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The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread - Page 31

post #901 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by imnez1 View Post

The warranty department, after checking my serial number indicated that this unit was current with the latest manufacturing standards and had any modifications that were implied. So, I am happy and am charging up the unit now. He said I was given wrong information about the two characters prior to the "1" in the serial number. I have spoken to four or five reps at Panasonic and have been given good and contradictory and wrong information. But what's a mother to do these days? - support, for the most part, has become a Laural and Hardy farce.

So, did you get any clues (not rumors) how to check if it is latest model or not? I have just got mine from simplyelectronics and I'm curious.
post #902 of 1366
Why can't you copy the .m2ts, .cont, .pmpd, .tmb files to the card in the folder where the camera puts it?

You'll need a pretty fast network to stream 1080/60p over it. 30 - 40 Mbps is almost half the theoretical thuput of 100 Mbps network at my home (I plan to get gigabit switches and router at some point).
post #903 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Why can't you copy the .m2ts, .cont, .pmpd, .tmb files to the card in the folder where the camera puts it?

You'll need a pretty fast network to stream 1080/60p over it. 30 - 40 Mbps is almost half the theoretical thuput of 100 Mbps network at my home (I plan to get gigabit switches and router at some point).


Because it makes a small file telling the camera what it did. i dont worry about it. I want it off the camcorder anyway. Use HD Writer and move the file, edit it if you want then do what you want with it but you can't put it back in the camcorder.
post #904 of 1366
No problem at all with streaming .mts 1080/50p (PAL) material from my Qnap 809 pro to my NMTs (with gigabit switches) but NMT have 100 Mbps card.
post #905 of 1366
Do I need to keep these together with the .m2ts files when I copy the files to my PC or thumb drives or NAS etc?

Basically, are these .cont, .pmpd, .tmb files something that Panasonic uses for it's own purposes? or should these stay with the .m2ts files?
post #906 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Do I need to keep these together with the .m2ts files when I copy the files to my PC or thumb drives or NAS etc?

Basically, are these .cont, .pmpd, .tmb files something that Panasonic uses for it's own purposes? or should these stay with the .m2ts files?


Panasonics software will do all that for you.

If you manually move the files all you need are the MTS/M2TS files.
post #907 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

That drop in the Kbps is your crash only it usually doesn't recover. You have to pause the video or stop it. If you keep watching it at 7-9 Kbps which is generally what mine drops to you will see your choppy video. That fast drop in the bitrate IS the crash which requires a stop or a pause.

So your PS3 is in fact doing the same as all of ours and you lose that buttery smooth video as a result.

Keep watching you video after the bitrate drops and you will see how poor it looks. Then if you still need it I can post my file.
But we have established that your PS3 does in fact crash.

Yes I agree, if your seeing bitrates in the single digits there is a problem. Your just not looking closely enough to notice that the video is not buttery smooth. I don't think I've seen my bitrates go below 17Mbps on a TM900 file, and like Steve states sometimes in the 40Mbps range.

Anywhoo, I thought I would give HD Writer a try. I ended up installing it on my dual core laptop for now. It's definitely one of the better pre-packaged software's that I have used. You can divide, combine, and trim files, add transitions and effects also. You can even add your own music. What company let's you do that with software included with their camcorder? I know of none.

I was out in the Pennsylvania woods hiking this past weekend and shot some footage of a flock of wild turkeys I came upon. These turkeys weren't scared of me and let me get pretty darn close. There must have been 10 or 12 of them huddling under some pine trees.

They started slowly walking away when I arrived, but I still got some decent footage. I edited this short clip with HD writer to see what it could do. I'm pleasantly surprised by it so far. Certainly good enough for simple family stuff. I trimmed, added transitions, made a title, and threw in a little music for ha-ha's. The file is 1080/60p native (another one for you Paulo), and the raw file can be downloaded for one week if anyone wishes to.

http://vimeo.com/33995992
post #908 of 1366
Very nice video. You used auto iris sometimes? Still some blown highlights and washed out parts - the thing is overexposing in auto iris. Zebra to get rid of stripes, manual iris. I know that is a little hard to do when you come across something unexpected and there is both shade and sun.

I also was pleasantly surprised by HD Writer.

How long did it take to render your video with transitions and music track? Without transitions, a merged file is created lickety-split because there is no re-encoding. But transitions require encoding. The issue is whether rendering is smart - so that the non-transition parts are still not re-encoded. It is easy to tell by just how fast the process goes - if everything is re-encoded then very slow.

One thing you might try. Now you have a 108060p edited merged file. Will PMB take it in and then make an AVCHD 2.0 blu ray from the one file? Basically, you merged the clips in HD Writer so PMB does not have to do that (which it would not). But it might write the finished clip from HD Writer if the file is still compliant.

I would try this, but I am traveling, and determined it was optimal not to bring a bluray writer!
post #909 of 1366
I'm glad you posted Mark. I was in manual mode and was not too happy with the results. Most of the clips were all over the place as far as exposure and wb,..etc. I had zebra engaged and I saw no stripes anywhere except in the sky, which is normal. I was using the LCD though and maybe I should have been using the viewfinder in that situation to judge for better results?

I had all settings on auto with 1/60th shutter. I would have used iris but saw nothing to indicate to do so. The conditions as you see where not ideal at all, very tough conditions. Did you notice in the one clip that the WB or something changed in the middle of the clip? I thought it might have been the sun coming thru the tree's all of a sudden. I'm not sure, but I don't think it was the sun. Any more suggestions? Do you think my particular cam might be defective?

I haven't installed PMB on any of my computers yet. I really haven't had a reason to. But since the new AVCHD 2.0 spec has come out I'm looking forward to giving your thought a try. I wll install PMB asap and let you know the results.

It took my dual core machine about 12 minutes to output that whole video project.
post #910 of 1366
Yes, they were the very worst conditions: when the subject moves between bright sun and shade. Not only is the light changing level (shade and sun) - which requires adjusting the iris - but the light is a different color - shade is bluer than sunlight - which requires adjusting wb.

If you set iris manually, and the light changes, then you could get overexposure or underexposure. Auto iris does fine here (light changes), and fixed iris is an issue. I have found the wb to not adjust quickly when the sun goes behind a cloud or the subject moves to the shade from the sun. It's a deficiency, but all cameras have trouble changing wb. Interestingly the little Samsung W200 has the best auto wb I have ever seen - quick and accurate.

So I try to avoid changes from shade to sunlight in a shot (or, equivalenly, when the sun goes behind a cloud, which has runied many of my clips, which of course I never display). In your turkey shoot, you could not direct the subjects, so you experienced the shifts in intensity and color from their movements.

Movie directors have it so much easier - every shot is set up in advance, which is why they can use cumbersome DSLRs with no zooms! Though they sometimes still produce turkeys.

The 12 minutes suggests smart rendering. Excellent. Vegas Pro would take an hour or more, re-rendering everything.
post #911 of 1366
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm asking for too much in those very difficult shooting conditions. As far as the rendering, HD Writer works strangely. When I 1st rendered without music, it stated it would take an hour at 1st, then quickly settled down to under 1o minutes.

When I added the music it stated 4 hours at 1st then kept adjusting throughout, until it finished in 12 minutes or so. It seems to work in chunks. It could state 2% done so far after 3 minutes, then jump to 25% done 1 minute later.

edit..btw, do you have a link to video you shot with the w200 using the cam's stabilization. I watched your 1st posted video the other night again, and I was impressed except for the shake. I don't want to de-rail this thread, but just thought I would ask if you have one with stabilization used?
post #912 of 1366
The estimate is a projection based on the work it is doing - when that work changes - it hits a transition, which requires encoding - it then assumes the whole will take longer, then it hits a part that does not need rendering so it shortens the estimate, etc.

What counts as you know is that it is not re-rendering the parts it does not need to and it produces great quality quickly.

One other neat thing - if you need to make a 108060i video at lower bitrate from the high bitrate 108060p video to conform to (old) bluray standards, the software can make use of the hardware decoder built in the camera to do the conversion much more quickly - you attach the camcorder to do this (I do not remember the rest of the details).

It is amazing software, and free (for us Panasonic owners).
post #913 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The estimate is a projection based on the work it is doing - when that work changes - it hits a transition, which requires encoding - it then assumes the whole will take longer, then it hits a part that does not need rendering so it shortens the estimate, etc.

What counts as you know is that it is not re-rendering the parts it does not need to and it produces great quality quickly.

One other neat thing - if you need to make a 108060i video at lower bitrate from the high bitrate 108060p video to conform to (old) bluray standards, the software can make use of the hardware decoder built in the camera to do the conversion much more quickly - you attach the camcorder to do this (I do not remember the rest of the detals).

It is amazing software, and free (for us Panasonic owners).

Yep, I agree. I did see the conversion assist in the owners manual by connecting the cam to the computer. Good stuff!
post #914 of 1366
One can get portable hard drives (USB) that can be used while traveling to offload files from cameras etc.

Is there any way to copy files from the TM900 to an external hard drive without using a PC?
post #915 of 1366
What's this PMB software? Is it worth purchasing?
post #916 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

One can get portable hard drives (USB) that can be used while traveling to offload files from cameras etc.

Is there any way to copy files from the TM900 to an external hard drive without using a PC?

I don't think you can copy to an external HD just using the cam. I don't see anything in the menus to allow that. The only way to offload would be to the internal sd card slot.
post #917 of 1366
PMB is the free software you get with Sony camcorders and cameras. It is not available for sale, just like HD Writer. To have both, you need to have both a Panasonic and Sony camera/camcorder.

What is curious is that in both cases the free software has more capabilities than Pro software - Sony PMB can make AVCHD 2.0 blurays, and Sony Vegas Pro cannot. HD Writer can smart render, and almost no expensive editing software can do that with 108060p video files, includig Vegas Pro.

What we are trying to figure out is we can combine the unique features of both free software programs to do even more.
post #918 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

I don't think you can copy to an external HD just using the cam. I don't see anything in the menus to allow that. The only way to offload would be to the internal sd card slot.

That would be a way, I suppose. There are products like

Flashpoint 500GB Portable Picture & Data Storage Hard Drive with USB Interface & Memory Card Reader
PicPac II 11-in-1 High Speed Memory Card Reader and 250 GB Storage Device 7625
Digital Foci Photo Safe II PST-251 500 GB Digital Picture Storage

but i'm not sure that they can handle SDXC cards and will copy all the video files off the SD cards. These were mostly for users of digital SLR's.

Anyone tried these portable storage devices with HD camera cards?
post #919 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

One can get portable hard drives (USB) that can be used while traveling to offload files from cameras etc.

Is there any way to copy files from the TM900 to an external hard drive without using a PC?

You would need to get an external drive that can act as a USB host (taking the place of a PC). Most regular drives cannot, but there are some specialized drives for offloading photos that might work.
post #920 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

One can get portable hard drives (USB) that can be used while traveling to offload files from cameras etc.

Is there any way to copy files from the TM900 to an external hard drive without using a PC?

Oops, I did not read your post carefully. Yes, the drives you mentioned for offloading photos would probably work. I used to have one, you could select which directory on the camera to copy from, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for video files. The only caveat is that most are probably formatted from the factory using FAT32, so you would run into the 4GB file limit. Hopefully with these you could reformat the drive to use NTFS or exFAT.
post #921 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald-gt View Post

Oops, I did not read your post carefully. Yes, the drives you mentioned for offloading photos would probably work. I used to have one, you could select which directory on the camera to copy from, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for video files. The only caveat is that most are probably formatted from the factory using FAT32, so you would run into the 4GB file limit. Hopefully with these you could reformat the drive to use NTFS or exFAT.


The TM900 makes a 4GB max file size. You can combine it after you transfer it but 4GB is it. I believe my Canon only allows 2GB files but it might be 4GB as well.
post #922 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post


The TM900 makes a 4GB max file size. You can combine it after you transfer it but 4GB is it. I believe my Canon only allows 2GB files but it might be 4GB as well.

Thanks Steve, I did not know that (I'm still waiting for my M41 to arrive).
post #923 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

What we are trying to figure out is we can combine the unique features of both free software programs to do even more.

It doesn't look like PMB accepts the TM900 combined file Mark. I installed PMB and it's not recognizing the combined file. It see's the individual files and will play them fine, like you stated earlier. For some reason PMB is reporting the TM900's 1080/60p files as 1080i. Do you remember if your version of PMB reported the same thing?
post #924 of 1366
PMB reports the original TM900 clips, in properties (right click), as 60p.

PMB also reports the combined, edited file I made in HD Writer as 60p. It did not object when I started the wizard to take the edited file to make an AVCHD disc, but because I do not have a writer the process stopped.
post #925 of 1366
I used HD Writer AE 3.0 to make a video from TM900 clips, this time inserting transitions and adding a title and music track to see how fast the process is and how quality is affected.

The 3:51 minute video took 24 minutes to render. This is very fast, and means there was smart rendering - only those parts needing re-rendering were re-rendered (transitions, titles, fades, adding music).

I normallly do not add music, as I am interested in the natural sounds, and it is hard work to coordinate music and video for the music to be effective. Here I kept the music low as an experiment, leaving the natural sounds (bird songs) prominent. The music was recorded by me (original instrument ensemble).

The 108060p video (which makes use of the iZoom feature a lot) is at

http://vimeo.com/34102767
post #926 of 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

PMB reports the original TM900 clips, in properties (right click), as 60p.

PMB also reports the combined, edited file I made in HD Writer as 60p. It did not object when I started the wizard to take the edited file to make an AVCHD disc, but becasue I do not have a writer the process stopped.

Ok, thanks. I'm working with PMB 5.3. I think I have to download the new 5.8 version that creates BD's to see file properties consistent with yours. If I right click on a TM900 1080/60p file it reports 1080/60i..weird.

I'll tell you, PMB was a pain to install. It won't recognize video files stored on my computer that were created with the WX5. You have to connect the WX5 and register it with PMB before PMB recognizes the files.
post #927 of 1366
Yes, the upgrade is critical (and much easier to do than the initial install). The upgrade gives the capability to make AVCHD 2.0 discs and deal correctly with 108060p files.
post #928 of 1366
Ok thanks Mark. I'll upgrade it asap. I'm going away for the holidays tomorrow, so I won't be able to mess with it till next week. btw, nice video. The music recorded by you sounds very clear and detailed.
post #929 of 1366
With HD writer 3.0, I believe you can fade music in the beginning of your video, and at the end also. Makes things a little easier if you use music you can't quite fit into your video.
post #930 of 1366
Yes, you can fade the music, loop and also choose which part of your music to include. I used the music fade out at the end of the video.
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