it only has one SD card slot.
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post #487 of 1325
5/4/11 at 5:11pm
"I keep forgetting that it only has one SD card slot."

Yes, but it has internal memory (32GB?) and, most importantly, 'relay recording' so that if you run out of internal memory *while recording* it will automatically shift to the sd card without losing a single frame. So with one 32GB ($50) card, you effectively have one continuous 64GB drive.
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post #488 of 1325
5/4/11 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"I keep forgetting that it only has one SD card slot."

Yes, but it has internal memory (32GB?) and, most importantly, 'relay recording' so that if you run out of internal memory *while recording* it will automatically shift to the sd card without losing a single frame. So with one 32GB ($50) card, you effectively have one continuous 64GB drive.


Yep but I dislike using internal memory I'd rather save the money and buy more flash cards. Nothing wrong with internal memory as a backup but I just prefer popping out cards andputting in new ones, also easier to transfer files. But that's me, I'm sure most people love a lot of internal memory as it's virtually impossible to misplace it.
Flash cards are comparitively easy to lose, or if you're like my wife, break.
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post #489 of 1325
5/4/11 at 9:00pm
Got the new TM900 today the fan is loud enough to hear while using it in a quiet room. The last one made no noise, this one is really loud. If there is normal room noise you can't really hear it. When it's quiet it's very audible.
So back it goes. No way is it not defective but I'm really getting ticked off at the QC issues the new camcorders are having.
This camera also has a worse OIS than my last one it does tend to grab a lot more even with OIS lock turned off. My guess is this is what Ken's TM900 is doing. However this TM900 is much bettter in low light than my last one by quite a lot! Go figure.
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post #490 of 1325
5/4/11 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Got the new TM900 today the fan is loud enough to hear while using it in a quiet room. The last one made no noise, this one is really loud. If there is normal room noise you can't really hear it. When it's quiet it's very audible.
So back it goes. No way is it not defective but I'm really getting ticked off at the QC issues the new camcorders are having.
This camera also has a worse OIS than my last one it does tend to grab a lot more even with OIS lock turned off. My guess is this is what Ken's TM900 is doing. However this TM900 is much bettter in low light than my last one by quite a lot! Go figure.

Well sounds like QC issues are still plaguing Panasonic as well as Canon. The Fan noise issue is what has stopped me from ordering because a buddy of mine has one and I thought the fan on it was very loud. Looks like I will be sticking with my Nikon D7000 for low light shots and buy there shotgun mic.
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post #491 of 1325
5/4/11 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Got the new TM900 today the fan is loud enough to hear while using it in a quiet room. The last one made no noise, this one is really loud. If there is normal room noise you can't really hear it. When it's quiet it's very audible.
So back it goes. No way is it not defective but I'm really getting ticked off at the QC issues the new camcorders are having.
This camera also has a worse OIS than my last one it does tend to grab a lot more even with OIS lock turned off. My guess is this is what Ken's TM900 is doing. However this TM900 is much bettter in low light than my last one by quite a lot! Go figure.

My Tm700 was always audible in a very quiet room...

As for the low light, just how much better is it? Is it still very much below the canon or not?
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post #492 of 1325
5/4/11 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Well sounds like QC issues are still plaguing Panasonic as well as Canon. The Fan noise issue is what has stopped me from ordering because a buddy of mine has one and I thought the fan on it was very loud. Looks like I will be sticking with my Nikon D7000 for low light shots and buy there shotgun mic.

Well my last TM900 did not have a fan that you could hear even if you pressed it against your ear. This one is a lot louder and a real issue, sadly.
I'm trying to be postive about it but I'm really ticked off as I haave to eat the return shipping. They might refund it who knows


Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Huntley View Post

My Tm700 was always audible in a very quiet room...

As for the low light, just how much better is it? Is it still very much below the canon or not?


Since my previous TM900 was so awful in low light that is what I am comparing it to. This TM900 is more on par with the ones reviewed on CCI and other websites.
It's isn't even close to the Canon i'll rate it like this.
For Low Light
Canon HF G10 = 5 Stars
Sony CX560 = 4 Stars
Panasonic TM900 = 3 Stars

My old one was at best a 1 Star
I guess i can post a video of it's low light in my den.
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post #493 of 1325
5/4/11 at 10:26pm
Ok for those who want to see back to back low light test with the settings listed I put these up on YouTube.
This is panning on books, up to the light then down then to the opposite side of the room where there is about half the light.
I did it at Full Auto. 9dB of gain and 12dB of gain.
setting are listed on YouTube.
I know the videos are boring, "it's just a room with books."
But it does show the low light pretty well and from bright to dim.
Hopefully it helps.

Full Auto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_oc30P14uU

9dB Gain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk94TmY3cok

12db Gain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLU4sSZ2jgU
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post #494 of 1325
5/5/11 at 3:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Huntley View Post


My Tm700 was always audible in a very quiet room...

My current 900 probably has the loudest fan of the 3 I had. But the problems t had with the other 2, very uneven focus across the FOV in one and loud beeping in the other, made me pretty happy to have the 3rd with only the fan noise. My 700's fan could only be heard in a very quiet room.
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post #495 of 1325
5/5/11 at 6:23am
I didn't notice much grain at 12db... what does it look like on a tv?
Thanks for posting the clips btw
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post #496 of 1325
5/5/11 at 8:46am
Many times the TV brings out more detail and hence more grain than shows up on a computer monitor. But if you look at the OIS video I posted in the Canon thread, you can even see a fair amount of noise in the 900 footage in a room where the light was not bright, but not what I'd call really low light.
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post #497 of 1325
5/5/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by armedmetallica View Post

Thanks for the reply Steve... I too shy away from extended warranties.

I'm getting the camera at $825 for the tm900 or $1050 for the hs900, through Panasonic Direct.

The warranty is the Panasonic one:
169369 3 years of coverage includes protection against drops and spills that helps assure top product performance from your date of purchase. $169.99

so concensus (just steve and me for now) is forgo the ext. warranty?

BTW, i'm trying to catch it but unable to figure out how to get such low price $825 at Panasonic Direct. I see only $1099 price.
I appreciate if somebody put me on the right way. Thanks a lot!
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post #498 of 1325
5/5/11 at 9:29am
It's most likely the Employee Purchase program or better known as EPP. If you work for a company that gets discounts from Panasonic, you can also get the discount.

A lot of people who don't have EPP with Panasonic have either been signing up their small companies, having people they know buy the stuff for them or have been pretending to work for certain companies. I would not be surprised if Panasonic were to start to investigating to make sure their program isn't being abused one day if they haven't already. Still, that might be too much for Panasonic to be involved in.
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post #499 of 1325
5/5/11 at 9:41am
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Well my last TM900 did not have a fan that you could hear even if you pressed it against your ear. This one is a lot louder and a real issue, sadly.
I'm trying to be postive about it but I'm really ticked off as I haave to eat the return shipping. They might refund it who knows

Perhaps the fan was faulty on that one? It will certainly be heard if you put your ear to it when it is running.

Also the fan is thermostatically controlled, so varies in it's audibility. I've made a nifty baffle for it that stops it being a noise problem at all.

Regards

Phil
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post #500 of 1325
5/5/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

It's most likely the Employee Purchase program or better known as EPP. If you work for a company that gets discounts from Panasonic, you can also get the discount.

A lot of people who don't have EPP with Panasonic have either been signing up their small companies, having people they know buy the stuff for them or have been pretending to work for certain companies. I would not be surprised if Panasonic were to start to investigating to make sure their program isn't being abused one day if they haven't already. Still, that might be too much for Panasonic to be involved in.


I recently purchased the TM 90 (didn't have the budget for the 900). There is another discount besides the EPP. If you "like" Panasonic on Facebook you get access to their special FB Fan store. It is the regular store with much cheaper prices. It knocked the TM-90 price from $599 to $510. I don't remember if the 900 was in the special store, but it is worth checking if you are shopping around.
For me, using the FB store was helpful...but it got better. At checkout I added the three year warranty for $70(which was strangely the same price as the two year), when I did that it suddenly dropped the price of the camera to $450. It indicated that it was the EPP price, but it gave it to me. So I basically got the ext warranty for $10. I'm not saying taking the same steps will yield the same results for you, but it worked for me.
I'd be proud of myself except two weeks later the camera hasn't shipped and they are saying it is on backorder. But that seems to be a problem with most electronics right now.
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post #501 of 1325
5/5/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Huntley View Post

I didn't notice much grain at 12db... what does it look like on a tv?
Thanks for posting the clips btw


It's not bad and the reason I posted them was because my previous TM900 was significantly worse although I have no idea why. I only view them on the TV and it's not bad, not great like the Canon but far better than my last TM900.

These were filmed within minutes of each other and the settings are posted on YouTube. It's too bad I didn't save at least one clip from the last TM900 because it was night and day difference.
You're welcome
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post #502 of 1325
5/5/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_L View Post

Hi



Perhaps the fan was faulty on that one? It will certainly be heard if you put your ear to it when it is running.

Also the fan is thermostatically controlled, so varies in it's audibility. I've made a nifty baffle for it that stops it being a noise problem at all.

Regards

Phil


This one is consistantly loud, you can hear it while operating the camcorder normally. My wife even heard it without being asked. It most likely is a faulty fan. My last TM900 had beeping but the fan was very silent.
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post #503 of 1325
5/5/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

You might as well put that money away towards your new camcorder. By the time it breaks, technology will have changed and you will be ready to get a new cam, and you will have some savings toward it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethelredelder View Post

Agreed. Only 12% of the money collected for extended warranties is ever paid out to the consumer. Since extended warranties are a type of insurance, you should only insure yourself to the degree that you cannot cover the loss yourself. Otherwise, all you are doing is making the seller of the insurance and the insurance company richer to your detriment. Consumer Reports indicates that failures normally occur within the manufactuer's warranty period and seldom recommends extended warranties as being a good investment.

ty - pushed me over to NOT buy ext. warranty. placed order yesterday, no change in order status yet. Now, officially nervous "ships in 1 to 3 days" tick tock
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post #504 of 1325
5/5/11 at 6:14pm
My TM 90 order said "ships in 1 to 3 days" too. That was two weeks ago and it still hasn't left the warehouse. Hopefully you will have better luck with the 900.
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post #505 of 1325
5/5/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwanamaker View Post

My TM 90 order said "ships in 1 to 3 days" too. That was two weeks ago and it still hasn't left the warehouse. Hopefully you will have better luck with the 900.

looks like i do - i have an invoice printed, but no real tracking information yet from UPS...
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post #506 of 1325
5/7/11 at 11:05pm
just picked one up today.
Kinda bummed out it doesn't have external charger..
even if I get spare battery, I can't charge spare battery while using the cam...
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post #507 of 1325
5/8/11 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by importpsycho View Post

just picked one up today.
Kinda bummed out it doesn't have external charger..
even if I get spare battery, I can't charge spare battery while using the cam...


This is the way it is with all of the newer camcorders. My TM900 doesn't have an external charger either. This saves the company $2 and makes you buy a $60 charger seperately.
They sell the external charger at B&H Photo
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes

They don't give away the batteries either at $170 a piece!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tery_Pack.html
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post #508 of 1325
5/8/11 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by importpsycho View Post

just picked one up today.
Kinda bummed out it doesn't have external charger..
even if I get spare battery, I can't charge spare battery while using the cam...

If you are shopping for a Pansonic Camcorder consider the HDC-SD750PP.

With the Panasonic website as a source, it appears to have all the features of the TM900, yet it comes with more stuff.

It comes with a charger, a DC power cord, HDMI cord, composite cord, USB cable, AV multi cable, lens hood, shoe adapter and battery pack.

It also comes with the funny looking 3D lens and a removable "3D" sticker that seems to have caused the price to be lowered to get them to sell.

You do have to buy a memory card. And, I bought an extra Panasonic brand battery for $35.
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post #509 of 1325
5/8/11 at 3:20pm
I'm posting some OIS tests that I've done with the TM900 comparing directly to the Canon HF G10 that I had. I went to the same pond and tried to take the same shot. Sadly the video is 3MB too big for Vimeo and I didn't want to edit it. I wanted a true Raw file. I also used full auto and the stop sign doesn't look red because of the position of the sun. I should have used backlight compensation.


I also did a test where I walked up a fairly steep very rocky hill.
Sadly the Hybrid OIS lock was on on for that one because of an earlier shot of a long zoom on some flowers and I forgot to shut it off again and on the Panny you don't want to do that when walking with it.

The TM900 really looks good and a lot of detail, but after using this one which is going back due to a noisy fan. I'd have to say the 2 are very close and the manual controls on the HF G10 will help get a shot that the Panny might miss.

My wife really likes the TM900 because it literally is point and shoot when outdoors. Full auto mode is very good although when the camera first turns on the AWB can really be off and it won't show on the LCD. We have some very blue footage in car until the AWB sorts itself out a minute later.

The TM900's 60fps is really good if you go frame by frame you have more frames at 60fps versus 60i so you can see a bit more blur with the Canon but that is only when you go frame by frame not just watching it normally.

Anyway here is the clip of the Pond from both cameras. Remember the OIS in the Canon was broken.

The Canon HF G10 at the Pond
http://vimeo.com/22529938

The Panasonic TM900 at the Pond
(yes I know it's a bit jerky but I didn't want to get run over)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_aG3D4ftjY


Panasonic TM900 - OIS Test - Walking up a Rocky Hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni--j_Etres
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post #510 of 1325
5/8/11 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

The TM900's 60fps is really good if you go frame by frame you have more frames at 60fps versus 60i so you can see a bit more blur with the Canon but that is only when you go frame by frame not just watching it normally.

Don't tell that to tha Canon HF G10 owners that can't return their camcorder.

Buy camcorder that records 1080 60p!!!
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